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I forgot how great that arc was. Even the fights like Neji/Kidomaru & Shikamaru/Tayuya are incredible. It also in a way had me appreciated what the anime added with someone like Kimimaro and his relationship to Orochimaru.

So far it's a close second to Land of Waves for my favourite arc on reread.

Haha good timing! Thanks for the wishes man, that's kind of you! Hope that you've been doing well yourself!

Hey, thanks for your input on this. Honestly I was taken aback at the sudden insults when I sent the guy a compliment about his taste. It didn't take me very long to figure out that the guy is very far gone and I was completely wasting my time. I think I recall that you mentioned him to me a while back, but I may be misremembering. it just goes to show what people will do to try and exert any bit of 'power' that they have. Honestly it might have been the most pathetic message I have ever gotten, it's a pity that I deleted the message in retrospect but I thought that it tarnished all of the other positive messages that I have gotten over the years. Anyway, I won't be hearing from him again, blocked and sorted haha

I really appreciate your thoughtful response, thanks for that! I agree with everything you say and I want to apologise on behalf of all obnoxious umineko fans. Honestly, calling everyone who doesn't get it an 'erika' is about the least mature response for an audience who are apparently 'critical thinkers' themselves. I guess the fans act like goats more than anyone else haha!

I definitely agree with you in that it did not have to be 150 hours long. There honestly is a lot of filler, it could have spanned 50-70 hours and told the same story, and I would have pulled out fewer hairs in the process as well. I do have to admit though, that for whatever reason I actually enjoyed how long and drawn out it was, because strangely enough I found the atmosphere comforting in a way. The mysteries accompanied by the rains and the 'murderer lurking in the shadows' was a cool way to spend an evening after work. It was almost like for 3 months I had this sense of continuity as a nightly routine, so I miss that feeling quite a bit! I am actually gonna try out higurashi as well to get that vibe back!

I also agree with you in that the writer took himself far too seriously, however in all honesty a lot of writers and people within the creative space (musicians, artists, content creators, etc) tend to have such tendencies as well so it wasn't too surprising to see this here. Also, in all fairness, he did portray himself as Aurora and many times it was mentioned by Ange that Aurora was this pretentious, obnoxious personality. So I guess he was mocking himself to a point. I normally hate this sort of condescending attitude towards the audience, however in umineko I feel like this does work given the nature of the story, so in a bizarre fashion it was almost part and parcel of the personality of the project, so I guess that's why it didn't bother me too much. I even found it charming at times, only because of how self-aware it was. It certainly does sound pathetic that he was arguing with his audience over forums, but again to be fair, I felt like this was used quite well almost as a form of parody within the work itself. But yeah, still childish stuff nonetheless, can't argue there.

You made an excellent point about how even scooby-doo analysed the 'heart' within the murder. I actually shared those thoughts as well as I was playing the game myself. The whole thing about the '12 year old crushing on another 12 year old' is a bit on the silly side I agree, however I did feel like this was foreshowed nicely with the 'sin' that battler had committed at a previous time. The fact that it made it clear that he did not remember it was kept really consistent throughout later plot developments. I think the immaturity behind the whydunit actually works alright in this case because the whole project is a bit immature as a concept itself. I don't see that trying to argue against a witch as an inherently deep plot proposition in itself, so I took it with a grain of salt when some of the reasonings were revealed to be a bit questionable to a more mature audience. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well here haha. I guess I could let a bit of the silliness slide!

"Umineko is a story that cannot be understood by someone who has never been in a ABUSIVE relationship". Honestly, I hate it when fans use any means necessary to defend something they like, such as resorting to meaningless insults and self-projecting their own past issues. It's nonsense. I mean, you can enjoy a work, but honestly let people have their own opinions. For example, while I enjoyed the work and I got a lot out of it, I can understand that it's a very quirky work that really would be appreciated by a very particular type of audience, one which would be happy to sit through 150 hours of a project while forming complex theories which may or may not even be factually accurate. In a nutshell, it's okay to enjoy something and it's also okay not too. Honestly life is too short to be arguing about shit like this haha

Again, I appreciate that you took so much time to write this for me, it actually helped to cement a lot of thoughts for me as well, so thanks!

Hey man! Finally finished umineko and you were quite right, I ended up really appreciating the final episodes of the VN. Just to save my own sanity, I will quote what I wrote to another MAL friend of mine below, because otherwise my fingers might just fall right off as we speak haha

"I'm still trying to collect my thoughts of the craziness that is umineko, but honestly I am actually lost for words/thoughts. There is so much to say and yet it's really difficult to single out any ways to accurately describe my feelings for it. I will try though. As a whole, the experience was undoubtedly a marathon, not a sprint. My word, was this such a long read, especially in VN form. I actually read the manga at the same time as the VN, to try and compare the adaptation. Basically what I found out was that VN is about x10 slower than the manga, no joke. However, if I were to re-experience umineko, I would the VN again without a doubt. It is a far superior experience, the music and voice-acting are truly superb, and make for such an engaging experience (my favourite tracks were wingless, my dear and happy maria!). It is such a shame to experience umineko without this, but in addition, the manga also lacks the input of the viewer. You simply read what is drawn and it takes a lot of the immersion out of it.

