New
Sep 14, 2009 2:43 PM
#1
| What prompted you to click the "Join this Club" button? Are you simply a huge Code Geass fan, or was there something more? As for me, in all of my years of watching anime and movies, I've NEVER experienced such a huge emotional shift in such a short time frame. Just when I thought the show was going to introduce a host of cute, innocent-looking antagonists that we could learn about and understand their underlying motivations, the show brushes them aside just as quickly as they were introduced. I've never seen such an intensely casual portrayal of combat-related female death in any medium (movies, anime, video games, etc), especially with such uniquely defined (and uber-cute) character designs in both attire and appearance. If someone showed me Marika's and Liliana's character designs before I saw Code Geass, I would have had no doubt they would have been minor (if not major) characters. Boy was I wrong... |
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Nov 24, 2009 4:36 PM
#2
| I, new, and having just joined, did so pretty much for reasons similar to yours- I see the Valkyrie Squad, much like many other elements of the good-yet-flawed second season of Geass, as wasted potential, in design and in storytelling. Admittedly, it may be rash to think they would have gotten outstanding focus among certain other characters, but at least a bit would have been nice- as you said, it would have certainly been nice to have somewhat innocent antagonists out of them, seeing as every other Britannian character, with one or two exceptions, was all-out evil, crazy, or never expanded upon. A shame, really. |
Nov 28, 2009 5:28 AM
#3
| Well said, NyxOne, and thanks for sharing your thoughts on this unfortunately barren club. One of the things I love most about anime is their depiction of antagonists. I find myself relating to, or even rooting for, many shows' antagonists since they have real, and often tragic, motivations. When Marika cries out the name of her brother just before she dies, you just KNOW that she has underlying motivations beyond a typical "evil villainess". Not only does she appear to be fighting intensely for something she believes in, but her brother's death seems to be weighing heavily on her heart. There is also something so powerfully tragic about the fact that her brother's killer also ends up killing her. So many unanswered questions... As you say, she and Liliana do not warrant the same level of attention as the major characters, but they DEFINITELY warrant more than the two seconds of screen time they received. I also definitely agree that "wasted potential" is a common theme for the second season: Just ask poor Monica Kruszewski and Dorothea Ernst who also shared the same "brushed aside death of visually-well-conceived (i.e. smoking hot) yet sorely underdeveloped characters". Monica Kruszewski: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=5998 Dorothea Ernst: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?p=18626937 As weird as this may sound, I seriously find these four characters more mentally stimulating than Geass's entire main cast. [EDIT: Fixed spelling errors] |
ElegantSuccubusDec 13, 2009 11:17 AM
Nov 28, 2009 1:21 PM
#4
| Well, as said, it's a shame. Marika certainly has untapped potential both through her brother's death, and her coping with it, and her design in general- the same applies for Liliana, and the Knights girls. And it's always the little things, the episodic characters, that pique interest, isn't it? |
Dec 12, 2009 7:05 PM
#5
| I think they did a good job at blurring the line of morality between the factions. There were times were you could sympathize or hate each side. The biggest foils were Gino and Ogi. Gino represents the worst of the Britannian nobility: a spoiled brat who knows nothing of the real world or war. Ogi is quite frankly, an idiotic terrorist. As of why I joined, the same reasons that have already been stated and as a sort of protest against people referring to the Valkyries as cannon fodder. Monica or 12-tan is my favorite female in the show and luckily has a large amount of fanart. Dorothea was created just to die in place of Nonette to appease fans of Lost Colours. Her official profile appeared only a week before episode 22 aired. |
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Dec 12, 2009 11:02 PM
#6
