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Sep 3, 2017 9:59 AM

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Jul 2013
15642
So, Magane was best girl after all. Good, good.

Tbh, it was obvious Souta's character was going to be Shimazaki, since she was the only thing who could be used to defeat Altair after everything they thorwed to her (including the plan with the Alter Ego) failed. It was the only possible way the good guys could had a chance of winning.

Also, design wise Sirius > New Altair > Altair
Sep 3, 2017 9:59 AM

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Mar 2013
1970
Cliche ridden but I like dialogues and animation. Passable up to this point.

Oh how much I love Altair's shocked face at the end lol
Sep 3, 2017 10:00 AM

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Mar 2013
1970
GangsterCat said:
Modo942000 said:

more like Setsuna
setusna is also altair's creation



Lmao somehow I'm laughing hard :v
Sep 3, 2017 10:02 AM

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Jun 2016
336
so first thing first... with the help of magane... they make what ?

so can we get a recap sir ? this is the first time i need a recap anime
Sep 3, 2017 10:09 AM
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Jul 2015
52
i knew it, hahahaha i've been saying this since episode 15 here, hahaha got that nice feeling of souta's own character, bringing back from the dead hahaha!!!!

just proof hahaha
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1637150&show=50#post64
Nyanchan053Sep 3, 2017 10:13 AM
Sep 3, 2017 10:55 AM
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Mar 2015
76
RE:creator, get it?
Sep 3, 2017 11:48 AM
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Mar 2016
1481
Looks like a long round 2.
Sep 3, 2017 3:42 PM
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Jul 2014
657
joshua10red said:
Something cool they did I don't think a lot of people have caught on to..the artwork they showed is legit real fanart from pixiv...
Someone's going crazy about seeing their work shown in the anime..That was so meta XD. Talk about using your concept well
https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=62962983
https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=62555009


There's a few more of them, whose works can be found if you google "re:creators altair wallpaper"

Cour_Victor said:


She got caught off-guard, her rant full of rage about holopsicon was for that their plan worked. She even defeated Altair. But it didn't end there. Altair proved herself. She went from Beyblade Gilgamesh to a subject of powerlevel arguments. She needed a battle. This is how she wins.


Nailed it, and FWIW your description of her as "beyblade gilgamesh" probably gave me the best laugh of the night. Even then, and even before she body-jacked Sirius (right around the moment that Sirius touched her hat), she was still more powerful than any character within the canonical F/SN universe (excluding characters introduced in F/GO). Even with Gil's gate of Babylon, hell, even with Ea, he'd be no match for her.

Possibly the only character who might overpower her in a slugging match would be Homura as she appears in Madoka Magica the Movie: Rebellion or Accelerator from A Certain Magical Index. Actually, Accelerator would be a poor match, since she could just reverse his vectors on him by reversing cause and effect via the 16th(?) Movement.

SirKnight007 said:


...

Yup, turns out that the deal Souta and Magane made comes full circle. And we now see a rather familiar sight.
An empty train station. It's quite bright outside since it's very sunny outside.From the shadows, a girl comes down a staircase. Her eyes are filled with sorrow and betrayal. The emptiness of the subway reflected on her current state. Nobody was there for her then, Nobody will be there for her now.
Only this time, Altair's there and she finally meets her maker.
LITERALLY.


*slow clap*

Awesome reference-filled description there. I've held the position that Setsuna is there to prompt Altair's redemption as a character and as a villain; to make her completely abandon her goals because in the face of being able to see and save her creator (even if the whole thing is a lie) those goals no longer hold any meaning.

Of course, the whole thing could backfire massively, as there is the question of what happens if or when Altair realizes that this version of Setsuna is fake, not to mention that Altair was seen talking to the "real" Shimazaki Yuna in episode 6.

firemagnetSep 3, 2017 4:20 PM
Sep 3, 2017 4:07 PM
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Apr 2013
113
It's been obvious that Shimazaki would appear again at some point as early as the the 1st 7 episodes, but I still shed tears when I saw her walking down those stairs.
Sep 3, 2017 4:27 PM
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Jul 2014
657
Deathsaurus said:
It's been obvious that Shimazaki would appear again at some point as early as the the 1st 7 episodes, but I still shed tears when I saw her walking down those stairs.


Same here. Episode 14 just confirmed it, and I've been waiting ever since. I'm not afraid to admit that I shed a few tears over that scene. Altair's shocked face was also absolutely priceless just for seeing her get her comeuppance. The expressions she makes and how she expresses herself are one of the reasons why I find her so fun to watch. Particularly this episode. I can see a lot of meme images made from the expressions she's provided as of episode 20.
Sep 3, 2017 6:18 PM

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Apr 2016
34
LelouchXLuluko said:
I hope Altair wins, f*** humanity.


Same here tbh
Altair FTW!
Sep 3, 2017 7:57 PM
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Jul 2014
657
Kuroko33 said:
LelouchXLuluko said:
I hope Altair wins, f*** humanity.


Same here tbh
Altair FTW!


Altair has no chance of winning, but Setsuna might have a chance. If she is who we have been led to believe, and she's still burdened with all the rage, pain, and remorse that Altair described in episode 8, then she could well turn on Souta, in a scenario pictured in the lyrics of Sawano's "God of Ink" which describes the "the ink of god on the page, and her rage coming out."

