| This thread contains spoilers, make sure to complete the anime first! EDIT: I made this post in August 2021 after watching the anime, and now I've edited it after reading the novel (April 2022) / I believe Haiji and Kakeru were in love with each other. In this thread I will go over the 4 reasons why I believe that. I actually put a lot of effort to make it as objective as possible. The reasons are:
THE ORIGINAL NOVEL Run with the Wind is based on a novel released in 2006, Kaze ga Tsuyoku Fuiteiru ("The Wind is Blowing Strongly"). The author, Shion Miura, is very successful and has put out various acclaimed works. On the same year she published this novel, she also published a collection of essays where she talked about the yaoi genre (Japanese Boys' Love with sexual content). The collection is titled "It's Not Just a Hobby", and there she explained that she had worked on this novel since 2001 (5 years before its official publication). She had originally written Kakeru and Haiji as a gay couple in a sexual relationship, and this was changed for the official 2006 publication. Sports novels that are also gay/Boys' Love don't exist in Japan, they have never made it into print even once, so that probably had a lot to do with this, because the industry simply does not want to mix these two genres. Likewise, sports/BL manga are very rare, short-lived, and there has never been one where the sport is more important than the BL, like it would have been the case with this story had it been published as it was originally written. TSUKI GA KIREI The phrase "Tsuki ga Kirei Desu ne" (月が綺麗ですね - translated "The Moon is Beautiful, Isn't it?") is a Japanese metaphor which means "I love you". There's a popular anime based on this, Tsuki ga Kirei. The phrase was coined by the famous novelist and teacher Natsume Sōseki (1867-1912), when he explained it during one of his lectures. Sōseki believed that two people in love do not need direct words to convey their feelings. Asking "tsuki ga kirei desu ne?" is a wordplay, because in Japanese, "tsuki" (moon) and "suki" (to like something or to like someone) sound very similar.   In episode 13 during their stay at the cabin, Kakeru was thinking in the balcony at night and Haiji came out with 2 cups of warm milk to keep him company. After their serious conversation was over, Hana comes out to greet them. Haiji wraps an arm around Kakeru and says: "By the way, Kakeru, do you have a girlfriend?". Kakeru gets flustered and answers: "O-Of course I don't! Where did that come from?!" Haiji answers: "夜空が余り綺麗なものだから", shown in the image above, but a better translation is "Because the night sky is so beautiful". Hana freaks out joyfully asking Haiji what he meant, while Kakeru remains blushed and confused. This was a "tsuki ga kirei" reference. Keep in mind that there is no rule saying you actually have to use the word "moon" (tsuki), because this is just a romantic reference used mainly in literature/fiction (not in real life). There's no protocol, so saying night sky (yozora) or even stars (hoshi) will get the same point across, "I love you". The reason why Haiji knows this nerdy reference is because he's a Literature student. Further proof that this was a "tsuki ga kirei" reference is found in the next episode (14). While Musa and Kakeru were in the bathtub at night, Musa begins to talk about how he discovered Hana liked one of the twins, but he's cryptic about this, so Kakeru doesn't understand what he means. At the end of the conversation, Musa says he "caught the moon", meaning "he discovered Hana likes someone".   KAKERU IS IN LOVE Having explained the two previous points, here's where things get interesting. Right before Kakeru's turn to run in Hakone, Haiji calls him. The conversation ends with Haiji saying: "To me, you are the greatest runner. Become stronger, Kakeru". Moments later Kakeru moves towards the track and says to one of the twins: "What does it feel like to fall in love? I'm in love, too". The twin freaks out and begins to ask him what he meant, but Kakeru takes off. The logical interpretation is that Kakeru is in love with running, right? Because his earlier conversation with Haiji was about improving as a runner. However, the writer of the anime did something very curious, because in the novel, this is not how things happen at all. In the novel, Kakeru actually likes Hana (the twins like her too), so Kakeru confesses to Jouji, "I like Hana too". In the anime, Kakeru's crush on Hana was completely erased. Then they made Kakeru say he's in love after his heartfelt conversation with Haiji. So is the writer of the anime trying to say that Kakeru is in love with running, or that he is in love with Haiji? Well, when Haiji is about to finish the race, Kakeru is on the other side of the finish line looking at him with tears in his eyes, thinking: "You asked me once what running is. You said you wanted to know what it is. The answer is you. It's you". So that's the answer. Because in the novel, Kakeru says "I don't know. I don't know the answer". In the epilogue of the novel Kakeru says he will forever look for an answer to that question, but in the anime the answer is Haiji. For the Kakeru in the anime, being in love with running and being in love with Haiji are the exact same thing, because to anime Kakeru, Haiji is the meaning of running. The director and writer of the anime changed two major ending dialogues in order to very obviously insinuate that Kakeru is in love with Haiji, just like he was in the original version of the novel.  