World Trigger Chapter 142 Discussion

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Oct 2015

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Amorim92 said:
...

Wellcome

Bandibulle said:
...

I agree

Chung2 said:
Exactly. He is way too experienced to fall for a last resort move like that even if he did underestimate Zaki a lot and went wide open. If Yuma did bail out next chapter, it's major meh writing on the mangaka's part.

In my opinion, If Yuma falls down, T-2 can say bye-bye to go in a neighborhood expedition, because Osamu and Chika don't have the capacity to make the enough points (Ashihara has been too clear in this point). Without these points, T-2 would need to massacre High B-teams, and this seems me impossible even if Hyuse joins with T-2

May 5, 2016 7:05 AM

#52

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OneCommentary said:

In my opinion, If Yuma falls down, T-2 can say bye-bye to go in a neighborhood expedition, because Osamu and Chika don't have the capacity to make the enough points (Ashihara has been too clear in this point). Without these points, T-2 would need to massacre High B-teams, and this seems me impossible even if Hyuse joins with T-2

If they lose, then yes. IIRC they needed to win both this and the next matches to have a chance at A-rank.

May 5, 2016 7:13 AM

#53

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If it's just Osamu and Chika vs Katori Squad then they might still have a chance of winning. But Yuma needs to use his remaining strength to stop Teruya for that to happen.

May 5, 2016 7:15 AM

#54

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Chung2 said:

kisami said:
as a contest tactic, that was a desperate move. but in real combat, it is meaningless if you die in the process of taking down your enemy. sure he took down yuma but now his team is without him even if yuma is a valuable team member. if nothing else, it will force the other two to rely less on yuma but in real combat, it would a bad move to sacrifice yourself like that.

He did not take down Yuma. Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Yuma has bailed out already???

Bandibulle said:
Well, I am dissatisfied with that turn of events, like many of you, and because of what Yuma has shown so far.

I’m waiting for the next chapter, because I can’t believe it.
It would have been something like Sasamori’s “chameleon hug” or Murakami’s “thruster-in-your-face-full-with-blowing-meteora”, then why not? But this… is just too simple.

Exactly. He is way too experienced to fall for a last resort move like that even if he did underestimate Zaki a lot and went wide open. If Yuma did bail out next chapter, it's major meh writing on the mangaka's part.

God, I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this. You guys are treating this like it's a numbers game, it's not. Calculating experience and skill may give you a good estimate but it's not an exact science.

Also, Yuma didn't get "fooled". Kakizaki didn't lure him in. He made a reckless move on the spur of the moment. You guys don't understand how he was able to do it, but he has been able to shield MOST of Yuma's attack so far (or he would be dead already), so it's not much of a strech to grab him instead of putting up a shield (in both case you have succesfully anticipated the ennemy's move).

Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

May 5, 2016 7:18 AM

#55

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Dues-aj said:
If it's just Osamu and Chika vs Katori Squad then they might still have a chance of winning. But Yuma needs to use his remaining strength to stop Teruya for that to happen.

Winning? They might be able to survive but I can't see a world where they could actually defeat them. Unless Chika decides to shoot real bullets at people, of course.

May 5, 2016 7:24 AM

#56

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LuzNight said:

Dues-aj said:
If it's just Osamu and Chika vs Katori Squad then they might still have a chance of winning. But Yuma needs to use his remaining strength to stop Teruya for that to happen.

Winning? They might be able to survive but I can't see a world where they could actually defeat them. Unless Chika decides to shoot real bullets at people, of course.

Well it isn't likely, but Osamu's style of fighting right here does give him an advantage over Katori psychologically. She's impatient and rash which has already cost her leg and if she were to continue making bad decisions then it might be possible to wear them down.

May 5, 2016 10:00 AM

#57

Botato

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Nov 2013

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LuzNight said:
Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

I don't disagree with you but those two cases kind of don't count.

With Murakami he had Chika's help and with Viza he used a trick that won't work a second time, and it only worked because Viza had no way of ever expecting Yuma's situation. Like, the only ways I can think of Viza could have expected it are if he had Jin's SE or if he was a God.

That said I think we should wait till next chapter and see how it will all go down, as someone said earlier it could just be a similar injury to the one he got from Hokari in round 2.

May 5, 2016 10:11 AM

#58

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LuzNight said:

Chung2 said:

He did not take down Yuma. Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Yuma has bailed out already???

Exactly. He is way too experienced to fall for a last resort move like that even if he did underestimate Zaki a lot and went wide open. If Yuma did bail out next chapter, it's major meh writing on the mangaka's part.

God, I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this. You guys are treating this like it's a numbers game, it's not. Calculating experience and skill may give you a good estimate but it's not an exact science.

Also, Yuma didn't get "fooled". Kakizaki didn't lure him in. He made a reckless move on the spur of the moment. You guys don't understand how he was able to do it, but he has been able to shield MOST of Yuma's attack so far (or he would be dead already), so it's not much of a strech to grab him instead of putting up a shield (in both case you have succesfully anticipated the ennemy's move).

Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

1. With Murakami he used his surrounding to make up for lack of experience (Murakami's side effect gives him extreme amount of experience). He had a clear plan on how to counter him. He knew he couldn't beat Murakami on ground so he threw both of them underwater and used the light weight & the ability of a scorpion trigger to shape into anything to win.

2. Against Visa, Visa was NOT taking Yuma seriously from the beginning. Visa was playing with him similarly to how Jin was just playing with Hyuse just to stall him. Also, Visa HAD NO WAY of knowing that Yuma's regular body was a trion body, which is why he lost. Yuma took that gambit. Which will NEVER work again.

And I NEVER said Yuma never went recklessly at Zaki, go back and read please. I mentioned that Yuma underestimated Zaki and went wide open, which is why he got countered. I said it's gonna be meh writing because Yuma is supposed to be a seasoned fighter but he acted like Osamu would.

C2FlashMay 5, 2016 10:45 AM

May 5, 2016 10:33 AM

#59

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LuzNight said:

Chung2 said:

He did not take down Yuma. Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Yuma has bailed out already???

Exactly. He is way too experienced to fall for a last resort move like that even if he did underestimate Zaki a lot and went wide open. If Yuma did bail out next chapter, it's major meh writing on the mangaka's part.

God, I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this. You guys are treating this like it's a numbers game, it's not. Calculating experience and skill may give you a good estimate but it's not an exact science.

Also, Yuma didn't get "fooled". Kakizaki didn't lure him in. He made a reckless move on the spur of the moment. You guys don't understand how he was able to do it, but he has been able to shield MOST of Yuma's attack so far (or he would be dead already), so it's not much of a strech to grab him instead of putting up a shield (in both case you have succesfully anticipated the ennemy's move).

Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

In my opinion, the problem is not why Yuma is damaged, but how Yuma is damaged. In the combat Yuma vs Viza, Yuma surprised Viza with his double trion body. In Yuma vs Murakami, Yuma toke down Murakami making an unexpected scenary... In the face to face Yuma Kakizki, Yuma dodn't react in the few seconds while Kakizaki was talking. And it is different than Kitora vs Yoneda, because Yoneda moved himself and Kitoria, making kitora couldn't kill him.

Well, I don't belive Yuma is finished yet. If Ashihara wants to kill Yuma, then he draw a more serious injury.

LuzNight said:

Dues-aj said:
If it's just Osamu and Chika vs Katori Squad then they might still have a chance of winning. But Yuma needs to use his remaining strength to stop Teruya for that to happen.

