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On one hand, I get what you mean with the clash of tones in the Lupe bath scene, but on another I sort of value that dissonant feeling as its seldom seen in most works, especially modern times. That chaotic, haphazard, uncomfortable tone is something I feel Tomino revels in.

I'm not too sure on the whole Fuala bells motif either. Maybe something to do with Shintoism, spiritualism and reincarnation, seeing as she's assumed dead for most of the show and rocks up all unexpected close to the end, as if revived. Haven't really looked into it, but if I were to guess, it would be something along those lines.

In terms of what Victory was trying to say about Women and Soil, specifically, it's hard to say. I've always read it as a general comment on the cyclical nature of life/how war interrupts and changes life. The show focuses pretty intently on how children are effected by war, and in the case of Marvet, her child is born during the war/she met her partner through circumstances related to the war. So (this will sound passé) while war takes life, literally--and in the case of child soldiers, forever altering their lives--it also breathes new life, both literally and ideologically. Women have a significant part to play in this, ergo the focus on Queen Maria and her Matriarchal ideology. Ultimately the *whatever the enemy faction was called in the show's* goal is anti-war (according the Maria), but to establish and spread their ideology, war is necessary. Honestly, I'd need to rewatch the show to really lock-in on Victory's specific themes and messaging. It's been too long since I've seen it, and I'm too drunk now to explain my thoughts well (woo, 2025 in Aus soon!). Also, I think in the case of the bikini squad, wasn't Katejina technically their superior, giving them no choice but to obey? Look at the Nuremberg trials. People can do horrible, stupid shit when pressured by someone higher up the chain.

I liked both the colour and the greyscale, but I think you're right, the greyscale def had more of a mood.

I hope you had a great Christmas and have a fantastic New Year!

Yo, again, sorry for the very delayed reply. I'll comment as best I can rn.

In terms of Tomino, it's no secret that Victory was where he started to crash out, as people my age, and me, myself, would say. I don't know exactly how true it is, in specifics, but people refer to this period of time as Tomino's depression era. From what I've read, he seemed pretty fed up and dissociated from the IP, to the point where, at the celebration party for the final episode airing, all he was talking about was how he screwed up with the final shot.

Deaths in Victory, including the early parts with Shrike team, honestly never seemed too egregious to me. I can't remember if I've typed this before, but Victory feels like the final iteration, and logical conclusion, of the Gundam 0079 formula. In their place in the narrative, the deaths feel logical and work for me. War is hell type stuff, yada yada. I know the dramatic irony is pretty heavy-handed, but Tomino stuff is usually like that anyway. I recognize the critique, though.

I had to look up Lupe Cineau to remember the character and, yeah, how could've I forgotten her, lol. I can't say the bathtub scene is exactly titillating but it was pretty damn funny. I don't think she's meant to be a pedo, nor do I think the scene was meant to be sexual for the characters (maybe fanservice for the audience, I guess, idk). The show comments a lot about maternity and motherhood, so I'm sure there was meant to be a commentary of some sort there regarding that. A lot of my reading of the show comes from an interview Tomino did with Anno where they mention this phrase in reference to Victory, "Women and Soil." Basically, exploring the dichotomy of maternity and death and how opposed those concepts are. There's a strange dissonance when those topics mesh--so Lupe at once mothering Uso while trying to kill him in the same breath is probably an instance of those themes coming together.

I don't know a huge amount about it, but Japanese gender relations, especially in the 90s, where still, I guess you could say sexist. Women were definitely seen as less important socially and career-wise. Essentially, I don't think those dialogue examples you gave are intentional moments of sexism, but simply attitudes influenced by the context of the time. I don't think Tomino ever hated women, but he certainly had a strained relationship with women and femininity at the time, which informs some of Victory's context, I guess. This is important to know because after essentially healing his relationship with women he went on to write Brain Powerd and Turn A which have heavily contrasting, far less cynical stances on that subject matter. Keep in mind, though, I'm heavily oversimplifying it, lel. I highly recommend Feez's blog, Moon Cocoon, which goes more in-depth on this period of his life (between Victory and Turn A).

