Fate/kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya Episode 6 Discussion

Fai said:
DAT EXCALIBUR(only fitting considering the location :P)
DAT ANIMATION QUALITY
DAT sword of promised victory-alter ost organ version.
DAT FUCKING FORESHADOWING
DAT EMIYA OST ILLYA REMIX
DAT RHO AIAS


EAT YOUR WORDS HATERRRRRRRRS. (although it is depressing that Prisma gets to do justice to EMIYA themesong and build-up first before we get a proper FSN version of it)


I dare you to tell you this is not part of fate franchise. I double dare you. This is more in line with fate franchise than DEEN's fsn ever was.




Overall this episode is nice taste of things to come in Zwei and Drei :P


9000/5

JoaoZangetsu said:


however i agree with the fact that this is much more cohesive than the F/SN adaptation, still its a Spin Off, in other words, it don't belong to the main franchise (Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia) and it's not even necessary to understand the Nasuverse, the mangá has it's own rules and interior logic to sustain the Mahou Shoujo part.
You can argue all you want that this is canon and its part of the main franchise because nasuverse have multiple universes ( Zelretch's second magic) and because they use mahou shoujo parody in official work (which is ridiculous, its clearly there just for comedy, it's like saying that Saber transforming in Saber Alter just because is angry in F/HA is cohesive) but, this don't mean that is canon, any story can be cohesive with the original work and still not be canon, take Narita Ryohgo's Fate/Strange Fake for example.

Even for Fate/Zero Nasu have to recognize it as prequel and canon in the commentary part of the Light Novel.

JoaoZangetsu said:

however i agree with the fact that this is much more cohesive than the F/SN adaptation, still its a Spin Off, in other words, it don't belong to the main franchise (Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia) and it's not even necessary to understand the Nasuverse, the mangá has it's own rules and interior logic to sustain the Mahou Shoujo part.

You can argue all you want that this is canon and its part of the main franchise because nasuverse have multiple universes ( Zelretch's second magic) and because they use mahou shoujo parody in official work (which is ridiculous, its clearly there just for comedy, it's like saying that Saber transforming in Saber Alter just because is angry in F/HA is cohesive) but, this don't mean that is canon, any story can be cohesive with the original work and still not be canon, take Narita Ryohgo's Fate/Strange Fake for example.

Even for Fate/Zero Nasu have to recognize it as prequel and canon in the commentary part of the Light Novel.

Yusa-pyan said:
DAT EVERYTHING
HOW IS THIS STILL A 6.92????

ssjokg said:
Correct me if I am wrong but Fate/Strange Fake wasnt even completed iirc.There is a problem in having a dropped story as part of canon.

Also Nasu didnt have to recognize it aka spell it out for us.I mean he collaborates with Urobuchi to create FZ and he has to spell it out for us ?.Just like we didnt need to know MOST of all the other stuff he talked about in the afterword.

F/KPI is recognized by Type Moon and is promoted along with the other Fate/ series yet it doesnt belong in the franchise or canon?

Orzi said:
Yeah, I didn't read VN, and that what I saw:

Too long retrospection from previous episode, clichy "Your super attack won't work" moments for Luvia and Rin, Illya's power-up from nothing, unnecessary fanservice in Illya's costume (did EMIYA has exposed belly?).

This show keeps getting worse and worse >_<

JoaoZangetsu said:

That's why i said Spin Off, or Sidequel, i didn't said that was not canon, i was arguing about the reasons to say that was canon, i only said that was not the part of main franchise.

I'll give the example of Muv Luv franchise, Muv Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse is a official light novel that is a Spin Off of the original Muv Luv Franchise, (Extra, Unlimited and Alternative) and yet, even have a adaptation for visual novel and anime, and is still a Spin Off (or Sidequel) and is optional to read or not, it'll not influence the main franchise so the author is free to create own new rules in the work (In the case of Fate/KPI, this system of colecting Cards, Rin overpowering Saber Alter in pure strenght).
and i believe that Nasu recongnize F/Z officaly to not confuse it as an spin off (and Urobuchi in that time had internal conflicts to make sequels and prequels).

Orzi said:
Yeah, I didn't read VN, and that what I saw:

Too long retrospection from previous episode, clichy "Your super attack won't work" moments for Luvia and Rin, Illya's power-up from nothing, unnecessary fanservice in Illya's costume (did EMIYA has exposed belly?).