Here are the three scenarios that I believe are most plausible for episode 21 given the information we, as the audience, have:

Vector 1 (as inspired by the lyrics from God of Ink): Sota's plan backfires, horribly, within the span of the next episode. After a brief reunion, during which the consciousness of the real Shimazaki--which Altair has been talking to since episode 6--is transferred into the body of Souta's Shimazaki, Altair and true Shimazaki break out of the cage for a showdown with Souta, Meteora, and Magane at Nissan stadium. Souta uses Magane's power once again, and defeats both Shimazaki and Altair with his own unique creation in a draw that happens directly in front of the audience. This battle destroys all creations, and closes out episode 22 with an epilogue that ties back in to the start of episode 1.

Vector 2: As she meets her creator, the goal she's always longed for, Altair ceases her revenge. In an event which takes up the first half of the episode, Altair is redeemed as a character through Shimazaki, and accepts her fate, abandoning her goal of destroying the universe. With Altair stripped of most of her powers thanks to "Shimazaki" reasserting creative rights, Magane moves her own plan into motion, using her powers and the considerable wealth she has collected to make an attempt at world domination and flip the equation between the creators and the created, "recreating" the world into what she sees fit. Sota, Shimazaki, Meteora, and Altair face off against Magane in a battle which concludes towards the end of the 22nd episode. Team Altair fights Magane to a draw which sees all of the remaining creations destroyed or otherwise forced to return to their worlds.

Vector 3: Despite being caught off guard initially, Altair eventually realizes that this Shimazaki is not hers, and reacts accordingly--though not before Shimazaki can strip her of most of her powers. No longer capable of using the Holopsicon to write the universe out of existence, Altair kills Souta's version of Shimazaki, and then breaches the cage, crippling Blitz, the last of the creations in order to do so. Altair makes a beeline for the stadium to deal with the ultimate target of her revenge, and the only one who would know what Shimazaki really looks like: Sota. Her arrival at towards the end of the battle sets up a final conflict between Magane and Meteora on one side and Altair on the other. Sota steps in personally, becoming the "god of ink" and tilts the battle back in Meteora and Magane's favor. Nevertheless, the battle sees Magane and Meteora crippled or killed in a three way draw that ends in episode 22 and bookends with Sota sitting in the classroom we first saw him in in episode 1.


Another possible option is that Shimazaki categorically rejects Altair and takes her down herself, but I can't really see how that would play out within the span of two episodes.
firemagnetSep 3, 2017 8:00 PM
Sep 3, 2017 8:48 PM

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Mar 2013
60
GangsterCat said:

They keep saying that they foreshadowed alter altair in the crossover story that they are making, but it would be way better if there is a foreshadowing in the ACTUAL re:creators anime, with Souta as the creator. at least all those monotonous dialogues means SOMETHING instead of shitty padding, and it also give Souta ACTUAL role in this anime as the main character. since his role basically just telling everyone "altair creator is Shimazaki btw". lame as fuck, and even then his friends already found it about it anyway even before he told them lmao.

and they should've never created Magane to begin with, what a useless padding waste of time character.


When you put it that way, it actually sounds like a wasted potential. But, it was a fun-ride, this anime.
Sep 3, 2017 10:04 PM
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Aug 2017
14
firemagnet said:
Kuroko33 said:


Same here tbh
Altair FTW!


Altair has no chance of winning, but Setsuna might have a chance. If she is who we have been led to believe, and she's still burdened with all the rage, pain, and remorse that Altair described in episode 8, then she could well turn on Souta, in a scenario pictured in the lyrics of Sawano's "God of Ink" which describes the "the ink of god on the page, and her rage coming out."

Here are the three scenarios that I believe are most plausible for episode 21 given the information we, as the audience, have:

Vector 1 (as inspired by the lyrics from God of Ink): Sota's plan backfires, horribly, within the span of the next episode. After a brief reunion, during which the consciousness of the real Shimazaki--which Altair has been talking to since episode 6--is transferred into the body of Souta's Shimazaki, Altair and true Shimazaki break out of the cage for a showdown with Souta, Meteora, and Magane at Nissan stadium. Souta uses Magane's power once again, and defeats both Shimazaki and Altair with his own unique creation in a draw that happens directly in front of the audience. This battle destroys all creations, and closes out episode 22 with an epilogue that ties back in to the start of episode 1.

Vector 2: As she meets her creator, the goal she's always longed for, Altair ceases her revenge. In an event which takes up the first half of the episode, Altair is redeemed as a character through Shimazaki, and accepts her fate, abandoning her goal of destroying the universe. With Altair stripped of most of her powers thanks to "Shimazaki" reasserting creative rights, Magane moves her own plan into motion, using her powers and the considerable wealth she has collected to make an attempt at world domination and flip the equation between the creators and the created, "recreating" the world into what she sees fit. Sota, Shimazaki, Meteora, and Altair face off against Magane in a battle which concludes towards the end of the 22nd episode. Team Altair fights Magane to a draw which sees all of the remaining creations destroyed or otherwise forced to return to their worlds.

