Topic: Aesthetics and you; Legend of the Halation Heroes

Feb 13, 2015 3:21 PM

Offline

Jan 2009

736

The more I stay in this medium, the more I see the saying of don't judge a book by its cover gets lost to the wind. Assuming all things were equal, do certain art styles or methods of presentation have a tendency to cause people to over or underestimate the writing itself? Does quiet and contemplative get too much credit? Is something loud and cute often written off? Do we sometimes pay too much attention to high-quality aesthetics thinking it's all a show has? Is a unique art style the only thing keeping a show symbolic instead of pretentious at points?

You don't have to limit it to those examples, but maybe you get the idea. I can't say for certain I'd be able to take Legend of the Galactic Heroes as seriously as I do if the character designs are something out of an Ume Aoki work. Maybe I wouldn't find Honoka (Love Live!) or Ohana (Hanasaku Iroha) to be infectiously energetic if their shows didn't wave their ability for epic expressions. In a more extreme example, some people refuse to believe erotica can indeed have an outstanding story, and in a broad sense it speaks to the juxtaposition of style and content and how readily or not any combination is accepted.

What's been your experience with this? How often or not do you think your acceptance or denial of a work sways because the aesthetics (visuals, sound, maybe even character archetype) resemble style X instead of style y? How often have you seen this happen?

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danzFeb 27, 2015 5:43 PM

Feb 13, 2015 3:49 PM

NotDolphy

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Mar 2012

521

what does this even mean

Feb 14, 2015 5:36 AM

mugi

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Nov 2009

224

The (audio) visual presentation is part of the story telling most of the times and can convey just as much if not more than just text, but of course it doesn't replace just good writing or doesn't always benefit a show (or comic). That's why movie snobs pay attention to directors and cinematographers because they can make the difference of how the story is being conveyed to us.
As for anime, certain visual styles might just benefit the thematic, mood or setting or even plays with certain expectations people would have going by the first looks. Madoka being an example.
But most of the time I think saying that if you replace a certain art style or aesthetic with something and making the story itself less impactful by doing that, is just rarely valid. It's a bit difficult to say that about manga in the first place, considering that many mangaka just stick to their own art style as much as possible for most of their works.It'd be dumb to expect them to create or copy an art style just to fit one of their new stories/ideas, it's up to them if they want to make that decision. Which again, would turn the specifically chosen art style into a narrative element (?).
As for visual presentation of an animated series or movie, it just boils down to the intentions. SHAFT has been doing some interesting choices for their shows, but then kept using the very same methods for entirely different shows, with different themes and stories, making their decisions rather questionable.

Also, the quality of aesthetics, be it just fluid animations, details or generally good artwork may be something a lot of anime viewers or manga readers specifically seek out. Part of my appreciation for many works in these media simply comes from my interest in japanese animation (hence my distaste for the rise of CGI in anime) or manga artwork.

mugiFeb 14, 2015 5:39 AM

Feb 16, 2015 8:30 PM

lpf

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Aug 2010

1056

Many questions.

Assuming all things were equal, do certain art styles or methods of presentation have a tendency to cause people to over or underestimate the writing itself?

Setting expectations to fulfill or sometimes subvert them is part of fiction-writing and art style is an important part of setting expectations. Also, appropriate art style reinforces tone and mood. Being able to forgive and overlook dissonances between style and content is a good skill, but sometimes you just can't take something seriously.

Does quiet and contemplative get too much credit?

I think that people liking things is harmless and in fact, good. This question is kinda odd.

Is something loud and cute often written off?

Some people are not into anime about cuteness. I don't think this has to do with aesthetics. As for serious anime with cute character designs, it would be a problem of tone, and obstacles in taking the anime seriously.

Do we sometimes pay too much attention to high-quality aesthetics thinking it's all a show has?

Tell us more. I have personally not noticed a lot of people overlooking great stories because they were too busy looking at the high-quality art and animation. Unless you meant to ask if people forgave bad or lacking stories because of good art and animation. In which case, yes, I do that, because I rather do enjoy a visually stunning movie. (Or series -- but if we include live action I think a lot more feature films have great cinematography)

Is a unique art style the only thing keeping a show symbolic instead of pretentious at points?