Winning? They might be able to survive but I can't see a world where they could actually defeat them. Unless Chika decides to shoot real bullets at people, of course.

I agree with LuzNight. Osamu is only gain time, but I think it is imposible for him to take down a whole teams by himself although Chika helps him. In fact, Ashahira has been too clear about the Osamu's combat hability in all the history

May 5, 2016 10:48 AM

#60

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Apr 2013

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Dues-aj said:

LuzNight said:

Winning? They might be able to survive but I can't see a world where they could actually defeat them. Unless Chika decides to shoot real bullets at people, of course.

Well it isn't likely, but Osamu's style of fighting right here does give him an advantage over Katori psychologically. She's impatient and rash which has already cost her leg and if she were to continue making bad decisions then it might be possible to wear them down.

I doubt that. It's going way too easy for Osamu as well. And since Ashihara has never been lenient on Osamu (poor him, sometimes it feels like Ashihara pulls all his frustrations in his character XD), I doubt Osamu will get a breakthrough here LOL

May 5, 2016 10:51 AM

#61

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Chung2 said:

OneCommentary said:

In my opinion, If Yuma falls down, T-2 can say bye-bye to go in a neighborhood expedition, because Osamu and Chika don't have the capacity to make the enough points (Ashihara has been too clear in this point). Without these points, T-2 would need to massacre High B-teams, and this seems me impossible even if Hyuse joins with T-2

If they lose, then yes. IIRC they needed to win both this and the next matches to have a chance at A-rank.

It is only a question of numbers. If Yuma is eliminated now, is very probably that nobody can gain survival points because T-2 don't have the capacity to make enough kills without Yuma... And B-2 team is has now 7 points more than T-2. If B-2 can take their points normally in their next two matches (+6), T-2 will need around 14 points for surpass them. This means 10-12 points in the last match. And this means t-2 would have to eliminate whole high B-teams.
Sorry, I can't imagine this, although Hyuse joins T-2

Chung2 said:
I doubt that. It's going way too easy for Osamu as well. And since Ashihara has never been lenient on Osamu (poor him, sometimes it feels like Ashihara pulls all his frustrations in his character XD), I doubt Osamu will get a breakthrough here LOL

I agree. XD

OneCommentaryMay 5, 2016 11:03 AM

May 5, 2016 11:19 AM

#62

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912

Chung2 said:
I doubt that. It's going way too easy for Osamu as well. And since Ashihara has never been lenient on Osamu (poor him, sometimes it feels like Ashihara pulls all his frustrations in his character XD), I doubt Osamu will get a breakthrough here LOL

I don't know, this match seems like the perfect opportunity for Osamu to have somewhat of a light breakthrough especially with all the "secret mechanism" talk. If he were able to set up chika to get enough leads into them then I see him being able to kill one or two. Then again this could all lead to them losing and Hyuse realizing that their team's strategy is missing another strong person an believes it could work.

May 5, 2016 11:38 AM

#63

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Dec 2015

313

Chung2 said:

LuzNight said:

God, I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this. You guys are treating this like it's a numbers game, it's not. Calculating experience and skill may give you a good estimate but it's not an exact science.

Also, Yuma didn't get "fooled". Kakizaki didn't lure him in. He made a reckless move on the spur of the moment. You guys don't understand how he was able to do it, but he has been able to shield MOST of Yuma's attack so far (or he would be dead already), so it's not much of a strech to grab him instead of putting up a shield (in both case you have succesfully anticipated the ennemy's move).

Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

1. With Murakami he used his surrounding to make up for lack of experience (Murakami's side effect gives him extreme amount of experience). He had a clear plan on how to counter him. He knew he couldn't beat Murakami on ground so he threw both of them underwater and used the light weight & the ability of a scorpion trigger to shape into anything to win.

2. Against Visa, Visa was NOT taking Yuma seriously from the beginning. Visa was playing with him similarly to how Jin was just playing with Hyuse just to stall him. Also, Visa HAD NO WAY of knowing that Yuma's regular body was a trion body, which is why he lost. Yuma took that gambit. Which will NEVER work again.

And I NEVER said Yuma never went recklessly at Zaki, go back and read please. I mentioned that Yuma underestimated Zaki and went wide open, which is why he got countered. I said it's gonna be meh writing because Yuma is supposed to be a seasoned fighter but he acted like Osamu would.

Thank you for making my point and your bias clear :)

All of those "explanations" you have for Murakami and Viza are nothing but excuses.

He used his surroundings against Murakami blah blah blah that doesn't change anything to the fact that he defeated a stronger opponent and in this case he even survived which makes it even more "unbelivable/impressive" than what Kakizaki did this time.

He used a tactic against Viza that would NEVER work again blah blah blah. Same could be said about Kakizaki making that move, if you want to play that game, because people will have seen it. Actually any move is a one-use move when you win against some talented because they will never fall to the same move twice because that's part of having talent. Of course Viza had no way of knowing Yuma had two trion bodies but that's not an excuse. Viza could have anticipated something with a similar effect. There are thousands of worlds and dimensions in that universe, all with different triggers, and surely some of them could have had a similar effect or be used for a similar strategy. For example, Wen from Galopoola had a smokescreen and an illusion making trigger that could've have faked a death the same way Yuma "died" to give the illusion he was now harmless. It's obviously a shaky example but it still makes the point that something else might've been anticipated. Unless god comes down from the sky, there isn't an acceptable reason for loosing because you didn't expect that to happen. It can be understood and forgiven but there is no excuse or special circumstances.

Finally, I'm not sure what you think you read but my "reckless move" comment was about Kakizaki not Yuma. Yuma was a little careless and Kakizaki was a lot reckless. It was out of character for Zaki and that's why it worked. Nothing shady, nothing unbelievable. Just a low for Yuma. It happens and that is what makes it good writing not meh.

May 5, 2016 12:43 PM

#64

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Mar 2016

139

LuzNight said:

Chung2 said:

LuzNight said:

Chung2 said:

kisami said:
as a contest tactic, that was a desperate move. but in real combat, it is meaningless if you die in the process of taking down your enemy. sure he took down yuma but now his team is without him even if yuma is a valuable team member. if nothing else, it will force the other two to rely less on yuma but in real combat, it would a bad move to sacrifice yourself like that.

He did not take down Yuma. Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Yuma has bailed out already???

Bandibulle said:
Well, I am dissatisfied with that turn of events, like many of you, and because of what Yuma has shown so far.

I’m waiting for the next chapter, because I can’t believe it.
It would have been something like Sasamori’s “chameleon hug” or Murakami’s “thruster-in-your-face-full-with-blowing-meteora”, then why not? But this… is just too simple.

Exactly. He is way too experienced to fall for a last resort move like that even if he did underestimate Zaki a lot and went wide open. If Yuma did bail out next chapter, it's major meh writing on the mangaka's part.

God, I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this. You guys are treating this like it's a numbers game, it's not. Calculating experience and skill may give you a good estimate but it's not an exact science.

Also, Yuma didn't get "fooled". Kakizaki didn't lure him in. He made a reckless move on the spur of the moment. You guys don't understand how he was able to do it, but he has been able to shield MOST of Yuma's attack so far (or he would be dead already), so it's not much of a strech to grab him instead of putting up a shield (in both case you have succesfully anticipated the ennemy's move).

Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

1. With Murakami he used his surrounding to make up for lack of experience (Murakami's side effect gives him extreme amount of experience). He had a clear plan on how to counter him. He knew he couldn't beat Murakami on ground so he threw both of them underwater and used the light weight & the ability of a scorpion trigger to shape into anything to win.

2. Against Visa, Visa was NOT taking Yuma seriously from the beginning. Visa was playing with him similarly to how Jin was just playing with Hyuse just to stall him. Also, Visa HAD NO WAY of knowing that Yuma's regular body was a trion body, which is why he lost. Yuma took that gambit. Which will NEVER work again.

And I NEVER said Yuma never went recklessly at Zaki, go back and read please. I mentioned that Yuma underestimated Zaki and went wide open, which is why he got countered. I said it's gonna be meh writing because Yuma is supposed to be a seasoned fighter but he acted like Osamu would.

Thank you for making my point and your bias clear :)

All of those "explanations" you have for Murakami and Viza are nothing but excuses.

He used his surroundings against Murakami blah blah blah that doesn't change anything to the fact that he defeated a stronger opponent and in this case he even survived which makes it even more "unbelivable/impressive" than what Kakizaki did this time.

He used a tactic against Viza that would NEVER work again blah blah blah. Same could be said about Kakizaki making that move, if you want to play that game, because people will have seen it. Actually any move is a one-use move when you win against some talented because they will never fall to the same move twice because that's part of having talent. Of course Viza had no way of knowing Yuma had two trion bodies but that's not an excuse. Viza could have anticipated something with a similar effect. There are thousands of worlds and dimensions in that universe, all with different triggers, and surely some of them could have had a similar effect or be used for a similar strategy. For example, Wen from Galopoola had a smokescreen and an illusion making trigger that could've have faked a death the same way Yuma "died" to give the illusion he was now harmless. It's obviously a shaky example but it still makes the point that something else might've been anticipated. Unless god comes down from the sky, there isn't an acceptable reason for loosing because you didn't expect that to happen. It can be understood and forgiven but there is no excuse or special circumstances.

Finally, I'm not sure what you think you read but my "reckless move" comment was about Kakizaki not Yuma. Yuma was a little careless and Kakizaki was a lot reckless. It was out of character for Zaki and that's why it worked. Nothing shady, nothing unbelievable. Just a low for Yuma. It happens and that is what makes it good writing not meh.

@LuzNight - Don't get me wrong but, sometimes, you seem to be a little bit arrogant when talking with us. But it's just an observation, no prob at all.
---

Yeah, I'm with @Botato and the others although I don't disagree your POV at all, but Yuma's case (with Ko and Viza) was something more (elaborated[?]) than his situation with Kakizaki.

Back to Ko and Viza's situation: What I can see is that Ko's SE is more a "memorize" thing (Although he still learns) but he also needs to put this into practice, and it was what happened with him and Yuma. Yuma had Chika's help and also, the water scenario was something unusual to Ko (IMO he and Yuma are equal, not Ko being stronger - His SE is like a cheat but, in the other hand, Yuma is kind of a prodigy), so, that fight was something elaborated. Like Viza's battle; I don't need to explain cause you guys got it in previous commentaries - about the "other worlds, dimension and etc" thing: What are the odds? This is relative, pal. There were many elements envolved in their battle; we can't judge by something like Wen's fight.

Here, something interesting:

For me, the problem isn't in Zaki grabbing Yuma's arm, but Yuma leaving an opening to Zaki counter-attack; that, for me, was something reckless/careless. Maybe, because Yuma was overconfident. So, maybe, that is problem, that is the difference between the battles. Honestly, I don't mind if he survives and still fight (My opinion is: I don't liked the turn of events [Yuma had everything in his hands], but I don't have problems with that). I stay with the ones who said that maybe he will have some time before bailling out.

--
Welcome @amorim92 I have a friend with that surname.

KenboyMay 5, 2016 1:18 PM

"[...]I have to admit I'm not a big anime fan. Most anime that makes it over here seems to be either about schoolgirls with supernatural powers who battle evil, or adolescent boys who - for some convoluted reason - wind up having to pilot big giant robots...although, today, you just need to put some boobs or harem and fantasy and it'll be 10/10."

May 5, 2016 1:19 PM

#65

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Mar 2014

912

Well we can take it as Kakizaki talking to Yuma to dull his reaction for a moment. Koskero probably has more experience than Yuma and was even chiding Miwa about talking on the battlefield only to be counter talked.

May 5, 2016 1:57 PM

#66

Caeless

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Apr 2016

139

I said this earlier, but the counter Kakizaki makes is near identical to the counter Katori made on Yuma earlier.

Yuma goes in for blade strike. Katori blocks, Katori fires second hand at stomach with asteroid pistol.

Is Kakizaki's gun stronger? presumably so. But was the situation identical? Absolutely.

You also can't say that Kakizaki has been "blocking Yuma's attacks non-stop". He hasn't been, Yuma has been slashing away at him, and even took his arm. You can see all the cuts in the chapter. We know that because of the wires, Yuma's accuracy suffers, he said so after attacking Wakamura.

As for "Murakami being stronger than Yuma", I'd say 9-6 in a 15 round match is hardly overpoweringly strong, and we all know that Yuma is still continuously learning and adapting to Border's triggers. He's been using the wires for 3 days, and Grasshopper for 2 weeks at most.

In addition to Yuma vs Murakami and Yuma vs Visa, there was foreshadowing in both cases, making it obvious and there is literally no reason that Yuma couldn't use a shield in the situation he's in with Kakizaki right now to defend this attack.

May 5, 2016 2:22 PM

#67

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912

Caeless said:

In addition to Yuma vs Murakami and Yuma vs Visa, there was foreshadowing in both cases, making it obvious and there is literally no reason that Yuma couldn't use a shield in the situation he's in with Kakizaki right now to defend this attack.

We can't really see, but I would assume he did use shield and it broke through

May 5, 2016 3:36 PM

#68

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Dec 2015

313

Kenboy said:

Back to Ko and Viza's situation: What I can see is that Ko's SE is more a "memorize" thing (Although he still learns) but he also needs to put this into practice, and it was what happened with him and Yuma. Yuma had Chika's help and also, the water scenario was something unusual to Ko (IMO he and Yuma are equal, not Ko being stronger - His SE is like a cheat but, in the other hand, Yuma is kind of a prodigy), so, that fight was something elaborated. Like Viza's battle; I don't need to explain cause you guys got it in previous commentaries - about the "other worlds, dimension and etc" thing: What are the odds? This is relative, pal. There were many elements envolved in their battle; we can't judge by something like Wen's fight.

I really don't see why being ''elaborate'' changes things for you. Honnestly, for me, the more elaborate it is, the less sense it makes. To be caught in a tiny moment is more understandable, in my opinion, than fooling someone in an elaborate scheme.

Considering Viza, of course the odds are slim, of course its relative. But the same can be said of Yuma and Kakizaki's fight. The odds were slim that Kakizaki would completly change is fighting style and go for a suicide move. You guys should look at this the same way. You can't pick and choose what is beleivable or not to fit the characters you like, you need to be objective.

Kenboy said:

@LuzNight - Don't get me wrong but, sometimes, you seem to be a little bit arrogant when talking with us. But it's just an observation, no prob at all.