THE SHOOTING STAR Haiji explains the meaning of the shooting star in two separte dialogues: "Kakeru, did you know? When you run I see a single white line of light at your feet... like a shooting star". And: "That night, when you passed before my eyes, I had a thought: that's my dream right there. You are the ideal form I never reached". In other words, Kakeru made Haiji's "dream come true", hence why he's a "shooting star", because you ask your wishes to shooting stars so that they become true. This is a reference to the running, and it's the same in the anime and the novel. Haiji thinks Kakeru's running is the most beautiful thing in the world, and what he always wanted for himself. At the end of the anime, Haiji repeats the first words he said to Kakeru: "Hey! Do you like running?!", with a shooting star in the background symbolizing Kakeru.   It ties the story nicely because if we go back to the first episode, the first time Haiji saw Kakeru run, Kakeru literally looked like a shooting star going through a beautiful night sky:   But the reason why I find this interesting too is because in the cabin episode, there was ALSO a shooting star (image below) at the end of the scene. Haiji says: "Look! A shooting star!" and the scene ends. In other words, Haiji was praising the night sky for its beauty, using a "tsuki ga kirei" secret confession, and then a shooting star appears, and shooting stars are used in this story to symbolize Kakeru, so he was talking about Kakeru. I think the anime turned this whole thing into romantic symbolism, because this scene with Kakeru and Haiji having a moment at night contemplating the sky from the balcony of a quaint cabin in the woods doesn't happen in the novel either. It was written for the anime to express Haiji's feelings for Kakeru.  Conclusion I believe the anime used subtext to honor the original version of the story, portraying Kakeru and Haiji as gay and in love, without making them say it directly. Subtext is open to interpretation, I get that, but the original version of the story written in 2001 makes it more valid to interpret this relationship as gay. If you read the official (2006) novel, it will become incredibly obvious how the anime deviated from it to make Kakeru and Haiji's relationship come across as gay. Not only did they delete Kakeru's entire subplot of liking Hana, but they converted those feelings into feelings for Haiji. If you ask me whether Haiji and Kakeru were in love in the novel, my answer is no. They have one of the best platonic relationships between two men that I've ever read, but it is not gay. It's a very, very intimate relationship but not romantic. The anime is a different story. The anime did its own thing. It took all the main points from the book and ran its own version, with many differences and loads of original content. After reading the novel, I am now convinced that the intention of the director and the writer of the anime was to make Kakeru and Haiji come across as gay and in love, as they were in the original, unpublished version of the novel. |
RojasebApr 28, 2022 5:04 PM
| hmmm hmmh mhmhmh hmmm ok |
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| nah bro they just friends and there was just a lot of figure of speech |
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| Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Hmmmm... maybe. I dunno.... maybe yes. |
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| TL;DR ...Show was gay. |
| There's no need for all this tension. |
tohruismywaifu said: bro literally posted a fuckin essay on why two anime dudes are gay This became one of my favorite anime recently. I only found out about the author and the original version of the story near the end. I was already in love with the anime before that, but I thought the way they wrote the subtext was very artistic. Some anime get artistic and show metaphoric imagery in the first few episodes then stop because doing that is very expensive in anime. But this anime kept it all the way to the end and once I realized it also worked as an allusion to their feelings, I was just really impressed. This anime was so well-written in general. I spent a lot of time too thinking about all the other not-gay things lmao. I thought of sharing this because I didn't see it getting mentioned. The quality of writing is already mentioned a lot in the episode discussions and practically everyone agrees with that. |
| I mean maybe but the bond that athletes develop after going through hard training is very common. The highs and the lows of being a team and overcoming adversity and the odds can deepen relationships. It doesn’t have to be sexual. I interpreted Kakeru saying he’s in love as he’s in love with running again after he grew to dislike it. Just because the author talked about yaoi in the past doesn’t mean Run With the Wind is yaoi. |
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|Domitian said: Just because the author talked about yaoi in the past doesn’t mean Run With the Wind is yaoi. She wrote Run with the Wind as a yaoi story and explained this in her essays about yaoi |
