| https://twitter.com/melomelochin/status/1186877132762304513 https://twitter.com/miko02xxx/status/1186936005066022912 what do you think ? UPDATE: The production committee is looking into it. https://twitter.com/hoshiaino_sora/status/1187296705445679104?s=19 UPDATE #2: Statement from the production committee : https://twitter.com/hoshiaino_sora/status/1189907550189154304?s=19 Translated from Google Translate : ''About the ending animation of "Hoshiai no Sora" In the process of creating the ending animation for this work, we did not confirm in advance with Merochin-sama or Ms. Shichikawa-san because of insufficient awareness of copyright. We apologize to both for the inconvenience. Thanks to the production staff, including animators, and our thoughts on this work, we were able to cooperate. In the future, we will review the production system to prevent this from happening and work on the production of this work. We hope you will continue to support this work. Hoshiai no Sora Production Committee'' |
DatRandomDudeOct 31, 2019 7:54 AM
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| I think I'll wait to hear what the studio production has to say about this, as copyrights may not apply at this point covering some of the dances, as well only the latter source lines up very closely to the anime animation. They definitely were not rotoscoped at the very least. That is clear as is. |
| I don't see a problem here, its just a dance. There is no problem with simply having a character dance a certain way. |
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SmolOwl21 said: RegalTheReaL said: I don't see a problem here, its just a dance. There is no problem with simply having a character dance a certain way. Technically, if the choreographer did have copyrights to their original dance, then it can be a messy situation if they copied a dancer's original choreography if they didn't reach out and ask permission. That isn't to say all famous dance moves are under copyrights since you see lots of them in tv shows, movies, plays, and anime. Think of it this way. Kaguya-sama hired a dancer/choreographer for the Chika dance and was properly credited for creating that dance. If Hoshiai no Sora had one character copy that dance without even talking to the dancer/choreographer and not give credit, that could spell a lot of trouble. Then again, copyrighted dance moves are a tricky thing. You can't copyright human body movement. The day that happens we have literally created the copyright police irl to arrest people just for dancing |
|
| That was really dumb of whoever directed the ED. I hope the studio gives proper credit and resolves this problem peacefully, this leaves a bad aftertase for what is such a promising anime. |
| UPDATE: The production committee is looking into it. https://twitter.com/hoshiaino_sora/status/1187296705445679104?s=19 |
|
FlatOcean said: That was really dumb of whoever directed the ED. I hope the studio gives proper credit and resolves this problem peacefully, this leaves a bad aftertase for what is such a promising anime. Oh yeah totally, the anime now is completely ruined becuz they did a dance move that already existed, yeah cant watch this anime anymore smh. *sarcasm* |
| Can't really believe some one plagiarizing dance moves. |
 |
Robiiii said: FlatOcean said: That was really dumb of whoever directed the ED. I hope the studio gives proper credit and resolves this problem peacefully, this leaves a bad aftertase for what is such a promising anime. Oh yeah totally, the anime now is completely ruined becuz they did a dance move that already existed, yeah cant watch this anime anymore smh. *sarcasm* Nobody here said anything like that, but good job taking my words and completely turning them around. |
| They tried suing Fortnite for this. The courts ruled in favor of Fortnite. |
emolano said: People are very annoying those days! Just hope nothing bad happens it's my favorite anime this season haha people are very annoying these days because an animator copied a choreography created by two idols, both discovered that and are rightfully going to get their recognization RegalTheReaL said: SmolOwl21 said: Technically, if the choreographer did have copyrights to their original dance, then it can be a messy situation if they copied a dancer's original choreography if they didn't reach out and ask permission. That isn't to say all famous dance moves are under copyrights since you see lots of them in tv shows, movies, plays, and anime. Think of it this way. Kaguya-sama hired a dancer/choreographer for the Chika dance and was properly credited for creating that dance. If Hoshiai no Sora had one character copy that dance without even talking to the dancer/choreographer and not give credit, that could spell a lot of trouble. Then again, copyrighted dance moves are a tricky thing. You can't copyright human body movement. The day that happens we have literally created the copyright police irl to arrest people just for dancing It literally is in Japan for choreography sequences, which Ebata copied from both dances in not just one movement but many. Imagine you having the work to create a choreography for someone to copy it, put in the anime ending (which will be used to push music sales) and you don't get anything for it? |
| Why would they do that!! They could've just asked for the choreographer's permission and properly credited them. It's not like they would have been rejected! Well, there is a small probability of it happening, but I am sure most people would be glad to have their work recognised. |
| Oh for fuck's sake. I've been loving this show so far, calling it the best show of the season and even specifically praising the ED last week, and now to learn that it's stolen just makes me feel frustrated. I still like this show and I want to watch it the end, but I don't think I'll be feeling as positive about it anymore. |