| Agreed, MrRogers. It's sad that we the viewers didn't even get an opportunity to either sympathize with and/or hate the Valkyrie Squad. I do strongly share your fascination with Monica as she has an absolutely fanTASTIC character design that thankfully lives on in a plethora of fanart and doujinshi. I didn't realize, though, that Dorothea was so last-minute. I can just imagine the conversation between the writers and character designer Kimura Takahiro... --------- WRITERS: "Takahiro-san... We need your help! The Knight of Four shows up in next week's episode, and she doesn't even have a character design yet!" TAKAHIRO-SAN: "The Knight of FOUR?! Wow... I better go all out, then. Leave it to me!" [One week later] TAKAHIRO-SAN [excited]: "So, do you think the viewers will appreciate all the hard work I spent on Dorothea's character design? The dark skin and dark hair really make her emerald eyes stand out, and her over-the-crown single-helical-side-braided hair design is an anime industry first!" WRITERS: "Uhh... She's dead." TAKAHIRO-SAN: "Oh. Um... Okay then. Well, I finally finished Monica's casual attire and swimsuit designs. Which episode are those going to be featured in?" WRITERS: "Uhh... About her..." --------- Seriously... Exploding cockpits and super-cute anime girls should never be mixed. Every time I think about these four characters, especially Monica's wide-eyed bewildered expression just before she dies, a little part of me dies inside as well. :( Do you know if any of them showed up in Lost Colours? I read that it featured over 40 characters. [EDIT: I just noticed something interesting that might explain the origin of Dorothea's unique hair design and supports your comments about her serving as a "replacement" for Nonette. If you take Nonette's left-sided braid, flip it over the top of her head, and let it hang from her right side... Voila, it's Dorothea. Coincidence? I think not.] |
ElegantSuccubusDec 13, 2009 3:46 PM
Dec 19, 2009 5:26 PM
#7
| It is a waste of perfectly good character designs, Marika especially (I have a thing for blue-eyed brunettes). I also agree that there is wasted potential with Marika and Kewell. To tell the truth, for a non-Geass related fan project, I'm actually considering using Marika's design as the basis for a character of my own. |
Oct 4, 2017 10:26 PM
#8
ElegantSuccubus said: TAKAHIRO-SAN: "Oh. Um... Okay then. Well, I finally finished Monica's casual attire and swimsuit designs. Which episode are those going to be featured in?" It's here, brother, it's finally here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJDunSScrw |
Oct 5, 2017 3:39 PM
#9
enderheisenberg said: It's here, brother, it's finally here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJDunSScrw I just discovered this several days ago, and my mind was completely blown! Not only does Monica appear to play a major role in the game, she's a PLAYABLE character! We even get to finally see her custom Knightmare that was sorely missing in the anime, and she is shown in both her formal uniform and combat attire variation. She never looked better! Even though I doubt we'll ever see an English translation of this mobile game, her inclusion is beyond awesome, and I'm most excited to see what her unexpected game appearance means for the future: Will it signal a new wave of fans who will similarly decry her deprived story role that ended with a senseless death? Will she show up in other games? Is there a possibility we might see Marika, Liliana, and/or Dorothea in some capacity? If that were to happen... OMG! I think this is cause for celebration. Time to add a new topic to this forum... |
Oct 7, 2017 10:26 PM
#10
ElegantSuccubus said: I just discovered this several days ago, and my mind was completely blown! Not only does Monica appear to play a major role in the game, she's a PLAYABLE character! We even get to finally see her custom Knightmare that was sorely missing in the anime, and she is shown in both her formal uniform and combat attire variation. She never looked better! Don't forget the swimsuit. I'm just glad that someone in some position of authority is 100% cool with keeping her alive and happy, this is the kind of softer world people asked for. |
Oct 8, 2017 3:52 PM
#11
enderheisenberg said: Don't forget the swimsuit. I'm just glad that someone in some position of authority is 100% cool with keeping her alive and happy, this is the kind of softer world people asked for. I think Monica's in-game swimsuit design is very appealing and creative in how the interlinked white and red straps evoke her coiled hair ribbons. However, I'm not sure I understand why this attire is an option for her during combat. If this was a vacation cutscene or such, the context would make more sense, but this is just weird. IMHO, the combat swimsuit and her mid-fight bouncing breast animation feel like a disservice to what little we know of her character. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love that the developer decided to include her character in the game, but it would feel more genuine if she wasn't subjected to the same copy-and-paste fan-service as other characters. In my mind, she is above all of that. (Maybe my vision of her character and personality has been wrong all this time). |
