Report Valefor's Profile

Yes I acknowledge that "getting" something and enjoying it aren't the same thing, and that a work being intellectually high-brow does not inherently make it superior to one with a more broad approach, but I'm not certain I even "get" SAC. There are moments in the series, particularly the first season, where I feel that I clearly see a level of clumsiness in the storytelling or pretentiousness in the thinking that isn't present in the shows I personally consider true greats, but I also have to acknowledge that the show overall is extremely dense and that I could have simply missed the point somewhere along the way. Anyway, I would apologize for continuing to drag you into an endless circular discussion about this, but I'm honestly just enjoying the way that you've been expanding on your thoughts about art as we continue to go around and around.

Regarding Yamato, your hesitance around Matsumoto's potential militarism is interesting because it's almost like the inverse of why I disliked 2199. The original series has an extremely intense atmosphere of impending doom and desperation, which naturally conveys the weight of the crew's duty and the psychological pressure they feel. It could never be described as an upbeat or triumphalist series, and yet by trusting the audience to read the characters for themselves it avoids undermining their heroism. Contrast this to 2199, where the atmosphere of the show is more genial, but the characters frequently talk about how conflicted they feel, to the point where Captain Okita is obnoxiously waving around a copy of Crime & Punishment (a book whose thematic connection to the show is so tenuous that I wonder if the creators actually understood it) - to me this makes 2199 fundamentally adolescent, because of its eagerness to force feed a sense of "nuance" to the audience, and because of its unwillingness to seriously engage with the concept of a war of extinction and how the people fighting that war would actually feel and behave. To use Patlabor 2 as a point of reference, I think the original Yamato is how Tsuge would write the story, whereas 2199 is how the cabal of out-of-touch police and military officials would do so. Maybe more comfortable, but less real.

Also, dude, did you just watch Yamato 2199 without having seen the original? Shame on you!

I don't mean to come off as combative when I say I want to be convinced about SAC, I just want to see what others see in it, because ultimately having another great work of art to love makes one's life richer, and a lot of people whose tastes seem to otherwise align fairly closely with my own view the series that way. Anyway, thanks for that Tomino interview, I didn't know that translated video interviews with him were even out there on Youtube. This doesn't really have any connection to anything but watching Turn-A gave me the strongest sensation of feeling the warmth of the human soul radiating from the screen that I have ever received from any TV series or film. The show is extremely dear to me, so it's great to hear Tomino talk in reference to it with real thoughtfulness like this. I just finished Brain Powerd recently and it's crazy that he went from such a mess to the greatness of Turn-A in such a short space of time, although Brain Powerd does somewhat feel like it may have been tripped up by some classic 90s Sunrise production issues, in the same vein as something like Escaflowne. Would be interesting to hear the story of its creation.

Thanks for the huge response and context for SEED. Before I even sat down to watch 0079, I was considering starting my Gundam journey with SEED—thankfully I didn't, cause I might've ended up not connecting the franchise and leaving it at that. I'm mainly interested in watching SEED due to how important it was for early 2000s anime culture. I see it referenced everywhere, and if not mistaken, 4chan was created so Moot could talk with his mates about SEED, lol. And I agree, I miss big 50 episode shows, mecha or otherwise. I honestly believe it's the ideal amount of TV time for an anime, especially when every episode is unique, in the case of like Beast Player Erin or, of course, Eureka Seven.

I see you really liked Geneshaft, btw. I watched it ages ago, but I remember not really loving it, though I think it's one of Akane's better shows. The production and score were great.

Well firstly thanks for the great reply, your enthusiasm really shines through, I love to see it. Regarding the visuals of SAC, on my recent rewatch I wasn't particularly blown away by them, I have to say. If when you call it the most consistently good looking show ever up to that point you're referring to just digitally produced shows then I can perhaps agree, but when placed next to something like Cowboy Bebop I can't help but feel like it is substantially outclassed, particularly the first season. I'm not sure if that's just due to a particular quality of the hand-drawn cel animation of Bebop versus the crude early digital process of SAC though - I find the full digital episode of Bebop (the one where Faye joins the cult) to be ugly in the same way that I find SAC to be. It's been a while since I watched King Gainer but I remember feeling more impressed with the visuals in that than those of SAC too, I guess it's just hard not to love hand-drawn mecha. There's also the matter of the soundtrack plagiarism, which you can find several videos about on Youtube - it seems like Kanno was pretty happy to lift music from other artists, she did it a lot in Bebop too, quite sad that her whole body of work is suspect as a result as I particularly love the Turn A soundtrack.