| You can't copyright like two dance moves that people have been doing since the beginning of time,ffs. I'm pretty sure I did this choreography for my freshman recital 20 years ago. None of the sequences are even long enough to consider unique. Utter nonsense. |
| Quality Queen. |
| damn, thats a pretty big oof for whoever decided to put that dance in the ED. sad that they might change it since i really like it, but they shouldn't just steal a choreographed dance like that. |
| Watch out! Fortnite gonna steal it now! |
 |
| It's been proven in court of law you CAN NOT copyright a dance move. On top of that, those moves are some of the most generic dance moves I've seen in my life. I've seen many people do those moves, heck, even far earlier than these dancers are claiming to have created them like ??????? This isn't original, and even if it was, the anime would still be in the legal right to recreate it. (I don't even watch this anime but lmfao had to participate in this) |
 |
narutosister said: BTDee said: It's been proven in court of law you CAN NOT copyright a dance move. On top of that, those moves are some of the most generic dance moves I've seen in my life. I've seen many people do those moves, heck, even far earlier than these dancers are claiming to have created them like ??????? This isn't original, and even if it was, the anime would still be in the legal right to recreate it. (I don't even watch this anime but lmfao had to participate in this) actully dance is a form of art, it CAN be copy righted. however: SOME SPECIFIC DANCE MOVES cant be copyrighted; like the moonwalk and some things like that that are too simple and plain that anyone can comeup with. but dance routines that were created by dancers are in fact copy righted as long as the one created it: submited a copy right claim. i dont know which court said that dance moves cant be copy righted but its wrong. "Not All Dance is Protectable Not everything that we may think of as “dance” is protectable by copyright law. For example, the following types of dance are not protectable: Social Dances: Social dance steps and simple routines are not copyrightable as choreography. For example, an application for registration of the electric slide (and other line dances) would likely be rejected, suggesting that Congress did not want to take the fun out of weddings (or that Congress did want to take the fun out of weddings, depending on your attitude towards dancing at weddings). Critical to this distinction between choreography and social dance is the identity of the intended participants. While choreography is, as discussed above, intended for skilled dancers to perform for the general public, social dances are intended to be danced by the general public. Individual Movements and Simple Routines: Much like words and short phrases (which generally are not subject to copyright protection), de minimus discrete dance steps cannot be registered for copyright protection. For instance, even though a complex choreographic work incorporating the moonwalk or a ballet plié may be registered, these individual moves may not be registered. Why? Allowing these building blocks to be protected could chill creativity and innovation. Likewise, simple routines are also not considered to be works of original creative authorship. So while those simple and short end zone dances may contain some elements of copyrightability, in that they communicate a theme or concept to an audience on a type of stage, they may nevertheless not be sufficiently complex to be registered. Ordinary motor activities and feats of physical skill. Ordinary motor activities, functional physical movements, competitive events and feats of skill or dexterity are also not considered protectable choreography, nor are sequences of movements that are intended to improve one’s physical or mental health, like yoga, exercise routines or aerobic dances. For example, if the same series of movements is used in a dance and in an ice skating routine, the latter will be far less likely to merit copyright protection because it is part of a competition. Similarly, even though juggling involves the rhythmic movement of a skilled performer, there is likely no dramatic content aside from whether the juggler will successfully keep the balls in the air. Routines not performed by humans: Although this may seem obvious, in order to be protectable, choreography must be authored by humans, and for humans. Professor Nimmer is quick to point out to that choreography made by or for animals or robots cannot be copyrighted. Sorry, dancing robots, no dice." Based on this information, simple dance moves as shown above that have been done time and time again by many dancers are not able to be copyrighted. Especially that second tweet. That is not original dance work in the slightest. Did they take these dances from these people? No doubt. Are they in their legal right to? Yep. These people did not invent these dance moves. Either way, it doesn't really matter as it appears that the company has apologized to these people and has taken responsibility for it. |
|
| Who gives a fuck, gonna sue people for doing the MJ moves in movies too? |