Oct 9, 2017 3:04 AM
#12
ElegantSuccubus said: enderheisenberg said: Don't forget the swimsuit. I'm just glad that someone in some position of authority is 100% cool with keeping her alive and happy, this is the kind of softer world people asked for. I think Monica's in-game swimsuit design is very appealing and creative in how the interlinked white and red straps evoke her coiled hair ribbons. However, I'm not sure I understand why this attire is an option for her during combat. If this was a vacation cutscene or such, the context would make more sense, but this is just weird. IMHO, the combat swimsuit and her mid-fight bouncing breast animation feel like a disservice to what little we know of her character. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love that the developer decided to include her character in the game, but it would feel more genuine if she wasn't subjected to the same copy-and-paste fan-service as other characters. In my mind, she is above all of that. (Maybe my vision of her character and personality has been wrong all this time). Tell me about your vision! |
Oct 9, 2017 5:37 PM
#13
Well, based on her few scenes from the anime, my vision of Monica is someone who is very capable, knowledgeable, trusted, and above all else: composed. When she informed the emperor of the massive FLEIJA explosion, she remained completely calm and even questioned his decision to remain nearby. Later, she politely informed him of what she believed to be an important incoming transmission (even though he promptly dismissed and effectively hung up on her... how rude!). After she took command of the emperor's flagship, her presence there put a fellow knight's mind at ease, implying she was very capable. Monica's trustworthiness was even used to "convince" Anya to stop her Geass-driven attack. During the brief moment before she entered combat, she showed a very composed reaction after witnessing an intense bombardment. She showed no reservations and appeared ready and eager to enter combat, but that was sadly never meant to be... The only time she showed any emotion was when she realized she was at death's door. I know Monica was in Oz, but I haven't read that, so my opinion is based solely on her anime portrayal. Does anyone know if her depiction in Oz or the "Super Robot Wars X-Ω" game provide any further insight into her character or personality? |
Oct 9, 2017 10:36 PM
#14
ElegantSuccubus said: Well, based on her few scenes from the anime, my vision of Monica is someone who is very capable, knowledgeable, trusted, and above all else: composed. When she informed the emperor of the massive FLEIJA explosion, she remained completely calm and even questioned his decision to remain nearby. Later, she politely informed him of what she believed to be an important incoming transmission (even though he promptly dismissed and effectively hung up on her... how rude!). After she took command of the emperor's flagship, her presence there put a fellow knight's mind at ease, implying she was very capable. Monica's trustworthiness was even used to "convince" Anya to stop her Geass-driven attack. During the brief moment before she entered combat, she showed a very composed reaction after witnessing an intense bombardment. She showed no reservations and appeared ready and eager to enter combat, but that was sadly never meant to be... The only time she showed any emotion was when she realized she was at death's door. I know Monica was in Oz, but I haven't read that, so my opinion is based solely on her anime portrayal. Does anyone know if her depiction in Oz or the "Super Robot Wars X-Ω" game provide any further insight into her character or personality? In the OZ chapter she appears, first thing she does is chastising some Britannian soldiers extorting money in an occupied city. There, she meets the protagonist Orpheus, a vigilante who's about to get into a fight with the same men. Orpheus likes what she did, and she asks him out for a date later. However, right afterwards Orpheus gets in his KMF to attack the hadron gun testing facility Monica is stationed in, she fights back with her KMF Florence, gives Orpheus a run for his money, but ambushed by Orpheus' partner and knocked unconscious. From what I can gather in the SRW screenshots that had her interact with others... She's nice, Orpheus' sister sponsored her to join the player team, and she keeps talking about Orpheus when being together with other female mech pilots. |
Oct 10, 2017 3:40 PM
#15