However, strangely enough I find it very difficult to recommend umineko to anybody. It is a drag to get through, although mostly rightfully so. There are SOOO many repeated moments such as repeating the same lines, a lot of the debates felt same-y, they reused the same sound effects like a million times as well as a lot of the visual motifs were re-used to the point were it almost gave me ptsd hahaha. A lot of anime-isms are also found it umineko, and so it's also difficult to recommend to non-anime viewers.

Despite all this, WHAT AN EXPERIENCE!!!! I honestly enjoyed all episodes, but those last two were on another level in terms of thematic exploration. There were so many highlight plot twists and such cathartic revelations that its impossible to quote them all. The final choice between trick and magic was utter, pure, unmatched genius. I daresay the breakdown of the plot, to make sense out of 150 hours of playing, to the point were if I backtracked at any point of the VN it would make logical sense, is completely unmatched. In a word, mindblowing. The amount of love and attention to detail that the writer dedicated to umineko is completely baffling. I don't think that I have seen anything like it before. I finished my experience with 'confessions of a Golden Witch' and WHAT THE HELL. It might have been the single best plot twist of all time. And it makes perfect sense too. Literally everything clicked, fell in place. I can't find any other word to summarise this plot twist other than 'revolutionary'. The fact is that so much is left for discussion and I love that about umineko. It doesn't spoonfeed, yet it's not overly abstract to the point where everything analysed feels forced and unnatural.

One more fact that I love about umineko is how it used previous elements from literature and detective fiction to develop its own unique take in storytelling. It adopted a strong sense of its thematic exploration from the Divine Comedy by Dante, and I love that. The implementation of the rules of Knox and Van Dyne's rules of detective fiction, as well as all of the theories of locked rooms (Schrodinger's cat, Devil's proof, sheep and wolves puzzle) was honestly so well done that it's actually a marvel.

I loved so much about umineko that it's a bit humbling. It's only a shame that most of it is really drawn out and repetitive, and sometimes a bit silly, but the overall product was 100% worth my time. Bless you Umineko. Bless you"

I can definitely understand why someone like yourself wouldn't enjoy the 'Umineko Epxerience' because I definitely saw the flaws in the work. But for myself personally, I thought that it was an experience definitely worth the time that I shelled out into the project. To reiterate, it was a bit of a struggle at times, but one where I felt like I genuinely understood what the work was trying to say and I honestly got quite emotional toward the end as well. 100% not an experience for everyone, and I almost dropped the bloody thing half a dozen times haha.

All the best

Just noticed that you have added your ratings! Is it just me or is your taste a bit too good??? That affinity is off the charts man! I think I'll use your list as a reference for checking some new shows out when I get the chance!

I remember Dr-Octagon, and NFMaster afaik is still around online and reading a ludicrous amount of manga. Probably more active on Twitter than either MAL or Anilist. Clayer was also a fucking lad.

I actually went through some old Discord servers since you brought up Jex and found screenshots like this. He may be gone, but I never want to forget takes like this lmao

I don't get them regularly. Just every now and again if I'm ever on his mind for some reason. I don't know if he does this to anyone else he deemed an elitist - guess I'm special lol. And yes, he has an interview on MAL Interviews and I remember the forum comments getting quite heated that day.

Also HOLY SHIT I forgot about Jex! That guy was wild with his takes. Utena is communist propoganda and all XD. Apparently, he's more chill in person; a friend of mine met him a few years ago and mentioned how different he was from their online persona. I can only imagine he's even more of a tradcath now. Top 10 trolls I've ever met on this site. God, now I'm remembering all those guys. BoldnessOfSouls. Optigisa. Sunfukung. etc.

I need to send those to my friend. Thanks.

Nice to see a fellow Ghost Trick enthusiast.

Also read some of your comments and it looks like me and my friend dropping SubaHibi when we barely even started was the right decision. I don't know why a lot of vns have to be like that.

Sorry for the late reply, totally forgot that I hadn't replied to this already!

I really appreciate your input as always, my friend. You are absolutely right, I fucking hate H scenes. They repulse me to no end, I feel like a bloody loser playing them. I tried playing wonderful everyday and NOPE. First rape scene and I closed that game faster than I could blink. Nope, not playing that. I have also tried Saya no Uta... loli porn? Seriously? How can somebody seriously recommend these things? I would feel so embarrassed to recommend it myself. Even white album 2, which is considered by many to be a masterpiece, was played by my twin brother (whose taste I trust more than anybody else on this little planet) and I was SHOCKED to see how many sex scenes there were. Honestly, probably OVER 40 SEX SCENES. Like, full-blown nudity, fetishing nonsense, pixelated monstrosities. That's probably about 10 hrs of sex. It drove him crazy. Suprisingly enough though by the end of the VN, he actually thought it was quite good, but the sex was just far too much. One scene, I could tolerate. 40??? No

Interesting, thanks for the recommendation about FMDM. I knew that there was sex, but that PG version sounds good. It's quite lengthy though isn't it? My other major problem with VNs is the length. I don't really like spending hundreds of hours on a story clicking away if I can avoid it.