RegalTheReaL said: SmolOwl21 said: Technically, if the choreographer did have copyrights to their original dance, then it can be a messy situation if they copied a dancer's original choreography if they didn't reach out and ask permission. That isn't to say all famous dance moves are under copyrights since you see lots of them in tv shows, movies, plays, and anime. Think of it this way. Kaguya-sama hired a dancer/choreographer for the Chika dance and was properly credited for creating that dance. If Hoshiai no Sora had one character copy that dance without even talking to the dancer/choreographer and not give credit, that could spell a lot of trouble. Then again, copyrighted dance moves are a tricky thing. You can't copyright human body movement. The day that happens we have literally created the copyright police irl to arrest people just for dancing Literally this. Dancing is dancing. No one should be able to own the rights to move your body in a certain way. |
 |
| Copyrighting dance moves is fucking retarded. |
 |
Meanwhile Gintama... |
| thats some nice rotoscoping animation at least |
| I'm just gonna leave my comment about this as someone who has tangential experience with the dance industry (my brother competes in multiple country wide/europe-wide/world-wide dance competitions every year): Copyrighting simple dance moves is pretty stupid. Something like copyrighting """the floss""" (which originally wasn't even called that) is like copyrighting a Character or a word. Its unreasonable and imo kinda stupid but some people still do it (like Kim Kardashian copyrighting the work "kimono" because it has "kim" in it... why...) A choreography on the other hand is pretty different. They take a lot of time and effort to create and are basically like a whole chapter or poem. And i don't think many people would argue with copyrighting chapters of books, or whole poems (or in this case choreographies in an act). So yeah it is kinda stupid for them to take the whole choreographies and not credit/ask for permission. It's basically like copying a chapter of a book for an audiobook. The second person seems to be a lot more chill about it but also still isn't sure what she wants to do whilst the first person (if i translated it correctly) will let it slide for now but threatened with a lawyer if it happened again? they continue using it? I'm not too sure since my japanese is pretty basic and translation software is still pretty bad at japanese... especially at non-textbook japanese |
SinomOct 30, 2019 3:01 AM
| It's literally just a dance, anyone can do that dance since its literally just movement. If they get into a lot of shit for this the dancers must be mentally deficient. |
deg said: It wasn't rotoscoped, Ebata just used the dance moves as a reference.thats some nice rotoscoping animation at least |
 |
DumpsterKing said: deg said: It wasn't rotoscoped, Ebata just used the dance moves as a reference.thats some nice rotoscoping animation at least nah that was clearly rotoscoped just look at how many detailed movements that animation got alone, sure its not 100% copy because maybe he tried to disguise it as his own animation |
deg said: DumpsterKing said: It wasn't rotoscoped, Ebata just used the dance moves as a reference. Nah that was clearly rotoscoped just look at how many detailed movements that animation got alone, sure its not 100% copy because maybe he tried to disguise it as his own animation 1. The timing is off. 2. The animated movements are more exaggerated in places. 3. If you look at the part where the two teachers are dancing, he obviously animated the male teacher - same with all of the other characters who can't dance. |
|
DumpsterKing said: deg said: Nah that was clearly rotoscoped just look at how many detailed movements that animation got alone, sure its not 100% copy because maybe he tried to disguise it as his own animation 1. The timing is off. 2. The animated movements are more exaggerated in places. 3. If you look at the part where the two teachers are dancing, he obviously animated the male teacher - same with all of the other characters who can't dance. he can clearly adjust those timings and exaggerate the movements though as for 3 ye some parts can be well his original animation no surprise there but for the most part it is rotoscoped, i mean are those none focus/main characters on his dance have the same detailed movements too? |
| Yes, like I said. If you compare the two teachers dancing, it's pretty clear it was referenced and not rotoscoped. |
|
| Statement from the production committee : https://twitter.com/hoshiaino_sora/status/1189907550189154304?s=19 Translated from Google Translate : ''About the ending animation of "Hoshiai no Sora" In the process of creating the ending animation for this work, we did not confirm in advance with Merochin-sama or Ms. Shichikawa-san because of insufficient awareness of copyright. We apologize to both for the inconvenience. Thanks to the production staff, including animators, and our thoughts on this work, we were able to cooperate. In the future, we will review the production system to prevent this from happening and work on the production of this work. We hope you will continue to support this work. Hoshiai no Sora Production Committee'' |
|
BTDee said: narutosister said: actully dance is a form of art, it CAN be copy righted. however: SOME SPECIFIC DANCE MOVES cant be copyrighted; like the moonwalk and some things like that that are too simple and plain that anyone can comeup with. but dance routines that were created by dancers are in fact copy righted as long as the one created it: submited a copy right claim. i dont know which court said that dance moves cant be copy righted but its wrong. "Not All Dance is Protectable Not everything that we may think of as “dance” is protectable by copyright law. For example, the following types of dance are not protectable: Social Dances: Social dance steps and simple routines are not copyrightable as choreography. For example, an application for registration of the electric slide (and other line dances) would likely be rejected, suggesting that Congress did not want to take the fun out of weddings (or that Congress