This show keeps getting worse and worse >_<

Orzi said:
Yeah, I didn't read VN, and that what I saw:

Too long retrospection from previous episode, clichy "Your super attack won't work" moments for Luvia and Rin, Illya's power-up from nothing, unnecessary fanservice in Illya's costume (did EMIYA has exposed belly?).

This show keeps getting worse and worse >_<

Fai said:
Fate Strange Fake was an april's fool joke

Fai said:


You need read what i said again, and you need understand the definition of Spin Off, it does'nt matter if have multiple universes, is a statement outside internal logic.
i said that the story has it's own new rules, so it's not absurd based on its own logic.
And i'm well aware of the second magic and Zelretch's power, but you need understand that was a direct physical combat, not a magical combat, there's much diference between this and the fight of Zelretch and Crinsom Moon, and the battle between Rin and Sakura.
And you can see that the Kaleidostick power even fail to overpower the Caster magecraft, so there's a limit to it's power, as said in the show, they can't overcome every being.
In the case of Ilya overpowering Saber Alter for example, it's obvious, projection can replicate the enemy's strenght, like in Nine Bullet Revolver battle.

Fai said:

And alter servants are weaker due to corruption and due to the fact that its essentially one prana source divided amongst all servants.

Fai said:



"your super attack won't work" is perfectly justified considering Saber's magic RES.
Illya's powerup has been foreshadowed + expected if one knows ANYTHING about fsn and what Illya is there.

Archer outfit is personal preference.

And let's not forge that its not archer. Its Illya in Archer outfit, so its shaped in the way that fits her.

JoaoZangetsu said:

You need read what i said again, and you need understand the definition of Spin Off, it does'nt matter if have multiple universes, is a statement outside internal logic.
i said that the story has it's own new rules, so it's not absurd based on its own logic.
And i'm well aware of the second magic and Zelretch's power, but you need understand that was a direct physical combat, not a magical combat, there's much diference between this and the fight of Zelretch and Crinsom Moon, and the battle between Rin and Sakura.
And you can see that the Kaleidostick power even fail to overpower the Caster magecraft, so there's a limit to it's power, as said in the show, they can't overcome every being.
In the case of Ilya overpowering Saber Alter for example, it's obvious, projection can replicate the enemy's strenght, like in Nine Bullet Revolver battle.

Valaskjalf said:
wow...

I was no expecting this awesome fight scene. Probably the best thing I've seen so far in all animated fate anime

ssjokg said:


Disregard Luck since it is the most BS stat in Nasuverse.
The only part were she is really weaker is Agility.

Alter in F/KPI pretty much attacks like Alter in HF.Like she has infinite mana.It's way more precise to say that ILya is fucking amazing than calling Alters weaker than their normal states .

JoaoZangetsu said:

And i'm well aware of the second magic and Zelretch's power, but you need understand that was a direct physical combat, not a magical combat, there's much diference between this and the fight of Zelretch and Crinsom Moon, and the battle between Rin and Sakura.
And you can see that the Kaleidostick power even fail to overpower the Caster magecraft, so there's a limit to it's power, as said in the show, they can't overcome every being.
In the case of Ilya overpowering Saber Alter for example, it's obvious, projection can replicate the enemy's strenght, like in Nine Bullet Revolver battle.

destonyDbaby said:
if this doesnt pull the ratings up then I wonder what will ?
she turned into fucking heroic emiya, one of my favs. what if she can turn into awesome characters like gilgamesh and have intense fights like she did in this episode ?

ssjokg said:
Ask Gilgamesh about his luck.

Fai said:

Nope. Kaleidosticks ARE infinite. The only limitation is the user itself.

And sure..."physical" fight - let's discount that nothing is really "physical" when fighting servants (as in only conceptual weapons hurt them) or that Rin was litterally empowered via kaleidostick to do stuff and had everything including magic protection and enhanced power.

Kaleidosticks

shroud the user in their infinite mana, essentially emulating the way heroic spirit works, but instead of drawing power from grail, it draws power from infinite number of parallel realities. Its only limitations are its own personality and how well the user can use it.

And if Rin could stand up to Sakura - WHO WAS DEVOURING SERVANTS LEFT AND RIGHT - with jewel sword, it stands to reason that she could stand up to saber alter with a similar tool which, unlike jewel sword is based SPECIFICALLY to fight heroic spirits.

