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I'm quoting you here because I don't want to derail the topic.

Tanjiro pretty much stayed the same I can agree to that but you can't tell me Inosuke and Zenitsu hadn't developed at all.
Zenitsu went from a coward to quickly sensing an upper rank and even knowing that she was one, still confronted her to save the little girl without running away like during Mt. Natagumo,
Inosuke went from a wild Animal who will head on straight in a battle without even thinking, but then he thinks while he is in battle and understands Tanjiro's instructions. This was obvious during Mugen train.
It's clear that both of them matured throughout the show but saying they don't have character development is just BULLSHIT.

Seeing a very good taste here. ^_^

Eyyy yes, she's awesome <3 Yuri's on my top three favorite girls in Tower of God, love her as well.

Oh just realized your profile picture is of Ha Jinsung, right? Dope picture, glad to see some fanart of best dad.

Yep, you don't need to tell me. Especially when you rebut their points and they start to move the goalpost. However I kinda like this about this anime. That it sparks conversations, and I don't think a lot of anime does this.

Nah, you're fine. Your initial post in that thread really did come off to me as a bit of a dog whistle to the lowest common denominators on MAL, so I was perhaps a little twitchy on calling you out on the whole 'sjw' thing, because that's usually a meaningless snarl word for conservatives to use for people they dislike. I also think the twitter wars are kinda... self-consuming at times, I agree, although social media sites like twitter are actually one of the few ways we have to actually harm corporations or individuals with huge social power, so it's kinda a mixed bag.


As for the topic of cash grabs, I'm honestly not too familiar with western comics. They've barely ever been of interest to me, and a lot of them really felt like a form of overly convoluted authoritarian power fantasy, filled with insidious sentiments like 'Great Men(tm) can fix the world's ills by punch bad/mentally ill man' and 'Cops are good and necessary, actually', so I never got into them. I think the point I was trying to make was that corporations are often hedging their bets (minimising risk) in an attempt to get a finger into every pie, rather than putting in any real effort to appeal to anyone in particular, therefore satisfying nobody. So we get 'diverse' characters who are essentially meaningless piles of stock tropes meant to appear on the surface to be part of demographic 'X'. But to people of demographic X, that character has none of the cultural roots they'd expect, or anything to make them a compelling character, so they hate it. The people who hate demographic X irl are outraged by the presence of demographic X in 'their media' and blame demographic X for it being there. Internet fights happen, and then the writers and producers abscond to try again. An aspect I hadn't considered was the social pressure not to back down once they've started, though. So perhaps it's a result of clueless writers trying to produce material for a minority they don't understand, while being unable to stop due to not wanting to be seen as bigoted. At the same time, you really can't expect minorities to stop asking for representation, because we've been largely denied it for so long that now that we're starting to get it, it's... nice, when it lands.

I think it's kinda a hard situation to point to any one point of failure and go 'this here, this person is a bigot and these societal factors are all their fault'. Readers/Viewers are bigoted (or are perceived to be by writers or their bosses) in many different ways and will often cut off revenue if they feel there are 'too many minorities', producing societal pressure due to poor education and the beliefs of their parents, etc. Minorities want more representation and they want it NOW and for it to be good and perfect and everything they always wanted. Minorities are too small a demographic to fund large block buster productions by themselves, and therefore seen as secondary by people who just want money. If we're talking comics specifically, comics culture and fandom is still seen as almost exclusively white, male and nerdy af, which is a big barrier to entry for comics in the west if you are not those things. So even if minorities were willing to buy the new 'diverse' comics there's a significant barrier to entry, before you even factor in how bad comics are these days in terms of marketing. They're a niche collectors' hobby, afaik. Also, speaking of my own extremely limited experiences with western comics... they've been going too long. Too convoluted. Too many retcons. Too many random characters in general, and don't even get me started on tie in comics. If I wanted that, I'd be reading AU fanfics... and I do. And they are manifestly more coherent. And for me, comics in general have a really hard time competing with those fanfics, when the fanfics are more adventurous, queerer and easier to access where I live.

You mentioned Sakura and that's... actually a really good point. See, I freaking love Sakura, for some reason. When I read Naruto fanfics, it's almost always ones about her, because she is one of the largest piles of wasted potential in that series. And that's because Kishimoto, and the culture he is part of, have produced a writer who is awful at writing women. And instead of being able to recognise that he is categorically awful at it and trying to improve, he seemed to almost double down on the sexist subtext of his manga.

So to some extent I think authors need to be allowed to push the envelope more. If they want to make characters with genuine cultural influences then it needs to be a natural part of their character, like it is with real people, and not just have them randomly blurt out 'hey, remember the Stonewall riots?' in the middle of conversation. Being 'minority X' cannot be all, or even most, of their characterisation. Their bosses need to be less risk averse and allow them to publish characters who aren't 'normal' without meddling too much in terms of hollowing them out to a bland shell, but also be able to recognise a harmful take on social issues when they see it. Basically, as you say, let them write what they want so long as it's not advocating for hatred of others.

At the same time, the diversity of writers is an issue, which is what I was trying to say I guess. People who are not minority X are going to have a harder time evaluating whether a character is a good, well-rounded member of minority X or just a checklisted stereotype whose whole character is bent around being that minority delivered with all the subtlety of a half-brick. So I agree in principle with the 'Character Y is gay' in bios approach or like, black superheroes not being seen as anything noteworthy in universe, but that often leads to erasure of cultural differences that are important, too. Like classism relating to black superheroes that might affect their family life or superhero career as part of their character arc, for example, but that needs subtlety to the commentary to be relatable. Nuance. Showing that Character Y can't afford a better super suit because their family is poor, but not outright having them say 'this is because of my family's history and lack of inherited wealth'. And 'gay' characters introduced the way you suggest don't often get to do anything relating to their stated sexuality, often being denied romantic arcs that are just... assumed to be an inevitability for their straight counterparts. And that's not a good outcome, either.

Comics need to acknowledge their roots as political in nature, as is all media, and actually work with that rather than against it. Acknowledge subtext. Coding. That kind of thing. That it was never meant to be an apolitical escapist fantasy. That was an illusion caused by the comics aligning with your own political and philosophical views, so you don't notice them unless you hold different views, like minorities from other cultures often do. As to how to get writers to stop delivering those political points on the end of a sledgehammer... that's the tough bit, and idk what to suggest tbh. Being discerning with which corporations you give money to, and encouraging writers who you like the works of, I guess? Being a critical, knowledgeable reader rather than a passive one, and doing your best to ensure the money goes to the people you want to encourage, rather than their boss' cavernous pockets? Encouraging critical thinking in those around you through positive reinforcement?


Honestly, affecting societal change is stupid difficult, and I think we mostly agree on this topic, but I feel I've rambled long enough.

Hi and thanks for accepting FR! Did you read zhe personal message that was sent together with FR?

Hey, that was a great rant on AoT S4 from you