JnaW99 said: Domitian said: I concur... I think anybody with experience playing a team sport at a competitive level would come to that conclusion as well.I mean maybe but the bond that athletes develop after going through hard training is very common. Keep in mind that they weren't competing until episode 15, and by that point all of the relationships had already been introduced and developed during the months they were practicing together. The only competitions they did were the individual races to get to the Hakone qualifier, and Kakeru and Haiji were the ones to compete the least because they got their records the fastest. And while everyone else in the team grew closer, none of them developed the same intense bond that Haiji and Kakeru had. So I don't believe "competing together" is the main reason why Haiji and Kakeru became so close, because we would have seen the same thing happening for other characters, but it didn't. Regardless of how we interpret their relationship, Haiji and Kakeru developed the most intimacy by far, and I think this is something we can all agree on. The only ones that can compare in terms of "growing closer" are Shindo and Musa. This is an interesting point to mention actually. I don't know if you noticed, but Musa was very queercoded. Usually dressed in pink, his shoes were pink, he does cutsey faces or mannerisms. Musa is flamboyant with a ripped body and Shindo is small, soft-spoken and attentive. If we did a poll for viewers to chose which two characters of the story seemed "gay" based on character designs and personalities, I'm pretty sure Shindo and Musa would make it to the top.       Meanwhile, Haiji got most of the gay jokes. Like Haiji opening the door of Kakeru's room twice in a row when he was changing to watch him naked, or Haiji making a cute lunchbox for Nico-senpai and acting like a housewife, or Haiji saying Musa has a hidden talent (good muscles) because "he was always staring at him in the bathroom". So it's interesting that Haiji/Kakeru and Musa/Shindo were the ones to develop the closest bonds because they are also the only characters in the story with gay undertones.     |
RojasebAug 11, 2021 10:11 PM
| Thank you for writing this! |
Rojaseb said: do you have any ideo whom did hana like?This thread contains spoilers, Make sure to complete the anime first! / I believe Haiji and Kakeru were in love with each other. In this thread I will go over the reasons, providing quotes and screenshots. I actually put a lot of effort to make it as objective as possible. There are 4 main reasons why I believe they were in love:
THE ORIGINAL NOVEL Run with the Wind is based on a novel of the same name released in 2006. Before its official publication, Run with the Wind was a gay romance story. The author, Shion Miura, is very successful and has put out various acclaimed works. On the same year Run with the Wind was published, Shion Miura also published a collection of essays where she talked about the yaoi genre (Japanese gay fiction, usually sexual). The collection of essays is called "It's Not Just a Hobby", and there she explained that she had worked on Run with the Wind since 2001 (5 years before the publication). She had originally written Kakeru and Haiji as a gay couple in a sexual relationship, and this part of the story was then downplayed for the official release in 2006. TSUKI GA KIREI The phrase "Tsuki ga Kirei Desu ne" (月が綺麗ですね - translated "The Moon is Beautiful, Isn't it?") is a Japanese phrase used in fiction literature to mean "I love you". The phrase was coined by the famous novelist and teacher Natsume Sōseki (1867-1912), when he explained it during one of his lectures. Sōseki believed that two people in love do not need direct words to convey their feelings. While you wouldn't see many Japanese people using this in real life to confess their feelings, it's a relatively popular Japanese reference, and there was even a romance anime named after this (Tsuki ga Kirei), as well as a lesbian/GL manga (Tsuki ga Kirei Desu ne). In episode 13 during their stay at the cabin, Kakeru was thinking in the balcony at night and Haiji came out with 2 cups of warm milk to keep him company. After their serious conversation was over, Hana comes out to greet them. Haiji wraps an arm around Kakeru and says: "By the way, Kakeru, do you have a girlfriend?". Kakeru gets flustered and answers: "O-Of course I don't! Where did that come from?!" Haiji answers: "夜空が余り綺麗なものだから", shown in the image above, but a better translation is "Because the night sky is so beautiful" or even "Because the night sky is extremely beautiful". Hana starts to freak out joyfully asking Haiji what he meant while Kakeru remains blushed and confused. This was a "tsuki ga kirei" reference. Keep in mind that there is no rule saying you have to use the word "moon" (tsuki), because it's just a romantic reference, not a literal translation. Saying night sky (yozora) or stars (hoshi) will get the same point across, "I love you." The reason why Kaiji was familiar with this reference is because he's a Literature student. So using a nerdy reference made it easy for him to confess his feelings without Hana and Kakeru knowing what he meant. Further proof that this was a "tsuki ga kirei" reference is found in the next episode (14). While Musa and Kakeru were in the bathtub at night, Musa begins to talk about how he discovered Hana liked one of