Vanitas no Karte Episode 3 Discussion

Porzio said:
I like Pandora Hearts, but this I’m not enjoying this too much so far ngl, the concept is kinda boring and there’s not much I’m looking forward to for the next episodes

DarkBlueMoooon said:


I don't think anyone would like to be forcefully kissed including myself, but as manga reader I understand why Vanitas did that and it goes back to the core of his characters in the story. His character and the way he acts isn't meant to be always done is a good manner but at the same time not in a pure evil manner as well. The author creates characters with depth to make them much more realistic. By that I mean, there is no way on earth you would find a human who never does anything wrong or is always sacrificing for others because simply humans are not one dimensional beings and there are so many factors the play into every single decision and act we perform whether it being wrong or right.

As a manga reader and a huge fan of the author's work, she intentionally makes her characters do something flawed without justifying it as right but rather through other characters mentioning how the act was "bad". In my opinion, this aspect is very realistic to me because it brings the character closer to human and the psychology aspect of it.

I hope the makes sense in a way because Vanitas character has so much depth to it and you begin to understand more as you proceed with the story and realize why he is who he is.

234Mannan said:
I dont know homw many times i wil have to repeat this though but
It was done to shock the viewers and to give us insight regarding vanitas that there is a much darker side to him and he is certainly not a gentle man...
Its not showing that this was a good act. I mean everyone thinks he is a jerk? The thing is vanitas character is quiet complex and follows the concepts of self hatered and most of his actions are unjustifiable.. Unlike Oz from pandora hearts who was touched with this subject in a different manner, Vanitas is a completely different case.
About my first statement, my point was considering u love pandora hearts, this story is quiet similar in tone, themes and complexity to PH and ngl, the director made some of the scenes way more sexual then they actually were. But that is a thing with vampire stories. and one more point
It was done in order to throw her off guard and that made sure that she wont attack them in the end too. So vanitas accomplished his objective but the method was wrong though it was right in his case..considering he is a jerk(For a very good reason)
And i would urge u to have some faith in the author bro...(I mean it should be clear that she doesnt do typical and breaks alot of troupes) As for the blood sucking scenes u can skip the starting or them completely if it makes u uneasy?

Serawii said:


vanitas isn't a good man, he's actually a jerk at times. but all of this adds to his character but hey, if you hate him then you hate him and you probably wont really change your mind even after you know more about him and why he's the way he is
if you also cant handle the more "sexual" scenes where the vampires suck the blood (the director did make it more sexual than it should've been but even in the manga, its not really supposed to hurt but...*spoilers* i will stop
anyways, if you have so many problems with the anime already and cant handle it then its better to drop it.
the leash part did make me laugh tho, it seems like people are so sensitive about it when they dont even know the real reason behind it. and its not even that bad, without a reason but whatever

Maou_heika said:
If it's not justified then why was she blushing so much?

Notenotch said:
Honestly, as someone that loves this manga and Jun Mochizuki's works, I can't get behind this episode.

Alright, I will go through the positive first, because even though I didn't like how this episode was handled overall, I had one thing I really liked. That was the Charlatan Parade scene, it really did an excellent job in what it set out to do, which was disturb and creep you out, I loved it, the shots, the voice acting. SPOILER NAME was absolutely terrifying, and I loved that.

But this episode was totally rushed. Content was cut everywhere, in what I can only assume was an attempt to get to the Bal Masque arc faster, but rushing an already complicated and confusing story is going to do nothing but confuse those viewers even more. Jun Mochizuki's stories shine when viewers are able to take the time to ponder over and appreciate them. In my opinion this episode should have added more to the fight and details of the story, and ended with Dominique's introduction. Going to Altus should have happened in the next episode.

Now the elephant in the room, the Vanitas and Jeanne kissing scene. I understand the intention, Vanitas is a jerk, and thinks himself despicable and disgusting, so he acts in such a way that makes people despise and hate him. The kiss scene does a great job of showing the jerkish side of Vanitas, and does tell the viewers that though he's technically the protagonist and "hero" of the story, he isn't exactly a man of strong moral character. But I think the animation went too far. The scene lasted far too long, and the cuts to the other character's reactions seemed like a cheap attempt to try to lighten a frankly disgusting action. Yes, I know it's almost 1:1 with the manga, but you're also able to get through the scene much faster then the anime's version. When I was watching that scene, it gave me the same vibes as the infamous Asuna scenes from SAO (You know the ones). Not something I wanted to be feeling in an adaptation of one of my favorite stories. This is one scene that I felt should have been severely shortened, skipping Vanitas' creepy licking of Jeanne, skipping the reaction of the other characters, and instead going straight into his confession, immediately followed by Luca's retaliation. The point was made immediately when Vanitas kissed Jeanne without consent, everything else was totally unnecessary and disturbing.