Vector 3: Despite being caught off guard initially, Altair eventually realizes that this Shimazaki is not hers, and reacts accordingly--though not before Shimazaki can strip her of most of her powers. No longer capable of using the Holopsicon to write the universe out of existence, Altair kills Souta's version of Shimazaki, and then breaches the cage, crippling Blitz, the last of the creations in order to do so. Altair makes a beeline for the stadium to deal with the ultimate target of her revenge, and the only one who would know what Shimazaki really looks like: Sota. Her arrival at towards the end of the battle sets up a final conflict between Magane and Meteora on one side and Altair on the other. Sota steps in personally, becoming the "god of ink" and tilts the battle back in Meteora and Magane's favor. Nevertheless, the battle sees Magane and Meteora crippled or killed in a three way draw that ends in episode 22 and bookends with Sota sitting in the classroom we first saw him in in episode 1.


Another possible option is that Shimazaki categorically rejects Altair and takes her down herself, but I can't really see how that would play out within the span of two episodes.
I think that Altair collects forces not to destroy the world, but in order to rewrite the history of the world in order to resurrect Setsuna. Previously, the world rejected the power of Altair, but if he does not reject it, then this is quite possible. Altair has no limits of ability until it is restricted.
Sep 3, 2017 10:04 PM

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Apr 2016
365
As we all expected souta's creation is setsuna
BRAWLERS
Sep 3, 2017 11:59 PM

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Jul 2016
183
firemagnet said:

Possibly the only character who might overpower her in a slugging match would be Homura as she appears in Madoka Magica the Movie: Rebellion or Accelerator from A Certain Magical Index. Actually, Accelerator would be a poor match, since she could just reverse his vectors on him by reversing cause and effect via the 16th(?) Movement.

SirKnight007 said:


...
Only this time, Altair's there and she finally meets her maker.
LITERALLY.


*slow clap*

Awesome reference-filled description there. I've held the position that Setsuna is there to prompt Altair's redemption as a character and as a villain; to make her completely abandon her goals because in the face of being able to see and save her creator (even if the whole thing is a lie) those goals no longer hold any meaning.

Of course, the whole thing could backfire massively, as there is the question of what happens if or when Altair realizes that this version of Setsuna is fake, not to mention that Altair was seen talking to the "real" Shimazaki Yuna in episode 6.



Not surprised by that reaction. Honestly, I was quite underwhelmed myself when I wrote that. After all, it's nothing compared to 'Beyblade Gilgamesh' which, I have to admit, is actually pretty accurate AND hilarious.

I'm surprised you even noticed my post. And yes, it backfiring could be neat. But remember, she never MET Setsuna. And real or not, she still wants to meet her. It's like your favorite singer coming back to life to sing for your funeral. It's fricking AMAZING!
ONWARDS! Away from homework and on to more anime!!!
Sep 4, 2017 12:20 AM
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Jul 2014
657
SirKnight007 said:
firemagnet said:

Possibly the only character who might overpower her in a slugging match would be Homura as she appears in Madoka Magica the Movie: Rebellion or Accelerator from A Certain Magical Index. Actually, Accelerator would be a poor match, since she could just reverse his vectors on him by reversing cause and effect via the 16th(?) Movement.



*slow clap*

Awesome reference-filled description there. I've held the position that Setsuna is there to prompt Altair's redemption as a character and as a villain; to make her completely abandon her goals because in the face of being able to see and save her creator (even if the whole thing is a lie) those goals no longer hold any meaning.

Of course, the whole thing could backfire massively, as there is the question of what happens if or when Altair realizes that this version of Setsuna is fake, not to mention that Altair was seen talking to the "real" Shimazaki Yuna in episode 6.



Not surprised by that reaction. Honestly, I was quite underwhelmed myself when I wrote that. After all, it's nothing compared to 'Beyblade Gilgamesh' which, I have to admit, is actually pretty accurate AND hilarious.

I'm surprised you even noticed my post. And yes, it backfiring could be neat. But remember, she never MET Setsuna. And real or not, she still wants to meet her. It's like your favorite singer coming back to life to sing for your funeral. It's fricking AMAZING!


In theory she never met her, but everything the audience (that's us) has been shown thus far makes it clear that Altair was fully aware of Shimazaki Yuna (Setsuna's real name) and all of her actions, right up until the point of her death. Otherwise she wouldn't recognize the train station.


Also you're seriously underselling yourself. That's one of the most poignant and moving novelizations of a scene and its intended emotional weight I've yet read, and I've done a lot of reading.
firemagnetSep 4, 2017 12:28 AM
Sep 4, 2017 12:32 AM
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Jul 2014
657
Debigll said:
firemagnet said:


Altair has no chance of winning, but Setsuna might have a chance. If she is who we have been led to believe, and she's still burdened with all the rage, pain, and remorse that Altair described in episode 8, then she could well turn on Souta, in a scenario pictured in the lyrics of Sawano's "God of Ink" which describes the "the ink of god on the page, and her rage coming out."

