| 1. What happened to Demon and what was Dagomon's Ocean/Dark Ocean about? 2. Why did Yamato/Matt become an astronaut and why did he end up with Sora? 3. How was Taichi/Tai able to go to the Digital World in the first episode? 4. How did Devimon come back? 5. How did Vamdemon/Myotismon come back? 6. Where in the world did the Crest of Kindness come from? 7. Why can BlackWarGreymon seal the gate to the Digital World? |
| 14. Why was only Kari and Ken affected by the Dark Ocean? 15. Was there a point in Gatomon losing her Holy Ring in the first episode than just so she could Armour Digivolve like the others? 16. Why did Gennai have Gatomon's Holy Ring in his possession and did he do anything with it? 17. Why does Gennai help the DigiDestined in this season, but not in the previous season? What makes the new DigiDestined so special? 18. How exactly did Wizardmon know about Ken? Myotismon I can kind of understand, but not Ken as the Digimon Emperor. Can he leave Fuji Television station at will, or is he bound there by death? 19. How did Wizardmon know about the Golden DigiEgg? Tacas said: 5. How did Vamdemon/Myotismon come back? He was a ghost in the real world, so he was able to possess Oikawa in his grief and use him to plant Dark Spores into children and open a dimension so he could then manifest/wish himself back to reality in the Digital World. It almost felt like it came out of nowhere, though, but plot-twists aren't an uncommon thing in Digimon. Yemi_Hikari said: 9. Why did they change it so everybody can get a Digidestioned? Having a partner Digimon and being a DigiDestined are two different things. Anyone can have a Digimon, but not everyone is predestined to save the Digital World. I don't think it means they can't harness the powers of the Digivice, and I don't think it prevents them from traveling between worlds, but not all of them are the Chosen Ones. Though yes, it does lessen the appeal of what make the DigiDestineds special, as it seemed to have been a supposed rule from the start that only DigiDestined could have a Digimon partner of their own, but it couldn't prevent others from seeing them. In fact, one of the requirements to getting a Digimon partner is to have seen a Digimon in the real world, or at least witness some big battle of sorts, it's not really clear. But Our War Game was probably the big catalyst for why there are a lot of DigiDestineds around the world in Zero Two. 12. Why was it only Davis was immune to the illusions? Because he's an idiot with a heart of gold who knew from the start what he wanted to be...? I guess? |
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Lil-Bird said: 16. Why did Gennai have Gatomon's Holy Ring in his possession and did he do anything with it? Didn't he say he used it to create Jogressing? 12. Why was it only Davis was immune to the illusions? Because he's an idiot with a heart of gold who knew from the start what he wanted to be...? I guess? Do you guys know the theory of how the end of 02 is actually Davis' illusion? He stated that his only wish is to defeat MaloMyotismon and since MaloMyotismon's attack causes everyone to live in their dream world, this is actually quite reasonable :D |
Yemi_Hikari said: I could buy Davis being a heart of gold if his characterization was consistent with that, but it really isn't. True. Him being an idiot is really the only consistent characterization he had. Reminds me a lot of the Rocky and Bullwinkle movie in that Bullwinkle didn't get affected by this... mind-control wave or something because he's stupid. 14. Remind me who all showed up on that one. For the Dark Ocean? Only Kari and Ken were shown to be affected by the Ocean, but it didn't mean T.K. couldn't go there to get Kari out. So I'm not sure what the purpose of the Dark Ocean was since it went nowhere. Tacas said: Didn't he say he used it to create Jogressing? I have no idea what Jogressing is XD. Looking it up on the Digimon wiki, it leads to DNA Digivolutions and other evolutions, so... maybe? I don't know how he made it possible, though. 20. How did Gennai manage to harness the Holy Ring's power to cause new forms of Digivolution? Why couldn't Gatomon harness it herself in the past? How many uses does it have and why isn't it an important plot-point more often? *shot* Do you guys know the theory of how the end of 02 is actually Davis' illusion? He stated that his only wish is to defeat MaloMyotismon and since MaloMyotismon's attack causes everyone to live in their dream world, this is actually quite reasonable :D I've never heard of this theory, but that sounds amazingly terrible and would only further hurt Zero Two if that's true. But it at least makes sense even if it's terrible. Bonus: Why wasn't it Kari and T.K. who made the wish because they know Myotismon better than the other children-*BRICKED* |
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Yemi_Hikari said: Then he proceeded to put forth the idea that Davis was really the Digimon emperor rather then Ken, and Ken was picked to be leader by Tai. Davis though has the more remembered face, so when Ryo tried jotting down things from his imagination as he tried piecing together his memories in Tamers he got the two mixed up and didn't get all the facts straight, but that's the show Tamers got. It's been a while since I've heard something as farfetched as this. I think it's also been confirmed that Ryo from 02 and Ryo from Tamers are entirely different characters. |
