Majo no Tabitabi Episode 4 Discussion

RayReynolds said:


You using regular human traveler logic, like you might seen in kino’s journey but unlike kino Elaina has magic and in many cases the means. She is powerful and indeed too powerful for the types of stories they seem to want to tell. If she was dead set on avoiding trouble she would be smarter in her travels, not stop in a city where ash is raining from the sky,be more cautious in her interactions. Damn it in other shows the often very annoying protagonists try to help everyone and learn a bitter lesson when they cant, both behaviors reflect on the characterization of the character. The “you could make it worse for a person you are helping” is a typical lesson but also kind of runs counter to the spirit of travel while Elain never we get told lesson why nothing was done. This series might as well be Elaina reading brochures about all of these places instead.

RayReynolds said:

oh, of course! it is more important to investigate case of a town with some 20 house where missing one slave. But an entire kingdom fell into disaster and nobody cares??? @AdolZeppeli you dont think there is guild for “justice witches” but you are sure there are international cops in this setting of disconnected city states more concerned with catching a kidnapping witch but not destroy a field of mind controlling plants in 20+ years?
...
You know what? Forget it. I've noticed that the problem is that the writing is too stupid. It's a light novel? uh? that explains why it's completely silly.

nightcrawlercyp said:
So she met a witch as big of a psychopath as herself. And her reactions was she wanted to help her. No self reflection. I drop it now. No point of watching it while wanting her dead

Blue_Maroon said:
I felt Elaina doing nothing this time was more reasonable than her doing nothing in the last episode (even though she was going to put herself at risk somewhat if the Princess was in dangers). I do not understand what the purpose was for the Princess giving herself amnesia, though. It feels like it was only done for storytelling reasons.

I can recognize that they put a lot of effort into making that food look good too. I’m not sure why they went all-out on that, but it did look good.

Dali14 said:



“An incredible din was coming from the kitchen next door, like some kind of high-speed construction. Cracking. Slurping. Chewing. Grinding. Crunching. I’m begging you, spare my daughter’s life— Gyaaah! Scrubbing. Slapping.
Something like that.
Those were clearly not the sounds of cooking.”_vol1 ch12

“She placed a plate in front of me. Resting on top of the white plate were two slices of toasted bread. One of the pieces of golden-brown toast was spread with thick red jam”_vol1 ch12

“Seated across from me, she pressed both hands together, then crunched into her jam toast.”_vol1 ch12

Well the food wasn't actually a food
Maybe the princess was already insane even before she regained her memories

OtakuOne said:
jesus christ why do a lot of people in this thread expect Elaina to be some kind of special hero

did Elaina even mention trying to become a hero? she just wanted to be a traveler like from the book she read in episode 1.

Anyway, this episode is pretty good. Elaina stays true to herself and the queen turns out to be some kind of psychopath.

Opticflash said:


Might as well say that for any other anime with a chaotic neutral or even "immoral" character (like Death Note), or video games like Grand Theft Auto.

SouthRzVa said:
just as convenient as Elaina not knowing a spell to keep herself warm despite travelling in a dress-like attire

nightcrawlercyp said:
why she could not have build a hut with magic and made a fire inside?

why she had to break and enter someone's home?

Renkini said:
Exactly my point. I don't understand why people can't enjoy a show anymore just because the protagonist didn't help a character. Why must they think every protag must have the same kind of moral ruler to the rest of us in reality? A type of self-inserting? A type of mixing reality with fiction? I seriously don't know. And if there're a lot of people like this, like @Opticflash said in the post #211 above, I dunno how shows like Death Note or games like GTA or God of War are popular.

To people saying "ELaInA MuSt HeLp":

C'mon, I'll step down, like 10 steps and say Elaina is some kind of omnipotent witch who can do anything and she didn't help the flower incident, slave-chan nor the genocider witch, just because "SHE DOESN'T FUCKING WANT TO!" Then I agree with every fibers of my being that that makes her a total piece of human trash but sorry, that didn't make me enjoying the show any less. Because I'm perfectly aware this is just a fiction and I'm not Elaina. You can accuse me as the same human garbage as her but that'll make you admitting yourself that you can't differentiate between reality and fiction. Because I don't believe a person who likes evil characters or edgy shows will do the same immoral shit in reality. (If he did, that might be some kind of mental disorder.) Who knows? A person who is agreeing Elaina shouldn't help the slave girl might be the one who'll jump in front of a gunfire to save a complete stranger, or the total reverse.