I'm pretty tired rn, so if there was anything specific you wanted me to comment on, just point it out :) Very happy you ended up loving Victory, though. Despite it's flaws, it's an absolutely fascinating piece of animation, way overhated by even diehard fans of the franchise. And yeah, Katijana is a marval; one of my favourite characters in anime, for sure. I even made a whole AMV of her, lol. Love that artwork you posted on your IG, too!

Thanks, man. I'm out of the worst of I think. All I gotta worry about now is my piece of shit car not exploding, lol. I've yet to see 0083 but I've heard and seen great things about MS Team. I similarly love Kawamoto's art and that time period was him at his peak so, whether or not I agree with your take on the story, it'll certainly be a visual treat. I agree with everything about F91. I don't know if I'm misremembering, but I believe I heard it was meant to be a light reboot of the series, which could have been good if it had a whole 50 or so episode to really build something. Historically, I feel Tomino has always needed a long runtime to establish his cast and get into the nuance of his themes. It's very rare he does succinct well; CCA and Rean are the only times he's managed it (not counting Be Invoked). Anyway, yes the opening scene is pretty spectacular.

Haven't touched much of the Gundam tie-in literature. I've heard great things about Crossbone Gundam and the novel Beltorchika's Children, which is an alternate take on CCA. At this point, I should try to find the Hathaway novel somewhere because the movie sequels are taking fucking forever! On that Char manga, I'm not surprised it turned out to be fan-fictiony. Every new Gundam release with Char has either fellated him way too much or attempted to destroy his character.

Loved reading that ZZ rant, lmao. Apart of me wants to revisit it to solidify my feelings on it, but that would involve watching it and I ain't doin that.

I was the same way about the combining mechs when I first saw ZZ—they're just so overtly toy-commercial bait, and while that is still true for Victory, I feel it works better. Having the mech all divided up helps the crew transport it undetected. It feels more like weaponry created for gorilla warfare, so its perfect for the rebels. The Victory Gundam is pretty minimal and sleek too, unlike the McDonalds toy-looking ZZ. And yeha, I love the look of the show. It took me a while to realize what it was in particular, but I think the solid, muted colours and lack of shading is what, ironically, makes all the characters pop. It also animates pretty well for an early 90s show, where I find a lot of other shows that came out around then felt super stiff and stilted. The music, too—fantastic. It's by the FMAB guy.

Ya, sorry I’ve only gotten to this now. I had a break from anime to focus on uni and work and all that.

Yeah, ZZ exists in this weird kind of plane where it has this light-hearted, goofy, 80s overtone, but maintains plot elements which desperately grasp at threads from the first two Gundam iterations. It’s been a good couple years since I’ve seen it so, to my memory, it strikes a balance fairly well at times but is never consistent with it.
Honestly, while reading your post I was trying to remember which one was Mashymre and which one was Glemy because, in my mind, I’m thinking they’re the same character, lol. So, yeah, my take on ZZ might be a little less fresh. Tbh, I remember liking Chara; she was pretty funny and had a fantastic design. I remember her voice being super sexy, which is sad, cause her VA has only ever done ZZ according to MAL.

Moon Moon was pretty grim iirc. The big problem there was that I didn’t mind the setup—what with a surviving Yazan sneaking around and Kamille all braindead—but then the show proceeds to have like zero stakes and feels totally unsubstantial till about when the opening changes, or whenever it was when Judau runs into Haman.
I thought Puru wasn’t the best character, but I enjoyed the dynamic she brought the group. And yeah, ZZ gave Fa and Kamille a brilliant epilogue. I’ll always stand by this ending over Tomino’s retcon for them in the Zeta films. Speaking of Tomino, apparently the reason why there was such a tonal whiplash between Z and ZZ was because of Tomino’s wife telling him that Z was far too depressing, lol.