Here are the three scenarios that I believe are most plausible for episode 21 given the information we, as the audience, have:

Vector 1 (as inspired by the lyrics from God of Ink): Sota's plan backfires, horribly, within the span of the next episode. After a brief reunion, during which the consciousness of the real Shimazaki--which Altair has been talking to since episode 6--is transferred into the body of Souta's Shimazaki, Altair and true Shimazaki break out of the cage for a showdown with Souta, Meteora, and Magane at Nissan stadium. Souta uses Magane's power once again, and defeats both Shimazaki and Altair with his own unique creation in a draw that happens directly in front of the audience. This battle destroys all creations, and closes out episode 22 with an epilogue that ties back in to the start of episode 1.

Vector 2: As she meets her creator, the goal she's always longed for, Altair ceases her revenge. In an event which takes up the first half of the episode, Altair is redeemed as a character through Shimazaki, and accepts her fate, abandoning her goal of destroying the universe. With Altair stripped of most of her powers thanks to "Shimazaki" reasserting creative rights, Magane moves her own plan into motion, using her powers and the considerable wealth she has collected to make an attempt at world domination and flip the equation between the creators and the created, "recreating" the world into what she sees fit. Sota, Shimazaki, Meteora, and Altair face off against Magane in a battle which concludes towards the end of the 22nd episode. Team Altair fights Magane to a draw which sees all of the remaining creations destroyed or otherwise forced to return to their worlds.

Vector 3: Despite being caught off guard initially, Altair eventually realizes that this Shimazaki is not hers, and reacts accordingly--though not before Shimazaki can strip her of most of her powers. No longer capable of using the Holopsicon to write the universe out of existence, Altair kills Souta's version of Shimazaki, and then breaches the cage, crippling Blitz, the last of the creations in order to do so. Altair makes a beeline for the stadium to deal with the ultimate target of her revenge, and the only one who would know what Shimazaki really looks like: Sota. Her arrival at towards the end of the battle sets up a final conflict between Magane and Meteora on one side and Altair on the other. Sota steps in personally, becoming the "god of ink" and tilts the battle back in Meteora and Magane's favor. Nevertheless, the battle sees Magane and Meteora crippled or killed in a three way draw that ends in episode 22 and bookends with Sota sitting in the classroom we first saw him in in episode 1.


Another possible option is that Shimazaki categorically rejects Altair and takes her down herself, but I can't really see how that would play out within the span of two episodes.
I think that Altair collects forces not to destroy the world, but in order to rewrite the history of the world in order to resurrect Setsuna. Previously, the world rejected the power of Altair, but if he does not reject it, then this is quite possible. Altair has no limits of ability until it is restricted.


Nah, in episode 8 and again in episode 18 she was quite explicit about the "I'm going to take my revenge for my creator by destroying all of existence." Mamika even pointed out that Altair would be killed too, and Altair even responded that she was doing it of her own free will.
Sep 4, 2017 1:27 AM

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Oct 2008
13718
okay i expected that, since they don't have a choice anymore, they would go far as to destroy the plot so that Altair would see the truth and as well as all the viewers the suicidal act and the true reason for it...which makes Souta's cooperation with Magane really happened.
5/5.


Sep 4, 2017 2:11 AM
Shingster

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Jun 2015
4397
So Altair views this battle as a show that she's using to showcase her story then. Hikayu never ceases to amaze me at just how many weapons and techniques she actually has though. But truly Altair is really becoming OP though in being able to take Hikayu's ability like that. To think that Altair created a story that uses herself as the MC while the rest of the creations are just actors though. Its scary how far forward her plans are though. And now it looks like the fight is entering its final stages as both sides introduce new elements into the story. Despite the damage sustained its nice that Rui is still capable of fighting. So the escalation into the finals also revealed the existence of their secret weapon an entirely new character that resembles Altair. So Sirius's design is the last design that Setsuna created before her death then. No wonder Altair's reaction was so angry. Its surprising that Sirius is completely dominating Altair in their fight though. So the plan from the beginning was to force Altair on the back foot while escalating the battle and thus allowing Sirius to be unleashed then. Though Altair had plenty of surprises that cost us dearly it looks like the plan worked. But Matsubara must have complicated feelings at seeing the plan work though since Sirus was his creation.

Seems that Blitz has grown fond of this world though. Damm Altairs revival by possessing Sirius though was completely unexpected though. To think that she was able to do so because her personality was more developed than Sirius's and thus making the audience accept her more though. We really underestimated Altair's tenacity, intelligence and acceptance by the audience though thats for sure. In essence Altair is not someone that's linked to just one story so her abilities increase as she gets accepted more by the audience then. Emotions is a powerful thing and Altair is taking full advantage of it here. Altair sure has turned the tables on us though by first hijacking the story and then Sirius. Though if this was a story it will be true as Hikayu said that Altair would have already won. So it seems that in addition to Sirius they actually had in another plan in place too. To think that Souta ended up using Magane's power to bring this plan in though. So their final plan was bringing back Setsuna Altair's own creator eh. Man this episode sure was interesting and full of surprises. To think that Altair was able to hijack and foil each of their plans though. But arguably the most unexpected surprise was Setsuna's return.
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Sep 4, 2017 3:35 AM
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My only question is: what is the point of Altair? What does she represent in this series?
As the supposed focal point of the series, Altair is bland and underdeveloped. She is a disposable antagonist (or a really lousy protagonist, if you want to go that way) and brings nothing interesting to the table, despite initially unique premise. I left this episode with one thought in my head: after whole 20 episodes, both Sirius and Altair ended up having approximately the same amount of background and personality development. This is exacerbated by the attention given to Altair by the show. In a curious turn of events, the character that is supposed to be the most dynamic and internally conflicting because of her nature as a fan character is the most rigid of them all.
I am disappointed with the direction this show is going right now, more so because of the promising beginning. Am I missing something? If you like Altair, I would love to know why.
Sep 4, 2017 3:56 AM