Thankfully, there should be no other scenes like that coming, but I think I will opt to skip this episode in preference of reading the manga when I eventually rewatch.

Laplace_kun said:


She was introduced before as someone. When the child told her to calm down and said she's not that monster anymore, she had a certain reaction. Please, don't keep watching fiction with a one-track mind, or rather using zero brain. You should know why she would blush.

Maou_heika said:
Yes the MC forcibly kisses someone and she blushes logic!

Laplace_kun said:



That's just you proving yourself finally to be what I said by not properly reading my comment.

Maou_heika said:
Can't you read? My reply was in context to DarkBlueMoooon's comment. Stop being a dick to everyone who doesn't like your shitty series.

Cathen99 said:


I don't think barely anyone has actually reacted the way you insinuate, so I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

Maou_heika said:
Can't you read? My reply was in context to DarkBlueMoooon's comment. Stop being a dick to everyone who doesn't like your shitty series.

Maou_heika said:
Yes the MC forcibly kisses someone and she blushes logic!

Notenotch said:
Honestly, as someone that loves this manga and Jun Mochizuki's works, I can't get behind this episode.

Now the elephant in the room, the Vanitas and Jeanne kissing scene. I understand the intention, Vanitas is a jerk, and thinks himself despicable and disgusting, so he acts in such a way that makes people despise and hate him. The kiss scene does a great job of showing the jerkish side of Vanitas, and does tell the viewers that though he's technically the protagonist and "hero" of the story, he isn't exactly a man of strong moral character. But I think the animation went too far. The scene lasted far too long, and the cuts to the other character's reactions seemed like a cheap attempt to try to lighten a frankly disgusting action. Yes, I know it's almost 1:1 with the manga, but you're also able to get through the scene much faster then the anime's version. When I was watching that scene, it gave me the same vibes as the infamous Asuna scenes from SAO (You know the ones). Not something I wanted to be feeling in an adaptation of one of my favorite stories. This is one scene that I felt should have been severely shortened, skipping Vanitas' creepy licking of Jeanne, skipping the reaction of the other characters, and instead going straight into his confession, immediately followed by Luca's retaliation. The point was made immediately when Vanitas kissed Jeanne without consent, everything else was totally unnecessary and disturbing.

Thankfully, there should be no other scenes like that coming, but I think I will opt to skip this episode in preference of reading the manga when I eventually rewatch.

Xerx62 said:


I understand that perhaps it was supposed to be showing that Vanitas is a 'bad guy' but that's completely not how it came across to me. Not at all. His actions weren't really condemned (even when before that scene the other guys were like "he's such a jerk"...it was in a comedic manner), the girl was blushing that usually does not imply being creeped out in anime. The visual effects, everything just made it seem like this is some kinda romantical and comedic scene. That is my problem.
About the tone and themes being similar to Pandora Hearts...so far I can't see it.



It's not that I "can't handle" the sexual scenes, it's more like I found it unfitting, unnecessarry and weird and out of the blue. He was just looking into her memories, it wasn't supposed to be sexual, right.
About the leash it just rubbed me the wrong way after all the other things that happened in this episode. And they didn't share the reason for it either in the episode so...

jaredross said:
I'd kiss that girl vampire too she's hot T_T

EDIT: LOL at all the SJW's hating on the kiss scene. They have probably never been kissed before. How many times do you ask before kissing?

EDIT OF THE EDIT: Also it was probably more than JUST a kiss.

jaredross said:
I'd kiss that girl vampire too she's hot T_T

EDIT: LOL at all the SJW's hating on the kiss scene. They have probably never been kissed before. How many times do you ask before kissing?