did want to take the fun out of weddings, depending on your attitude towards dancing at weddings). Critical to this distinction between choreography and social dance is the identity of the intended participants. While choreography is, as discussed above, intended for skilled dancers to perform for the general public, social dances are intended to be danced by the general public. Individual Movements and Simple Routines: Much like words and short phrases (which generally are not subject to copyright protection), de minimus discrete dance steps cannot be registered for copyright protection. For instance, even though a complex choreographic work incorporating the moonwalk or a ballet plié may be registered, these individual moves may not be registered. Why? Allowing these building blocks to be protected could chill creativity and innovation. Likewise, simple routines are also not considered to be works of original creative authorship. So while those simple and short end zone dances may contain some elements of copyrightability, in that they communicate a theme or concept to an audience on a type of stage, they may nevertheless not be sufficiently complex to be registered. Ordinary motor activities and feats of physical skill. Ordinary motor activities, functional physical movements, competitive events and feats of skill or dexterity are also not considered protectable choreography, nor are sequences of movements that are intended to improve one’s physical or mental health, like yoga, exercise routines or aerobic dances. For example, if the same series of movements is used in a dance and in an ice skating routine, the latter will be far less likely to merit copyright protection because it is part of a competition. Similarly, even though juggling involves the rhythmic movement of a skilled performer, there is likely no dramatic content aside from whether the juggler will successfully keep the balls in the air. Routines not performed by humans: Although this may seem obvious, in order to be protectable, choreography must be authored by humans, and for humans. Professor Nimmer is quick to point out to that choreography made by or for animals or robots cannot be copyrighted. Sorry, dancing robots, no dice." Based on this information, simple dance moves as shown above that have been done time and time again by many dancers are not able to be copyrighted. Especially that second tweet. That is not original dance work in the slightest. Did they take these dances from these people? No doubt. Are they in their legal right to? Yep. These people did not invent these dance moves. Either way, it doesn't really matter as it appears that the company has apologized to these people and has taken responsibility for it. BlakexEkalb said: You can’t copyright a dance. Seems like a waste of time to continue the “look into it”. The same thing happened with Fortnite taking dance moves, and it ended the same way this will. Stop thinking with american laws in mind. In Japan, dancing choreography has copyright. And it makes total sense because a person spent time creating an entire choreography and then another copied and put in a product that will be used to sell music. |
| The dance choreographers have been added to Hoshiai no Sora’s ED credits as of ep 4. And going by the official twitter post a formal apology was made, possibly including some financial/rights agreement that all parties were satisfied with and so the ED will continue to be used. https://twitter.com/zzamaamiro/status/1190017558726004741 welp money solves everything lol |
| Well, it's bad but not the end of the world. Hope fans of those two didn't take it to heart now that its resolved. |
| I’m just glad things have been resolved because I really like the ED (song, music plus the visuals all included). Both parties have come to an agreement so that’s case closed. |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni  |
RegalTheReaL said: there's a difference to doing a dance cover and using the dance moves as part of a project that earns you moneySmolOwl21 said: Technically, if the choreographer did have copyrights to their original dance, then it can be a messy situation if they copied a dancer's original choreography if they didn't reach out and ask permission. That isn't to say all famous dance moves are under copyrights since you see lots of them in tv shows, movies, plays, and anime. Think of it this way. Kaguya-sama hired a dancer/choreographer for the Chika dance and was properly credited for creating that dance. If Hoshiai no Sora had one character copy that dance without even talking to the dancer/choreographer and not give credit, that could spell a lot of trouble. Then again, copyrighted dance moves are a tricky thing. You can't copyright human body movement. The day that happens we have literally created the copyright police irl to arrest people just for dancing |
| Quote from an ANN article : Under Japanese Copyright law, dance choreography is considered a work of authorship. It is not uncommon for anime to feature sequences referencing real-life dancers and choreographers with permission. For example, Nagisa Sugao is credited as the choreographer for the Kaguya-sama: Love is War anime's third episode ending sequence. Similarly, Kenji Miyamoto is credited as the choreographer for Yuri!!! on Ice's figure skating sequences. Thomas Romain, who assisted on the world setting in Carole & Tuesday, tweeted that dancers and musicians were paid to be used as reference for the anime. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-11-01/stars-align-production-committee-apologizes-for-copying-dance-choreography-without-permission/.152867 So yeah, violation of copyright it would seem. |
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