Is lelouch alive or dead? (spoilers)

May 8, 2019 1:03 PM

Offline

Aug 2018

141

For those who are unaware, there are several fan theories which assume that Lelouch has gained immortality at the end of the show and thus survived his death. But is this theory what actually happened or is it tinfoil?
Therefore a compilation of all the information we have has been made: all the official statements, from old interviews to very recent tweets, the official guide book, live commentaries, the new epilogue from the official ZR movie blu-ray, etc.
Additionally, code theory's points have been scrutinized to see how they hold up against these official statements and against the anime itself.

The resulting text is quite large, as there is a lot of official information about Lelouch's fate, and code theory has a lot of various points, and the compilation text is as thorough and complete as possible.
The text is, however, well worth reading for all Code Geass fans.
You can find the full text here: Code Geass Community Information Database.

For those who want a TLDR:
- Lelouch has been officially confirmed dead many, many times
- There have been interviews where the creators have explicitly denied some key points of code theory.
- Code theory is contradicted by the anime itself as it violates the lore of the anime.
I do, however, strongly recommend reading the full text, as it has all the argumentation and sources.

I will highlight one example from the text, the tweets by the creators:
- "Before I started writing the story of a person called Lelouch, I confirmed with Taniguchi-director something. That thing was that THE END OF LELOUCH WILL BE DEATH."
- "At least he is aware of his sins and pays for them with HIS DEATH."
- "This man called Lelouch will pay for his sins by HIS DEATH. The story follows him till he finally make this decision."
- "Probably this Lelouch we see in the first episode of the series wouldn't CHOOSE DEATH. He would try something to avoid it. He couldn't DIE, for Nunnally as well. But we see him changed in the last episode."

You can find these tweets on his twitter
A screenshot of the tweets
The translation of the tweets

And finally, regarding the sequel which is confirmed to follow the new movies and not the original series: it is true that the sequel is an AU, however it is important to note that Lelouch's fate is unaltered in the movies, Zero requiem still happens and he still dies, the changes in the movies are not directly related to Lelouch himself,and thus these statements about R2's ending are still very much relevant.

LelouchviBritMERMay 20, 2019 4:01 PM

May 8, 2019 1:41 PM

#52

BlackLatias

Offline

Dec 2017

81

LelouchviBritMER said:

BlackLatias said:

Having watched the movie I kind of disagree with the immortality part. But don't misunderstand me, I am not saying Lelouch was immortal at the end of R2 or in the three movies (I haven't watched the second and third one yet) but after C.C resurrected him.

Then there's no real disagreement between us.
Though, when it comes to what happened after C.C. resurrected Lelouch, I lean more to "we don't know" and don't draw a conclusion.

No, not a real disagreement, that's true. At first I though so, but later realized I was just saying that you are right, so I deleted it in the end.
I really like the speculations about what they might do now with the new information they gave us. It could either be really intriguing and good, or easily be boring, like you mentioned later on in your post.

LelouchviBritMER said:

BlackLatias said:

For one, he now has a mark

True.
Though so does Shamna and she can be geassed, so that means she doesn't have a real code, despite the mark. So it is implied that she and Lelouch both have this "incomplete code". On top of that Lelouch releis on C.C. because "she is immune to geass", which implies that he himself is still susceptible, which further hammers on Lelouch not having a real code and thus creating uncertainty about his immortality.

We don't see Lelouch's (im)mortality being tested so we can't be sure of anything.
We do see Shamna die, though because of her peculiar geass power it's hard to see what this means for (im)mortality.

Yes, the whole Shamna issue is confusing to me, to be honest. And while she does have a mark it also isn't entirely clear if she is able to constantly die because of her evolved Geass (she did mention she hat a future showing one before, not her jumping back in time) or because she has the same or a similar code issue like Lelouch.

I would've really liked to see them explore this issue a bit more in the movie, but I guess it would've made it way too long and it would have disrupted the mission of rescuing Nunnally.

LelouchviBritMER said:

BlackLatias said:

and he later says in the movie that he shouldn't mingle with the world anymore, since "the only people who should kill, are the ones prepared to die themselves. Which is why I am not the one who is supposed to mingle with the world."

True again, but he also says to Suzaku he doesn't know he'll be alive the next day. Those two comments from Lelouch seem to contradict themselves. Does he or does he not have certainty about his immortality?
That's why I think the comment about "those who should kill ..." should be seen as a hint that he's immortal, but rather as a statement that with his uncertainty about his own (im)mortality, he is not on equal footing with other people and thus he can't apply his own credo to himself with full confidence anymore.

