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Days: 152.0
Mean Score: 5.80
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Paprika
Paprika
Aug 11, 2017 9:11 PM
Completed 1/1 · Scored 9
Boku no Hero Academia
Boku no Hero Academia
Aug 11, 2017 9:10 PM
Watching 5/13 · Scored -
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Digimon Adventure
Aug 11, 2017 9:10 PM
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One Punch-Man
One Punch-Man
Nov 25, 2015 7:52 AM
Reading 58/? · Scored 10
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Nanatsu no Taizai
Nov 25, 2015 5:12 AM
Reading 105/364 · Scored -
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Uzumaki
Sep 14, 2015 1:17 AM
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chaosflame5 Mar 18, 2015 4:24 PM
By your review, I thought you never actually know anything about F/SN and the routes, which is why I mentioned the visual novel into the comment, but glad you know something about F/SN, as it's easier for discussions. I wasn't even comparing the VN with the anime, since indeed, there are faults with the anime compare to the VN, so I'm aware of that, especially how underpowered Berserker was compare to how he meant to be in UBW route. Sounds like you haven't seen that review video yet, or else you'll know by now that in the Bluray (BD) release, there will be 90 minutes of extra content in it, which had to be cut out from the TV version, in order to fit the airing times of the Japanese TV channels and still make the anime flow. This is why I decided to prevent myself from writing a review until the extended BD version comes out and finish watching it....or better yet, finish all 3 routes of the VN before writing about the anime adaptations so I can contrast them. This goes for F/Z too, which also has extra content for both cours in the BD version, which I've yet to re-watch soon once I finish with reading the VN of F/SN. You're actually wrong that Ufotable left the other two routes in the dark...well...who knows about the Fate route though, since there isn't an adaptation of that route yet (there is, but I'll come to that later why there really isn't an adaptation of the Fate route), but Heaven's Feel route is actually going to be released as a movie soon (http://myanimelist.net/anime/25537/Fate/stay_night:_Heavens_Feel), or more preferred, a movie series like another Type Moon's work called Kara no Kyoukai (made by Ufotable as well), which happens in the same universe as Fate series, but in a different city. I assume Ufotable might decide to adapt the Fate route after adapting Heaven's Feel route, which is why I'm praying for it. HF route is the darkest route from what I heard despite the pacing can be slow in the VN in order to get all the details there, and Sakura is actually a Master there instead of Shinji, and there is a darker version of Saber called Saber Alter that only appear there too, So I hope the first movie will be released soon either this year or in 2016.
Now on to the reason of why the Fate route adaptation done by Studio Deen back in 2006 was such a crappy version (and simultaneously answers why put all 3 routes together is a bad idea). Deen's F/SN version was considered the most rubbish attempt by VN fans. It destroyed Shirou's character and Saber's character wasn't fleshed out well, and they added lots of anime-original material and tried to cram all 3 routes into a 24-episode anime series. This, just won't work and as a result, nothing can be fleshed out well, and which is why the story seemed weak in the end and felt vague and bleak. So Deen tried to put 3 routes into one already, but failed. And also, if they make an original route and make it a 4th route, which, will defeat the purpose of the route divergence altogether and just won't work. I asked in here once (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1331915&show=1980#post1995), and some VN readers answered that it just won't work. I guess this won't be obvious to me until I finish the entire VN. But I do get why so far, just hard to explain.

By "pitfall", I meant that, F/Z is a prequel as you know, and unlike some prequels of movies or TV series maybe, where no knowledge would be needed beforehand, but F/Z requires the knowledge of F/SN - all routes. If you are a person who doesn't care about being spoiled the crap out of yourself and only like to see how the whole lore progress chronologically (like reading a wiki), then there is nothing wrong with starting F/Z before reading or watching any of the F/SN routes. But, if you want plot twists or things that were hidden and not revealed much and preferred to be revealed at the right time...yet being spoiled tons due to watching a prequel first (which reveals everything that F/SN hides...especially in HF route), then that is the pitfall. This means you won't be able to enjoy F/SN as much as you would compare to having no knowledge of the 4th HGW in F/Z. Another reason why this is a pitfall was the expectations of F/SN anime after coming out from F/Z. F/SN meant to be different from F/Z, which is why I feel sorry for those who came out from F/Z and got disappointed. This is why I think it's a bad move for Ufotable to adapt the light novel of F/Z first before touching a route from F/SN visual novel. As the way how the Fate series can be enjoyed would be different. Maybe they never thought they would touch F/SN until sometime afterwards. But what's done is done...This is why I said that F/Z is like a chapter or two from a history book, it meant to be read (or watched) after you know something of the aftermath or events that happened after that. For me it doesn't really affect my enjoyment since I like exploring the lore anyway, instead of waiting for things to be revealed in the right time. And I think HF route will be the one that explains the HGW better, which is why the system of F/SN is meant to be a route divergence.
From what you said about character/plot driven, I get it now. Though F/SN is still a character-driven series. It may not be obvious in this first cour of UBW anime, unless you know all three routes inside out. It centres on Shirou and his decisions, it's mainly his decisions that drives the plot forward and what to do from there will be his consequence. Even as simple as meeting Person A instead of meeting Person B in a normal day (when battles cannot be done during the day due to secrecy) affects the intimacy of him with a character, hence the influence of the events. Battle-wise, an example will be how Archer will not be a support fire for Saber during her vs. Berserker fight, if Shirou actually did not use his first spell from the Command Seal on his hand to stop Saber from attacking Archer in an earlier event. As a result due to that, Saber would be suffer greatly from a massive injury like this pic here: http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/2071/452279-a10.jpg, since she would be fighting alone and will not have the time to move to the graveyard in Fate route and (possibly) HF route, as that graveyard would be her combat advantage as shown in UBW route. So if it's plot-driven, then more likely even the VN of F/SN would just be this one single story like how F/Z was done, instead of a divergence of routes due to different decisions. Still, we'll see if Ufotable will be doing a good job in showing this in HF movie soon....and since there are 40 bad endings in the VN, it's clear that decision is the thing that drive plot forward, so it's completely character-driven (like Shirou dies for going downstairs of the church instead of leave the church and live). Unless after watching all the future anime adaptations of other routes and seem to be plot-driven, then it would be indeed taken a different direction compare to how it was in the VN. And after watching what the guy in the video said, I actually agree with him that Rin isn't actually the typical tsundere. There are reasons why she became like this, the harsh environment that she grew up in is the reason to make it short, and of course, she lost her parents, so that hardship made her like that, and also how she has to be act perfect and has the pressure to win the Grail War in the name of the Tosaka family etc. The first cour only has a bit indication, so I guess that's why you thought she is a generic tsundere. But a generic tsundere is a natural-born tsundere, so it's different imo.