Oh I'm totally arogant! But it's just a character, I don't actually think I'm better or smarter than any of you. Well, maybe some of you... :P

May 5, 2016 5:22 PM

#69

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Mar 2016

139

I'm using my cellphone now so it's hard to discuss with everyone:

@LuzNight

What I mean by "elaborated" is the fact that these two battles was something more "strained", " hard" for both sides (although Ko was "dominating the field" but, still Yuma had his chances to counter-attack). But, now, I see your POV; it's what the latins say here "elemento surpresa" or simply, the "surprise motherfu..". Yeah, I agree with you that some desperate moves has it's effects (its like if in some cases, humans works better under tension) plus Yuma's overconfidence (?). Yeah, you got one point, mate.

Viza and Yuma, hmmm...IMO it was not a much suicidal or desperate move from Yuma 'cuz he planned it, but, whatever. Haha, I like Yuma but I'm not picking up chars etc, it was just almost unbelievable (damn son, Yuma had everything and we were 'n THE FREAKIN' HYPE).

Okay, thanks for clarifying this blandly, I guess.

KenboyMay 5, 2016 5:29 PM

"[...]I have to admit I'm not a big anime fan. Most anime that makes it over here seems to be either about schoolgirls with supernatural powers who battle evil, or adolescent boys who - for some convoluted reason - wind up having to pilot big giant robots...although, today, you just need to put some boobs or harem and fantasy and it'll be 10/10."

May 5, 2016 5:35 PM

#70

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Dec 2015

313

Kenboy said:
@LuzNight

What I mean by "elaborated" is the fact that these two battles was something more "strained", " hard" for both sides (although Ko was "dominating the field" but, still Yuma had his chances to counter-attack). But, now, I see your POV; it's what the latins say here "elemento surpresa" or simply, the "surprise motherfu..". Yeah, I agree with you that some desperate moves has it's effects (its like if in some cases, humans works better under tension) plus Yuma's overconfidence (?). Yeah, you got one point, mate.

Viza and Yuma, hmmm...IMO it was not a much suicidal or desperate move from Yuma 'cuz he planned it, but, whatever. Haha, I like Yuma but I'm not picking up chars etc, it was just almost unbelievable (damn son, Yuma had everything and we were 'n THE FREAKIN' HYPE).

Okay, thanks for clarifying this blandly, I guess.

I don't think planning something necessarily means it's not suicidal or desperate.

But anyway, I'm glad we can more or less agree. I'm also glad you brought up the fact that some people work better under pressure because I think it applies to a lot of character definetly including Yuma. I think Yuma is much better when he is fighting an uphill battle which is why is did less good here. And it's not surprising when you think about it, most of Yuma's experience comes from the neighborhood where triggers have been around forever so the average soldier is a lot stronger.

May 5, 2016 6:55 PM

#71

Caeless

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Apr 2016

139

So, going off of past history, and maybe what we're seeing here with a bit of future theory.

What happens if they DO lose?

With only a couple matches left, if Tamakoma don't make it, then what?

Do they go to the Neighborhood on their own like Chika's brother did?

I mean, if you think about how the manga is written, it's about teamwork, and about progress, and people being weak, and making mistakes.

So, let's say T-2 *doesn't* make A-Rank, and doesn't qualify for the Away Squads. I don't think that's very far fetch'd of a thing that could happen, what happens next?

There are definitely ways for people to go to other worlds in the neighborhood without the away ship. Maybe this is all leading to Osamu, Chika, Hyuse, and Yuma going rogue?

I mean, it's unlikely, but there's been enough talk about these other things happening that I wouldn't be *too* surprised by the story moving in that direction.

May 5, 2016 7:03 PM

#72

Offline

Mar 2014

912

Caeless said:
So, going off of past history, and maybe what we're seeing here with a bit of future theory.

What happens if they DO lose?

With only a couple matches left, if Tamakoma don't make it, then what?

Do they go to the Neighborhood on their own like Chika's brother did?

I mean, if you think about how the manga is written, it's about teamwork, and about progress, and people being weak, and making mistakes.

So, let's say T-2 *doesn't* make A-Rank, and doesn't qualify for the Away Squads. I don't think that's very far fetch'd of a thing that could happen, what happens next?

There are definitely ways for people to go to other worlds in the neighborhood without the away ship. Maybe this is all leading to Osamu, Chika, Hyuse, and Yuma going rogue?

I mean, it's unlikely, but there's been enough talk about these other things happening that I wouldn't be *too* surprised by the story moving in that direction.

Well we don't know how many matches are left until selection. There's another break after round 6, but I wouldn't be to surprised if there were more since we would need two matches to introduce Ikoma, Ouji, and Yuba Squads. Granted I don't think we will see anything past new squads or the top two in terms of these matches. We might get a case where we have the match that basically sets the pace for how well T-2 + Hyuse works and then skip over the other matches into mid March.

May 5, 2016 8:16 PM

#73

Offline

Mar 2016

139

Yup, one way or another, some elaborated plans or moves could be kind of suicidal/desperate like a plan B or the "ultimate plan". Yay, we have a total agreement (or something like that, at least)!

Caeless said:
So, going off of past history, and maybe what we're seeing here with a bit of future theory.

What happens if they DO lose?

With only a couple matches left, if Tamakoma don't make it, then what?

Do they go to the Neighborhood on their own like Chika's brother did?

I mean, if you think about how the manga is written, it's about teamwork, and about progress, and people being weak, and making mistakes.

So, let's say T-2 *doesn't* make A-Rank, and doesn't qualify for the Away Squads. I don't think that's very far fetch'd of a thing that could happen, what happens next?

There are definitely ways for people to go to other worlds in the neighborhood without the away ship. Maybe this is all leading to Osamu, Chika, Hyuse, and Yuma going rogue?

I mean, it's unlikely, but there's been enough talk about these other things happening that I wouldn't be *too* surprised by the story moving in that direction.

Hm, it's interesting, but, we can't make up theories now without knowing if Yuma is "dead" or not, cause we could have too much "ifs" without this and maybe here could have many TL;DR posts. But I don't think that they will go rogue if they lose. Maybe a plan B? For example, with the amount of Chika's trion they could send a new prototype ship? Idk there are too many possibilities.

Also, there is Dues-aj's response, it does makes sense.

"[...]I have to admit I'm not a big anime fan. Most anime that makes it over here seems to be either about schoolgirls with supernatural powers who battle evil, or adolescent boys who - for some convoluted reason - wind up having to pilot big giant robots...although, today, you just need to put some boobs or harem and fantasy and it'll be 10/10."

May 5, 2016 8:30 PM

#74

kisami

Offline

Feb 2008

5383

LuzNight said:

Chung2 said:

He did not take down Yuma. Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Yuma has bailed out already???

Exactly. He is way too experienced to fall for a last resort move like that even if he did underestimate Zaki a lot and went wide open. If Yuma did bail out next chapter, it's major meh writing on the mangaka's part.

God, I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this. You guys are treating this like it's a numbers game, it's not. Calculating experience and skill may give you a good estimate but it's not an exact science.

Also, Yuma didn't get "fooled". Kakizaki didn't lure him in. He made a reckless move on the spur of the moment. You guys don't understand how he was able to do it, but he has been able to shield MOST of Yuma's attack so far (or he would be dead already), so it's not much of a strech to grab him instead of putting up a shield (in both case you have succesfully anticipated the ennemy's move).

