cleo said: You're reasoning from the viewers point of view, while I'm trying to reason from the pov of the characters.
I am reasoning from the view point of the characters and the viewpoint of the observer. I do understand the character motivations but it by no means dictates that I have to agree with them.
cleo said: Ofcourse for the viewers Kazahaya is easy to read, but we've concluded some eps ago that the awkwardness between K&S is anything but helpfull for the understanding between the two. The last eps made it pretty clear that he completely confused Sawako, and with his "I thought I was the only guy close to you - Oh sorry, forget about that", I think any girl would be.
You said that you are looking at things from the character’s viewpoint and yet you still fail to understand why Kazehaya recanted his statement. The answer can clearly be tied back to what he disclosed during his conversation with Ryu when they were sitting on the sports field. He plainly stated that he regretted saying such a thing to Sawako especially when she was trying to get used to a new class. He said that he felt that he had made her uncomfortable especially because she looked troubled at the time and in every subsequent meeting between them afterwards. Then during the tutoring session, when Kazehaya saw how well received Sawako’s teaching was and how happy she looked, the camera focused on him and he smiled. I personally believe that his smile signified his resolution to be patient a little longer particularly since she seemed so happy at the moment. I also believe that’s why he told her not to let what he said bother her. He was trying to undo what he had said since from his viewpoint Sawako always looked very nervous and troubled whenever she saw him after he had said that thing to her.
cleo said:Taylor_elle said: Anyway, in case you might actually think that Kazehaya has not supported Sawako
No I don't, and I never said I thought so.
I like discussing this series, but please don't put words in my mouth.
I like discussing this series too but please don’t accuse me of putting words in your mouth. In case you did not realize, I qualified my statement with “might” which expresses a possibility and not a certainty.
cleo said: You've made up your mind that Kent is a bastard, I think it's possible he just wants to be supportive (and yes, I think it's posiible to be supportive without trying to be someone's saviour).
Please don’t assume that you know what is going on inside my head. In the first place, I have never been exactly sure what people mean when they call someone else a bastard especially when I know the word to be a derogatory name for a child born out of wedlock. And honestly, I don’t use such offensive words.
Secondly, there is nothing in any of my posts that should lead anyone to believe that I think of Kento in any other way but as a meddler. Therefore, please don’t assume anything else.
I don’t think that it’s unfair to say that he is a meddler. His unsolicited involvement in the affairs of others makes him one. I think it’s safe to say that neither Sawako nor Kazehaya invited him into their affairs. He just basically interjected himself into the situation.
Furthermore, in all his conversations with Sawako, it is almost always a one-sided conversation wherein he tries to tell Sawako how she should be, how she should feel, how she should act, etc. He never tries to engage her in conversation that goes beyond that point and into the territory of actually getting to know her. That, more than anything else, suggests that he is trying to save her.
cleo said: Basically he's telling her to open her eyes to the current situation.
Open her eyes to what situation? One thing I find very disturbing about this whole affair is that not for a moment has Kento tried to discover what Sawako truly wants. It’s like it hasn’t even entered his sphere of thought to consider that. Does Sawako want to be the person that he is trying to make her into? Does Sawako want to act in the way that Kento wants her to? This particular question was brought to the forefront of my mind after Sawako admitted in this episode that even though her goal all along had been to fit into the class, she had completely forgotten about it because of Kazehaya (and most likely Chizu-chan and Yano-chin). I can only conclude that as she became surrounded by a few sincere friends, that goal took on less significance and plummeted in her priority. After all, having a few genuine friends is certainly the better outcome.
cleo said: You may argue that only Kazehaya or her close friends have that right, but I really don't think it's such a bad thing.
Fair enough. You obviously don’t see how inappropriate his actions are but I do especially when considering that his interference was never solicited by Sawako or Kazehaya.
cleo said: And asking her if she likes to be pitied by Kazehaya is a sound question, given the fact that Kazehaya hasn't made it plain to either Sawako or Kent that he's acting out of love instead of pity.
I won’t even touch upon how inappropriate that question was but I’ll tell you this: I don’t think for a moment that Sawako actually thought that Kazehaya pitied her otherwise during this episode she would not have declared in her thoughts that she was shocked to find that Kurumi’s past accusation was true in light of what Kento just told her. And still you cannot see the harm that Kento is inflicting on this impressionable girl by causing her to doubt her own judgment.
cleo said: During the talk between Kent and Kazehaya, Kent tries to figure out Kazehaya's feelings for Sawako. He makes it quite plain he thinks Kazehaya acts out of pity. Yet Kazehaya doesn't deny he's acting out of pity, he doesn't say a word when Kent says K & S aren't close and he keeps quiet when Kent mentions it's about ' secrets of the heart'.
Please watch the episode again. At no point during the conversation was Kento attempting to, as you say, figure out Kazehaya’s feelings. This is true of the anime and it’s true of the manga. At that point Kento was already convinced, like the rest of the school that Kazehaya acts that way with Sawako because he cannot leave outcasts alone. Throughout the conversation Kento stuck to his mission, which was basically to tell Kazehaya to stay away from Sawako. Moreover, when Kento asked Kazehaya if he doesn’t pity Sawako, Kazehaya immediately asked him to explain himself but Kento laughed it off and told him not to be so angry.
Again, you said that you look at things from the character’s viewpoint, yet you do not seem to understand that Kazehaya, being the person he is, would not voluntarily reveal to his friends much less an almost stranger things that he deems his personal business. And there is absolutely no reason why he should have to. After all, what is Kento’s significance in Kazehaya’s relationship with Sawako? I really don’t understand how you do not see that Kento crossed the line especially when he was bold-faced enough to engage Kazehaya in such a personal conversation when they are as close as two people can be to strangers.
cleo said: How has Kazehaya given Kento the impression he's in love with Sawako'?
Apart from the fact that Kento has long ago made up his mind that Kazehaya only acts that way with Sawako because he can’t leave outcasts alone, I re-iterate who is Kento in Kazehaya’s eyes? They are practically strangers.
cleo said: In Kento's eyes: who the heck is Kazehaya to tell him Sawako isn't his business?
Considering the fact that the topic of conversation was Kento’s wish to persuade Kazehaya into severing his relationship with Sawako, I’d say that Kazehaya had every right to tell him to stay out of his business.
cleo said: I highly doubt Kent would've made his move if Kazehaya had said he did.
Wait, do you actually believe that Kento is interested in Sawako in that way? On the contrary, I believe otherwise. Up to now I see nothing to support that he has romantic feelings for Sawako. Personally I believe that Sawako’s tears is the trigger that prompted his spur of the moment offer to be her consolation prize.
cleo said: Besides: suppose some guy at some point had told Kazehaya back in S1 to mind his own business. Would you really be satisfied if he'd given up just because of that?
Again, you don’t seem to understand what is going on with Kazehaya. Like I explained on the thread for the last episode, Kazehaya was pushed into confusion by Chizu. Why do you think the mangaka made a point of having Chizu tormented over this? Kazehaya only began to doubt himself after Chizu agreed that he did not understand Sawako. I also stated on that thread that Chizu was a perfect choice for the mangaka to use because not only is she clueless, she’s also someone whose opinion Kazehaya could reasonably trust particularly because she’s a close friend of Sawako’s. |