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Dec 2015
15143
I think this is the first time that Altair gets cornered twice in a single episode xD well done!!
"At some point, I stopped hoping."
Sep 4, 2017 4:17 AM
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Jan 2017
192
ingvarfed said:
My only question is: what is the point of Altair? What does she represent in this series?

Knowing every single major character other than the most harmless ones like Hikayu and Rui have their haters and their lovers for a wide variety of reasons(Especially Alice, Magane and Meteora), I am not sure you will get the answer you want. For me she is emotional and enigmatic, a victim of her circumstances while she bangs her drum about free will, there is a lot to think about her. She's an extension of Setsuna who had no ill will against anything before her demise, which makes it hard to rationalize her and fun to speculate about.
Cour_VictorSep 4, 2017 4:59 AM
Sep 4, 2017 4:27 AM
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Dec 2016
9
The best episode of all, scenes, moments of tension, hax, hax and more hax (lol, the change history of the characters and nerf the stats), best design of character <3 i love sirius, i love <3 beat the fucking altair and later upgrade stats of altair :-: im the epyc end moment, im need more of this anime, 9.7/10 for this episode.
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Sep 4, 2017 5:56 AM

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Oct 2008
810
This will be good!

Sep 4, 2017 7:10 AM

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Sep 2010
237
Altair is just getting annoying - too overpowered to be interesting

Sep 4, 2017 2:23 PM

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Feb 2008
2099
She was bound to make an appearance, sooner or later. It ought to make matters a bit more interesting, particularly for Altair. Hopefully Shimazaki's appearance is sufficient to bring the story to a conclusion.
Sep 4, 2017 3:10 PM

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Dec 2011
116
I didn't really like this episode. I found it a little boring. Sirius was summoned from anywhere and she was absorded in least of 5 minutes so she was completly useless.
Setsuna is back, predicable but I just hope they will not make Altair loose her faith in her plan, cry and stop everything just because Setsuna is here.

But I think Setsuna can weaken Altair and make her loose her power a litlle by little if she reveal that she isn't the creator of Altair

"It wasn't me who create you"


Raikiri29Sep 4, 2017 3:14 PM
Sep 5, 2017 7:35 AM
The Shrike

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Nov 2009
11582
Boring episode. Quasi omnipotent characters and the endless expository dialogue are not a recipe for fine entertainment.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

Sep 5, 2017 7:54 AM

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4852
that was a good episode but they fucked it with Altair's creator appearing
Sep 5, 2017 9:36 AM
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Aug 2016
197
Please don't make the ending cheesy. Well there are 2 episodes and series managed to be somewhat unpredictable so I just hope.
Sep 5, 2017 10:27 AM
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ingvarfed said:
My only question is: what is the point of Altair? What does she represent in this series?

Altair represented, until now, is a manifestation of Wrath, vengeance, even retribution if you find her reasons justified. She came to existence after a genuinely decent artist, Shimazaki Setsuna, was "denied by the world" - injustice was done to her. She was envied, slandered, humiliated and, ultimately, lost her life. Altair was born in the moment Shimazaki died. Shimazaki was not evil, did not indulge in sins and became popular due to her talent and hardworking. Moreover, I believe Shimazaki's self, her despair and anguish, to have actually become a wrath, manifested in Altair. Shimazaki Setsuna is neither a fiction nor a constant. She is a variable, happening yesterday and tomorrow, all over the world, in different forms and under different premises, but ultimately the cause and consequence remain the same.
So, Altair is here to avenge her dear friend. Avenge her because of malice, injustice and wrong done to her. She intends to destroy the world. Will she do so? No. She is the cause of the irresponsibility (which is claimed throughout the series by both the creators and those entertained), the imperfection of the world, our, "real" world. Irresponsibility invoked this crisis in the form of Altair, she is the messenger. While she might not be the last, her message is quite clear to those involved, to some "entertained" ever (some of whom are we). And unless the people, the reality humanity inhabits becomes a "better place", who knows, someday somewhere the world might actually end.
If we take a quick look at the setting itself, why did it happen just now? In Japan? Out of nowhere? One might conclude, that the world itself simply got fed up with this. And so, Altair came forth. Welcome your Alpha and Omega.
Re:formed
Sep 5, 2017 2:11 PM
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657
Daniel_Naumov said:
ingvarfed said:
My only question is: what is the point of Altair? What does she represent in this series?