Finally, Yuma defeated Murakami and no one complained it was impossible although Murakami was and is still stronger. And oh wait, Yuma also defeated VIZA. Viza who has WAAAAAYYYY more experience, more skill and arguably a stronger trigger but I doubt you guys found that a major meh writing from the mangaka.

i just think he calculated that without yuma the rest of his team would go down easy so it was a fairly easy calculation for him to kamikaze himself to take down yuma. there would have been no other means to do so because yuma is that good and hard of an opponent to take down.

even if yuma is not bailing, that was a critical hit and in fact, if after all of that yuma remains, it was a wasted attempt that cost too much.

May 5, 2016 11:35 PM

#75

deadmanwalking13

Offline

Oct 2015

59

RNGesus I cant believe how many people are commenting on the WT threads these days! I'm a little exhausted just catching up to the conversation! Despite seeing this ongoing debate on KugaVSKakizaki and not wanting to fan the flames, Im going to throw in my 2 cents of gasoline. Kuga got shot, end of story. That is canon already and I don't see why people are arguing over it still. I'm on @LuzNight 's side in that I feel Kakizaki is more than capable of pulling off what he just did.

Kuga is, as everyone is saying, a talented BT user with twice(if not more) experience than the agents of Border. But it is because of that, that he is more than reckless in battles. Even though he is able to calculate loss and gain effectively in the midst of battle he is okay with taking the overwhelming loss as long as he comes out on top. In all the battles that everyone else keeps mentioning, Kuga always loses a limb or gets an injury of some sort. As an attacker he is pretty daring/careless. I wouldn't doubt that Kuga was waiting for something but wasn't expecting point blank fire that would break through his shield.

Regardless of the result of that little clash, I am more excited to see how the rest of the battle will flesh out. I'm expecting chika to bail out after getting a few more hits in with lead bullet. Wether or not the bail out is by choice or enemy attack, I think she'll be the next to leave the field. I would prefer the scenario of Teruya taking out Chika just so someone else gets a point. Maybe also because I want Osamu to be in an ironic position(He changed to spider to help out his teammates more even when hes not there but the first battle he uses it everyone gets taken out besides him? That would be funny) But thats just personal preference. There would also be more interesting developments if the battle went that route. Teruya VS Osamu VS Katori Squad. I like the thought of that.

May 6, 2016 12:43 AM

#76

Offline

Apr 2013

238

LuzNight said:

Thank you for making my point and your bias clear :)

All of those "explanations" you have for Murakami and Viza are nothing but excuses.

He used his surroundings against Murakami blah blah blah that doesn't change anything to the fact that he defeated a stronger opponent and in this case he even survived which makes it even more "unbelivable/impressive" than what Kakizaki did this time.

He used a tactic against Viza that would NEVER work again blah blah blah. Same could be said about Kakizaki making that move, if you want to play that game, because people will have seen it. Actually any move is a one-use move when you win against some talented because they will never fall to the same move twice because that's part of having talent. Of course Viza had no way of knowing Yuma had two trion bodies but that's not an excuse. Viza could have anticipated something with a similar effect. There are thousands of worlds and dimensions in that universe, all with different triggers, and surely some of them could have had a similar effect or be used for a similar strategy. For example, Wen from Galopoola had a smokescreen and an illusion making trigger that could've have faked a death the same way Yuma "died" to give the illusion he was now harmless. It's obviously a shaky example but it still makes the point that something else might've been anticipated. Unless god comes down from the sky, there isn't an acceptable reason for loosing because you didn't expect that to happen. It can be understood and forgiven but there is no excuse or special circumstances.

Finally, I'm not sure what you think you read but my "reckless move" comment was about Kakizaki not Yuma. Yuma was a little careless and Kakizaki was a lot reckless. It was out of character for Zaki and that's why it worked. Nothing shady, nothing unbelievable. Just a low for Yuma. It happens and that is what makes it good writing not meh.

Clearly, you are not reading by posts otherwise "your bias" would not be in your comment. I already agreed with your comment on that fact that Yuma was overconfident in the match which led to Zaki's last counter. I did not say the counter was bad writing, I said it'd be bad writing if the counter did pull through and bailed out Yuma.

Kakizaki took a hold of Yuma and shot him because he went wide open. While in the other match, Yuma took advantage of the bridge and threw himself and Kou underwater, Kou had Raygust which weighs heavy hence pulls down his weight whereas Yuma had Scorpion which weighs light and can change shape and used that to incapacitate him using Shiori's help by clearing his sight.

On and don't forget, as someone point out Katori already used Zaki's move in Ch 138. So there's no way Yuma should fall for a move like that again.

"Of course Viza had no way of knowing Yuma had two trion bodies but that's not an excuse. Viza could have anticipated something with a similar effect. There are thousands of worlds and dimensions in that universe, all with different triggers, and surely some of them could have had a similar effect or be used for a similar strategy"
That has no relevance to what we talked about. Because for one, Yuma did not use his trigger to defeat Visa, he used his non-combat body, which is a trion body. Visa had no way of predicting that. Yuma would've been blocked if not for his trion body as combat bodies cannot be harmed by normal bodies. It would not work for anyone else, nor work again. You say I look for excuse, but you used a very bad excuse yourself.

The Zaki vs Yuma situation is significantly different compared to that. Zaki used a move that anyone could use, and anyone who is experienced and fast could predict and block.

Also there was another factor against his fight with Visa which helped him win and without which, he would not have. Replica. It was Replica's Chain and Bound which propelled Yuma during his battle with Visa at the end which led to his victory.

It's not a matter of "Yuma is more powerful than Zaki, if he loses it's bad writing". It's rather a matter of "Yuma has been hit with similar attacks previously, if this last resort move did took him out for real, it'd not be a good development".

Dues-aj said:

Chung2 said:
I doubt that. It's going way too easy for Osamu as well. And since Ashihara has never been lenient on Osamu (poor him, sometimes it feels like Ashihara pulls all his frustrations in his character XD), I doubt Osamu will get a breakthrough here LOL

I don't know, this match seems like the perfect opportunity for Osamu to have somewhat of a light breakthrough especially with all the "secret mechanism" talk. If he were able to set up chika to get enough leads into them then I see him being able to kill one or two. Then again this could all lead to them losing and Hyuse realizing that their team's strategy is missing another strong person an believes it could work.

It could be, but I'm not holding out for one. I'd love it if he did show a little breakthrough though. It feels like Jin has already mapped out plans for T2. What a master of puppet he is. Even Hyuse has been manipulated.

C2FlashMay 6, 2016 3:36 AM

May 6, 2016 5:13 AM

#77

Sedgewic

Offline

Aug 2015

72

I don't know why people repeat the same "mantra" all the time that Katori used that move. If people do the same things all the time, they will get countered like Yuma had some "not so easy" time with some oponents because they knew his moves. So he has to improvise and get then off guard.

The same thing can be said about Kazi, maybe Yuma already knew how katori fight in general, so that move is more like the way her fight, but not for Kazi. I mean, the manga doesn't show, but T-2 see previous fights and statiscs about the opponents like the opponents see T-2's.

And the situation is different because Katori blocked yuma atk but not his flexibility, in the other hand kazi grabbed him, meaning he obstructed one of his shield, and the other hand was with scorpion piercing him (so yuma may not had time to activate the shield nor could flee because kazi was holding him).

The dull moviment is that Yuma usually favors slashes, but then for the sake of the story he uses a piercing atk that kazi evades and uses to grab his arm. Why not use a slash like always? Just for the story...