Regarding the tech optimism, I have felt that way about what I've read of Shirow's manga (mainly Appleseed), but SAC doesn't exactly exude positivity in my eyes. I'm struggling to recall a piece of technology which isn't taken to its most negative possible outcome it in the show, like even the tachikomas end up getting decommissioned because their AI is making them insubordinate. I think something like Patlabor offers a more inspiring vision of tomorrow, helped by how closely many of the storylines are tied to the construction capabilities that labors afford humanity, but even something as gloomy as Patlabor 2 is full of incidental uses of sci-fi tech that feel very endearing and comfy in the same manner as you'd find in stuff like 2001 A Space Odyssey - like think of the police vehicle which passes over the traffic jam that Shinobu gets stuck in just before the missile strike at the start.

I dunno, I guess for whatever reason Kamiyama's work doesn't particularly resonate with me. I wrote out more thoughts about SAC in the forum threads for the final episode of both seasons after I rewatched them recently and I guess I just want someone to convince me that I'm wrong so that I can love them in the same way that everyone else seems to.

One thing I'd be interested in is to hear your thoughts on GITS SAC, seeing as you list it as your favorite anime. I've just finished my most recent rewatch and I found myself enjoying the show less than ever, particularly the first season, which has been the trend with each of my previous SAC rewatches too. A lot of smart people whose taste I would consider pretty spotless, such as yourself, love the show, so I would appreciate being educated about its value, if you felt like doing so.

With Sunrise I was more talking about a theoretical original project I'd rather Fukuda and Ookouchi work on, cause I was under the impression Ookouchi was mainly doing freelance work at Sunrise. Anyways, I think I'll stick with it just to see where the story goes. I'd assume this'll be like a 24 episode deal? Surely this adaptation is streamlining the pacing, cause there's no way this'll be 70+ eps? Thanks for giving me the rundown on the production, though. Had no idea about the funding situation.

Also, without spoilers, what are your thoughts on Gundam Seed? I've always been interested in watching it. It seems to get a lot of hate from diehard U.C. fans, but the people who love it stand by it.

No surprise, but it was seeing Fukuda and Ookouchi's names that enticed me to pick this up. I agree, though, the script is pretty dry and missing that flamboyance I was hoping to enjoy, given the creators' reputations. Maybe they should've saved this team up for a Sunrise original, or something. Tbh, though, I'm still finding a decent amount of entertainment in it. I don't know if the original Grendizer was similar in pacing and tone, but this show has so many random, melodramatic and disparate elements coming together that catch me totally off guard. Like when we're introduced to the big bad and he's this dour, monotone, cloaked guy, but then out of nowhere his face just splits open and there's a little guy controlling him, and no one comments on it, LMAO. And damn, you weren't lying; these comparisons are very unflattering. The bland production is probably due to the other reason I decided to check this show out: seeing the name "Gaina" emblazoned on the MAL page after assuming they were dead and buried. I have no idea how they got Yoshiyuki Sadamoto on this, but whether it be the staff's inexperience or lack of creative drive, his designs are sadly wasted and don't translate at all. And, yeah, I found it strange that it was set in Riyhad but chalked it up to an interesting creative choice. If that's the case—that it was Saudi-funded—it all makes sense now, lol.

Yo, been a while. I recently picked up Grendizer U out of curiosity from seeing the staff list. As someone who's far more familiar with Mazinger than I am, what do you think of it so far?

Oh gosh, yeah, that Nanai rant is legendary, and him shit-talking Shinkai was beautiful. Although, that comment he made about his next project destroying EVA and Demon Slayer was a bit suspect. I mean, there's no way G-Reco V was ever going to out-sell both those films. Don't get me wrong, G-Reco was better than both of those films (I haven't seen Mugen Train, but one can only guess), but yeah, surely he said that to stir controversy and get eyes on the project. Anyways, I think with his approach to character writing, it only makes sense neurodiversity would have influenced him to some extent. The parallels are too specific for him not to have read something somewhere.

Yeah, his games aren't the most technically proficient things to play—maybe except NMH3, which is genuinely challenging at some points and has tighter, albeit sort of repetitive, combat mechanics. I'd love to play King's Field at some point, particularly the fourth one. The world looks really damn cool. I kind of get what you mean with games designed to be as uncomfortable as possible. The closest game I can think of that fits that bill is the first Drakengard. And, yeah, I don't think NMH was trying to break boundaries with it's gameplay, though I suppose it's unique in that the game is structured around the concept of a boss rush. NMH is more about just hanging out with Travis and falling into the atmosphere and absurdity of it all. It's got a lot of Suda quirks, but in more of a Kojima fashion, as opposed to, say, Killer7.