About umineko, honestly it's really mid tbh. I am not impressed with it. It's a 6/10 at a stretch. I can't really be assed to read it at the moment, although I will try to slog through it when I can be bothered to do so. It's just so bloody uninteresting and edgy. I don't care about ANY of the characters. The mystery just feels like it is filled with asspulls out of thin air. I don't especially care whether it makes sense later, because the essence of the writing is that it tries to outsmart the audience, but does so in such a condescending way that it makes me way to stop reading. I hate stories that disrespect the audience. It completely contradicts the purpose of a story, which is to entice the reader and make them feel welcomed to the world which you are introducing them into. Anyway, I'll give it my best shot but I can't make any promises about finishing it quickly... It's just boring.

All the best

Man, you're like my spirit animal here. It's so good to hear somebody who shares a similar opinion, because honestly I feel like I am experiencing a different series (and I hate that feeling). So, it's one of those stories which thinks it's clever enough to pull one of those alternative perspectives styles off. Well, I struggle to think that it is worth that approach. I completely agree with you, the base mystery is not interesting at all, so how can it feel the need to pull this off? I don't.

Nastuhi in chapter 1? Seriously? People complement this? What planet are they living in? A simple freak out is now worthy of an oscar? I am just confused man, it's like the fans blindingly convince themselves that this has never been done before.

You just confirmed my worst fears... So he is an internet troll... Good God... What am I getting myself into. I feel that people who think this is a 'masterpiece' are just internet dwellers who use reddit all day. I can just see how sad it is to try to condescendingly approach your fans on forums to adjust your story. Can you image Tolstoy orTolkien doing the same? It's just a depressing sight.

Well, I guess I'll look forward to chapter 4. It seems that we pretty much are on the same train of thought when it comes to this, so I will take your word and I'll let you know what I think of things when the time comes... Yikes

I must say, I am having a real hard time with umineko. I can't explain what it is, it really pisses me off. I think that part of it are the stupid, exaggerated facial expressions which make the characters look like they just ate a hot pepper while simultaneously taking the nastiest dump of their lives



The writing is just so fucking edgy and over the top that it drives me mad. There is practically no subtlety at this point of the story, at least in the way that it depicts itself. What really infuriates me is the attitude of the writer toward the readers. The stupid epilogues at the end of each volume/ chapter have this condescending air about it that honestly makes me want to punch the writer in the face. The story is really not that clever. I can tell. He writer shit like 'I bet you believe that this can all be explained by human work'. Bro, no I fucking don't. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a shit about who is doing what, because the mystery is so banal that I don't care either way. Also this 'without love it cannot be seen' nonsense is such shounen writing it hurts. Like honestly, what does that even mean? I mean, I can see where they will probably go with this, but it just screams amateur writing to the extreme.

I am really struggling with carrying on with this work, at what point do you feel that the writing improves? At this point I am really not impressed at all.

Oh believe me, I couldn't stand the pedophilia/grooming/unfunny humour/whatever it's supposed to be either. At one point they even commented on Maria's flat chest. SHE'S 9 YEARS OLD GUYS RELAX, PLEASE. One of the other reasons why I had to stop was Maria kept fucking saying 'uuu uuu uuu', honestly drove me fucking crazy. It's little things like this that just can break the immersion completely. But the pacing was so evident from the start for me. Literally the first 2 hours in the VN are covered in about 30 seconds in the manga. I was bloody blessed by that to say the least.

The umineko fans are like nothing else bro. They make it seem like it was a work of God himself. Like, I get it, I also love some media to death, but I try (my best) to be humble about it and let the person make their opinion first. The umineko fans make it very innacessible to get into umineko because any negative opinions about it can be asnwered by 'well you haven't thought deeply enough about it'. Just pretentious things like that. It reminds me a lot of fans of Ikuhara works, every fault is essentially symbolism that apparently I'm too dumb to realise its purpose.

Rant over, time to read some more umineko lol

Hey man, I appreciate the warning. I quickly realised this when I tried out the visual novel. Absolutely horrendous pacing. It was so slow that it made me feel anxious lmao. So I switched to the manga. So far, not that impressed. It does not feel even remotely as intelligent and well thought out as fata morgana. It is more akin to a cheap shounen murder mystery than something remotely intriguing. But, I will stick to it and trust what a lot of my friends have noted about it. It does (apparently) get a lot better... so yes, wish me luck because so far I am a bit bored with it haha