Altair represented, until now, is a manifestation of Wrath, vengeance, even retribution if you find her reasons justified. She came to existence after a genuinely decent artist, Shimazaki Setsuna, was "denied by the world" - injustice was done to her. She was envied, slandered, humiliated and, ultimately, lost her life. Altair was born in the moment Shimazaki died. Shimazaki was not evil, did not indulge in sins and became popular due to her talent and hardworking. Moreover, I believe Shimazaki's self, her despair and anguish, to have actually become a wrath, manifested in Altair. Shimazaki Setsuna is neither a fiction nor a constant. She is a variable, happening yesterday and tomorrow, all over the world, in different forms and under different premises, but ultimately the cause and consequence remain the same.
So, Altair is here to avenge her dear friend. Avenge her because of malice, injustice and wrong done to her. She intends to destroy the world. Will she do so? No. She is the cause of the irresponsibility (which is claimed throughout the series by both the creators and those entertained), the imperfection of the world, our, "real" world. Irresponsibility invoked this crisis in the form of Altair, she is the messenger. While she might not be the last, her message is quite clear to those involved, to some "entertained" ever (some of whom are we). And unless the people, the reality humanity inhabits becomes a "better place", who knows, someday somewhere the world might actually end.
If we take a quick look at the setting itself, why did it happen just now? In Japan? Out of nowhere? One might conclude, that the world itself simply got fed up with this. And so, Altair came forth. Welcome your Alpha and Omega.


What do you believe will happen next?

My understanding of such narratives suggests that Altair, as the tragic anti-villain, will either be "betrayed" by Setsuna, and try to kill her, or that Altair will be "redeemed" by Setsuna, and play a role in taking down Magane, who still has her own plans.
Sep 5, 2017 8:03 PM
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Episode 21 preview

dmrSep 7, 2017 9:36 AM
Sep 5, 2017 9:21 PM

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dmr said:
Episode 21 preview

I want Altair kill that fake Setsuna
Sep 5, 2017 9:31 PM

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So ummm... I feel Altair gets more and more unfair and broken with every new ability she suddenly gains... and quite literally every line she utters... And I definitely wasn't expecting so many characters to fall in this battle, which is honestly quite a pleasant surprise... And it is here that things suddenly got heavy for me because I just realized how HARD this anime read me. Read like a freaking book.

I realize now that I'm the reason Altair is so powerful (and people similar to me I guess)... because just a couple of episodes ago I had hoped for more deaths and struggle, and I had hoped that this wouldn't be a simple "power of friendship triumphs over evil" type of story. I wanted a surprise or a twist that I'm not used, and I wanted more hardship for the heroes to face, and that's exactly what I got this episode. This is exactly what I wanted to see from this anime. Also hurray for last second Magane!
A Wild and Small Otaku has Appeared!
Sep 5, 2017 10:46 PM
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dmr said:
Episode 21 preview




Sota's words here are roughly "I don't understand you. Though I may not need to. We were near and your need was certain. Next Time: 'The World is for Us': host to a miracle, a story to echo among stories."



I'm reminded of Blitz's words to her in episode 15: "You're weak in a way that Aliceteria and the others can't see; so fragile that you'd disintegrate if touched. You were born weak, and you were meant to defend the weak, to give them strength even if only for a moment. But you can't save anyone and you aren't interested in doing so anyway. Like a kingdom made to be destroyed."


This is Altair's tragedy; there is no hate in her eyes anymore. No anger, no jealousy, no regret.

With her beloved before her, the only thing Altair can think of is how to save her. The soldier of oblivion, clad in regal vestments colored black, red and gold, knows what's coming: she's replayed this scene over and over in her head, screaming in impotent rage at her failure to save the person who gave her life, who cherished and nurtured her, even while the boy her creator loved coldly turned his back. Bound by the border between fiction and reality, she was powerless to do anything. Now, she has a chance to make everything right. Nothing matters, not her hate, nor the world that shunned her beloved--not even her sworn enemies and the allies who turned against her--so long as she can save this one unexceptional girl.

She calls out, but her beloved does not respond. Though Setsuna Shimazaki's grey eyes reflect the world just as the eyes of any living person would, Altair's beloved is seemingly deaf to everyone around her. As all the other parties present freeze, unsure of themselves, Setsuna slowly shuffles towards the edge of the platform. The only sounds to be heard are the small squeaking noises that Setsuna's black loafers make as they scuff and scrape upon the surface of the platform. Again, Altair calls out to her beloved, and again she gets no response.

Then fate makes itself heard, its wretched cry the sound of an air-horn that would otherwise be celebrated by the travelers who would ordinarily be gathered here. The sound galvanizes Altair into action. She knows her own strength; she's used it to cut down all who stood in her way and it put her upon the threshold of victory. She has no reason to doubt it now. So she jumps into midair, summoning her holopsicon and unleashing its sonorous fury at the oncoming mass of metal that would make an end of her beloved.

The sound of the holopsicon is overwhelming, like ringing glass and tearing earth all at once; with it comes a wall of pure force that would find peers only among the most powerful storms on Earth. Wind with the strength of a hurricane rips through the rest of the assembled creations, tearing at their clothes and forcing them to to seek shelter as gravel and small chunks of concrete are thrown in all directions with enough strength to break glass and dent metal; the sheet metal roof of the train station shrieks in protest like a dying animal. Fate's metal monster plows forward completely undeterred by the forces unleashed against it. Amid all the sound and fury, Setsuna plods forward, curiously unaffected. She's three quarters of the way down the platform now, and here she makes an abrupt left turn, beelining towards the edge of the platform, and tipping herself ever so slowly over the edge. Gravity claims her as the train barrels through the station. Altair, her face etched with raw terror, makes a lunge for her creator as fast as her powers will allow.

