| In Islamic Theology the Ruh, is the undying soul of man, Blown into Adam, the Souls of each person to come after him were taken from his back, displayed as orbs for him to see. In an interesting note, Solomon(Sulayman)'s Father David(Dawud) caught the eye of Adam, and he asked God(Allah) to give hime 60 years of his(Adam's) life. In History the character of Sinbad(Sindibad) was taken from a conglomeration of famous traveler scholars, most notably Ibn Battuta. In a copy of Ali Baba from Egypt in the 20's Morgianna(Murjana) was the slave of Cassim(Qasim) who after his death became the property of Ali baba and his wife, swearing them undying loyalty, saving the family countless times. Hope that helps. The Rukh(bird) is also called the Roc, but I dont know if they're trying to say Rukh(bird) or Ruh(soul), the H in Ruh(Soul) is one of the throat letters and is pronounced hard like in Ahmad, The kh in Rukh(bird) is pronounced extremely hard like in Khan, and Khair. |
Muslim_Otaku said: In Islamic Theology the Ruh, is the undying soul of man, Blown into Adam, the Souls of each person to come after him were taken from his back, displayed as orbs for him to see. In an interesting note, Solomon(Sulayman)'s Father David(Dawud) caught the eye of Adam, and he asked God(Allah) to give hime 60 years of his(Adam's) life. In History the character of Sinbad(Sindibad) was taken from a conglomeration of famous traveler scholars, most notably Ibn Battuta. In a copy of Ali Baba from Egypt in the 20's Morgianna(Murjana) was the slave of Cassim(Qasim) who after his death became the property of Ali baba and his wife, swearing them undying loyalty, saving the family countless times. Hope that helps. The Rukh(bird) is also called the Roc, but I dont know if they're trying to say Rukh(bird) or Ruh(soul), the H in Ruh(Soul) is one of the throat letters and is pronounced hard like in Ahmad, The kh in Rukh(bird) is pronounced extremely hard like in Khan, and Khair. Great work with the names. It's sad that everyone pronounce them wrong. |
| Another interesting note is that in the Islamic version Soloman(Sulayman)doesn't "sin", God(Allah) free's him from the claims of using magic and tells us that he was given many miracles and control over Djinn(Jinn). (In Islamic theology prophets are capable of minor errors of judgement but are completely incapable of sin) (Wisdom(Hikmah) in the Quran is usually used for Prophetic Teachings and Habits, though in the arabic language its usually attached to philosophy or insight. The Quran says God(allah) gave David(Dawud) and Solomon(Sulayman) Wisdom(Hikma) just an interesting note...) In the Islamic version of the Story Magic was an art/science that followed set rules and orders, producing set results after following a set pattern, whereas miracles go against the established order completely and cannot be given at the will of the user. Magic follows the principles of nature, Miracles go against them to show divine power. Like Moses(Musa)'s staff turning into a snake and destroying the magicians illusions. In our versions of the story the magicians being experts of the science immediately knew what he came with has truth, submitted to him became believers and were then executed by Pharaoh(fFir'awn). |
| For those who want to know more about the demons/Djins sealed by Solomon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demons_in_the_Ars_Goetia |
| This is awesome, thanks for the hard work i really enjoyed reading that. It makes a great series even better :D |
http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Mem521 -- My Anime list |
| To give more explanation about magic : Muslim_Otaku said: In the Islamic version of the Story Magic was an art/science that followed set rules and orders, producing set results after following a set pattern, whereas miracles go against the established order completely and cannot be given at the will of the user. I don't think so, magic isn't an art or science but something more complicated to describe : A forbidden practice initially taught by the two fallen angels "Haruth and Maruth" located in Babel, they had taught people magic after they warning them of the consequences of being magician (Major sin) ... After the Solomon era, the demons had written all the knowledge about magic learned from Haruth and Maruth into books and bury them under the king Solomon throne in order to mislead the people of israel about the source of Solomon's power (controlling jinns etc) ... The magician use the demons power by going against the faith on god in order to do something normally impossible to humans or against the rules of our world... More the magician wants to be powerful, more he needs to satisfy the demons that he has in his command. Muslim_Otaku said: Magic follows the principles of nature, Miracles go against them to show divine power. The magic doesn't follow the principles of nature either, but unlike the Miracles that are real, can be done only by a prophet and which have a divine source in order to show the power of god, magic draws its power by the help of demons and most of them are just illusion. Candor said: The Rem Empire is based on ancient Rome. (Rem = Rome in Japanese) "Rem" might be also a corruption of the Arabic word "Rom" (الروم) which mean also the Ancient Rome and the Romans. And like you have said most of the characters, weapons and attacks are a corruption of the Arabic ones with a lot of grammatical and spelling nonsense especially the attacks name. And about the similarity between Magi - Labyrinth of Magic and One thousand and one Nights, currently I'm reading the book (I'm at Volume 2 of the Arabic version), and I'll give you a little summary about the characters that have similar names in the manga. |