EDIT OF THE EDIT: Also it was probably more than JUST a kiss.

joesque said:


Um, why are they SJWs? The scene was a nonconsensual kiss, most people are bound to be taken aback by it, especially if you haven't already established an understanding of their dynamics through the manga.

myaoya said:


It is very unambiguously portrayed as a sexual assault scene. You just have poor comprehension.

jaredross said:


I don't recall her saying no or doing anything that would make it seem like she didn't want to be kissed.

joesque said:


Lack of verbal retaliation isn't indicative of consent. She teared up. I can't believe this anime is attracting people who'd grab and kiss randos w no warning with zero concepts of what constitutes sexual harassment, lmao.

https://powertodecide.org/sexual-health/your-sexual-health/articles-about-healthy-sex-life/was-it-rape-thinking-about-consent

https://clevelandrapecrisis.org/resources/resource-library/featured/rape-myths/

jaredross said:


Lol she never in this episode said she didn't want it. How do you know she didn't? If the genders were switched you probably wouldn't even be all angry. Anf besides all that ITS FICTION. AND ANIME.

joesque said:


I have been angry and I will be angry when the genders are switched.

In anime (or reality) you usually know she didn't want it when she fucking cries, limps up, clearly doesn't reciprocate or look happy in the moment, and immediately flees the scene saying she'll kill him. :)

jaredross said:


She could just be tsundere XD

meyve said:


She tried to push him, then cried and said I will kill you. She blushed because she had never kissed before. She clearly hated it. But ok keep denying

jaredross said:


She could just be tsundere XD

joesque said:


"She secretly likes it! I just know it!"

Sexual harassment mindset right there ew

jaredross said:
I'd kiss that girl vampire too she's hot T_T

EDIT: LOL at all the SJW's hating on the kiss scene. They have probably never been kissed before. How many times do you ask before kissing?

EDIT OF THE EDIT: Also it was probably more than JUST a kiss.

joesque said:


"She secretly likes it! I just know it!"

Sexual harassment mindset right there ew

234Mannan said:
Imagine someone of the opposite sex or the same sex kisses u in such a manner. How will u react? SLap? yeah jeane was paralzed. Blushing would be automatic considering the harmones in your body and everything but this isnt a biology lecture so use some common sense, and that kiss was done to threw her off her game, it worked considering it was her first in hundreds of years...

firstawahono said:


War, genocide, fighting, shooting guns in anime: wow thats's cool

Forced kiss in anime: ew you're the worst human ever

Hahahahah

joesque said:


It's almost as if all of them are bad but one is a socially sensitive issue claiming around 780 mil victims of the present population (1:3). It's almost as if sexual crime issues deal with perpetrators not having clear boundaries which is why these themes are asked to be dealt with tactfully, whereas murder, guns and genocide are split definitively into crime, justice or defense which makes it easier to build narratives around them. It's almost as if anime-comic conventions deal with rampant sexual harassment and not mass shootings. It's almost as if sexual harassment is used in media laxly for gags while genocide almost always finds deeper context.

Next yall will say "murder ok, some pedophilia not okay? hah SJW!"

joesque said:

It's almost as if all of them are bad but one is a socially sensitive issue claiming around 780 mil victims of the present population (1:3). It's almost as if sexual crime issues deal with perpetrators not having clear boundaries which is why these themes are asked to be dealt with tactfully, whereas murder, guns and genocide are split definitively into crime, justice or defense which makes it easier to build narratives around them. It's almost as if anime-comic conventions deal with rampant sexual harassment and not mass shootings. It's almost as if sexual harassment is used in media laxly for gags while genocide almost always finds deeper context.

Next yall will say "murder ok, some pedophilia not okay? hah SJW!"

Laplace_kun said:


It's a pretty defective way of thinking while watching fiction. You have seen three episodes of this anime, Jeanne's mindset or personality hasn't been explored yet - you are bringing a fictional character, creating your own twisted image of her, and sympathizing in a weird way. If it's your personal problem, I won't mind - I don't have the right to... All I can suggest is to drop this and watch something you are more mentally equipped to.
NOBODY lauded Vanitas for his scummy act in the show, and the scene was presented in a way that actually made even some manga readers uncomfortable. Which shows how the show successfully conveys such an event to be creepy. There are also people who are saying blush=she loved it and that is bs too, because, physical stimulation is not equal to sexual consent.

Also love it how you socially responsible citizens find oxygen in anime forums when in real life you don't even care except for posting angry rants in Twitter. I don't specifically mean you, but don't bring irrelevant things to fiction, especially if you are wrongly evaluating it.