Hand and arm outstretched, she grasps desperately for Setsuna's right arm as the girl begins to fall. Inches, then centimeters...millimeters. Altair physically wills herself forward; her gloved hand just brushes Setsuna's right arm, caressing the skin and conforming to it...


Then...
Sep 5, 2017 11:49 PM
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I love you @firemagnet.
Sep 6, 2017 1:43 AM
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Yeah, I watched the trailer ten times, then timed it to the scene and music, filling in the gaps. You gave us "Beyblade Gilgamesh." @sirknight007 gave us that stunning rendering of episode 20's closing scene. I thought I might as well try my own hand.

Initially, I thought Setsuna was going to bite the dust and I was going to write in the aftermath. Then I listened to what Souta was saying, making my best attempt at translating it, and looked at the Japanese and english episode titles.

This is Altair's tragedy. It's also her redemption. She will earn her miracle and save Setsuna. That I can almost guarantee. The aftermath if Altair fails to save Setsuna that I wrote is below, and is speculative fiction written purely for imaginative purposes and the "oh sh!t" factor.





firemagnetSep 6, 2017 2:13 AM
Sep 6, 2017 7:02 AM

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Buwahahah.

But I'm preparing for disappointment.
I was hoping for a text from Magane.
Sep 6, 2017 10:43 AM
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aeroperf said:
Buwahahah.

But I'm preparing for disappointment.
I was hoping for a text from Magane.


Even if Altair goes full hero mode, I'll be satisfied. This was a long time coming. There's a few important questions that episode 21 will ask relating to heroism; in a story is it natural, or is it a product of the situation and circumstance?. How well does that mesh in a story? etc.

Remember, aeroperf, that while Re:Creators has had good action for the past three episodes, the anime isn't fundamentally about it. It's a story to examine the way stories are told through the lens of pitting heroes against heroes.


Sep 6, 2017 3:41 PM

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“It's a story to examine the way stories are told through the lens of pitting heroes against heroes.”
I disagree. I think it is a story about the Creators themselves. The creations are just there to enable them to point out the process of creation (or render some tidbit to move things along).

I keep bringing up Magane’s creator. Booze and pills all over the apartment. Magane didn’t kill him – her style is blood. He hung himself in a fit of depression. He pulled a “Hemmingway” if you will, pointing out that sometimes Creators despair and do that.
Magane was used only to transport the scene. But the scene was about the Creator.

Until the birdcage, Creators were personally involved in almost every important scene. Even the action scenes. Rui taking Sota on the trip, Matsubara getting approval to save Selesia, etc. Sure there were other bits - Mamika and Aliceteria's conversations, Altair and Blitz - but they could have been dropped with no effect to the main thrust of the story.

So… in the birdcage there are NO Creators. Even Shimazaki is a creation.
If Altair is redeemed and the entire plot is resolved by creations alone, without the DIRECT INPUT of a Creator, I will be VERY disappointed.

The birdcage HAS to collapse to let the Creators have direct influence again. Meteora's spells are done. And Magane is outside the birdcage with Sota’s cell phone number.

And I'm not badmouthing the creations' discussions about the nature of heroism. Mamika is my favorite tragic heroine character of all time. But in the end it is not about heroism discussions. It is about the Creators.

I really did enjoy your Spoiler, though.
aeroperfSep 6, 2017 4:12 PM
Sep 6, 2017 5:46 PM
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aeroperf said:
“It's a story to examine the way stories are told through the lens of pitting heroes against heroes.”
I disagree. I think it is a story about the Creators themselves. The creations are just there to enable them to point out the process of creation (or render some tidbit to move things along).

I keep bringing up Magane’s creator. Booze and pills all over the apartment. Magane didn’t kill him – her style is blood. He hung himself in a fit of depression. He pulled a “Hemmingway” if you will, pointing out that sometimes Creators despair and do that.
Magane was used only to transport the scene. But the scene was about the Creator.

Until the birdcage, Creators were personally involved in almost every important scene. Even the action scenes. Rui taking Sota on the trip, Matsubara getting approval to save Selesia, etc. Sure there were other bits - Mamika and Aliceteria's conversations, Altair and Blitz - but they could have been dropped with no effect to the main thrust of the story.

So… in the birdcage there are NO Creators. Even Shimazaki is a creation.
If Altair is redeemed and the entire plot is resolved by creations alone, without the DIRECT INPUT of a Creator, I will be VERY disappointed.

The birdcage HAS to collapse to let the Creators have direct influence again. Meteora's spells are done. And Magane is outside the birdcage with Sota’s cell phone number.

And I'm not badmouthing the creations' discussions about the nature of heroism. Mamika is my favorite tragic heroine character of all time. But in the end it is not about heroism discussions. It is about the Creators.


You have very good points, and for what it's worth, upon consideration I can see why you see it that way, and largely agree. The two are not mutually exclusive, though, just as Altair being able to "save Setsuna" and "breaking out of the bird-cage" are not mutually exclusive.