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| As for some additional info... For some reason I kept thinking of Partevia as the Magi version of Persia. Anyone else got these vibes? Probably due to the spelling of the names, and the fact that its Jafar's design does look Middle Eastern. |
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Candor said: Forever_A said: What's interesting is that the number/order of the demon that was sealed is the same as the number of his dungeon in the series. (Baal = 1st dungeon, Amon = 7th dungeon, Zagan = 61th dungeon)For those who want to know more about the demons/Djins sealed by Solomon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demons_in_the_Ars_Goetia This is really interesting!!! This thread is really awesome o-o!!!!!! Another interesting fact may be that Goi that in Magi is used by people of Magnostadt meaning "non-magicians", its a term used by Jewish meaning "non-jewish". |
| Interesting thread , I'll be sure to bookmark this :D |
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| seems you know about lesser keys of solomon, but for the sake of references am giving you the link again, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lesser_Key_of_Solomon do you think there are some kind of order in the 72 djinns in magi? like sinbad's baal being the first dungeon djinn ...or like newly revealed djinn of kouha's Agares...which are ranked 1st and 2nd ?(is it ranking? or just random profiling?) now, we can see there are 3-5 types of djinns king, duke, prince ,count etc may very well vary in power according to their ranks, if thats the case king vessel could be many (8 djinns out of 72 are king)...the ques is does they also grant the user power differently? now, heres another reference http://mangafox.me/manga/magi_labyrinth_of_magic/v15/c146/10.html ...well i might be wrong.but the story line may become interesting based on the guesses because if its the case power vessels may become some kind of devil fruit factors and it is possible they might grant the user power differently... |
| Very informative thread, great job! ;) Candor said: Zyrkarion said: That'd be nice, thanks.I'll give you a little summary about the characters that have similar names in the manga. Shiirosaki said: There are not much info about Partevia as of now, other than the fact that Partevia did go against Rem in the past, and by checking wikipedia, Partevia might based on theAs for some additional info... For some reason I kept thinking of Partevia as the Magi version of Persia. Anyone else got these vibes? Probably due to the spelling of the names, and the fact that its Jafar's design does look Middle Eastern. Parthian Empire, which was the eastern arch-enemy of the Roman Empire, and from wikipedia also it seems the Parthian Empire is basically ancient Persia (?). As mentioned above, Sinbad's name is based on a province in Pakistan, and I believe Pakistan was part of ancient Persia/the Parthian empire, so it's highly likely that Partevia is based on ancient Persia. Ja'far and Drakon are also from there. Well, I am from Pakistan and as far as I know, Punjab sounds the closest thing to Sinbad, considering what you said about provinces' names. I think, you meant his kingdom "Sindria" which sounds a bit like the province, "Sindh" here. |
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Candor said: Been a while since I've posted here, but here's an update: The Fanalis could be based on Africans, 'cause if you look at it, the Fanalis are muscular tough people who are brought as slaves, but Ohtaka made them more fearsome and dangerous, and gave them red hair. The Fanalis might more specifically be based on African people, the Berbers. Given, I haven't read the manga so I don't really know much about the Fanalis, (and truthfully, not much about the Berbers, either) but this quote made me think of them in particular: Ibn Khaldun, 8th century Tunisian historian said: "They belong to a powerful, formidable, brave and numerous people; a true people like so many others the world has seen - like the Arabs, the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans. The men who belong to this family of peoples have inhabited the Maghreb since the beginning." |
| I disagree with your supposition that the Fanalis are based on African people. Although african were used as slaves they were not used for their qualities as warriors, but only for manual labor.Also they were not the only people made slaves and their slavery happend very recent in history.The red hair color would make allusion to the people of Danemark (vikings) or the people of Irland to whom they were related, but the involment with Rome and the warrior abilities combined with certain customs make the identification without of doubt in my mind with the Thracians.The fact that every fanalis is white with red hair disproves entirely the african theory. Edit: Apparently Greeks and Romans considered Thracians as having red hair. So this is another validation for the Fanalis as Thracians. |
nightcrawlercypApr 14, 2014 6:54 AM