I had no doubt you’d love CCA. In terms of legit films Tominos done, CCA would be his best. Even Oshii says it Tomino’s magnum opus. Technically astounding, brimming with emotion and some of the most nuanced character work in Char. The music too—ahh, so good. In terms of bridging the gap between Zeta and CCA, there’s actually this Zeta PS1 game which ends with Char’s perspective of the final battle. It sheds a little more light on his heel turn to Neo Zeon, though it’s pretty damn truncated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQMz7YHPIiI&ab_channel=CharredAznable

I see you’ve made headway into Victory! I’d still say Victory is Gundam perfected—every theme from 0079 is done better in Victory. Just don’t let the haters steer you astray, hehe. And yeah, highly recommend non-Gundam Tomino works. I’ve still yet to finish Xabungle or watch L-Gaim, but I almost don’t want to cause its nice knowing there’s still Tomino-kino I’ve yet to experience. There’s really nothing like his stuff. Ookouchi’s writing is similar but the directing of shows he’s attached to lack the same auteurist quality Tomino brings.

Aye, thanks. I appreciate the message :)

Bloody hell having people call jintai by its English name and rare makes me realise I’ve been here way too long lol. Request accepted, cheers!

Certified based chad.

Certified YAPPERS on this dufus profile

No doubt, when E7 looks good, it's the best-looking TV anime. It has its moments of visual inconsistency here and there, but it's to be expected from a 50-episode production. I've been an E7 shill for years and spoke its praises to many, so I'd be stoked to talk about it again. And I'm fucking loving Gunslinger Girl! I've been trying not to burn through it too fast, but yes, the show is gorgeous. I found out about its OP, and with a song as beautiful as that, I felt compelled to watch it immediately. I had actually read a little bit of the manga in high school, though I didn't gel with the art style, so it's been on hold for a few years. I know people don't really like the sequel show by Arthouse, so I might have to go back and pick up the manga to enjoy the full story.

Ah, I thought you'd seen E7. You got some great shows to look forward to then. And it's good you saw 0079 before E7 because the latter takes a lot of inspiration from the former, so you'll be able to draw comparisons and notice where certain ideas came from. Do you still plan on watching ZZ or going straight to CCA? I have a feeling you'll enjoy Judau a lot more than Kamille; he's a pretty fun MC.

Def a fair criticism. Ideas tend to be reused quite frequently in Gundam. My only guess as to why this was done—repeating Rosamia's character with Four (I can't remember which one shows up first lol)—would be to hammer home the idea that the Federation's Cyber Newtype program is operating on a relatively worrying scale, and has the ability to destroy these girls' minds by forcing them to 'evolve' in a manner defying nature. To my memory, Rosamia was just an introduction to Cyber Newtypes. In contrast, Four exemplified the extent to which these girls are made to be mentally unstable weapons created solely for conflict by the 'good guys.' Maybe the in-canon reason why they were so similar was because the programming and conditioning erased much of their sense of self?

Kamille and Four really could have been in love but, to me, it was doomed from the start, and I think that was pretty clearly conveyed (again it's been a good couple years since I've seen Zeta; so I could be misremembering). Leave it to me to make another E7 comparison, but their relationship is like if Eureka was too far gone to romantically connect with Renton. Idk, nothing about Four's feelings felt real, like between psychological breaks Four was just latching onto whatever feelings of affection were nearest, and not, "I love this guy: Kamille Biden." Along the way, Kamille probably did fall in love with her, but it was never something Four would've been able to reciprocate realistically. Maybe I'm using the term "love" too strictly here lol.

Yes, based Ima Soku enjoyer! I remember seeing somewhere that the director, Akitarou Daichi, was inspired to write the story from reading about the genocide and use of child soldiers in Rwanda, however, the WW2 allusions are also apparent. The critical message being that while the show situates itself in another world—an isekai—similar things were already taking place in Shu's peaceful world back home, and not just someplace far away in Africa, but some years prior in his own backyard during the Nanking massacre. And yeah, I'd agree with the pro-life message being outdated. Tbh, I actually forgot about her wanting to keep the baby, but, yeah, I don't think I could ever forget that rape scene. Probably one of the most confronting scenes in the medium. Anyway, yes, Kurata is a phenomenal writer. I haven't seen Kamichu yet, but both Junketsu no Maria and Kannagi were super unique shows.