I think he and C.C meant it more in a way of his consciousness still being there or not. Less of an issue of his body being alive, but if he would stay the way he is now or get back to that shadow of himself we saw in the beginning of the movie.
It could also be him just being uncertain about his immortality, since he didn't really have the time to try it out and I think we would have seen such an important matter like that, would it have happened.
So again, we are just left wondering which of these two possibilities it will be in the end.

LelouchviBritMER said:

BlackLatias said:

If that really is a thing, hadn't been mentioned though, so if he is now immortal is kind of in the air.

It's in the air, that I fully agree with.
Probably a plot point of any future movies.

I hope so, it could make for an interesting storyline, should he and C.C try to explore what exactly happened to him after his resurrection.
But I am not sure if they go that way, the after credits scene didn't really hint at something like that.

LelouchviBritMER said:

BlackLatias said:

I have read a post on another website were the producers mentioned to have more for the series planned and I suppose they might give us more information about what Lelouch exactly is then. If he is immortal or not and if so, why.

Exactly.
If it turns out he's immortal, I do hope they introduce a way to counter that in some way because an immortal MC is just too boring.

It would depend on how they use his immortality. Lelouch isn't really an athletic person, but a tactician and he would mostly not be in situations were his life would actually be threatened. I can only remember very few scenes over the course of the two seasons, were he could have been killed.
And everyone he led as a commander could still die and he couldn't do anything about them being dead, even if he is immortal, so there would still be some stakes left.

LelouchviBritMER said:

BlackLatias said:

I admit I was one of the Code theorists, but having read what was in the link you provided, I have to admit it was pretty much debunked.

I'm glad to hear that everyone's work was worth it.
There used to be so much false information flying around, and even downright lies and fake fabrications like that faked cart driver video. So many people have been sold a lie while the show staff have always been so clear about this.
If you ever see people claim Lelouch had the code (in R2), direct them to that Database.

Yes, it was really informative and opened my eyes, as I was misinformed to be honest. I wanted Lelouch to be alive and read about the theories and gladly accepted them. Admittedly, I can now better accept him being dead, even without the AU the movies created and Lelouch got what he wanted in the end, so the ending of the original series was and still is the perfect one it was.
And I certainly will link to the database if anyone is interested in it.

I sadly don't think that hardcore believers of these theories would even read the database, or just say they are still wrong, even with all these informations.

May 10, 2019 9:22 AM

#53

iHitokage

Offline

Mar 2012

105

Guys, you are looking for some explanations and theories behind his "immortality" but the truth is that it was a ridiculous and bad fan-service with no real reason or deeper motives. Seriously, we all knew he was going to be there. I just expected them to somehow justify this comeback which didn't really happen.

Mankind’s greatest fear is Mankind itself.
Gendo Ikari (Neon Genesis Evangelion)

REAL LIFE Anime videos on my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCof9ppdHcniLAS_pFoRkqfw

May 10, 2019 9:25 AM

#54

MegaStride

Offline

Feb 2017

6009

Takamura-sama said:
I think he's alive.

what about you?

Mod Edit: Modified title to notify people of possible spoilers.

Wow dude, thanks for ruining any potential ending for me. "Is he dead or alive?" is already a huge spoiler, appreciate this post.

May 10, 2019 9:31 AM

#55

removed-user

Offline

Jul 2018

562346

iHitokage said:
Guys, you are looking for some explanations and theories behind his "immortality" but the truth is that it was a ridiculous and bad fan-service with no real reason or deeper motives. Seriously, we all knew he was going to be there. I just expected them to somehow justify this comeback which didn't really happen.

May 10, 2019 9:33 AM

#56

iHitokage

Offline

Mar 2012

105

changelog said:

iHitokage said:
Guys, you are looking for some explanations and theories behind his "immortality" but the truth is that it was a ridiculous and bad fan-service with no real reason or deeper motives. Seriously, we all knew he was going to be there. I just expected them to somehow justify this comeback which didn't really happen.

I gave it 5 cause of the animations and fight scenes.

Mankind’s greatest fear is Mankind itself.
Gendo Ikari (Neon Genesis Evangelion)

REAL LIFE Anime videos on my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCof9ppdHcniLAS_pFoRkqfw

May 10, 2019 9:35 AM

#57

removed-user

Offline

Jul 2018

562346

iHitokage said:

changelog said:

I gave it 5 cause of the animations and fight scenes.

May 10, 2019 9:37 AM

#58

iHitokage

Offline

Mar 2012

105

changelog said:

iHitokage said:

I gave it 5 cause of the animations and fight scenes.