I have seen this sort of opinions. I'm pretty sure I hold some of them myself, too. Yes, art style and quality can turn evocative something that would otherwise be considered pretentious, just like art style can turn comedic something that would otherwise be considered thought-provoking, for example. Night on the Galactic Railroad's dreamlike qualities come from various artistic tricks, and without the appropriate visuals to make something dreamlike it would just look like wacky randomness.

I can't say for certain I'd be able to take Legend of the Galactic Heroes as seriously as I do if the character designs are something out of an Ume Aoki work.

Me neither. (Subverting expectations -can- work, but not always.) But I don't believe that I would be wrong for taking LoGH less seriously.

Maybe I wouldn't find Honoka (Love Live!) or Ohana (Hanasaku Iroha) to be infectiously energetic if their shows didn't wave their ability for epic expressions.

Those who read the same AniTwitter corner as some of us do know how much AniTwitter likes funny faces and it seems so matter-of-factly to me that it feels awkward this even has to be discussed.

In a more extreme example, some people refuse to believe erotica can indeed have an outstanding story, and in a broad sense it speaks to the juxtaposition of style and content and how readily or not any combination is accepted.

So people who deny erotic visual novels can have outstanding stories? I don't think that's a style vs content question. That's a content vs content question. I've seen people dismiss VNs as being nothing but smut, a problem that would be easily solved by actually reading a visual novel. I've seen people criticise sex scenes in specific visual novels for breaking the tone of the story. That doesn't happen every time, but can be an explanation.

How often or not do you think your acceptance or denial of a work sways because the aesthetics (visuals, sound, maybe even character archetype) resemble style X instead of style y? How often have you seen this happen?

Often. I find it odd that it has to be discussed, because it feels like neither a problem, nor a mystery to me. You make it sound bad by comparing it to "judging a book by its cover" but the comparison is a long shot. Enjoying funny faces and beautiful background art is nothing like judging a book by its cover...

lpfFeb 16, 2015 8:39 PM

Feb 24, 2015 5:55 PM

einonymous

Offline

Aug 2013

1036

Anime, after all, is multimedia. The art and music choices made are part of the anime as a whole, and should be as important as the content. After all, if one just wanted the content, a light novel would be more than sufficient, since even then the light novel has writing style.

People, in fact, should judge anime by its art and music. After all, they reflect the show, and how well they fit should be considered. No matter how engaging the story, I wouldn't rate a book highly in terms of enjoyment and quality if it were written completely in five-word sentences (though I'd definitely be impressed). That writing would get annoying. It would be hard understanding. Same goes for a SOL_ a lighthearted, comedic show definitely. I wouldn't watch in sepia. (Get what I mean there?)

Mar 4, 2015 6:29 AM

iSuckAtWriting

Offline

Oct 2010

190

.........wait a minute

yurisses said:
Those who read the same AniTwitter corner as some of us do know how much AniTwitter likes funny faces and it seems so matter-of-factly to me that it feels awkward this even has to be discussed.

I was asking in the context of conversation, not in the context where everyone is goofing off. I could use another example in Tatami Galaxy, where I wouldn't find the cast as fun if they weren't ridiculous to the extent they are.

yurisses said:
So people who deny erotic visual novels can have outstanding stories? I don't think that's a style vs content question. That's a content vs content question. I've seen people dismiss VNs as being nothing but smut, a problem that would be easily solved by actually reading a visual novel. I've seen people criticise sex scenes in specific visual novels for breaking the tone of the story. That doesn't happen every time, but can be an explanation.

That's content VS content, though I did mention this can extend to things like character archetypes and by extension the kind of show you're dealing with. Like, you can't make something 'quiet' or 'loud' without the aesthetic to match.

yurisses said:
Often. I find it odd that it has to be discussed, because it feels like neither a problem, nor a mystery to me. You make it sound bad by comparing it to "judging a book by its cover" but the comparison is a long shot. Enjoying funny faces and beautiful background art is nothing like judging a book by its cover...

Right. In retrospect, that isn't judging a book by its cover; it's more like a self fulfilling prophecy, where you go into a show with the preconception of it being awesome or awful--or somewhere between--and it's Fate/ is already decided.

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Topic: Aesthetics and you; Legend of the Halation Heroes

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Topic: Aesthetics and you; Legend of the Halation Heroes

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