Did this scene really go too far?

@Nirinbo You can also find this in any battle shonen or CGDCT with enough fanservice or moe. Especially the beach episode. For example, in JJK there was a scene of going to a family restaurant where the characters were discussing the girl with crush on the MC. We also had a scene where they were all playing amateur baseball. Does this still make the characters' friendships similar in all of these shows? These are just the generic tropes you might expect from a casual teen show.

Why should it be so different? This is still a high school rom-com that follows the rules of its genre as expected. Sorry, but this is precisely the crossing of the line I was talking about, when the debate about the uniqueness of the show turns into a demand for uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness and absurdity like complaints about “male characters in BL.”

Things that make up less than 5% of the two seasons of JJK.


So we agree about this.

@Nirinbo Expected because JJK has a different genre and different target audience. Just because certain tropes are common to a certain setting or characters does not mean that every show will use them in an equal and obligatory manner. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Not really, because I don't see anything terrible or outrageous about a work following its genre, whereas you believe that a refreshing and unique work cannot be true to its genre. For example, your favorite Chainsaw Man follows the dark fantasy battle shonen formula almost as much as possible, while at the same time remaining a rather unusual and fresh work that a lot of people are talking about.

@RobertBobert I agree that there's nothing wrong with following the tropes of your genre. I'm just not going to give Makeine bonus points for its premise, even if some others might do.

it was made to attract more viewers and to give viewers some fan-service. fan-service in earlier episodes generally make many stay. once they stay they might start liking the actual story. this is just my interpretation.

but it didnt feel out of place in any way. it did make me go "wtf no way this is happening" but well it was for comedic purposes + fan-service so i took it as that and liked the scene. i also think that that scene was really vital in a way for us to understand our mc's character. he's not your average pervy dirty-thoughts teenage mc. he's normal and sensible and that scene spoke a lot to us about his character.

This is nothing new. Western audiences are going to be more put off by fanservice like this, especially when it's a high school girl.

What's more interesting is why you seem to care so much about it. You shit on the haters for going online and complaining, writing the show off as generic harem trash based on one scene alone, and yet you're also online trying to defend the show by brushing off that one scene and praising its other qualities. Two sides of the same coin here, haters and white knights. Why does this show matter so much to you, and why are you so personally invested?

I'm just amazed how you have so much time on your hands.

@stevejawbs
Western "modern audience" does not exist. Just look at how dustborn and Concord flopped. Make Heroine is likely made for guys which explains why each episode has a little ecchi. Female beauty is appreciated everywhere despite what the woke non audience might say. If anime teenage girls scared us westerners away, mal would not have so much of us.

I mean, I'd argue this is actually more common in harem animes. They're usually too dense or too "noble" (maybe pure? kindhearted?) to do anything, which makes the girls like them even more.

This is nothing new. Western audiences are going to be more put off by fanservice like this, especially when it's a high school girl.

What's more interesting is why you seem to care so much about it. You shit on the haters for going online and complaining, writing the show off as generic harem trash based on one scene alone, and yet you're also online trying to defend the show by brushing off that one scene and praising its other qualities. Two sides of the same coin here, haters and white knights. Why does this show matter so much to you, and why are you so personally invested?

I'm just amazed how you have so much time on your hands.

@stevejawbs What a good attempt to shift the blame for the controversy onto myself. And of course, all the fans who disagree with the haters are white knights, it simply cannot be any other way. You either hate the show or you obsessively love it, that's how it works. However, I will be really glad if you show me where I blamed the haters for wasting my or even their time. Thanks in advance.

Nope, not what I said, nice try though. You can be a fan of something while still acknowledging its faults, but based on the discussions I've read from you, it's all justified in some way. I can't seem to find a single point where you've had a genuine critique of the show, hence the white knight comment. If you have any, I'd love to hear it.


Again, not what I said at all. I said I'm personally amazed that you have so much time on your hands, not that you blame haters for wasting your time.

You've somehow posted 20K times over the past 12 years, that's about 4.5 posts a day on average for more than a third of your life. So yeah, I'm genuinely amazed how you have this much time to post, and now I'm genuinely amazed how you're so bad at this "discussion" thing, basing your only two points on mischaracterizations of what I said.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, thanks in advance! ^^

@stevejawbs Sorry, it’s not in my rules to feed trolls registered a couple of weeks ago, who are intensely looking for something to latch on to in order to provoke you into a fight (and judging by the mimicking of some of my words, don’t even try to hide it). Find yourself a more trusting food, please.

@Nirinbo You can also find this in any battle shonen or CGDCT with enough fanservice or moe. Especially the beach episode. For example, in JJK there was a scene of going to a family restaurant where the characters were discussing the girl with crush on the MC. We also had a scene where they were all playing amateur baseball. Does this still make the characters' friendships similar in all of these shows? These are just the generic tropes you might expect from a casual teen show.

Why should it be so different? This is still a high school rom-com that follows the rules of its genre as expected. Sorry, but this is precisely the crossing of the line I was talking about, when the debate about the uniqueness of the show turns into a demand for uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness and absurdity like complaints about “male characters in BL.”

@RobertBobert

I don't think Nirinbo demands uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness. They simply heard it was unique, watched the show, and concluded that it isn't. They don't have a problem with it being unique or cliche, but it bothers them slightly that the opinion held by the majority is incorrect in their eyes. Which is reasonable because it's weird seeing something getting praised for achievements that you think are fake.

To their point of Makeine having similarities to harem anime, I would have to somewhat agree. Not because Makeine is overloaded with cliche harem stuff, but the other way around. That typical harem anime are filled with 'just friends' interactions. Especially ones that have a dense mc because the interactions just boil down to them having fun in casual settings. Another thing to note is that Nukumizu is often self-conscious in these scenarios meaning that he is interested. The reason I say somewhat is that the ratio of these casual scenes are too high to be considered harem outright, but not high enough to be rid of noticeable harem vibes. I guess you could say it has harem tendencies, but has significant distinctions to be considered different. I suppose that these differences weren't significant enough for Nirinbo for them to consider it "refreshing" hence they dislike it when people call it unique. At least this is what I gather from their arguments. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Opinion respected but disagreed. Internet arguments never go anywhere so Im just leaving my opinion and stopping right there and then.

Makeine, as per your descripiton, has the novelty of "befriending heroine instead of them falling in love with the protagonist". I do not see how a fan service scene will immediately lead to Lemon falling in love with Nukumizu like other harem anime. If that actually did happen instead, then it'd have truely undermined novelty that makes Makeine special. To think Makeine's premise is ruined by a fan service scene and make the conclusion that Makeine is harem in disguise based on that would just be unreasonable

@flymango Makeine is not a subversion of the genre, those who expect that will be disappointed, so some people wonder why Makeine is different from a romantic comedy
but it's not just a normal romantic comedy with good character development. it's obvious that there will be romance

@teymarofc Depends on what you consider a subversion. And yes, people who believe that there will be no romance at all are obviously deceiving themselves.