the twins, but he's very cryptic about this, so Kakeru doesn't understand what he means. At the end of the conversation regarding Hana's feelings, Musa says he "caught the moon". This is another "tsuki ga kirei" reference, but also a wordplay in Japanese because "tsuki" (moon) and "suki" (to like something or to like someone) sound very similar. So Musa was saying he "caught Hana's feelings", using the moon as a metaphor and wordplay. And yes, this is the same thing the novelist Natsume Sōseki was doing when he made the phrase popular. KAKERU IS IN LOVE Right before Kakeru's turn to run in Hakone, Haiji phonecalls him. The conversation ends with Haiji saying: "To me, you are the greatest runner. Become stronger, Kakeru". Moments later Kakeru moves towards the track and says to one of the twins: "What does it feel like to fall in love? I'm in love, too". The twin freaks out and begins to ask him what he meant, but Kakeru takes off. The logical interpretation is that Kakeru is in love with running, because his earlier conversation with Haiji was about improving as a runner. However, the meaning of this dialogue changes when Haiji is about to finish the race. Kakeru is on the other side of the finish line looking at Haiji with tears in his eyes, thinking: "You asked me once what running is. You said you wanted to know what it is. The answer is you. It's you". So if we complete Kakeru's sentence, what we originally thought was "I'm in love with running" now becomes "I'm in love with Haiji". Because to Kakeru, Haiji is the meaning of running. THE SHOOTING STAR Much like Kakeru thinks "Haiji is the meaning of running", Haiji thinks "Kakeru is a shooting star". Moments before Kakeru finishes his race and gives Haiji the sash, Haiji thinks to himself: "Kakeru, did you know? When you run I see a single white line of light at your feet... like a shooting star". The meaning of this had been explained earlier in the episode. Haiji says: "That night, when you passed before my eyes, I had a thought: that's my dream right there. You are the ideal form I never reached". In other words, Kakeru made Haiji's "dream come true", hence why he's a "shooting star", because you ask your wishes to shooting stars so that they become true. This is all a reference to the running! Not romantic feelings. At the end of the anime, Haiji repeats the first words he said to Kakeru: "Hey! Do you like running?!", with a shooting star in the background symbolizing Kakeru. So the reason why I find this to be very interesting is once again in episode 13. After Haiji said to Kakeru, "Because the night sky is so beautiful", there was a shooting star moments later! Haiji says: "Look! A shooting star!" and the scene ends. Meaning Haiji was quoting a romantic reference used to say "I love you", then, the "beautiful night sky" had a shooting star in it, and shooting stars are used in the story to symbolize Kakeru. I think this fits very well, and it also explains why the author decided to go with "night sky" instead of "moon", because they wanted to combine the "tsuki ga kirei" confession with the shooting star metaphor that is Kakeru, and this couldn't be done with the word "moon", because stars are in the sky. Finally, if we go back to the first episode, we get to see the original "shooting star" metaphor that Haiji was talking about. The first time Haiji saw Kakeru run, Kakeru looked like a real shooting star going through a night sky. I'm not even trying to be poetic! I mean it literally, as you can see in the images below. The first episode backs up the confession in episode 13 because Kakeru is, quite literally, a component of a beautiful night sky: Conclusion I believe the anime used subtext to honor the original story, portraying Kakeru and Haiji as gay and in love, without making them say it directly. Subtext is inherently open to interpretation, but the original version of the story makes it more valid to interpret the 4 things explained here as an admission of romantic feelings. Yet there are other details we can add, too:
So many gestures and behavior that are simply not common between 2 straight men. If either of the two characters had been a woman, all of the things in this post would be interpreted as obvious romantic feelings. And I think it's important to bring that up because it was never the author's intention to write an "intimate friendship between two straight men". The pieces that make up Haiji's and Kakeru's relationship were carefully selected to make love happen. And in the anime adaptation we still got to see the powerful moments that had lead them to fall in love in the original story. |
Von_1295 said: WenKamuy said: whom did hana like? Do you have any ideaI also thought they fall in love when in the last episode Haiji was in pain for his knee and Kakeru was worried more than just friend. she liked both twins and both twins liked her |
Von_1295 said: I want an accurate answer what did she say to Musa? It wasn't to Musa, Musa actually thought she liked ONE of the twins but didn't know which. Then the twist is that she actually likes both lol, this was said during one of her dialogues in episode 21 or 22. So in the end when the twins realized this they made a promise that they wouldn't pursue her until they had graduated. And Hana never made up her mind, she kept liking both. |