EDIT: Also if it's time for some respect for osamu and Chika, it's time for yuma to lose and the other two have some action. If not they will always be the "only Yuma score points team"...Funny thing, everyone criticize Osamu saying they are super weak because onl Yuma score. But a lot of team act this way, goes to match and get defeated, but are always "They did well", while even if osamu team goes well it's like "It wont work next time"

SedgewicMay 6, 2016 6:05 AM

May 6, 2016 7:36 AM

#78

dat_le_tat

Offline

Sep 2015

160

Yuma take his own medicine he give Midokawa. Stronger doesn't mean always win, not just win the fight without a scratch. But without a doubt that Kuga won't ball out, just damaged.
I think after he take down Kazi, he will follow. Katori will send YUta to stop Kuma while her try to kill Osamu who didn't have sniper support and after that send Wakamura to hunt down Chika.
Osamu will help Chika to stop Teruya. Katori team will follow and we will have 3 teams fight. Osamu then lure both team into open ground, then Chika will show up, using Lead bullet Hound to immobilize. In the end, Osamu solo with Katori who lost more than 1 limb and slow by lead bulled and win the fight.

May 6, 2016 8:11 AM

#79

Offline

Apr 2013

238

Sedgewic said:
I don't know why people repeat the same "mantra" all the time that Katori used that move. If people do the same things all the time, they will get countered like Yuma had some "not so easy" time with some oponents because they knew his moves. So he has to improvise and get then off guard.

The same thing can be said about Kazi, maybe Yuma already knew how katori fight in general, so that move is more like the way her fight, but not for Kazi. I mean, the manga doesn't show, but T-2 see previous fights and statiscs about the opponents like the opponents see T-2's.

And the situation is different because Katori blocked yuma atk but not his flexibility, in the other hand kazi grabbed him, meaning he obstructed one of his shield, and the other hand was with scorpion piercing him (so yuma may not had time to activate the shield nor could flee because kazi was holding him).

The dull moviment is that Yuma usually favors slashes, but then for the sake of the story he uses a piercing atk that kazi evades and uses to grab his arm. Why not use a slash like always? Just for the story...

EDIT: Also if it's time for some respect for osamu and Chika, it's time for yuma to lose and the other two have some action. If not they will always be the "only Yuma score points team"...Funny thing, everyone criticize Osamu saying they are super weak because onl Yuma score. But a lot of team act this way, goes to match and get defeated, but are always "They did well", while even if osamu team goes well it's like "It wont work next time"

Slashing is not a lethal move since it doesn't damage the trion organ directly. He wanted to finish this as soon as possible. Hence he stabbed. Which backfired on him. He should've instead gone with grasshopper + branched blade combo and cut Zaki's heads off instead. Lmao

Against Katori he was mid air with a scorpion and a shield equipped. It doesn't matter whether Katori held his hands or not. Mid-air lessened his mobility. No grasshopper either since his other two hands already had triggers activated. Also you don't need a hand free for shield. You can activate shield even without hands if you only have one trigger activated.

Here's the most likely scenario if Yuma bails out: Teruya defeats Chika, since she is already close to her, that means Chika can't bail out either. Osamu gets overwhelemed by the 3 Katori unit members. He's not likely to defeat any of them, he gets defeated. Katori unit gang bangs Teruya. They win. Sorry but Osamu's not good enough to hold his ground against three enemies without any back-up from Chika. Either way, I just want this match to end already!! Hyuse is more important!

Also more importantly, even if they win this match by some miracle. The next match will pit them against other top B-rank teams. So they'll likely lose there as well without Hyuse. And EVEN IF they win that one as well by some Ashihara woven magic, they need to fight A-rank team to become A-rank team. Which let's say is practically impossible for them without Hyuse. So Hyuse is more important!! LOL

C2FlashMay 6, 2016 8:21 AM

May 6, 2016 8:11 AM

#80

Caeless

Offline

Apr 2016

139

Sedgewic said:

And the situation is different because Katori blocked yuma atk but not his flexibility, in the other hand kazi grabbed him, meaning he obstructed one of his shield, and the other hand was with scorpion piercing him (so yuma may not had time to activate the shield nor could flee because kazi was holding him).

There's actually nothing that says you need a free hand to be able to use a shield to block attacks. There are tons of examples of this. Suwa with the headshot shield to block a snipe, Inukai having both hands on his gun while firing and shielding at the same time, Miwa with his multi-miniature shields blocking Hyrein's attacks.

Do some agents put their hand out to use shield? Absolutely, but this does not appear to be a requirement for actually using a shield in all cases.

May 6, 2016 8:28 AM

#81

p-kun

Offline

Feb 2015

598

To add my 2 cents to everyone's debate, Yuuma was in a hurry to kill Kakizaki because he had to catch up with Teruya. I won't be surprised if Yuuma saw it in the radar that Teruya was taking the shortest route possible to kill Chika (Teruya, too, was in a hurry because Kakizaki wouldn't last long)

We have seen in WT that good agents always protect their vital areas. The way I see it is that Yuuma made a gamble to get rid of Kakizaki ASAP. Once Kakizaki locked him, Yuuma had 2 options (1) cut off Kakizaki's stump and break away, wasting precious seconds, (2) stab his trion organ which is right in front of Yuuma. No. 1 is a not ideal because Chika cannot defend herself. It would take Yuuma a few additional seconds to close in again to get Kakizaki's vitals in killing range. No. 2 is a gamble but it's within Yuuma's character to do so (he is after all, someone who had no problem sacrificing an arm to bait a nobody like Akane even if he had to fight Murakami later on). Neck slashes will be very awkward at zero range, so Yuuma chose heart stab. Just in case, Yuuma has undone his right scorpion, so he could shield. Kakizaki was using kougetsu for melee range earlier, so I think Yuuma was expecting retaliation with Kougetsu. But in the end, Kakizaki anticipated shield so he switched to rifles for spray damage (meteora is not ideal, since if it hits Yuuma's concentrated shield, it may help Yuuma to escape with the blast power plus Kakizaki will be blowing his own body and risk losing his grip on Yuuma). Even so, I believe Yuuma shielded his vitals, which is why only his left torso was damaged.

As for Kakizaki taking his sweet time to chitchat with Yuuma before shooting him (and Yuuma not dodging), I take it as dramatic license. It's not like Ashihara has never done this before (case to point, Jin chitchatting with Kazama and Tachikawa, before finishing them.

BTW, Katori team are leaking trion. If Katori and Miura's injuries are credited to Chika upon bail out (not sure about rules of forcing enemies to chop off their limbs), then all Osamu has to do is to turtle until they run out of Trion (assuming Yuuma manages to kill Teruya before dying). However, Osamu needs to make sure they don't run away and bail out voluntarily. In theory Katori's team will not be happy to earn 0 points in this round, so they'll continue attacking. If the injuries are not credited to Chika, then Osamu needs to find a way to scratch them before they run out of trion. Without Chika's ibis bombardment, I think this is hard.

On the other hand, once Yuuma is gone (and hopefully Teruya too), Katori team has numerical advantage. They can split up and advance at their pace, since there's no more risk that Yuuma will reinforce Osamu if they take too long.

OneCommentary said:

Chung2 said:

If they lose, then yes. IIRC they needed to win both this and the next matches to have a chance at A-rank.