Fai said:


Gilgamesh

I'd say his luck is fine.

JoaoZangetsu said:

it's physical(obviously not when they're in spirit form), they have physical bodies by the materialization using third magic, and masters sustain their form with prana.
Their stats is not just for show, other beings aside from servants have stats too, like when on a interview that said Arcueid need to have high luck rank to not be one hited by Gae Bolg, like everyone else.
In that sense, Rin should be affected by the rank A strenght of Saber, (Berserker has a Rank A+ Strenght, Saber with Shirou as master Rank B)

destonyDbaby said:
I just wonder how much of adaptation will there be with only 4 episodes left, surely it should conclude the first phase of the series right ? and then maybe in the future we get "2wei" and "3rei". (funny that its not called zwei and drei)

destonyDbaby said:
I know right ? it would been better if we had 24+ episode too put all content in it. I dont want to read the manga because the anime is beautiful =/ but I ll have too if I must

destonyDbaby said:
I know right ? it would been better if we had 24+ episode too put all content in it. I dont want to read the manga because the anime is beautiful =/ but I ll have too if I must

FlareKnight said:
All we can do is cross our fingers and hope people really take to this. Would definitely love to see 2wei get adapted as well at some point.

I was surprised this is getting 10 episodes, but then I checked back and realized the first part of the manga really wasn't all that long. This is probably more than enough to get the job done.

ssjokg said:

*looks at list*
I have to question your taste logic.

Valaskjalf said:


what is that suppose to mean?

ssjokg said:
]So you are saying that Rin shouldnt be able to match Saber because of the supposed difference in stats?
That is the point, the sticks raise their stats.

JoaoZangetsu said:


But you don't have any evidence that Kaleidosticks gave them great strenght stats (and remenber, part of the stats of the servants are from their fame), and i never heard anything about second magic giving great strenght power to it's user (like i never hear Aoko's fifth magic giving her strenght power aside that she can acess the power of future selfs, if i remember correctly)
you can say "ah, but she can reinforce her kaleidostick", aside from Archer's Reinforcement, that is part of Unlimited Blade Works, there's no one we know about reinforcing a material to that level, independent of the prana level to do it, and reinforcement is a pretty hard magecraft to use.

ssjokg said:

You want evidence, about the tools raising their stats and giving them skills ,that were given to them by Zelretch and Waver in order to fight Heroic Spirits?
Like this?

Also it wasnt Rin that reinforced Ruby.It was Ruby's power alone(the same power that didnt allow Sapphire to break when ) that withstood Saber attacks.
That is the power of the sticks, to give their masters enough power to fight the Heroic Spirits by using their unlimited supply of mana.The only problem is the limits of their master's imagination.It's not the Second Magic that works that way.Is how the Kaleidosticks use the Second Magic.

Fai said:
Fucking seriously.

The fact that they are made by freaking Zelretch.

You know, the dude who also created:


See the pattern? in it? Hint: all of the shit he created is INFINITE.


Adding to that Kaleidosticks ARE pretty much identical to Jewel sword, except that:
1) they have personalities.
2) the way they apply the power has a different purpose.

sonicxsam said:
I just notice their seems to be alot of fate series fans who never read the VN. I'm kinda surprised since its quite easy to find now from what i seen recently. None the less I quite enjoyed the Ep even through some of the posts here seem to have gone a little different direction but hey learning more about something you love is never a bad thing. 9/10 I will keep enjoying the show even if its not perfect like the manga.

JoaoZangetsu said:
At least isn't "Shiki can kill mahou shoujos"

ssjokg said:

Pretty sure that he would be able to if he got a chance to cut them.Unless if his blood goes crazy with mahou lolis too whcih means hax acrobatics and power.

Fai said:

Congrats guyse, this is now a proper type moon thread.

Fai said:


, however normal-state girls, hm...

Here's a question. does the shield of kaleidostick have same ruleset as kaleidostick itself and is kaleidostick made from same materials as jewel sword?

Considering Jewel Sword is an alien concept that is untraceable(Shirou went "WTF IS THIS SHIT" when he tried to comprehend it), Could Shiki even SEE the lines in this case?

And if Kaleidostick is like jewel sword and if the user is practically surrounded by that, wouldn't that mean unearthly concept of death that Shiki can't comprehend?

....


Congrats guyse, this is now a proper type moon thread.