At least my chad lady Jeanne doesn't need your sympathy.

Gween_Gween said:

I also dislike sexual harassment but I dont think that this anime is something to throw a fit to. Vanitas is portrayed as an excentric guy living by rules that are clearly out of the realm that we live on currently (Or we have vampires with not human powers?), so it is not necessarily ableing sexual harassment in a positive light but showing it as a part of what the character would do. So it is not morally wrong by my perspective because the story doesnt show itself supporting such actions, it is just shown as an circumstance of the own character in its own given context, like murder in some animes does

234Mannan said:
Imagine someone of the opposite sex or the same sex kisses u in such a manner. How will u react? SLap? yeah jeane was paralzed. Blushing would be automatic considering the harmones in your body and everything but this isnt a biology lecture so use some common sense, and that kiss was done to threw her off her game, it worked considering it was her first in hundreds of years...

joesque said:

I don't have Twitter, I'm involved in social work irl too, my whole family is. Do I finally get a pass to criticise anime now?

If you want me to show you people calling Vanitas a badass/chad, sure.

If the anime itself is trying to deal with these topics I don't see why the audience cannot comment on it? Are we just supposed to absorb the content and not think?

The "angry rant" set you off but others saying Jeanne probably enjoyed it doesn't? Was it Jun Mochizuki's intention to make it look like Jeanne was enjoying it in the moment?

As for the comment you're quoting to: I don't see where I've sympathized with Jeanne, I'm replying to the comment explaining why certain things like sexual harrasment are treated differently in media, it's discourse about the THEME and not the CHARACTERS.

Laplace_kun said:

Don't twist my words. I am telling you aren't criticizing, you are finding fault at a stage where you don't have enough information. It's just being wrong.


I meant IN THE SHOW.


Yes you filled a whole section of this thread with your comments, and so I also have the right to point out things. Nobody told you stop writing. In fact, I am encouraging you to think, but not in an one track mind. Fiction isn't about reacting without reflecting. Of course you can still say who the hell I am to do so.


Those who are saying Jeanne enjoyed it aren't fully right either. I don't know whether they are serious or just shitposting, so can't waste time on them. You have presented your problems articulately, so I thought it's worth to write a reply. You don't know Jeanne fully now. You don't know in what manner she 'enjoyed' it. I also mentioned how physical stimulation is not equal to sexual consent. What was Jun's intentions will be clear to you as you watch the show, so you can start by being patient and then even start a new thread based on the final dissatisfaction.



I agree on that (THEME), but you picked the wrong show. Here most characters are twisted, morals are questionable, and the story just barely began. It also brings questions like what a monster people might be treating Jeanne as if they don't condemn Vani more intensely.

Yes I am replying to you because I expect you to understand. Like I can reply to several other shitty messages in here, but that'll be a waste of time. Nothing is to be taken personally. But communication is important.

joesque said:

No problem, I don't think I twisted your words for the first part, because its distasteful when people use the "Oh look twitter warrior with no real life social work!" rebuttal, just seems like baseless assumption. But aside from that, thank you for taking the time out to engage with me. While I disagree with some of the things you've said, I understand that you want this show to be given a chance, which hopefully people can keep doing, lest the anime fucks up the tone/direction again.

Maou_heika said:
Blushing is not common sense, I most certainly would have slapped or kicked and tried to push him off.

234Mannan said:
At this point u are just being biased....Does common biology doesnt have a place in your dictionary? Lets reverse the roles and its jeane instead of vanitas... I would love to see how u would have reacted to that... No offence miss but Jeanne was paralyzed and its common stimulation of a body.according to biology thankyou.plus vampires dont exist in the real world and u are suppose to look at it according to the world they are designed for.... in the show they get stimulated pretty fast in comparison to humans...in the series(At the thought of drinking blood even and they have extreme emotions as well) ... and again i repeat i would love to see your reaction if it was vanitas instead of jeanee. I know that would have been CuTe...

Maou_heika said:
I would most certainly have the same opinion even if the roles were reversed. Biology has got nothing to do with this, its the author that's trying to romanticize it.

Maou_heika said:
I would most certainly have the same opinion even if the roles were reversed. Biology has got nothing to do with this, its the author that's trying to romanticize it.