| Waiiiit this actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for taking your time writting this, I completely agree. |
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| There is so much speculation that I can't take any of this seriously. It's a sports anime. Leave stupid shipping out of it. |
one anime, two anime |
Volkslied said: There is so much speculation that I can't take any of this seriously. It's a sports anime. Leave stupid shipping out of it. What's speculation about the author writing this as a gay novel then trying to publish it for five years but couldn't, because everyone told her to make it not gay, because gay sports novels don't exist in Japan and the industry doesn't want them to exist lmao Leave the stupid homophobia out of it bro, no one wants to know you're a shit person |
RojasebApr 28, 2022 10:47 AM
Rojaseb said: Are you serious? Damn, must've hit a nerve. Leave the stupid homophobia out of it bro, no one wants to know you're a shit person |
one anime, two anime |
Volkslied said: Rojaseb said: Are you serious? Damn, must've hit a nerve. Leave the stupid homophobia out of it bro, no one wants to know you're a shit person Says the guy who got triggered because he read the cartoon boys he liked are gay |
Rojaseb said: Nope. I simply didn't agree with your post.Volkslied said: Are you serious? Damn, must've hit a nerve. Says the guy who got triggered because he read the cartoon boys he liked are gay |
one anime, two anime |
Volkslied said: Nope. I simply didn't agree with your post. If you had simply "not agreed" with me you would have said just that, you wouldn't have mentioned "shipping" as if I'm only foolishly fangirling over these two, when the main reason why I believe everything I mentioned here is because the characters were created gay. And the author herself felt the need to defend that decision in a whole ass book where she talked about how Japanese culture doesn't take BL writers seriously. |
Rojaseb said: Since there is no mention of them being gay in either the original source or the adaptations, I still consider it shipping. But whatever, its not that deep. I was just annoyed by the idea of forcing romance into an anime that is great as it is. And no, I don't have a problem with gays or lesbians. Volkslied said: Nope. I simply didn't agree with your post. If you had simply "not agreed" with me you would have said just that, you wouldn't have mentioned "shipping" as if I'm only foolishly fangirling over these two, when the main reason why I believe everything I mentioned here is because the characters were created gay. And the author herself felt the need to defend that decision in a whole ass book where she talked about how Japanese culture doesn't take BL writers seriously. |
VolksliedApr 29, 2022 6:09 PM
one anime, two anime |
Volkslied said: Since there is no mention of them being gay in either the original source or the adaptations, I still consider it shipping. Banana Fish's author has confirmed many times through interviews and the sequel novel that Ash and Eiji were gay for each other even though it's never said in the manga/anime, yet it was obvious. Romance is up for interpretation and the sexuality of a character doesn't ever have to be said if the author doesn't care to make romance a cornerstone of the story. Yet, it's still there, and it's not shipping because it's something you have to figure out by analyzing the story just like you can do with any other part of the plot or character intention ever hinted yet not explicitly said, and your conclusions can lead you the correct interpretations because not every author will hand-feed you the answers. For homosexual characters it's called queer coding and it's something that has been done as long as literature has existed. Even romantic stories between straight characters have always had romantic subtext never explicitly confirmed, yet evident for anyone who can read between the lines. Your mistake is thinking that romanctic feelings have to be confirmed in stories where romance itself is not at all what the story is about. The lack of confirmation doesn't make it not real, it just means some people will notice and others won't. |
| I agree with you OP and at first this was only a suspicion of mine, but after the Musa scene the Yaoi element became very clear to me as an subtle intention by the author of the novel. |
Rishun_97 said: I agree with you OP and at first this was only a suspicion of mine, but after the Musa scene the Yaoi element became very clear to me as an subtle intention by the author of the novel. Musa and Shindo were absolutely adorable. It was the same for me, thanks to them I understood better what the author was really trying to show. When their calls about seeing the snow together ends, and Musa puts his phone on his forehead, that's something you only do with people you love. |
| Awesome!! I love this anime, Haiji is so dedicated to the team an specially to Kakeru... Great analysis, the development of their feeling is very clear as the story progressed. |
| ~ L'avenir s'ouvre ~ |
| Have I really just read the whole ass essay on Kakeru and Haiji perhaps having a real thing for each other and not just me seeing things? And also supporting claims on Shindo and Musa? Yes, I did. Did I enjoy it? MAN, I LOVED IT! xD I love this thread |
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