Nah I meant that without the animation I'd give it ZERO :D

Mankind’s greatest fear is Mankind itself.
Gendo Ikari (Neon Genesis Evangelion)

REAL LIFE Anime videos on my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCof9ppdHcniLAS_pFoRkqfw

May 11, 2019 8:11 AM

#59

Madonis

Offline

Dec 2008

86

iHitokage said:
Guys, you are looking for some explanations and theories behind his "immortality" but the truth is that it was a ridiculous and bad fan-service with no real reason or deeper motives. Seriously, we all knew he was going to be there. I just expected them to somehow justify this comeback which didn't really happen.

I am not sure what kind of deeper motive you expected to find within a two hour movie that, as previously stated, isn't trying to be the ending of the property anymore but a beginning, the start of more developments.

I think they did a good job explaining the immediate reasons for his return within the context of the universe. First, you had already known events from the second season/third recap movie, except they added another layer of consequences to them. Two, you had a personal motivation from C.C. for her own participation in this process. Third, you had the urgent need to have Lelouch back in order to rescue Suzaku and Nunnally.

I will say we will only find any additional justifications in future movies or seasons. If they want to go create their own version of te MCU, or something like it, then I will give them a chance to see what will be their next steps in this plan. I believe they will use this movie simply as a starting point and go into other directions from there.

May 11, 2019 8:22 AM

#60

LelouchviBritMER

Offline

Aug 2018

141

BlackLatias said:

I sadly don't think that hardcore believers of these theories would even read the database, or just say they are still wrong, even with all these informations.

The hardcore fanatical believers of code theory will, indeed, never be convinced.
I've sene cases where code theorists said the show staff didn't understand the show they made. Such people just can't be reasoned with.
but fortunately, such people are rare.
Code theory used to be popular, but as the real information became more and more widely known, the belief in that conspiracy theory dwindled fast. Nowadays there aren't that many people anymore who still truly believe. It's mostly just people who are a bit out of touch and haven't read the database yet and aren't aware that Lelouch being truly dead has been officially confirmed a million times over and that the show staff even explicitly contradicted cornerstones of code theory.

That's why I advise everyone who has never read the official statements, to check out the Code Geass Community Information Database

May 11, 2019 10:57 AM

#61

iHitokage

Offline

Mar 2012

105

Madonis said:

I am not sure what kind of deeper motive you expected to find within a two hour movie that...

I simply expected the same level of quality as the original series. Yes they vaguely described that Lelouch is just a solution to any problem since he's basically a superman in that world but the whole resurrection thing was weird. I think that it would make much more sense to say that he simply survived the "assassination".

Mankind’s greatest fear is Mankind itself.
Gendo Ikari (Neon Genesis Evangelion)

REAL LIFE Anime videos on my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCof9ppdHcniLAS_pFoRkqfw

May 29, 2019 9:02 AM

#62

BestBoiEren

Offline

Jan 2015

1903

Whichever you want, IMO he is alive at the end of R2, some others say he is not. Up to you

Jul 9, 2019 3:28 PM

#63

Lelouchwakami

Offline

Jul 2019

31

Yes, i am still alive indeed.

Jul 19, 2019 11:45 AM

#64

LelouchviBritMER

Offline

Aug 2018

141

For those who are unaware, there are several fan theories which assume that Lelouch has gained immortality at the end of the show and thus survived his death. But is this theory what actually happened or is it tinfoil?
Therefore a compilation of all the information we have has been made: all the official statements, from old interviews to very recent tweets, the official guide book, live commentaries, the new epilogue from the official ZR movie blu-ray, etc.
Additionally, code theory's points have been scrutinized to see how they hold up against these official statements and against the anime itself.

The resulting text is quite large, as there is a lot of official information about Lelouch's fate, and code theory has a lot of various points, and the compilation text is as thorough and complete as possible.
The text is, however, well worth reading for all Code Geass fans.
You can find the full text here: Code Geass Community Information Database.

For those who want a TLDR:
- Lelouch has been officially confirmed dead many, many times
- There have been interviews where the creators have explicitly denied some key points of code theory.
- Code theory is contradicted by the anime itself as it violates the lore of the anime.
I do, however, strongly recommend reading the full text, as it has all the argumentation and sources.

I will highlight one example from the text, the tweets by the creators:
- "Before I started writing the story of a person called Lelouch, I confirmed with Taniguchi-director something. That thing was that THE END OF LELOUCH WILL BE DEATH."
- "At least he is aware of his sins and pays for them with HIS DEATH."
- "This man called Lelouch will pay for his sins by HIS DEATH. The story follows him till he finally make this decision."
- "Probably this Lelouch we see in the first episode of the series wouldn't CHOOSE DEATH. He would try something to avoid it. He couldn't DIE, for Nunnally as well. But we see him changed in the last episode."