And again, it's only the first cour of a route. I vaguely mentioned previously how some Servants can be weak or doing nothing much before getting killed off like a crisp in UBW, Rider in this case was a primary example, like those Assassins in F/Z, which I don't remember they do much nor explored their pasts before being killed by Iskandar (Rider) in a Reality Marble with his spiritual army in a desert. This is how F/SN supposed to work, they make some Servants (and maybe Masters too) weak as hell and/or less focused in one route, while they were completely focused and/or overpowered in other route(s). This is a way to make you focus on the ones to be focused so they'll be known and fleshed out better on one or two routes. You will be saying completely opposite things about Saber and Archer if this UBW anime was an anime adaptation of the Fate route, where Saber was greatly focused while Archer was...just your known Archer Servant in F/SN and nothing more, he won't be shine as much compare to UBW route and his identity will not be revealed in Fate route (or vaguely perhaps). Fate route is Saber's route as mentioned, which is why she will have all the moments she gets to get developed, this is likewise in UBW, which is Archer's route, hence it is Archer who actually developed well instead of Saber - who unfortunately to your disappointment, will only be a supporting character and not going to develop as much as Fate route. This is the same for Sakura, who won't be an important character like you saw in F/Z until you see HF route, which is her route, so it's Sakura who will be developed. Someone described Archer as a "weak sauce" in HF route, so you'll be saying how Archer is weak in that route while he is such a strong and manly character in UBW. So it's all depending on which route, hence the focuses of characters and treatment of them will be different. Some are killed easily in one route like breaking a twig, while they would be strong and hard to defeat in other routes. This is why it's nowhere to be plot-driven, if a character is weak, then others will kill them off easily before they can even show their Nobel Phantasms (NPs). Or have all the moment for them to summon their NPs and shine and be admired. And I get what you mean regarding the power levels not relevant to how they were well written.

I like to discuss when there are different opinions, so thanks as well for showing all your opinions here. And though I would say that, this really meant to be a 25-26 episode series, so it's not really a "season", so making comparison already for a half done show just isn't convincing yet. I don't know why Ufotable split this whole series into two halves like Fate/Zero, but I suppose that's just how things work.
chaosflame5 Mar 18, 2015 2:54 AM
One problem with Fate/stay night is that, if one watches Fate/Zero first, then they are in a big pitfall. Ufotable made a big mistake in adapting F/Z first. F/SN visual novel has 3 routes/scenarios, namely: Fate (Saber's route), Unlimited Blade Works (Rin/Archer's route), and Heaven's Feel (Sakura and Rider's route) and F/SN is character driven and deals with Shirou's ideals and decisions, which were different and hence the route divergence. While F/Z is like a chapter or two from a history book telling you about the 4th Holy Grail War as a complement info, which is why it has to bring all the characters and have their moments to shine and story-driven. I haven't read much of the VN yet other than the prologue, but from research and reading, I can tell you that the VN is on par with F/Z. UBW is only one-third of the whole jigsaw, so you won't get everything all in one go in just one route, even after the second cour of the new UBW anime. Second half of UBW will definitely get better, especially when Archer's true identity will be revealed. And this route is clash of ideals. VN readers actually preferred F/SN Servants than F/Z Servants and saying that many F/Z Servants would actually lose to ones from F/SN. Some Servants you see in UBW are weak. but this is just one route, Rider for example, is actually quite overpowered in Fate and HF route from what I researched. And this goes for how characters' roles too, some shines only in one route or two, while others either die or live depending on which route. So you got one thing right, UBW isn't a real sequel to F/SN and both were written by different authors and taken different views to the Grail Wars. This review by a user on MAL is helpful in clear things up, and some rants in which he explains in the end, so hope that helps. (Video in spoiler button)
And the thread where he posted the video: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1337099
It’s time to ditch the text file.
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