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They just hate it and continue to watch just to convince themselves that a series is bad and continue to call any fan of said series a tard. That's the pinnacle of stupidity and in the case of some people they are completely deluded in their own bubble. Bleach isn't perfect and has flaws, but to just shit on it is another thing in itself.

Bleachtard_N1 | 1 hour ago
So, now you are pretending like you've decided to end this debate. Nice one. Don't worry, your embarrassment will be left on this site for everyone to see.
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DoctorDumbo | 4 hours ago
You again try to twist the arguement without making an actual point yet still trying to sound smug. I never said bleach isn't no.1 because of its 1/10's I said its not because of 1/10 spammers. If you check literally every single account created for downvoted they also upvote something else, ie. 1/10 spammers = 10/10 spammers.

I could by your same logic remove all 10/10s from the calculation and come out with a different result solely removing all 1/10s is irrelevant because it doesn't tackle the issue at heart.

btw if bleach gets 2600 "fake" 1/10s it doesn't mean it also gets 2600 "fake" 10/10s. It's spam downvoters aren't also its spam upvoters.

The only provable fact in this whole discussion that you are still ignoring is the fact that if you sit in the recent ratings for both you'll find much more 1/10's for FMAB while barely seeing any for bleach.

But it seems we'll just be going in circles here and you're being antagonistic through this whole discussion so why don't we just end it here.
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Bleachtard_N1 | 11 hours ago
Formula to rub it in your wounds:
((10×38576+9×8527+8×4369+7×1831+6×521+5×300+4×115+3×69+2×115)−10×21000)÷(38576+8527+4369+1831+521+300+115+69+115−21000)=9,1492385483
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Bleachtard_N1 | 11 hours ago
"That ignores two important facts: 1. Spam voters also vote their anime 10/10 while downvoting other anime."
Excuses, excuses, excuses. You never mentioned 10/10 spamming in your original post. You just can't take responsibility for your own words, even when proof is before your eyes. You can stop trying to convince me that you were right, it's not going happen. You are wasting your and my time. And just for fun let's pretend like around the same amount of people gave those shows 10 (38000 for FMAB ana 2600 for Bleach)
FMAB:
((10×932259+9×531591+8×270319+7×96749+6×28627+5×13626+4×4899+3×2384+2×2966)−10×38000)÷(932259+531591+270319+96749+28627+13626+4899+2384+2966−38000)=9,1249016484
Bleach:
((10×38576+9×8527+8×4369+7×1831+6×521+5×300+4×115+3×69+2×115)−10×2600)÷(38576+8527+4369+1831+521+300+115+69+115−2600)=9,4513054049
Bleach will still win. 😏 Right now FMAB can win only if we pretend that FMAB have 0 fake 10s and Bleach have more than 21000.
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DoctorDumbo | Yesterday, 3:06 PM
Just wanted to continue the discussion considering the thread got locked.

"Doesn't mean anything? So, it doesn't mean how much people gave this show a 1? 😏"

I don't know if you don't understand statistics or just choose not to. If we're going by "how much people gave this show a 1? 😏" Then FMAB has 38440 people while bleach has 2601. If we want to know how many of those watching either gave them 1/10 then FMAB is 1.277% while bleach has 0.993%. The stat you're using excludes anyone who decide not to rate as if they don't exist for some reason. But if you want to actually measure the amount of people who decide to give 1 relatively it doesn't make sense to make that exclusion.

"Ok, let's exclude 1s for both FMAB and Bleach, then do some basic math.
FMAB:
(10×932259+9×531591+8×270319+7×96749+6×28627+5×13626+4×4899+3×2384+2×2966)÷(932259+531591+270319+96749+28627+13626+4899+2384+2966)=9,1425576876
Bleach:
(10×38576+9×8527+8×4369+7×1831+6×521+5×300+4×115+3×69+2×115)÷(38576+8527+4369+1831+521+300+115+69+115)=9,4775186961
Are you still going to tell us that spammers is not the reason why Bleach isn't №1?"

That ignores two important facts: 1. Spam voters also vote their anime 10/10 while downvoting other anime. 2. Not all 1/10 are spam voters. As it is merely excluding all 1/10's does not tell you how the ratings would be if their weren't spam voters.

"Out of top 5 most popular anime of this season 4 are sequels and your favourite fanboy/hater dynamic doesn't work in 3 of those."