| In all honesty, the only "plotholes" I want dealt with, as everything else made sense to me, personally, is the Demon stuff and the Dagomon stuff. Tacas said: No, they're the same. In the games, it explains how and also how Ken became infected and eventually became the Digimon Kaiser. Still wish I ahd my copies of the games and my Wonderswan Color...but it's packed away someplace stateside.Yemi_Hikari said: It's been a while since I've heard something as farfetched as this. I think it's also been confirmed that Ryo from 02 and Ryo from Tamers are entirely different characters.Then he proceeded to put forth the idea that Davis was really the Digimon emperor rather then Ken, and Ken was picked to be leader by Tai. Davis though has the more remembered face, so when Ryo tried jotting down things from his imagination as he tried piecing together his memories in Tamers he got the two mixed up and didn't get all the facts straight, but that's the show Tamers got. Anyway, Tag Tamers dealt with Ryo and Ken's Digital World Adventure which took place shortly after the battle the Adventure kids had against Diablomon (Omegamon vs Diablomon) in March of 2000 (movie 2). Tag Tamers also showed how Ken first met Wormmon, how both boys had to face Milleniumon and how Ken was hit by the spore by jumping in the way to protect Ryo. Next game was D-1 Tamers, but because of the events in Tag Tamers, Ken had to sit out, as he was sick from the spore. He wasn't a playable character for it, only a supporting one. There was a tournament or something and those who received an e-mail or something with a quiz or something. Ryo had come over to see how Ken was and he did the quiz and he was pulled into the Digital World after completing it. Ryo had to battle against Mimi, Koushirou, Yamato (I think), and Wallace. It was a test. He had to end up facing Moon=Milleniumon, who had this obsession with getting to Ryo (starting with the first two games he was featured in from 1999). After the battle, something happened...can't remember, and Ryo and Moon=Milleniumon ended up going through some kind of a portal and both Ken (who was monitoring the whole thing from home) and Gennai were worried, but Ken had faith that Ryo was still alive. The last game, which continues from there is Brave Tamer. Ryo finally ends up with his own Digimon partner, as in the other games, he'd always been paired up with other Digimon: Taichi's Agumon, V-mon (which will be the same one featured in 02), Ken's Wormmon... He ends up waking up after being tossed into the portal in a jungle like area by a Monochromon. This part of the story is still blurry for me, because I haven't played the games in so many years. Ryo didn't have any memories, like maybe he bumped his head or something. The Monochromon led Ryo to ENIAC. Still don't recall it, but I think Moon=Milleniumon evolved to ZeedMilleniumon somehow and turned out that Ryo never had his own Digimon partner, despite being summoned to the Digital World a numerous about of times, was because Milleniumon was his true partner, but the Monochromon that had found Ryo was all like, "No way! I'm his partner!" ZeedMilleniumon and the Monochromon somehow merged and a Digiegg was the result of the merge. So, with his egg, the ENIAC gave Ryo a choice of returning to his dimension or another as ENIAC had connections to alternate worlds. Ryo chose to go to a new world for some odd reason (I guess because he had no memory of his old life?...I so don't remember lol), hence the implied connection to Digimon Tamers. If anyone can fill in the gaps I missed since I can't remember what happened in the games too well, please feel free to do so. I kinda wish they would've touched upon this in the actual show in general, since they had Ken in the series. |
| I know it's weird, but I really hate the fact that apparently "Jogress" was changed to "DNA Digivolve" when Jogress makes a lot more sense. The explanation in the original was even in English. Koushirou combined two English words to get Jogress. Joint + Progress. His logic...they "join" to "progress" to the next level. DNA doesn't make sense because they're made from data... Tacas said: Yeah. Her level was too high and her Holy Ring was the source of her power. For a Jogress Evolution, both parties had to be on the adult level. She was a level up on all of them.Lil-Bird said: 16. Why did Gennai have Gatomon's Holy Ring in his possession and did he do anything with it? Didn't he say he used it to create Jogressing? 