Was the Master of the Crypt really a bad guy?

Jul 7, 2016 5:17 AM

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Jun 2009

5408

So I just finished reading the manga again and the final confrontation between Nausicaä and the "Master of the Crypt" always makes me scratch my head a bit.

"He" is cleary made out to be the big bad of the series and the destruction of the Crypt is celebrated as something good, but is that really the case? What IS Nausicaä's argument there in the end? Humans are both good and bad sure, but how does that make the plan to clean the world and rebuild it evil? Does it all boil down to "the old technology should not be revived as well, so let's detroy it"? I feel like there is supposed to be something more to it, but I can't find it. Like, it's supposed to show how the master completely misses an aspect of what it means to be human or something, but I just can't make sense of it.

Any thoughts?

Ah who am I kidding, it's not like someone will reply to this anyway.

Aug 10, 2016 2:23 AM

Sh4de

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Apr 2013

229

grandy_UiD said:
So I just finished reading the manga again and the final confrontation between Nausicaä and the "Master of the Crypt" always makes me scratch my head a bit.

"He" is cleary made out to be the big bad of the series and the destruction of the Crypt is celebrated as something good, but is that really the case? What IS Nausicaä's argument there in the end? Humans are both good and bad sure, but how does that make the plan to clean the world and rebuild it evil? Does it all boil down to "the old technology should not be revived as well, so let's detroy it"? I feel like there is supposed to be something more to it, but I can't find it. Like, it's supposed to show how the master completely misses an aspect of what it means to be human or something, but I just can't make sense of it.

Any thoughts?

Ah who am I kidding, it's not like someone will reply to this anyway.

I don't believe there is a black and white choice.

In the end Nausicaa rejects the continued manipulation of the old civilization that created the polluted world in the first place and led to the creation of multiple weapons and cycles of collapse and chaos after the Seven Days of Fire. By destroying the Crypt they can break free of their influence and choose their own fate along with the fate of the world.

For better or worse, who can say? Nausicaa herself sure can't either, portrayed when she looks back at the destroyed eggs of the engineered humans in sadness. There's always a chance their bodies adapt back to a more 'clean' world and the forest people could play a part in that; maybe even the Master of the Garden?

In a funny way I am reminded of Final Fantasy X, when

Jun 28, 2017 11:31 PM

mehmet_gurdal

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Jun 2017

That bio-Ai manipulated all former dorok emperors and that caused countless deaths.
Deaths of those preserved people can't compare with those thousands. So she did the right thing
About the master of the garden I believe he created by someone else from the old world; he preserves all those plants and animals with trapping people who tries to stole them but I think with time he created his own unique vision and decided to keep some of people as his companions (who can blame him a thousand years is a very long time to be alone :D his creator should give him a mate :D )
Remember what nausicaä says about the life everything decides it's own destiny the mold ohma even the heedra so we can assume that she sees the master of the garden as a person who decides his own decisions.
If we could have been seen a vol8 for series I bet he would help the people for their illnesses (he cured nausicaä so why not the other people)
I believe that human race will survive after the purification process nausicaä probably will ask to master of the garden to help them.

Nov 23, 2017 3:53 PM

Sigmar-Unberogen

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Nov 2013

6932

I won't say he was evil. I'd say he was loyal to people of the old world and he wished to restore the old world, and old men, using all means necessary.
I mean, how can you say that a gun designer is evil; if someone tells you how to build weapons of mass destruction, it is up to YOU whether you'll actually make them and more importantly USE them.

Nausicaa was all about "no more killing"
I was quite disappointed how she just nuked the eggs and the crypt lord. Every life form has the right to live.

Jan 19, 2019 8:19 AM

Kniaz_Ignatz

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Dec 2018

They gray aspect of ending and Nausicaä hipocrisy makes it even better, but I think that stopping of immanetization of the eschaton was a good thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton

Kniaz_IgnatzApr 26, 2019 7:41 AM

Feb 20, 2019 7:29 AM

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562329

Well, the grey aspect of the series was a point in the first place, the ending is actually perfect in my opinion.

It depends on how you look at it. If the crypt wasn't destroyed, new set of humans would emerge from it, use this current generation of humans as "tools", giving rise to a purified world. But looking at Nausicaa's perspective, she meant to give the humans another chance. She felt that this same cycle of hatred would continue again and again, after being "reset" by the Crypt, and wanted the current humans to evolve and adapt. In other words, she rejected the only basis of "humans are corrupt " and decided that humanity wasn't beyond redemption. And can you really trust the words of the Crypt, which abandons and allies in the blink of an eye?

On the other hand, if you look from the Crypt's perspective, perhaps it is indeed a long term benefit, by using science within that archive, it could have helped make the life more efficient and sustainable, help nature evolve beside humanity. Who knows?

The ending essentially takes the manga to the starting point, and it fits perfectly.

Apr 4, 2019 4:50 PM

triclon

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Apr 2019

It is an interesting question and one that I have thought about for a long time. The Master of the Crypt and Nausicaa argue back and forth about purity and corruption, humanity going extinct, cleaning up the polluted world, ect. but you need to take a step back and think about what they Crypt is doing. The forest ecosystem, the Ohmu, and Nausicaa's people are all bio-engineered by the old world humans as a giant sacrifice, like cattle to the slaughter, to "clean" up the polluted world and return things to how they were before, and the Master is the one pushing the plan through at all costs. The bio-engineered life seems to get along just fine on its own, despite the pollution, but the Crypt's manipulation directly causes war, Daikaishos, and all the suffering and death that Nausicaa bore witness too. Nausicaa choosing to destroy the Master of the Crypt was an act of survival, against an entity intent on sacrificing her people.