Gintama the final has 2.525% and Gintama the fourth season has 1.305% 1/10s both higher than bleach while the other gintama's are also comparable to bleach's 1/10. You can look at some other anime below the top 10 and you would find some with comparable percentages.

"Or this excuses your misrepresentation of facts? In your opinion it is ok to rape and kill people as long as someone else does it? I guess so."

I'm merely stating that FMAB is being brigaded on a much larger scale than bleach as in bleach has no excuse if FMAB gets hit more by it and is still topping. Downvote brigading is a thing you have to accept in this website but the thing is the bleach community is the one whining the most as if they're the ones most targeted.

Original thread: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2054265#post30

You again try to twist the arguement without making an actual point yet still trying to sound smug. I never said bleach isn't no.1 because of its 1/10's I said its not because of 1/10 spammers. If you check literally every single account created for downvoted they also upvote something else, ie. 1/10 spammers = 10/10 spammers.

I could by your same logic remove all 10/10s from the calculation and come out with a different result solely removing all 1/10s is irrelevant because it doesn't tackle the issue at heart.

btw if bleach gets 2600 "fake" 1/10s it doesn't mean it also gets 2600 "fake" 10/10s. It's spam downvoters aren't also its spam upvoters.

The only provable fact in this whole discussion that you are still ignoring is the fact that if you sit in the recent ratings for both you'll find much more 1/10's for FMAB while barely seeing any for bleach.

But it seems we'll just be going in circles here and you're being antagonistic through this whole discussion so why don't we just end it here.

I'm pretty critical and try to be as objective as I can, so it's extremely difficult for me to give something a 10. There's a few non-anime shows that are for close to it for me but for Anime not yet from the ones I've seen so far. I am in the middle of Monster and it's shaping up to be close to a 10, but I need to finish it. Anyways, my problem is users mostly giving a show a 10 just because they like it and not critically thinking about it.

Just wanted to continue the discussion considering the thread got locked.

"Doesn't mean anything? So, it doesn't mean how much people gave this show a 1? 😏"

I don't know if you don't understand statistics or just choose not to. If we're going by "how much people gave this show a 1? 😏" Then FMAB has 38440 people while bleach has 2601. If we want to know how many of those watching either gave them 1/10 then FMAB is 1.277% while bleach has 0.993%. The stat you're using excludes anyone who decide not to rate as if they don't exist for some reason. But if you want to actually measure the amount of people who decide to give 1 relatively it doesn't make sense to make that exclusion.

"Ok, let's exclude 1s for both FMAB and Bleach, then do some basic math.
FMAB:
(10×932259+9×531591+8×270319+7×96749+6×28627+5×13626+4×4899+3×2384+2×2966)÷(932259+531591+270319+96749+28627+13626+4899+2384+2966)=9,1425576876
Bleach:
(10×38576+9×8527+8×4369+7×1831+6×521+5×300+4×115+3×69+2×115)÷(38576+8527+4369+1831+521+300+115+69+115)=9,4775186961
Are you still going to tell us that spammers is not the reason why Bleach isn't №1?"

That ignores two important facts: 1. Spam voters also vote their anime 10/10 while downvoting other anime. 2. Not all 1/10 are spam voters. As it is merely excluding all 1/10's does not tell you how the ratings would be if their weren't spam voters.

"Out of top 5 most popular anime of this season 4 are sequels and your favourite fanboy/hater dynamic doesn't work in 3 of those."

Gintama the final has 2.525% and Gintama the fourth season has 1.305% 1/10s both higher than bleach while the other gintama's are also comparable to bleach's 1/10. You can look at some other anime below the top 10 and you would find some with comparable percentages.

"Or this excuses your misrepresentation of facts? In your opinion it is ok to rape and kill people as long as someone else does it? I guess so."

I'm merely stating that FMAB is being brigaded on a much larger scale than bleach as in bleach has no excuse if FMAB gets hit more by it and is still topping. Downvote brigading is a thing you have to accept in this website but the thing is the bleach community is the one whining the most as if they're the ones most targeted.

"It was example of "already popular and commercially successful manga beating everyone". You can exclude Bleach from that example and left only Chainsaw Man if you want, it won't change anything that it shows." It shows anime community likes it in 2022, we're talking about its loss in popularity during publication among the manga community, still nothing to do with the subject

But if you want to talk about popularity among anime community, numbers are not that good either.
It's only the 5th most popular show this season with 250k members, pretty low considering 800k members are supposed to have completed the original show. Actually, that 800k completion itself is low for its overall members number, it's not even half. Why ? Because Bleach is also the most dropped anime on MAL https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/tkqe1q/bleach_stands_as_the_most_dropped_anime_on_mal/
Even though it is far from as long as One Piece or Naruto. Again, why would so much people give up on the show if they were not bored ?