Yeah, Feez is insane. I've used his blog tons of times, mainly when researching the shift that happened with Tomino's style between Victory and Brain Powerd. I, too, would be interested to hear if Tomino ever purposely incorporated any of those traits, or if themes, like aforementioned Newtype one, was inspired by autism directly. A quick google search gets you a lot of results of people discussing and theorizing, but nothing concrete. Although, there is talk about Japan's early understanding of ASD being conflated with societal withdrawal, and that being what Tomino was referencing, but, to me, in the context of the script and Kamille's character, it doesn't make the most sense, and besides, still nothing concrete from Tomino himself.

From all that I know about Suda, and the works of his I've played, I consider NMH to be his most defining, particularly in the context of NMH3 and NMH: TSA. It might be a bit self-indulgent, having a main character as into games, anime and pro-wrestling as I am, but it's special because of that. And, yeah, right off the bat, Killer is Dead is super fucking stylish, though, I know it was apart of that era in his career (along with Shadows of the Damned and Lollipop Chainsaw) where he wasn't spearheading the creative direction.

Yeah, I get what you mean by "ill-fit." The statement does undermine the evident complexity of each character mentioned, but it was meant as more of a comedic, sweeping generalisation. Though, about ASD, whether it's intentional or not, the breadth at which Tomino is able to depict neurodiversity is probably the most—not sure if this is the right word—realistic take I've seen in anime. I've seen people point to L from Death Note as an example of autism in anime, and while, yeah, I see it, that depiction, however, is certainly exaggerated for the sake of drama. Bellri really stands out to me as a character who embodies those traits in a, seldom seen—going back to this word again—naturalistic way. Just the way he blurts out words and phrases; wrestles with the spontaneity of his emotionally-charged actions, and more specifically, struggles with properly communicating his intent and feelings. Anyway, interesting stuff.

Good point about both Valvrave and Cross Ange. Yeah, they both lack what makes Tomino great, but carry general quirks I associate with him, along with other oddities. Haruto is definitely a pretty flat character, and a lot of that comes from how predictable and shounen-like he is—except for that part where he rapes the female lead, though I guess the show explains that by having it be caused by his viral-vampiric-ness. Ange, though, at least at the start of the series, starts off actively wanting an almost Third Reich-esque genocide of the Normas, only to find out she is one. After which, yeah, she does start to become rather predictable, but not to her detriment. I think she works as a hero more effectively than Haruto because her fall from grace was so sharp.

I'll spare you an endless tangent of Eureka Seven praise, but I'd highly recommend giving it a re-watch, at some point.

Btw, I checked out your Backloggd and saw you were a fan of Suda51, among other great creators, but I didn't see any of the No More Heroes games on your list. Do you think you'll ever play them? I recently started Killer is Dead, myself, after finishing The Silver Case some months ago.

That's a pretty insightful way of looking at things with Zeta, particularly with understanding characters through the lens of childhood. I can definitely see it with Kamille: he acts completely on instinct and lets his emotions drive his actions. He was the main aspect of Zeta where I started to see Tomino's authorial hand. That's probably where the "autistic" thing comes from, as—while, yeah, he was just being petulant—it's what he self-describes as. Even if that was a liberal translation, personally, I think it fits. There's been a lot of discussion whether or not Newtype is an allegory for autism, anyhow, and people have even speculated that Tomino, himself, might be autistic. But, yeah, apologies about the overuse of that term. It does come off rather derogatorily. The term has just become linked with how I personally understand Tomino's characters. Some of my closest friends have ASD, so whether or not Tomino incorporates those traits purposefully, I think it's interesting. But, yeah, I get how the language may be stigmatizing.

And about Ookouchi, yeah, I know a lot of his projects weren't exactly well received, but, imo, I thought Valvrave was great. While watching it, all I could think was, "Did Tomino work on this?" Granted, it's different, but as we were discussing before, I think it's the closest another creative has got to replicating Tomino's "Tomino-isms." It goes back to what I said in my G-Reco review: characters feel like billiard balls in a game of pool, smashing into each other, and bouncing in all different directions. Instead of constructing sentences for each other, they just talk at each other, which I think is hilarious. Yeah, it's pretty up it's own ass, but it's certainly unique—immortal, virus-infected, mech-piloting vampire high schoolers, trapped in a Lord of the Flies-esque situation, where they have to build something of a society all by themselves, whilst staving off space fascists. Pretty crazy stuff, lol. Unfortunately, S2 drops off a bit with the craziness, though.