Err, no. She does have a spell to keep herself warm. I mean, she literally ignited the door of the castle to break into it. But c'mon, even if she has the spell to keep herself warm, it's not like she can use it the whole night while also camping in a ruined city. She has stamina limit (and probably mana limit too). You saw how she's running out of breath maintaining the telekinesis spell to help Mirarose digging the hole. Imagine casting the fire spell the whole night in a ruined city where she doesn't know what danger there is. (She'll be Godzilla food in this case.)

====================================
Think, guys. And watch the show with full concentration. This is not the kind of show that'll handhold you, spoon-feed you nor info-dump you. It uses the "show, don't tell" policy to its limit (and I won't deny it's backfiring). All answers are there if you think even a little. Heck, even in episode 3, the show only implied that Nino'll suicide and never said straight out that she did. Why? That's because it wants us to think and decide ourselves whether she'll suicide or lives happily ever after with that naive boyfriend of hers. Maybe that's why Elaina didn't help them? Who knows?

I'm not fanboying either. I agree episode 3 had some execution problem and I already said that in post #67 of this thread. But this show definitely deserves better than "Elaina is a psychopath! Bad! Dropped. 1/10."

Tl;dr: "This show is trash because the protagonist is not the goody-two-shoes heroine of justice I expected her to be" or "This show is trash cuz it wants me to think but I didn't at all" are not valid criticisms nor arguments. I mean, I can even understand if it's something logical like "A pretentious show with a narcissistic protag and moral lessons that don't make sense" but I found, like, only one person with that kind of reasoning throughout episode 3 and 4 discussions. The rest are all jumping on "Hate Elaina" bandwagon.

And become Godzilla food later? Plus can you tell me when the show implied that she can create a hut whenever she wants? And even within a few hours no less because it's already sunset when she arrived the ruined city.

Because she thought no one's living there and it looks so much safer than a mere hut she made herself?

Ok, the show implied her being able to turn back time and fix a home at a livable level.

1. she did not know about that
2. when everything except one small region is destroyed is a good bet the cause of destruction is there.

nightcrawlercyp said:
Well she isn't chaotically neutral. she seem to have no emotions apart from her narcissism. Also Death Note was not immoral , rather asked the question on what is moral in a world without God. And I was backing Light up until . About GTA is more about releasing pent anger inside a game as opposed as in real life. Also as someone pointed out: why she could not have build a hut with magic and made a fire inside? why she had to break and enter someone's home?

Renkini said:
@nightcrawlercyp
Did the show mention how much time she can turn back? (It might be mere minutes or even seconds.) Do we know since how long the houses are in ruin? All we know is that she can turn back time for objects that were damaged in front of her eyes almost immediately. And you said "build a hut", not "turn back time to a house".

Didn't that prove my point more? A city is in ruin. She knows there's some kind of danger but don't know what exactly it is. It might be something even worse than the Godzilla and you still demand to live her in a mere hut that might not be able to protect her completely?

Oh, btw, @ me next time please. Quoting my longass post above is a pain in the ass to scroll for both me and other people.

Opticflash said:


She appears chaotic neutral due to her (in)action and reaction towards affairs that have a moral dilemma to them. Death Note is not immoral, however it is Light's lack of empathy that a lot of people hated. For example, people started to really hate him when he killed innocents like those FBI agents and, as you've pointed out, his manipulation of people like Misa without any sign of remorse. Yet people loved his character (currently 5th highest in MAL). I am curious though, did you suddenly dislike Death Note as a series when he became more manipulative? GTA has a story to them; many people loved the story lines in all the GTA games despite the themes involved.

As for your last point, I think you're asking the wrong question. This is like asking, for example, why the corps in Demon Slayer don't invent high powered laser-type guns that output an intense beam incorporating the solar spectrum, or why the monsters with intelligence in Danmachi just don't come up in the middle of the night and sneak away to a far away land. The obvious answer is that they can't. The other answer is that asking why one can't do X warrants an infinite number of queries that one can ask, as X can be an infinite number of things. Obviously an anime cannot provide an answer to an infinite number. The more natural question to ask is what she can do. She busted the door down to find shelter.

Yes we do not know how long she can turn the time back but past of what we have so far moving a few materials around is not big deal for her.

About the second part you ignore the fact that the palace is the most dangerous place and is clear from the start.

Renkini said:
@nightcrawlercyp
Err... I don't even know anymore whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me tbh. You mean she should move materials around and build a hut no matter what? She clearly can't, dude. What type of omnipotent witch you think she is? Even if she can, who knows how long that will take. Time is ticking to nightfall and she must find a place to stay for the night asap.

Clear from the start? How? Neither us (the viewers) nor Elaina knew there's a powerful witch living in the castle. That's why she broke into it in the first place.

she can. She made a 20m deep with at lest 5x5 meters hole. commanding a demon (that is the source of witches powers) to move some stuff and build a house is no big deal.