I'm probably missing the forest for the trees, however.

First, though, a note about the upcoming plot:

Episode 1 reveals it all, really. Consider what Souta says at the beginning:

"I might be you. Or I might not be you. I'm sure I'm somewhere close to you, though. "My dear sibling." If I were use her words, that's how I'd explain it....I think that she was the main character. That is, if the main character is what you call the person at the center of events."


In Japanese, "my dear sibling" is "waga itoshiki kyoudai." The only person who speaks in formal Japanese like that within the show is Altair. That Souta reflects positively upon her means that, in the end, she redeems herself by saving Setsuna and allowing Souta to use her act as an apology to both her and Setsuna. This automatically means that something must happen to involve Magane, who is, as you noted, remains outside of the story.

Magane's plan all along was to further her own goals by aiding Sota, with the final intent of breaking Altair and therein removing the only real barrier to her own goal of world conquest. With the barriers between fiction and reality so porous, all Magane really needs to do is tell the ultimate lie, that she is "the queen of the world" or some-such. All it takes is for one idiot to call "bullshit!" within earshot and all of reality will warp to her will.



Moving along:


So… in the birdcage there are NO Creators. Even Shimazaki is a creation.
If Altair is redeemed and the entire plot is resolved by creations alone, without the DIRECT INPUT of a Creator, I will be VERY disappointed.

The birdcage HAS to collapse to let the Creators have direct influence again. Meteora's spells are done. And Magane is outside the birdcage with Sota’s cell phone number.
...in the end it is not about heroism discussions. It is about the Creators.



This actually required some consideration on my part (my head still hurts from thinking about it). I've been turning what you wrote over in my head for an hour now. I can see why you would say that, but I fundamentally disagree with it. I don't think that there are no creators within the birdcage, since this story isn't just about the Creators themselves, if we define a "creator" as the original author. The series also asks fundamental questions about the process of creation: who really does it, to what extent the audience participates, how this affects the process of creation, and how the story is ultimately told. Is there a right way to do it? To what extent do the characters themselves make the story? Also, what do we mean by "direct" participation?

The birdcage is actually a great example of this. The "creators" set up the story, to be sure. Months of preparation take place. From then on, however, it can be argued that the audience are the creators, their "acceptance" influencing the outcome. What's more, the "creators" still influence the story; How is the introduction of Sirius and Setsuna not direct influence? The characters and audience are left to flesh out the story, but the introduction of Sirius and, more obviously, Setsuna, have had dramatic effect on the outcome of the story. Sirius signaled the beginning of a shift in the battle, a piece introduced to the battle directly by the creators themselves. It was left to the audience as to whether or not that would work. Setsuna's introduction was a paradigm shift in both the tone and outcome. First off, the decision was Souta's as a creator and storyteller, using Meteora and Magane as the medium. In doing so, he has completely foiled Altair's gambit, and now forces her to make a choice between pursuing her revenge or saving her own creator. In that sense, he is forcing a resolution as well as making an apology to both Setsuna and Altair. No matter what happens now, Altair acts entirely within the choices given to her by Souta.

From the preview, we know what choice she makes. All that's left is the aftermath, which the creators will be in firm control of; Altair has been given a reason to protect the world rather than destroy it. She'll lose some acceptance because of that, but the obvious trajectory now places her firmly on the side of the creators. To quote Matsubara: "If we can't kill you, we'll change you." From then on, it becomes team Creators vs whatever hat-trick Magane pulls with her own reality warping. Nevertheless, it remains obvious that because of the direct influence of the creators, Altair is now a main character firmly in the camp of the creators, just as was intended.



This post brought to you by Starbucks(r) white-chocolate mocha and Hiroyuki Sawano's Wild War Dance.
Sep 8, 2017 9:53 AM
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Well... skipped about half the episode. I didn't predict Sirius, but I sure as hell predicted Shimazaki's return. Not one character has redeemed themself yet, and by far the least boring character is Mamika.

Let's get to that ending.
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Sep 8, 2017 3:40 PM
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http://recreators.tv/special/weekly/weekly_22.html




Wonder what happens. Souta looks betrayed; his entire face asks the question "why?"
Sep 9, 2017 5:36 AM
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Lelouch0202 said:

Action and Soundtrack were pretty awesome this episode, the blue and pink balls clashing reminded me of the first Pokemon movie. XD


Seriously, they had amazing background music. Not only on this episode but on the previous episodes as well.
Sep 9, 2017 3:11 PM

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It took this long to make real use of the dead girl. I wonder if they will replay the past (watch her jump) or have her character try to stop Altair.

Thanks for giving Altair new clothes, Sirius. It was pretty obvious the "copy" would be the one to get absorbed. It was a flashy spectacle though.
Sep 10, 2017 6:52 AM

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HOLYSHIT. I Knew it.

Sep 11, 2017 10:45 AM
🥊 CHAMPION 🥊

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Wow, two new character appeared in this final battle, the first one was innecesary, but this second was the Altair creator!!! kekeke
Sep 17, 2017 12:48 AM

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That's exactly the character I thought it'd be.
Altair was defeated twice momentarily.
Alright episode.
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