Continuing with Ookouchi, he did a couple episodes for my favourite show, Eureka Seven, and they're very telling of his style, particularly his Tomino influence. Episode 20 sees the most Gundam moment in the series for Renton, where the 14-year-old protagonist has to come to terms with the fact he's killing real people inside of those mechs, after his emotions cloud his judgment. Then he leaves the Gekko (White Base) to meet Charles (Ramba Ral). Then episode 25 is the BIG middle point of the series where the emotion drives everything, and the cathartic pay-off happens in the form of a Macross reference. Anyway, I think those scripts are more in-touch with his strengths, without the insane, edgy stuff he become known for later. The logical end point of this is Cross Ange, if you've seen it. It's not Ookouchi, but it feels like it picked up where Valvrave left off, though, I like that show as well.

And that second paragraph is great, btw. It hits the nail on the head perfectly.

Haha, thanks. I try. I fancy myself something of a champion for G-Reco because of just how misunderstood and over-hated it is. And dw, I get that—it takes a bit to acclimatize to Tomino's style. I think it was mid way through Zeta that it clicked with me, and now I think he's just gotten better and better, and the more I watch, the more I appreciate. I value Tomino as a creative so much because it felt like he introduced me to a new way of storytelling that wasn't up its own ass or self-indulgent. It's precisely how you describe it with the naturalistic ramblings—he facilitates this way of modelling human interaction at its most chaotic, but at the same time, he grounds it significantly, unlike how someone like Imaishi may portray interactions. I stumbled across a post on /m/ a couple months ago that described that 'grounded-ness' pretty well, it was that his characters are full-bodied and dynamic, and that they passively expressive emotion naturalistically, as real people would. And yeah, i'd agree: no one has captured that essence quite like Tomino, expect maybe Ookouchi, but even then, it's not quite the same.

And yes! I'm happy that you appreciate all the details. The toilets in the mechs is one of my favourites, particularly with how Tomino will cut to a character in their cockpit, zipping up their normal suits, implying they just used the toilet, without explicitly stating anything. Despite G-Reco being primarily made for a younger audience, he puts a lot of faith in the audience to piece things together, which I love. I love how Tomino refuses to coddle the audience. It makes every watch of G-Reco rewarding cause you'll spot new, insane details you didn't notice before. This'll be hard to explain, but episode 1 is a masterpiece for how it treats characters' understanding of the situation. At multiple points, every character asks why Raraiya is there, and who she is, which in any other show, you'd just expect the characters to know, but no one has communicated anything about her presence to each other, so characters just discover her. Even one of Dellensen's men doesn't know her purpose, since Dellensen simply hasn't briefed him, or probably even forgot to. I may be overcomplicating this, but I feel like most shows would have maybe one character question who Raraiya is, then everyone else would just know her from that point on, but G-Reco holds communication as such a core theme, so if no one communicates to each other, information simply doesn't pass on.

Also, there's things they added in the movie that I haven't heard anyone talk about yet, like how one of the Nuts in capital tower has Australian Aboriginal artwork all over it, which is such a niche, specific detail. And, yeah, that shot is awesome. Such a minor character, but just adding those details makes him feel real. It even raises questions about him: like, what is that bear thing? Does he have a daughter that gave it to him? Did he buy it for someone? That type of stuff. And the fact that the books at his work space don't have bookmarks, but the next desk over has books littered with bookmarks and tassels, might imply things about his work ethic or something.

There's so much to talk about with G-Reco. I could go on forever, lol. After watching Movie V, I'm having an internal debate whether or not I think it beats King Gainer as my favourite Tomino work. Also, if you're interested, I did a review of Witch From Mercury S1 not too long ago.

Well, thanks for the feedback man! It's pretty funny you say you found the review cohesive, because to me, it was just venting my thoughts, but I think it's cool you found some worth in it. And to answer your question: no, not really. I still think the ending is just a stupid Satou Dai-esque cop-out. It's just a really uncreative Matrix rip-off of an anti-climax where it feels like not even the characters can explain the events that transpired. It was just a really, really poor decision to make Shimamura that overpowered, and it's ridiculous that he was somehow able to hack every cyberbrain on earth. It's a deus ex machine at its finest. At some point, I'll come back to it to see if my opinion somehow changes and/or if the time between watches gives me some clarity.