Elementary my dear Renkini

nightcrawlercyp said:

1. she can. She made a 20m deep with at lest 5x5 meters hole. Not to mention the fight with her teacher before she learned magic. she clearly can. Never said she is omnipotent. For instance she cannot truly resurrect the dead or heal serious injury or disease. Plenty of things she cannot do. But commanding a demon (that is the source of witches powers) to move some stuff and build a house is no big deal.

nightcrawlercyp said:

2. Yes is clear from the start. Is simple logic. First off is clear that the disaster that befell the kingdom was huge so for the castle to be in perfect condition either the person protecting it has to be really powerful either it has a deal with whatever destroyed the rest of the kingdom, or both. Second, the destruction happened really fast thus to be able to protect the castle to that magnitude you had to know about it well in advance. But if it is was not your desire to the kingdom to be destroyed or at least not in league with the destroyer you would have done something to prevent it or at least leave the country. Elementary my dear Renkini

Renkini said:
@nightcrawlercyp
And how much time do you think it'll take? 5 minutes? Did you just ignore that I pointed out there's also time constraint?

The 2nd point is just you being Sherlock and thought out the scenario and I can probably imagine at least 10 ones that won't fit into yours but I'm tired so I won't. Even in a tiny speck of chance that your speculation is true, I doubt an 18yo witch traveler who was tired from travelling and finding a place to stay asap can be paranoid that much. (If she did, she won't break into it in the first place.)

Lol I'm elementary now even tho you couldn't read the advice I told you to @ me two posts ago for the sake of shortening the thread even if just for a bit. Pot calling the kettle black much?

Kimurah said:


Right, because being able to dig a hole is just the same as building a hut taking in consideration all the materials that need to be in good shape (timber, foundation material, nails, tools, etc) not to mention she would need architecture skills/knowledge. You probably think she can pull out a whole house just like Arte pulled out a cottage in less than an episode with just hard work. Also it was mentioned she was tired before she arrived to the castle, Mirarose also stated that she regained her magical powers after her long rest, the series is being quite clear that a mage can't use her magic power if she's physically drained. This is also reinforced by Elaina offering herself to cook dinner after they beat the dragon because Mirarose would be drained both physically and magically.




And the show also stated that Mirarose was also a very skilled baker, baking takes a lot of physical effort, so there was already a possible explanation on who could have done all the upkeep to the castle before Mirarose revealed herself as a mage.

Regarding that the castle was still in one piece on the outside, as Mirarose stated it was protected via a magical barrier, we later found out that it was her own barrier, but she never mentioned that she was the one fueling it, wich originaly implied that someone else casted the barrier and left or died to the dragon

AdolZeppeli said:
@nightcrawlercyp

I see that the average MAL user has advanced to a new stage where they think a tired witch can build a hut effortlessly while ignoring what happened to the city, let alone think that a castle may be the source of it's destruction. Sure...

Considering a regular human would do it in 30-60 minutes 5-10 minutes sound about right.

About my logic deduction is extremely simple, you may accept it or not. About you being elementary.... no, the problem is elementary... as in elementary my dear Watson....

Renkini said:
@nightcrawlercyp


Okay, buddy. I'm done. Your delusion can't be saved anymore. Sorry for quoting you.

*chuckle* Not gonna deny the part you couldn't read my message?

nightcrawlercyp said:
we are not talking about a house to last for years , we are talking about a promissory shelter for max 2 days. Not sure what is so funny. Just because you are incompetent at basic survival does not mean everyone is

nightcrawlercyp said:

nightcrawlercyp said:
About DS which ended I think a few months ago (the manga) the demon slayers could have done a lot more yes, but considering they had no manufacturing process low funds and had to stay secret I doubt they could have done much more. About Danmachi the reason is they are hunted by that family although they do not know which humans hunt them.

nightcrawlercyp said:
About the Elaina part there were plenty of things she could do. Breaking into someone's home by breaking the door is one of the worst. Consider this: assuming that home provided some protection breaking the door endangers both yourself and whomever is inside. She never bothers fixing the door she broke or... you know just unlock it with magic instead of breaking it...

nightcrawlercyp said:

Well I am a regular human so if I could why couldn't she?

HaXXspetten said:
Well that was pretty messed up

Not sure what Elaina even could've done there even if she wanted to. Too late to really do much about that situation. Pretty fucked up revenge plan

Opticflash said:


Virtually everyone would disagree with you on this front. There is nothing at all that would suggest FBI agents are evil. Many people wanted to see Light's demise, that is for sure, but why did you not dislike it?