You can find these tweets on his twitter
A screenshot of the tweets
The translation of the tweets

And finally, regarding the sequel which is confirmed to follow the new movies and not the original series: it is true that the sequel is an AU, however it is important to note that Lelouch's fate is unaltered in the movies, Zero requiem still happens and he still dies, the changes in the movies are not directly related to Lelouch himself,and thus these statements about R2's ending are still very much relevant.
And in that new movie it is explicitly confirmed that Lelouch truly died and wasn't immortal. it was C.C. who brought him back from the dead.

So there is no doubt, Lelouch was truly dead and not alive/immortal.

Aug 20, 2019 9:27 AM

#65

Sebastian333

Offline

Mar 2010

886

For people in the future that want answer too (even though OP will disagree) Lelouch is dead, but he is alive. But its up to you since its your thought, you control it.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Aug 20, 2019 2:33 PM

#66

Kuroyami579

Offline

Feb 2017

12

I'm not sure lelouch is alive or dead, but they tried to made a sequel from R2 which they makes we dissapointed along time ago. i don't even think to watch this shit, it's like you spit and then you lick that spit, yikes.

Aug 21, 2019 5:12 AM

#67

RazorBMW

Offline

Apr 2016

29

BloodUnitCaptain said:
I'm not sure lelouch is alive or dead, but they tried to made a sequel from R2 which they makes we dissapointed along time ago

He is dead and then resurrected.

Akito wasn't sequel, beacuse it was between first season and R2.

Sebastian333 said:
For people in the future that want answer too (even though OP will disagree) Lelouch is dead, but he is alive. But its up to you since its your thought, you control it.

Control? xD

Everything is confirmed in Fukkatsu, Sunrise just winked to 4chaners, that's all. Tweets, books, everything...

You can believe in your theories - it's fine, just Fukkatsu says otherwise, that's all.

Aug 21, 2019 11:13 PM

#68

Sebastian333

Offline

Mar 2010

886

RazorBMW said:

BloodUnitCaptain said:
I'm not sure lelouch is alive or dead, but they tried to made a sequel from R2 which they makes we dissapointed along time ago

He is dead and then resurrected.

Akito wasn't sequel, beacuse it was between first season and R2.

Sebastian333 said:
For people in the future that want answer too (even though OP will disagree) Lelouch is dead, but he is alive. But its up to you since its your thought, you control it.

Control? xD

Everything is confirmed in Fukkatsu, Sunrise just winked to 4chaners, that's all. Tweets, books, everything...

You can believe in your theories - it's fine, just Fukkatsu says otherwise, that's all.

Lol sure belive your theories@what you currently know. I dont mind :)

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Nov 17, 2019 1:28 AM

#69

Lelouchwakams

Offline

Nov 2019

48

The staff already stated that they left the ending vague. so there is that

Nov 17, 2019 2:10 AM

#70

RazorBMW

Offline

Apr 2016

29

Lelouchwakams said:
The staff already stated that they left the ending vague. so there is that

During Code Theory discussions on reddit, one of the posters here always links to quotes of the director saying that Lelouch was absolutely dead. Here, the same director and the writer, claimed it was meant to be ambiguous and up to the audience for interpretation. They then surveyed the crowd and asked us if Lelouch died at the end of R2 or not and both sides had half the room raise their hands. This pleased the team, as its "what they hoped for."

sauce:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CodeGeass/comments/dxdcuu/lelouch_of_the_resurrection_panel_animenyc/

Kek, to be honest.

Nov 17, 2019 2:30 AM

#71

Lelouchwakams

Offline

Nov 2019

48

the way I see it, R2 had its own ressurection events that happened off screen.

that's it

Poll: » Code Geass: Fukkatsu no Lelouch Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ) Hyuse - Feb 24, 2019	225	by Laborate »» Dec 27, 2024 4:07 PM
» This movie has one of the most emotional scenes of the series CickNipolla - Jun 18, 2022	20	by AnimeVibes_YT1 »» Dec 24, 2024 3:59 AM
» why it's not considered as sequel to 2nd season of original series??? NaughtySempai - May 21, 2021	13	by Apratim »» May 11, 2024 11:14 PM
Poll: » If you were Lelouch, what decision would you choose? Sanjay63773 - Jan 19, 2023	10	by Leonhart93 »» Jan 3, 2024 6:26 AM
» Code Geass: Dakkan no Z quercifolia - Sep 19, 2023	5	by quercifolia »» Oct 1, 2023 7:45 AM

Is lelouch alive or dead? (spoilers)

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