Yo, thanks for getting back to me on the Gundam talk! I'll cut to the chase, I'm a big fan of Zeta, but even I acknowledge it has some pretty glaring flaws. The criticism I'll agree with most here is the repetitive nature of the whole thing. Having mech battles happen pretty much every episode with mostly zero stakes takes a lot of life and flow out of the narrative and can generally be a slog to sit through at times. Although, the general episode structure, and the copious space mech battles therein, was a mandate from Sunrise, so for the most part, Tomino and the storyboarders didn't really have a choice but to include regular conflicts and a deluge of new mechs every couple eps. I haven't read any of his Gundam novels—which the TV scripts were adapted from—but to my understanding, they're pretty clean of fat and repetition, so they could be the better way to experience the story.

Personally, I think Kamille was different enough from Amuro to be a fresh take. Like, yes, he matures as the narrative goes, but most mecha pilots do. I could say the same about Shinji and Renton who, ostensibly, share the same arc (hell, Renton actually shares a lot with Amuro, too), but my perception of those characters are completely different because of their dialogue, motivations, designs and personalities—same as Amuro and Kamille. Where I think Amuro was a pretty babyfaced, idealistic, normal kid, chewed up and spat out by the war machine, Kamille is a petulant, impulsive brat who has no real goals or empathy, which he develops throughout the series (at least that's how I perceive those two, it's been a while since I've watched either Gundam). Anyway, that dynamic between the two MCs makes it all the more interesting when we see them interact together, where Amuro has pretty much completed his arc and Kamille is still going through his. Jerid, too, I thought was great, being this cocksure, prideful antagonist who has those closest taken away and is consistently outperformed by some kid. It's an interesting take on the mecha antagonist/rival, and you end up feeling sorry for him most of the time despite him being the one who killed Kamille's mother even though it was a misunderstanding. And my whole take on Kamille and Four is that she never had the capacity to actually be in love with him and was just simply enamoured with him due to Newtype shenanigans and such, nor do I think Kamille actually loved Four. The only actual romance for Kamille was Fa. While I like the series' ending for dramatic purposes, their relationship worked a bit better in the films, which tweaked the ending slightly.

I think the criticism I hear the most for Zeta is that the characters are too annoying and act irrationally, with specific emphasis put on Reccoa. To put it simply, to me, this is the appeal of Tomino's more hard-boiled dramas. It's a writing quirk you come to appreciate if you haven't already. The idea that conflicts in Tomino anime stem from characters acting purely on emotion or misunderstanding without all the facts, and that situations could simply be diffused by reasonable communication between characters but is often lost in the chaos of battle. G-Reco basically takes this idea and puts it on steroids, lol.

Interested to see what you think of ZZ. It's a strange case where the people who like Zeta hate ZZ, and the people who hate Zeta like ZZ. From memory, it takes a while to really get going, but maybe the change of pace and tone will gel with you more than the heavy-handed nature of the Zeta drama. And I'd say skip the first episode cause it's just a recap. What'd you think of Ima Soku ni Iru Boku btw? Love that show.

Thanks, man. Digging the Fujimoto and Joshikouhei being so high up is based.

yea stuff like Kubik, Tsukiko being around all the time and some other stuff are clearly still out there to pay attention to

iirc author mentioned them in the post-manga interview that it came with. Its definitely inspired by Apocalypse Now, 12 Monkeys, Space Odyssey and Gundam among other things

I haven't even seen the 0079 TV series myself. The movies seem like, and probably are, the better package overall. They are long asf though and the pacing can be brutal, but the ideas and characters are golden.