The idea isn't to illustrate what the characters could have done to ensure a positive outcome, the idea is to illustrate that asking "why can't they do X" leads to a logical absurdity due to the sheer volume of questions that one can ask. You are not wrong to say that the Demon Slayer corps could have done more, given what we know about them in the story, however asking why they don't have high powered broadband lasers housing the solar spectrum is a stretch. In Danmachi's case, you've more or less accurately answered that one question correct. Then let's shift to the idea that they could escape the entire continent, possibly with the help of Bell and co., and start leaving at night. The number of questions one could come up with is infinity.



She first broke it likely because she (falsely) assumed nobody would be inside due to the whole city being in ruins. It is unclear whether she can "unlock" such a door and whether a door even has such a lock. It may be that the door requires sheer strength to open, however she may not be powerful enough to pry it open as such a spell may utilize one's physical strength.

The protection wasn't the door, but the barrier in which Elaina experienced prior to opening the door.

nightcrawlercyp said:

First off every person working for the state because it can vote cannot be held accountable for not doing their job doing it poorly or even abuse it so most of those people are corrupt. Second the secret services in time of peace have very few legitimate things to do so most of their work is against the rights of the citizens.
Second after WW2 prison life has become, especially in Europe, like a holiday resort. It has reached the point were people commit small crimes to go to jail, when most of the prisoners lead a better life than over 20% of the population. Also since most countries/states have renounced death penalty and appeals can bring most people out of jail if they have enough money to pay the lawyers the whole system is a joke.
Also to exit the continent you first have to exit the dungeon and then the city which is not as easy as one may think. If it were one or two such individuals would be possible but with so many is hard, especially since some are large and not human looking at all.

AdolZeppeli said:


Maybe because you're making your own vision by being omnipresent, knowing every detail and (possibly) knowledge of survival skills? She does not know that whoever's inside the castle is the one behind the city's destruction, also, since she's tired, I highly doubt she has the will nor the skills to go find materials in perfect shape on a destroyed city to build a hut, unless, you know, she hypothetically has a portable DIY magic hut in her hypothetically magic pocket for her to build at will whenever she's tired with her hypothetically skills at building, which, either way would cause her death because the moment she wakes up she'll have a big ass monster right in front of her, which will destroy the hut with little to no effort.

I did not know that "basic" survival skills consisted of building a hut right in the open where you're an easy target. Come on, using your brain isn't that hard.

nightcrawlercyp said:

Plenty of things you do not know. Also sometimes the best place to hide is out in the open

nightcrawlercyp said:
cause it can vote cannot be held accountable for not doing their job doing it poorly or even abuse it so most of those people are corrupt. Second the secret services in time of peace have very few legitimate things to do so most of their work is against the rights of the citizens.
Second after WW2 prison life has become, especially in Europe, like a holiday resort. It has reached the point were people commit small crimes to go to jail, when most of the prisoners lead a better life than over 20% of the population. Also since most countries/states have renounced death penalty and appeals can bring most people out of jail if they have enough money to pay the lawyers the whole system is a joke.
Also to exit the continent you first have to exit the dungeon and then the city which is not as easy as one may think. If it were one or two such individuals would be possible but with so many is hard, especially since some are large and not human looking at all.

nightcrawlercyp said:
First off every person working for the state because it can vote cannot be held accountable for not doing their job doing it poorly or even abuse it so most of those people are corrupt. Second the secret services in time of peace have very few legitimate things to do so most of their work is against the rights of the citizens.

nightcrawlercyp said:
Second after WW2 prison life has become, especially in Europe, like a holiday resort. It has reached the point were people commit small crimes to go to jail, when most of the prisoners lead a better life than over 20% of the population. Also since most countries/states have renounced death penalty and appeals can bring most people out of jail if they have enough money to pay the lawyers the whole system is a joke.

nightcrawlercyp said:

Also to exit the continent you first have to exit the dungeon and then the city which is not as easy as one may think. If it were one or two such individuals would be possible but with so many is hard, especially since some are large and not human looking at all. If it were one or two such individuals would be possible but with so many is hard, especially since some are large and not human looking at all.

Opticflash said:


Do you have any evidence of this embedded into US law? And how would Light differentiate between people who are working as they should and those who are abusing their power and/or citizens?



Errr... what? Do you have any evidence of this, and how is this related specifically to FBI agents?



Yes, and you've answered the question about why they specifically can't get out of the dungeon (easily). I'll shift the question to why Hestia can't hold a party for everyone to attend in the evening as a decoy, giving booze to everyone until they're all drunk, and quickly have others smuggle the monsters out at night.