Sep 27, 2020 1:39 PM

Spartan1590

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Mar 2011

triclon said:
It is an interesting question and one that I have thought about for a long time. The Master of the Crypt and Nausicaa argue back and forth about purity and corruption, humanity going extinct, cleaning up the polluted world, ect. but you need to take a step back and think about what they Crypt is doing. The forest ecosystem, the Ohmu, and Nausicaa's people are all bio-engineered by the old world humans as a giant sacrifice, like cattle to the slaughter, to "clean" up the polluted world and return things to how they were before, and the Master is the one pushing the plan through at all costs. The bio-engineered life seems to get along just fine on its own, despite the pollution, but the Crypt's manipulation directly causes war, Daikaishos, and all the suffering and death that Nausicaa bore witness too. Nausicaa choosing to destroy the Master of the Crypt was an act of survival, against an entity intent on sacrificing her people.

This was my interpretation too, nicely put.

Apr 12, 2022 9:36 AM

sjruruchuchu

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Oct 2018

I thought it was about nature over nurture with nature allowing more freedom and thus more human value so the crypt chose nurture and managed to poison everyone despite enslaving people.
I'm not really sure how the mechanism works inside of that but I'd highlight Nausicaa saving the Ohmu bait, "sacrificing" herself with the Ohmu and her "child" and how she interacted with him. The theme of all of those, and the end fight, seemed to be fundamentally about sacrifice, so in that she is consistent and not grey. A supporting event is when she was offered a nice place to stay with the two princes and she rejects that which shows that even in an engineered "perfect" or positive world, she rejected it. Engendered in that rejection is self-sacrifice and her ideal which is nature as a higher value that grants human freedom.

The author revisits this theme a lot but adds more spiritual elements in later works even if self-sacrifice isn't necessarily used as a mechanism to drive the story forward or gain value fundamentally.

Apr 21, 2022 5:35 AM

#10

grandy_UiD

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Jun 2009

5408

I really like how this gets dragged back up every couple of years. Old-school manga like this don't get the attention they deserve.

For everyone wondering, upon ANOTHER re-read I pretty much came to the conclusion of triclon a little higher up. It's basically "Yeah, MAYBE you're right and what you do is good for the world overall, but your plan boils down to wiping out all of current humanity and fuck that shit, dude."

May 10, 2022 1:58 AM

#11

Green5

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Oct 2016

grandy_UiD said:
I really like how this gets dragged back up every couple of years. Old-school manga like this don't get the attention they deserve.

For everyone wondering, upon ANOTHER re-read I pretty much came to the conclusion of triclon a little higher up. It's basically "Yeah, MAYBE you're right and what you do is good for the world overall, but your plan boils down to wiping out all of current humanity and fuck that shit, dude."

I've read and re-read Nausicaa many times as well, on and off every few years. My interpretion is slightly different from you and a few others here. The Master of the Crypt says that the new humans who can't live without pollution can be bioengineered back to being able to live in a completely pure world, so the "new humans are sacrifices, and fuck that" arguement doesn't really hold (I don't think the Master is lying either).

I see it as such: the Master sees it as "Old World good, New World bad", because no pollution vs pollution, and lost technologies and arts can be brought back. Nausicaa sees it as "Old World SAME as New World, with a small difference that makes New World better". The "same" part is that new humans have learnt to live with pollution, and even though they suffer, quoting her, "suffering and tragedy and folly will not disappear in a purified world", and also that things like the bioengineered plants and insects of the forest are just as beautiful as naturally evolved lifeforms. The "small difference" part is the New World remembers the tragedies of the Old World; the Sea of Decay and the scattered remains of God Warriors are reminders of their mistakes, but if you bring back the Old World, its out of sight, out of mind, and same thing will happen again.

And the ambiguous part is perhaps Nausicaa is wrong. Perhaps when the Old World returns, lessons can be taught and passed from generation to generation to remind them of the great tragedies.

Green5May 10, 2022 2:02 AM

Jul 26, 2023 12:04 PM

#12

Lux_Vacui

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Dec 2020

235

I don't think at all the crypt is portrayed as the "bad guy". As it can be seen by that panel when Nausicaa doubts her own decision. The message is meant to be ambiguous. However in the end Miyazaki rejects the "hubris" of man to control nature, and leaves the outcome to the "planet", to nature.

It's not a message i can agree on, if it was me i would have kept that technology. However from Nausicaa's point of views it is completely understandable why she did it. Their lives, and the misery of their life conditions, was brought upon them by the actions of the humans of old. And at the end she discovers those very same people of the past had set in motion and pre-planned their history and wars with its bio-technology, and possibly their doom before a new human race would be cloned in mass by the crypt.

In the end the crypt offers Nausicaa an ambiguous offer to restore their bodies to survive in an unpolluted world. However this offer is doubtful since it can be seen those eggs with pure human fetuses are being grown in it, and Nausicaa thinks the crypt just wants to use currents human beings as slaves to its own ends. I think after all the death and misery caused by the Dorok's actions it's understandable why Nausicaa would reject the technology of the crypt, so that it may not be repeated. Even though it may no be the logical thing to do for the long term survival of the human race, from her point of view i can understand why she did it.

Lux_VacuiJul 26, 2023 12:18 PM

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