It is only a question of numbers. If Yuma is eliminated now, is very probably that nobody can gain survival points because T-2 don't have the capacity to make enough kills without Yuma... And B-2 team is has now 7 points more than T-2. If B-2 can take their points normally in their next two matches (+6), T-2 will need around 14 points for surpass them. This means 10-12 points in the last match. And this means t-2 would have to eliminate whole high B-teams.
Sorry, I can't imagine this, although Hyuse joins T-2

T-2 still has either 4 or 7 more matches before expedition exam. They can flunk this one and still make it, but it'll make the work harder for Yuuma and Hyuse later on against the top teams. If T-2 can only manage 2 points in this match, then they need 5 points per match (assuming 4 matches), 4-5 points per match (assuming 7 matches). The good news is that, if they lose this one, they'll still be in the mid rank, so it's easier to gain points. The bad news is that, Hyuse might not be able to join by the next match, and the next teams will be prepared (say, filling their free slots with meteora...)

p-kunMay 6, 2016 9:48 AM

May 6, 2016 8:32 AM

#82

Offline

Oct 2015

117

deadmanwalking13 said:
RNGesus I cant believe how many people are commenting on the WT threads these days! I'm a little exhausted just catching up to the conversation!

Wellcome to the new age! ;)

deadmanwalking13 said:
Despite seeing this ongoing debate on KugaVSKakizaki and not wanting to fan the flames, Im going to throw in my 2 cents of gasoline. Kuga got shot, end of story.

Well, this is irrebatible, of course

deadmanwalking13 said:
That is canon already and I don't see why people are arguing over it still.

Easy, because many people don´'t like this scene, and they coment it here. Aflter all, this is a forum

deadmanwalking13 said:
I'm on @LuzNight 's side in that I feel Kakizaki is more than capable of pulling off what he just did.

Except few people, everybody agree with that. But the problem is how it happens

deadmanwalking13 said:
Kuga is, as everyone is saying, a talented BT user with twice(if not more) experience than the agents of Border. But it is because of that, that he is more than reckless in battles. Even though he is able to calculate loss and gain effectively in the midst of battle he is okay with taking the overwhelming loss as long as he comes out on top. In all the battles that everyone else keeps mentioning, Kuga always loses a limb or gets an injury of some sort. As an attacker he is pretty daring/careless. I wouldn't doubt that Kuga was waiting for something but wasn't expecting point blank fire that would break through his shield.

Well, my problem is the development of the scene. When Kazikaki start to talk, Yuma didn't make anything, in all these seconds Kuga was paralized, and I don't know why. Yuma was near his target (In fact, he injured Kakizaki once), and he would can attack him 4 or 5 times more, because Yuma had left hand free (and his foot, with scorpion, it doesn't matter), but he didn't do it. This is an inexplicable reaction for an expert like Yuma, and for me, a big narrative mistake.
It isn't a argumental mistake, because Kakizaki can hurt Yuma, but it is a narrative mistake.
Ashihara could make a better devolpment of this scene with the same result.

deadmanwalking13 said:
Regardless of the result of that little clash, I am more excited to see how the rest of the battle will flesh out. I'm expecting chika to bail out after getting a few more hits in with lead bullet. Wether or not the bail out is by choice or enemy attack, I think she'll be the next to leave the field. I would prefer the scenario of Teruya taking out Chika just so someone else gets a point. Maybe also because I want Osamu to be in an ironic position(He changed to spider to help out his teammates more even when hes not there but the first battle he uses it everyone gets taken out besides him? That would be funny) But thats just personal preference. There would also be more interesting developments if the battle went that route. Teruya VS Osamu VS Katori Squad. I like the thought of that.

With this conditions T-2 will lost the match for sure. And that would have a very negatives consequencies like they lost the positility to go neighborhood with border.
Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I douth it.

Sedgewic said:

EDIT: Also if it's time for some respect for osamu and Chika, it's time for yuma to lose and the other two have some action. If not they will always be the "only Yuma score points team"...Funny thing, everyone criticize Osamu saying they are super weak because onl Yuma score. But a lot of team act this way, goes to match and get defeated, but are always "They did well", while even if osamu team goes well it's like "It wont work next time"

The problem is that Ashihara has a lot of care to explain us with very detail how incompetent Osamu is in combat. Every chapter, when we could think Osamu can make something positive, Osamu failed.
In fact, when he had a whole week to train (with Yuiga), the results was the worse.
Well, I considerer Osamu like a good tactic and a possible good supporter. I don't want any more for him

May 6, 2016 9:01 AM

#83

Offline

Apr 2013

238

5 points per match for every match after this seems more impossible than hard IMO, because they'll be against top B-rank teams soon, and look how they did previously against some of them. Although if Hyuse does end up joining T2 (thanks to the master of puppet), they'll have much easier time.

@OneCommentary More than that, Ashihara has yet to develop Osamu into someone who can score point, even in this match Osamu's main objective was to support from the start (he even said voiced out that he does not need to score points if he can just support his teammates before & after bailing out). So it'll be a rather weird and very abrupt development if he ended up scoring points by defeating some of the opposition.

I'd reckon Hyuse will become a Shooter or a Gunner who also uses a scorpion. And speaking rationally, if he ends up joining T2, Osamu needs to get benched during the next few matches because they'll be an uphill battle and they need every point they can manage to get. Although that seems unlikely because it'd destroy all the development Osamu has had until now in his fighting. I wonder what their positioning will be.

May 6, 2016 9:19 AM

#84

p-kun

Offline

Feb 2015

598

Chung2 said:
5 points per match for every match after this seems more impossible than hard IMO, because they'll be against top B-rank teams soon, and look how they did previously against some of them. Although if Hyuse does end up joining T2 (thanks to the master of puppet), they'll have much easier time.

5 points per match is basically equal power to Ninomiya's team (in Round 4, Ninomiya's team got 3 points of kills, add 2 survival points, then they could have gotten 5 points if it didn't end up a stalemate). T-2 rivaling B-1 in power is achievable with Hyuse. Hyuse will be the second Ninomiya (mid range artillery) while Yuuma can do the work of Inukai and Tsuji combined (front liners). Osamu and Chika are bonus support to make things easier. T-2 just needs to be careful that they don't end up looking as broken as Ninomiya's team and get time outed. Once T-2 gets TO like B-1 and B-2, then they can kiss the expedition goodbye. 5 kills per match (in a 3 way fight of 3 enemies each team, this requires T-2 to kill all but one) is impossible even with Hyuse, especially against teams with good snipers (that can easily kill steal) and in large maps.

May 6, 2016 9:29 AM

#85

Offline

Apr 2013

238

p-kun said:

5 points per match is basically equal power to Ninomiya's team (in Round 4, Ninomiya's team got 3 points of kills, add 2 survival points, then they could have gotten 5 points if it didn't end up a stalemate). T-2 rivaling B-1 in power is achievable with Hyuse. Hyuse will be the second Ninomiya (mid range artillery) while Yuuma can do the work of Inukai and Tsuji combined (front liners). Osamu and Chika are bonus support to make things easier. T-2 just needs to be careful that they don't end up looking as broken as Ninomiya's team and get time outed. Once T-2 gets TO like B-1 and B-2, then they can kiss the expedition goodbye. 5 kills per match (in a 3 way fight of 3 enemies each team, this requires T-2 to kill all but one) is impossible even with Hyuse, especially against teams with good snipers (that can easily kill steal) and in large maps.