The rankings are popularity polls among WSJ readers about which chapter was the best this week, of course it doesn't reflect sales in their totality, I never said it did. Sales depend on a lot of things, Sumo is a niche sport, so Hinomaru obviously sold less than Haikyuu, but that doesn't change the fact that among WSJ readers, Hinomaru was thought to have the best chapter that week, and both of them were really liked among the WSJ readers.
Bleach, on the other hand, was almost always among the less liked.

So now, let me ask you why would a really good performing like bleach manga like Bleach, ranking top 5 in the WSJ almost every week, fall down in the rankings until being among the last almost every week. Not only that, why would the sales start falling really fast AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, reaching 60% of what they once were, while other manga don't seem to run into the same trouble, excluding a global market drop ? Just happenstance ?
The only thing I see is a loss in quality, leading to a lot of people not enjoying it anymore, and I'm not the only one who thinks that, hence the MAL topics talking about the manga's drop in quality / popularity
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1544355
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1680912

"So, you are telling me that people who are buying "50 shades of gray" do not like it? Then why are they still buying it? This is illogical." You need to buy it to know if you like it, nothing illogical. Book is bad -> people talk about it -> gives visibility -> new people buy it because they know the name and are curious. There's no bad advertisement

"Even if we'll take worst chapter of One Piece and compare it to the best chapter of One Punch-Man, One Piece will still win the poll, because sales of One Piece are like 6 times bigger." No because the voters numbers are the same for both, this is precisely why WSJ uses this method rather than sales to determine the popularity of their manga. If One Piece did a shitty chapter, then it would reflect on its ranking just like another manga

It's a popularity poll, readers vote for what manga they prefer, Bleach was among the less voted, the evidence is in the goddamn name

The debate was about global loss in popularity among manga readers during the manga publication, which is clearly shown by the drop in sales, and whether or not it was really indicating a loss in quality. You're talking about the popularity of the anime among the western english speaking population in 2022. You're literally talking to talk, without any link to original subject.

Once again, the important thing here is not how much the manga sells, but how many readers left the bandwagon at the same time, creating a huge drop in sales.
And as said in the last post (please read this time) Bleach was still a really known manga, because something sells doesnt make it good. Let's take 50 shades of grey for example. Did it sell well ? Yes. Was it destroyed by everyone and their mother ? Yes. Is it globally popular ? Hell no. It was liked by people who followed trend/ads and didn't know a lot about literature, in their opinion it was good because they didn't know what good is.
Bleach, in the beginning, was a really popular shonen among shonen jump readers, and was globally thought to be better than most of the other manga, so it was highly voted and bought by those people who knew and read the other manga. Good manga = big anime, advertisement ... the manga becomes a trend. Japanese people who read manga occasionally see a big hit, they buy. After volume 48 (which a lot of people thought would be the end) the manga begins falling gradually in the popularity poll results, shonen jump readers are disappointed, they gradually stop buying the volumes since they read all the other hits, with more consistent quality. Obviously, sales drop a lot, and anime gets canceled. However, the manga is still well known, and all the occasional readers, who are obviously easier to please, continue to read, hence the still pretty high sales.

If you're still not convinced, there are lots of topics on mal published during publication of the manga, where you can get the numbers and also lots of former readers talking about they stopped reading the manga

Here, some reading for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/4ylnlr/bleach_was_not_as_popular_as_people_like_to_claim/

If you still don't want to believe it fell in popularity in a spectacular way, not comparable to the fall in popularity every long manga face, and unique at the time when it did (aka, not something linked to the market, others manga were still selling as consistently as before at the time), then I give up

PS: Just to answer something you said which made me laugh a lot, "Are you sure that "place in the magazine = popularity"? Are you chief editor? I personally have hard time believing that manga with sales of 500.000 is outvoted by mangas who sold much less." It is called a POPULARITY poll. Have you ever heard that "big sales doesn't good" ? Because it became unpopular doesn't mean it became unknown, other manga in the poll have been there for a shorter period of time, so yes they sell less, because less marketing has been put in, most do not have yet heard of them. Why do you think they killed the anime ? Because the popularity fell and the sales were crumbling