12. Why was it only Davis was immune to the illusions? Because he's an idiot with a heart of gold who knew from the start what he wanted to be...? I guess? Takeru actually does have an issue with being the child of a divorced parent, but we never saw him actually vocally say anything about it, when we did see that with Yamato. Maybe he's just not content with his homelife or living situation and would prefer to live like everyone else and in Japan too....yeah. Divorce rates are extremely low over here and because of the Koseki system, it's not surprising that Takeru has his mother's name and why Yamato has his father's name. Bottom line, deep down, the divorce did and still bothered Takeru and it wouldn't surprise me if it was brought on because he was able to visit his father on a more regular basis since he and his mother moved to Odaiba from Setagaya. It's just like Koushirou (Izzy) with the adoption complex he had in Adventure. In Japan, it can be a taboo subject. It's an old-fashioned way of thinking, but some are really into the "bloodline" thing and having someone adopted into the family can be seen as tainting that alleged pure bloodline. Iori missed his father and learning what he did about him, wished he was around to show him the Digital World. Miyako had a sibling complex. She feels overshadowed by them and longed to have her parents' full attention, but soon realized that life without her siblings would become boring after a while. Ken felt guilt over his brother's death (which he still blamed himself for) and for the harm he caused to innocent Digimon while he was the Digimon Kaiser. Hikari....meh. She should've been in the same boat as Daisuke, personally for this one, because her dreamworld wasn't anything personal so to me anyway, hers felt incredibly forced. |
ssjup81Mar 17, 2015 7:32 PM
| After rewatching the series, you can really tell they rushed A LOT of things and could only work with the time they were given. Though, imagine if a couple of the useless episodes were left out (i.e. ShogunGekomon and Starman episodes) some other things could have been fit in. |
| It's just fanboys talking nonsense. 01 had also plot holes. It's a show for kids damn it. Pretty much every great story out there has plot holes, from Star Wars to anything else. |
ssjup81 said: I know it's weird, but I really hate the fact that apparently "Jogress" was changed to "DNA Digivolve" when Jogress makes a lot more sense. The explanation in the original was even in English. Koushirou combined two English words to get Jogress. Joint + Progress. His logic...they "join" to "progress" to the next level. DNA doesn't make sense because they're made from data... Tacas said: Yeah. Her level was too high and her Holy Ring was the source of her power. For a Jogress Evolution, both parties had to be on the adult level. She was a level up on all of them.Didn't he say he used it to create Jogressing? Is that really accurate? Her being a level up on all of them, I mean. Tailmon's holy ring is the source of her power as a champion level digimon. Without it, her power was reduced to rookie, but I don't think that for the joggress evolution she would be too high level if she still had it. She is an adult digimon with or without the ring. The difference is her power. That is why she was pretty much useless in the first two episodes of 02 and needed the digimental to fight. Gennai's explanation is actually really stupid and does not make any sense. How would her holy ring be used to help joggers evolution? Writers decided to took her ring just so the digimental would be useful to Hikari. She did not have her crest anymore and Tailmon couldn't evolve to Angewomon easily. If that wasn't the case, there was no point in using it to armor evolve because Tailmon is champion. |
jorgealisonMar 18, 2015 5:34 PM
Yemi_Hikari said: Yeah, and once again, I'm talking about Japan where divorce is a taboo subject along with things like adoption. There probably isn't anything in place for kids to deal with that type of stuff or a place where they can be fully open about it. I mean, psychiatrists aren't even a true thing here and that's also a taboo matter. I live in Japan, btw. I find it realistic that Takeru would want to live a life with an actual family setting since for the majority of his life (since he was 4), he hasn't fully lived it. To me, it was a deep-seeded desire, obviously one never fully dealt with and being in Japan, I'm not at all surprised. The interesting thing to note about him, was that for his dreamworld sequence, he was completely detached from reality...the others, maybe not so much. Just a nice, family atmosphere he didn't grow up with and wants. It's a shame that you keep painting all children of divorce with the same brush. Everyone is different and deals with certain situations differently. It's nice that you've dealt with kids going through divorce. So have I...here in Japan. It's just not talked about generally and you tiptoe around it or the subject. Having fathers not living with the family is normal, if it's work-related (Sora's situation and the partial cause of her rebellious attitude towards her mother at one point), but divorce, tight-lipped about it, usually. I've worked with children whose parents are divorced. The wish for their parents to get back together is strong the first year or two, but after that they become accepting of the fact their parents may never get back together. Even if Matt and T.K.'s parents are in better terms and there may be some inkling that said parents may get back together the wish isn't going to be strong. Oh and something else about Takeru...I don't think he necessarily wanted his parents back together...I think he desired an actual normal family setting moreso. Think about it. His mother is usually always busy. He hangs over at Daisuke's place a lot because of this, which Natsuko pointed out and thanked Daisuke's father for when they met that time and he was giving her a manuscript or something like that. She thanked him for always having Takeru