By now, you should see a pattern going on. Asking why one can't do X is asking the wrong question, because the number of questions leads up to infinity. Similar to Danmachi, asking why Demon Slayer corps can't invent a high powered broadband solar-spectrum laser is asking the wrong question. Therefore asking why Elaina can't build a hut is asking the wrong question. Asking what Elaina can do is a more natural question.

nightcrawlercyp said:

1. is not US law. Is common sense. About differentiating them is pretty much impossible but those that are not corrupt are probably under 0.1%

nightcrawlercyp said:
2. yes there is ample evidence. Just search how much a month is allocated per prisoner. And the relation is that the judicial system is bankrupt.

nightcrawlercyp said:
3. Not everyone drinks, it would cost way too much and is not friendly with most other families.

nightcrawlercyp said:
3. Elaina can build a hut. Not the same thing at all

Opticflash said:


And from what website did you gather this "common sense"? This is not common sense at all. There's absolutely no reason to justify almost every person working for their respective government for every country as being evil and corrupt.

Furthermore, does Light share this sentiment?



How do you differentiate between the judicial system and a few specific people governing it?



I could ask you a 4th question, 5th question, 6th question, etc. Asking "why can't they do X" is logically unsound.



No evidence for this.

nightcrawlercyp said:
1. people by their nature are selfish . Is a problem that follows the man from the cradle to the grave. Is basic psychology. If there is no way to be held responsible for your actions most people would do the exact same thing. And yes I think Light considers the judicial system corrupt beyond redemption. This is his primary motivation at least at the beginning. But after a while he develops a God complex and after L dies it reaches full madness.

nightcrawlercyp said:
2. you put a hard question and I do not know how to answer except by the fact that most of the people working in the system would reject a reform, a return to times where you had to do hard labor as a prisoner if you want to eat more than bread and water . Let's forget about gym, internet, tv, cigarettes, booze and many other benefits most people in jail have.

nightcrawlercyp said:
3. you could and probably I would have an answer for that as well.

nightcrawlercyp said:
4. I disagree but let's drop this here.

Opticflash said:


We are talking specifically about FBI agents and by extension governmental authorities. You claimed the vast majority (~99.9%) of all government personnel in the world are corrupt, and so it is reasonable to dispose of them. I asked you for your reasoning or evidence for this. You claimed the reasoning is most people by their nature are selfish. Then by extension, are we saying that Light should get rid of most people in general, and that being a government personnel is irrelevant? Perhaps you meant that government personnel have control over the population, and therefore should disappear. However in this case, do you have evidence that most governments' actions harm the ordinary citizen?

He might think the judicial system is corrupt, he might not, but he killed FBI agents who were doing their job following orders and had no power over whether all criminals deserve the death penalty.



Perhaps I chose the "governing" as the wrong word. What I mean is how Light can differentiate between the "corrupt" authoritative figures from figures that are apparently just doing their job like Raye Penber.



You are correct. I could ask you an infinite number of "why can't" questions and you could come up with an infinite number of answers. However the anime only has ~23 minutes of screen time. Therefore the anime, using its finite time, cannot answer an infinite number of "why can't" queries. And therefore "why can't" are illogical questions to ask and expect the anime to address.

The anime for Demon Slayer can answer the question "why can't the corps build a high power broadband laser?"; it just didn't. The anime for Danmachi can answer why Hestia can't hold a party as a decoy with the monsters sneaking out at night, it just didn't. It is unreasonable for me to suggest that the story is developed poorly because, using its finite time and story telling, it didn't address any of those "why can't" questions.



There is nothing to disagree here. Saying there is no evidence for Elaina being able to build a hut (that can adequately sustain itself) is almost as close to an objective statement as you can get. It's almost akin to saying there is no evidence that there is a teapot orbiting Neptune, which is (close to) an objective, truthful statement.

nightcrawlercyp said:
1. is ok to fire them not necessary dispose of them. The biggest evidence of the fact governments harm their citizens are the abuses that happen right now all over the world.

nightcrawlercyp said:
2. he cannot. But he is just defending himself. Those cops generally hunt him because he killed people that in a normal system would be executed.

nightcrawlercyp said:
3. they are not illogical. I try to apply logic to every anime universe.

nightcrawlercyp said:
4. I brought arguments and evidence you just refused them. Building a huge hole versus moving a few materials around to make a hut which is harder? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vg9L3di4P0&ab_channel=BuildingSkill here is an example. Also in my country extremely poor people and hermits would often build what is called a bordei which basically a small hole in the ground covered by a roof made of various materials. Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBiu1Emv31Q&ab_channel=TAOutdoors . And would you say those are hard to build for a regular person? Let alone a witch?