nightcrawlercyp said: I disagree with your supposition that the Fanalis are based on African people. Although african were used as slaves they were not used for their qualities as warriors, but only for manual labor.Also they were not the only people made slaves and their slavery happend very recent in history.The red hair color would make allusion to the people of Danemark (vikings) or the people of Irland to whom they were related, but the involment with Rome and the warrior abilities combined with certain customs make the identification without of doubt in my mind with the Thracians.The fact that every fanalis is white with red hair disproves entirely the african theory. Edit: Apparently Greeks and Romans considered Thracians as having red hair. So this is another validation for the Fanalis as Thracians. There's definitely a case for the Thracians, particularly due to the 'red-hair' (which interestingly, they wouldn't have had according to modern science), but it's not necessarily an absolute indicator as the Romans weren't blonde either, and I don't think any people were ever associated with purple hair like the Parthevians seem to be. So, hair colour doesn't in itself mean that the Fanalis weren't inspired by African people. The Fanalis corps being inspired by Vikings could actually have some ground, as the Byzantine Empire actually had an interestingly similar 'foreign corps': the Varangian Guard. On the other-hand the Leim empire is obviously inspired by Latin, not Greek Rome. You do seem to be ignoring the other main reasons why people think the Fanalis are African inspired: they're from the Dark Continent, and that continent is called Cathargo (Carthage). And this is why the Fanalis as Berbers makes a fair bit of sense as they both historically inhabited the region of Carthage as well as the whole of North Africa. Second, the Berbers were historically used as warriors. Also, you mentioned African slavery being 'very recent' but Magi has little concern for our 'time' as the Kouga's ancient mega-empire would obviously be Mongolian inspired, which occured in the 13th century, therfore, easily putting the Arab slave trade within Magi's historical scope. (Not to mention that the 1001 nights comes from a period long after Antiquity.) |
| You made a very good point. I have not read the rest of the points for the Berber when I wrote the answer. The Dark Continent part is not so convincing as any unknown dangerous territory can be called that (name not related to black people). If the continent is called Carthage then this would be a winning point for your supposition. But I still believe that Thracians would have been better candidates for the Fanalis people (but the creators seem to have thought different) as they were renown for their fighting skills (Spartacus is a good example) and also for their nature. Rome had a custom to form divisions from conquered provences and the thracians hold one of the biggest number of such divisions. On the other hand I have not heard much of the fighting skills of the berber people in contingency with the romans. |
| I agree, the Thracians are a pretty good fit for the Fanalis, only that given the vagueness of their background, and no obvious naming clues, it would seem the 'red-hair' and other similarities may just be coincidence. I only say this after finding this link which was apparently concept-art for the Fanalis. So the author originally intended them to be dark-skinned which further backs the African/Beber theory. Of course, that's not to say that inspiration wasn't taken from the Thracians, but unless the author says otherwise, it'll just have to be a hypothesis. Magi's really interesting for all the minor references and inspiration taken from history/legend/folklore, but I suppose we should be careful about 'overspeculating' when often, the cultures/people are only loosely based on our world, and sometimes, things might just be a surprising coincidence. Our world history is rather expansive, after all. For the Berber's, I'm not sure about how the Roman's perceived them in combat, but after a bit of research, apparently, there were multiple Berber kingdoms which came to be allied/client-kingdoms of Rome. One of their kings in particular (Masinissa), was particularly praised by Roman historians as a great leader-general and non-roman ally. So, there's some vaguely-relatable background that could fit. |
nightcrawlercyp said: I disagree with your supposition that the Fanalis are based on African people. Although african were used as slaves they were not used for their qualities as warriors, but only for manual labor.Also they were not the only people made slaves and their slavery happend very recent in history.The red hair color would make allusion to the people of Danemark (vikings) or the people of Irland to whom they were related, but the involment with Rome and the warrior abilities combined with certain customs make the identification without of doubt in my mind with the Thracians.The fact that every fanalis is white with red hair disproves entirely the african theory. Edit: Apparently Greeks and Romans considered Thracians as having red hair. So this is another validation for the Fanalis as Thracians. I'm African and i'm Amazigh which is how we like to be called instead of berbers and I'm white ! No red hair in our genes but I have blond cousins loool so you don't need to be black to be called and african , anyways the word Amazigh means free people and we are very prideful of our heritage so I think it might relate to the fanalis being the same as us minus the red hair , also there were lots of Amazighi leaders who lead roman armies and roman kings with amazigh ancestors so it kind of relates to Muu Alexius ! Also I find the name of the attacks ridiculous , it feels like they are using google translator lool have an actual arabic speaker help ! |
| I agree that you do not need to be black to be african as there a number of populations that lived in Africa and were almost white. The thing is romans burned Carthage to the ground because the barbaric and attrocious customs of this population (things like making human sacrifices from their children) repulsed even them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Punic_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Carthage the Wikipedia article on the religion of carthage is a bit outdated as undeniable proof has been found of them practicing child sacrifice. http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children# So based on this I doubt this people fits the bill. |
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