over. There was also that other ep where Hikari was trapped in the Digital World and they had to go back for her and I think Daisuke asked Takeru if it would be okay for him to head back there, and Takeru explained that his mother was going to be late anyway coming home. I was under the impression that Takeru was definitely a latchkey kid...something else not as common in Japan, along with divorce and working mothers. Oh yeah, another series that comes to mind where the child wants the parents back together is in Detective Conan. Ran's character is 16/17. Her parents have been separated for a good while, but she always tries occasionally to think of ways to get them back together. Like I said, divorce in Japan isn't the "norm" and isn't dealt with in the same way as it is in the West. pagina said: Her level would've been too high as well as her strength. The Holy Ring was the main source of Tailmon's power. It would've made them incompatible, apparently.ssjup81 said: I know it's weird, but I really hate the fact that apparently "Jogress" was changed to "DNA Digivolve" when Jogress makes a lot more sense. The explanation in the original was even in English. Koushirou combined two English words to get Jogress. Joint + Progress. His logic...they "join" to "progress" to the next level. DNA doesn't make sense because they're made from data...Yeah. Her level was too high and her Holy Ring was the source of her power. For a Jogress Evolution, both parties had to be on the adult level. She was a level up on all of them. Is that really accurate? Her being a level up on all of them, I mean. Tailmon's holy ring is the source of her power as a champion level digimon. Without it, her power was reduced to rookie, but I don't think that for the joggress evolution she would be too high level if she still had it. She is an adult digimon with or without the ring. The difference is her power. That is why she was pretty much useless in the first two episodes of 02 and needed the digimental to fight. Gennai's explanation is actually really stupid and does not make any sense. How would her holy ring be used to help joggers evolution? Writers decided to took her ring just so the digimental would be useful to Hikari. She did not have her crest anymore and Tailmon couldn't evolve to Angewomon easily. If that wasn't the case, there was no point in using it to armor evolve because Tailmon is champion. Besides that, at the time, in the games, Jogress and Armor evolutions were new, so they had to incorporate them into the show in some way and it would've sucked to leave Tailmon out. Also, notice that the Jogress evolved Digimon reflected the new Chosen as opposed to the older one? All three have alternate paths, I'm sure. For the sequence, the newer Digimon were first... XV-mon was first; Ankylomon was first; Holsmon was first and one that does come to mind where an alt path could've been taken is... XV-mon + Stingmon > Paildramon Stingmon + XV-mon > Dinobeemon XV-mon had the stronger data, although, personally, I wish we could've gotten Dinobeemon. ^^ This show was definitely catering to the newer Chosen Children (Daisuke, Miyako, Iori) as opposed to the older Chosen Children (Takeru, Hikari, Ken). |
ssjup81Mar 18, 2015 9:07 PM
| By the way, thanks for clearing up a lot of things, ssjup81. Things are making more sense now, and I'm starting to think many of these plotholes were dub-induced just to add on top of the existing plotholes from the original script. I guess given the time the anime aired on Fox Kids, while Japanese culture wasn't completely removed in the English dubs, due to our own differences in values and views on society, we never got to "fully understand" everything going on even when they were right in our faces. Digimon looks to be pretty grounded in Japanese culture, we just overlooked it because all we saw was they were kids just like us. Though lack of knowledge of the culture itself didn't help, but that was to be expected. Yemi_Hikari said: On top of this nothing in the show indicates T.K. is unhappy with his life. The show in fact opens up with him in quite a good mood. He's pleased to be making new friends, and he's not having any problems adjusting to his new school. Nothing hints at him having any deep seeded problems in regards to his parents divorce. Is this to say he doesn't have any deep seeded problems in regards to their divorce. Nope. It just means nothing in canon supports said theory except for the dream sequence. Yeah, I guess the biggest problem with this is the fact they rarely, if at all, brought it up prior to that point. It makes me wonder if Zero Two was playing things a little "safe" compared to Adventure, which could be a plausible reason why the Dark Ocean was dropped, because it was "too deep". The fact they wanted to incorporate those elements doesn't change the fact it is a plot hole. The smart thing to do would have reduce her to her Rookie state. If you're indeed talking about Gatomon, I don't think it would've really made much sense for her to just have devolved to Rookie without her Holy Ring, especially given who she is as a character. Sure, she's powerful with the Ring, but even though her losing it reduced her power, it didn't sap away her energy to maintain her Champion state. My guess is the abuse she endured under Myotismon is the reason for why it's difficult for her to lose enough energy to devolve. It would explain why after first being Angewomon she only became Rookie and not In-Training like the other Digimon. In fact, I don't recall ever seeing her be Nyaromon outside of the flashbacks. |