enderheisenberg said: In the OZ chapter she appears, first thing she does is chastising some Britannian soldiers extorting money in an occupied city. Hearing this pleases me greatly. Since she was killed so early, we were only able to see her logistic side. He never saw her beliefs and values, and this act supports what I envisioned of her. We never saw her personal side in the anime, so this is quite refreshing. Although it's been a while since I've been in the Code Geass universe, your comments have prompted me to want to read Oz, so I think I'm going to do that. :) enderheisenberg said: From what I can gather in the SRW screenshots that had her interact with others... She's nice, Orpheus' sister sponsored her to join the player team, and she keeps talking about Orpheus when being together with other female mech pilots. I wish I had a more commanding knowledge of Japanese so that I could play the game without having to stop to translate with every line. I realize her portrayal in it isn't canon, but it sounds like they're being faithful to what little we know of her. It has always upset me that Suzaku was able to approach and kill her by surprise. It just doesn't make sense. I can't imagine that she was that poor of a pilot, and even though there were significant events occurring at the time, she did not seem overwhelmed. My theory is that the writers of the show were initially considering her as a more prominently featured character, but they had too many other characters in the mix and couldn't figure out how to fit her into the narrative. Given her status as a Knight of the Round, they couldn't simply ignore her, so they instead killed her off and "solved" their issue at the expense of what could have been a fascinating character. |
May 7, 2018 4:33 AM
#16
| Two years ago, this hell of a dude just decided he'll draw pictures of Monica every few weeks. It's just Monica living a normal life, trying out plenty of new clothing, sometimes hanging out with friends or doing the in-out in-out with Orpheus. You'll feel warm looking at these pictures. https://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=18413833 |
May 7, 2018 2:38 PM
#17
enderheisenberg said: Two years ago, this hell of a dude just decided he'll draw pictures of Monica every few weeks. It's just Monica living a normal life, trying out plenty of new clothing, sometimes hanging out with friends or doing the in-out in-out with Orpheus. You'll feel warm looking at these pictures. https://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=18413833 I've been THOROUGHLY enjoying this artist's releases for many months. I'm amazed at his insane level of dedication for creating high quality drawings of Monica in both her piloting and command attire. Each one brings a smile to my face yet also sadness since they remind me of her tragic fate. Today's release features a fun creative pose: https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=68628785 |
May 8, 2018 5:59 AM
#18
ElegantSuccubus said: Each one brings a smile to my face yet also sadness since they remind me of her tragic fate. True that, it's like the story of the Japanese manga artist known only as Abgrund- Abgrund is a drawing assistant for the manga Narutaru, which is over the top traumatic and violent. There's a guy Abgrund was in charge of drawing who gets stuffed into the fridge almost literally, you get the idea, and ever since the manga ended once in a while Abgrund will draw a doujinshi featuring that kid living a normal gay life. I'm no artist and can't do writing either, so I'll happily scout around. |
Aug 25, 2018 2:37 PM
#19
| MAL is back! And you know what, the artist hadn't posted anything the last couple of months. His original art stopped too. |
May 16, 2021 8:11 PM
#20
| Like everyone else, I joined because I am glad to have found more fans of these poor girls. Although, unlike probably everyone else here, their deaths are part of the reason why I hate Code Geass so much. I won't attack anyone for liking the show, but I feel like a lot of the shock value moments showed a certain ineptitude among the writing staff. There is the confirmation that the corporate offices at Sunrise wanted the series wrapped up as soon as possible so they could continue to focus on Gundam, but even then it utterly repulses me that the writers would so callously cast away the lives of children and never even have Kallen regret her actions and remain as self-centered and angry as she was in the first episode. Well, they're alive in the new timeline, so we may finally get content with them with the hopefully better writers who took over after "Resurrection." But it doesn't wash away the stain of the end product of R2 or the fact that so many people hail the show as THE perfect anime while ignoring such an unpunished war crime. |
| "Tomatoes are nutritious and scrumptious."--Ryuunoske Akasaka, "The Pet Girl of Sakurasou" Sword Art Online is mid, not utter trash. Oh yes, I'm such a rebel. 😎 |
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