Don't they get survival points as well though?

May 6, 2016 9:41 AM

#86

Offline

Mar 2014

912

Chung2 said:

I'd reckon Hyuse will become a Shooter or a Gunner who also uses a scorpion. And speaking rationally, if he ends up joining T2, Osamu needs to get benched during the next few matches because they'll be an uphill battle and they need every point they can manage to get. Although that seems unlikely because it'd destroy all the development Osamu has had until now in his fighting. I wonder what their positioning will be.

I'm pretty sure no one will be benched

May 6, 2016 9:45 AM

#87

Offline

Apr 2013

238

Dues-aj said:

Chung2 said:

I'd reckon Hyuse will become a Shooter or a Gunner who also uses a scorpion. And speaking rationally, if he ends up joining T2, Osamu needs to get benched during the next few matches because they'll be an uphill battle and they need every point they can manage to get. Although that seems unlikely because it'd destroy all the development Osamu has had until now in his fighting. I wonder what their positioning will be.

I'm pretty sure no one will be benched

But they can't use 4 members in a rank war match. Or can they?

May 6, 2016 10:59 AM

#88

icecreamsnow

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Jul 2015

64

p-kun said:

BTW, Katori team are leaking trion. If Katori and Miura's injuries are credited to Chika upon bail out (not sure about rules of forcing enemies to chop off their limbs), then all Osamu has to do is to turtle until they run out of Trion (assuming Yuuma manages to kill Teruya before dying). However, Osamu needs to make sure they don't run away and bail out voluntarily. In theory Katori's team will not be happy to earn 0 points in this round, so they'll continue attacking. If the injuries are not credited to Chika, then Osamu needs to find a way to scratch them before they run out of trion. Without Chika's ibis bombardment, I think this is hard.

Certainly giving Katori's personality, I'd agree that bailing out is the last thing on her mind.
Since there's the minimum distance required they'd need to obtain before they could think about bailing out. So Katori squad would either have to kill Osamu first, or sacrifice Wakamura (rearguard action) and let Katori and Miura hobble away.

I think it's more likely that Zaki will bailout, and Somei will report that Teruya is closing in on Chika. Which is going to give Katori squad an opening.

icecreamsnowMay 6, 2016 11:05 AM

May 6, 2016 11:20 AM

#89

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Mar 2014

912

Chung2 said:

Dues-aj said:

I'm pretty sure no one will be benched

But they can't use 4 members in a rank war match. Or can they?

I'm going to guess yes since Ikoma Squad has 4 people and most of A-Rank is 4 people teams

May 6, 2016 11:28 AM

#90

Sedgewic

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Aug 2015

72

Chung2 said:

Dues-aj said:

I'm pretty sure no one will be benched

But they can't use 4 members in a rank war match. Or can they?

Osamu said that based on the rules they can (not sure if a translation mistake)

And i could agree Osamu being absent from some matches for the well development of the team if it's the case. Kazama's words got into him, so now he will think what would be the best, and if he's a liability, he may step out and let the others handle the game, while he trains to get better and return later when needed for whatever reason.

OR there's a option that hyuse begins to help osamu get better (but not like in a sweet and helpful way, but more like Kitora, being harsh but objective).

I mean Osamu has respect of people that see potential in him, so he's critcized constructive by those....those that say "he's weak, but ..."

Tachikawa, Kazama, Jin, Karasuma, Kitora, Kikuchihara, Izumi...All of the make fun of him being weak and inexperient, but expect things from him (not that they think he is a genius that could defeat them, but someone that has more to offer than looks and maybe than a lot of people in border)

The one that really despise him is Nino.

May 6, 2016 12:53 PM

#91

icecreamsnow

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Jul 2015

64

Sedgewic said:

Tachikawa, Kazama, Jin, Karasuma, Kitora, Kikuchihara, Izumi...All of the make fun of him being weak and inexperient, but expect things from him (not that they think he is a genius that could defeat them, but someone that has more to offer than looks and maybe than a lot of people in border)

The one that really despise him is Nino.

But Nino's just following the World Trigger pattern that pretty much everyone starts out as hostile towards T-2 until they either thaw, or get beaten in combat.

Kitora wanted him discplined for using his training trigger without permission.

Miwa squad in general (well Yoneya's cool with them)

Kazama, Izumi, Tachikawa were under orders to steal Yuma's black trigger.

Midorikawa tried to humiliate Osamu, now he's Yuga's best friend.

The only exception outside of Tamakoma branch was Arashiyama. (I'm ignoring Kako, as I think she's just neutral)

Give it 60 chapters and Nino will be Osamu's best friend ;)

May 6, 2016 1:42 PM

#92

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Mar 2014

912

icecreamsnow said:

Sedgewic said:

Tachikawa, Kazama, Jin, Karasuma, Kitora, Kikuchihara, Izumi...All of the make fun of him being weak and inexperient, but expect things from him (not that they think he is a genius that could defeat them, but someone that has more to offer than looks and maybe than a lot of people in border)

The one that really despise him is Nino.

But Nino's just following the World Trigger pattern that pretty much everyone starts out as hostile towards T-2 until they either thaw, or get beaten in combat.

Kitora wanted him discplined for using his training trigger without permission.

Miwa squad in general (well Yoneya's cool with them)

Kazama, Izumi, Tachikawa were under orders to steal Yuma's black trigger.

Midorikawa tried to humiliate Osamu, now he's Yuga's best friend.

The only exception outside of Tamakoma branch was Arashiyama. (I'm ignoring Kako, as I think she's just neutral)

Give it 60 chapters and Nino will be Osamu's best friend ;)

Miwa still doesn't seem like he likes them.

May 6, 2016 2:20 PM

#93

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Mar 2016

139

Dues-aj said:

icecreamsnow said:

But Nino's just following the World Trigger pattern that pretty much everyone starts out as hostile towards T-2 until they either thaw, or get beaten in combat.

Kitora wanted him discplined for using his training trigger without permission.

Miwa squad in general (well Yoneya's cool with them)

Kazama, Izumi, Tachikawa were under orders to steal Yuma's black trigger.

Midorikawa tried to humiliate Osamu, now he's Yuga's best friend.

The only exception outside of Tamakoma branch was Arashiyama. (I'm ignoring Kako, as I think she's just neutral)

Give it 60 chapters and Nino will be Osamu's best friend ;)

Miwa still doesn't seem like he likes them.

I think that after Afto's invasion, and Replica (especially this one)/Yuma helping Meeden, he has been thoughtful; something like an internal conflict. You see that after the invasion, in the chapters, he's been acting (something like) weird, awkward, idk how to explain, but you can also see by Jin/Tachi/Azuma's reactions, for example.

"[...]I have to admit I'm not a big anime fan. Most anime that makes it over here seems to be either about schoolgirls with supernatural powers who battle evil, or adolescent boys who - for some convoluted reason - wind up having to pilot big giant robots...although, today, you just need to put some boobs or harem and fantasy and it'll be 10/10."

May 6, 2016 3:30 PM

#94

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Mar 2014

912

Miwa definitely still avoids Jin for the most part and I'm guessing Katori isn't going to be that much nicer after this ether especially after being humiliated. But for the most part most of those characters (Tachikawa, Izumi, Kazama) weren't really villainous. They were just doing their job. Same thing with Galopoula and how none of them seem like bad people.

May 6, 2016 11:00 PM

#95