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Yemi_Hikari said: I'm actually under the impression from some of the things I've read online that the director of the series was under the impression that Digimon was his series despite the fact he was clearly not the copyright holder, and as such he felt it was all right to throw out canon in regards to the games and movies because he didn't have a say in it. That's just... wrong. The main reason why 02 failed was that it got very often change in writers who had no idea hat the previous ones intended. There was no connection between the writers or the director or anything. Stuff were simply happening and no one coordinated it or knew what the others were doing. |
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Yemi_Hikari said: I think it was hinted at. Takeru's mother isn't around much because she's always busy. Once again, not very common IN Japan. Takeru no longer lived inland and could actually see his father and brother more often. In Adventure, we saw that Takeru did seem to want everyone to get along when he and his father, mother, and brother were around one another again despite its already having been four years by that point. In 02, we find out that Takeru doesn't live a normal life compared to those around him and that he's always over at Daisuke's (canon). It's not a stretch to see how it could've been a deep-seeded desire (something you're not consciously aware of) or it started to become more apparent because he could visit his father more and that he was constantly around a nuclear family. Like I said, it seems Takeru's desire was to have an actual normal family setting...not necessarily his parents together, although that probably factored in a little. The last time I checked Japan wasn't the only country where people tip around the subject of divorce and adoption. A child also isn't going to have a normal life no matter what country they are from. A person doesn't have to be from Japan, or live in Japan in order to dig up the facts concerning divorce in Japan either. Matt and T.K don't though fit the statistics. Normally the mother is awarded custody, and yet their mother only received one child. In Japan single mothers struggle in finding jobs, and yet their mother does in fact have a job. Many parents with custody of their children don't let the spouse see the children, and yet in their case they're allowed to see the other parent. On top of this nothing in the show indicates T.K. is unhappy with his life. The show in fact opens up with him in quite a good mood. He's pleased to be making new friends, and he's not having any problems adjusting to his new school. Nothing hints at him having any deep seeded problems in regards to his parents divorce. Is this to say he doesn't have any deep seeded problems in regards to their divorce. Nope. It just means nothing in canon supports said theory except for the dream sequence. And you still seem to be ignoring the fact that many things in Japan just aren't dealt with. Usually things deemed "out of the ordinary" which is why psychiatry isn't talked about here. The fact they wanted to incorporate those elements doesn't change the fact it is a plot hole. The smart thing to do would have reduce her to her Rookie state. But, at the time, could Plotmon do a Jogress evolution with Aquilamon, at the time? Remember, these were incorporated from the games. Maybe at the time, there wasn't an Aquilamon + Plotmon Jogress combination that could lead to Sylphimon.|Remember, these Jogress evos seemed more representative of the newer Digimon and kid than the older ones. Sylphimon is very bird-like...so more suitable for Hakwmon and Miyako. Shakkoumon is probably supposed to be more representative of Iori (given the old, traditional Japanese origins of it) and Ankylomon than Angemon. Paildramon just looked more influenced by XV-mon than Stingmon. Maybe I am reaching, but that was my interpretation of this anyway, especially after finding out that depending on the combination, Daisuke and Ken's Jogress partners could've evolved to either Paildramon or Dinbobeemon. Oh and something about the Holy Ring....wasn't it also used to help balance stuff out? The whole light and dark thing. It's been a while since I've actually watched much of 02. |
| I can't help to think is a little... "meh" to give so much importance to Tailmon's ring, wether it was used for the joggress evolution or helping balancing the world (or both). Why her? Why that particular Tailmon? How could so much power be in a accessory of a champion digimon? Couldn't we suppose there were more Tailmon around the digital world? Yet, they chose to keep the ring from her instead. It's a gigantic plothole. I hope they remember to explore Tailmon's character in Tri, even if it's to bring the whole ring thing back to discussion. She was such a deep character in the first season, and had the most interesting story of all digimon (actually, the only one with a development whatsoever, beside patamon, I guess). |
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