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Dec 24, 2023 1:49 PM
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Mar 2021
381
ghier said:
Suzeray87 said:

It’s not my opinion the parallels between Gabi/Falco and Eren/Mikasa… but rather a fact from the author. Just like how the point of view of the story flipped to the perspective of the Marleyans. You made one grave error with your rebuttal. You said, Gabi had no reason to hate the Eldians. But you’re wrong… and you know you’re wrong. Because in Gabi’s own eyes she saw Eren attack and kill her friends and comrades. Proving exactly the brainwashing rhetoric Willy Tybur was spewing. Then she saw the people of paradis gun down people she cared about… very similar to what Eren seen and his reaction to that very vengeance parallels Gabi. And just like how Mikasa chases after Eren who loves him and wants to protect him… so does Falco chase after Gabi who wants to protect her and loves her. I’m sorry. This isn’t really up to debate… it just is 1 + 1 = 2, the sky is blue, and Gabi/Falco parallels Eren/Mikasa and the difference between the two pairs is how one gets the ‘good’ ending and the other gets the ‘bad’ ending.

Well hold on there, Gabi’s reason for hating Eldians is not the same. There is no complications or moral ambiguity in hating monsters that eat people. For Gabi, she hated people that did nothing to her (before the Marley attack of course). I do understand the author wanted this comparison and I saw it in the show. But in reality, it’s not the exact same as I’ve seen people portray it in the forums.

Gabi’s transition is understandable and more impactful thematically. Eren’s is unfathomably stupid. Eren was never really discriminatory or manipulated in a way that shaped his view of people incorrectly. And he ended up committing genocide after finding the people on the outside were as innocent as those in paradis. Eren’s path is not similar to Gabi’s in the meaningful way that has been portrayed to me. Their personalities are very similar and they both are driven to fight for revenge from a young age and from similar events. And this is good for showing irony in Eren’s actions when thinking back on what he went through … but not much more beyond that.

So you’re right, the comparison is there. But the meaningfulness of it … well, I’d say there’s nothing there for the eventual paths they chose to go down. Doesn’t really matter what the author intended, it isn’t there. If he wanted it to be more meaningful, he should have thought of something different for Eren’s part in the ending.

I 100% disagree with you because Titans aren’t monsters tho. Eren grew up watching the scouts come home with less soldiers than what they left with. A lot of the titans are victims of Marley, look at Dina. Eren hated that particular Titan more than any other Titan for the death of his mom. He didn’t know that it was his father’s ex wife and the mother of Zeke nor did she know what happen to her.

In my opinion the people of paradis being called devils are exactly the same as Titans being considered monsters. Royals and high ranking members of BOTH societies knew the truth and decide to brainwash their people or completely erase their memories. The difference in character between Eren and Gabi are how they approach this dilemma. Gabi didn’t want to hear any of it especially because she’ll have to accept she killed an innocent person. Eren is far more complicated he was absolutely stunned by King Reiss’s revelation and if it wasn’t was for Historia to step up in the cave and have her big moment he wouldn’t have moved forward.

As for you saying it wasn’t meaningful. I 100% agree with you because I’m not you. I can’t tell you how you should feel or how you gauge allegories. But the parallels between Eren and Gabi is why Gabi is in my favorite character list… so I may be biased and wrong person to debate that besides the two paragraphs I wrote above this.
Dec 24, 2023 2:13 PM
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Aug 2019
1374
Suzeray87 said:
ghier said:

Well hold on there, Gabi’s reason for hating Eldians is not the same. There is no complications or moral ambiguity in hating monsters that eat people. For Gabi, she hated people that did nothing to her (before the Marley attack of course). I do understand the author wanted this comparison and I saw it in the show. But in reality, it’s not the exact same as I’ve seen people portray it in the forums.

Gabi’s transition is understandable and more impactful thematically. Eren’s is unfathomably stupid. Eren was never really discriminatory or manipulated in a way that shaped his view of people incorrectly. And he ended up committing genocide after finding the people on the outside were as innocent as those in paradis. Eren’s path is not similar to Gabi’s in the meaningful way that has been portrayed to me. Their personalities are very similar and they both are driven to fight for revenge from a young age and from similar events. And this is good for showing irony in Eren’s actions when thinking back on what he went through … but not much more beyond that.

So you’re right, the comparison is there. But the meaningfulness of it … well, I’d say there’s nothing there for the eventual paths they chose to go down. Doesn’t really matter what the author intended, it isn’t there. If he wanted it to be more meaningful, he should have thought of something different for Eren’s part in the ending.

I 100% disagree with you because Titans aren’t monsters tho. Eren grew up watching the scouts come home with less soldiers than what they left with. A lot of the titans are victims of Marley, look at Dina. Eren hated that particular Titan more than any other Titan for the death of his mom. He didn’t know that it was his father’s ex wife and the mother of Zeke nor did she know what happen to her.

In my opinion the people of paradis being called devils are exactly the same as Titans being considered monsters. Royals and high ranking members of BOTH societies knew the truth and decide to brainwash their people or completely erase their memories. The difference in character between Eren and Gabi are how they approach this dilemma. Gabi didn’t want to hear any of it especially because she’ll have to accept she killed an innocent person. Eren is far more complicated he was absolutely stunned by King Reiss’s revelation and if it wasn’t was for Historia to step up in the cave and have her big moment he wouldn’t have moved forward.

As for you saying it wasn’t meaningful. I 100% agree with you because I’m not you. I can’t tell you how you should feel or how you gauge allegories. But the parallels between Eren and Gabi is why Gabi is in my favorite character list… so I may be biased and wrong person to debate that besides the two paragraphs I wrote above this.

Uh, no, the people inside titans are as good as dead and are nowhere near exacting their will. The titans themselves are monsters. It’s bullshit to say otherwise and is an argument to make when in denial.

Sure the people behind the presence of those monsters were not revealed until way later on in Eren’s life and changed his feelings a bit. But that ain’t anywhere near the same as the path to realizing you were wrong to discriminate.
Dec 24, 2023 2:23 PM
Offline
Mar 2021
381
ghier said:
Suzeray87 said:

I 100% disagree with you because Titans aren’t monsters tho. Eren grew up watching the scouts come home with less soldiers than what they left with. A lot of the titans are victims of Marley, look at Dina. Eren hated that particular Titan more than any other Titan for the death of his mom. He didn’t know that it was his father’s ex wife and the mother of Zeke nor did she know what happen to her.

In my opinion the people of paradis being called devils are exactly the same as Titans being considered monsters. Royals and high ranking members of BOTH societies knew the truth and decide to brainwash their people or completely erase their memories. The difference in character between Eren and Gabi are how they approach this dilemma. Gabi didn’t want to hear any of it especially because she’ll have to accept she killed an innocent person. Eren is far more complicated he was absolutely stunned by King Reiss’s revelation and if it wasn’t was for Historia to step up in the cave and have her big moment he wouldn’t have moved forward.

As for you saying it wasn’t meaningful. I 100% agree with you because I’m not you. I can’t tell you how you should feel or how you gauge allegories. But the parallels between Eren and Gabi is why Gabi is in my favorite character list… so I may be biased and wrong person to debate that besides the two paragraphs I wrote above this.

Uh, no, the people inside titans are as good as dead and are nowhere near exacting their will. The titans themselves are monsters. It’s bullshit to say otherwise and is an argument to make when in denial.

Sure the people behind the presence of those monsters were not revealed until way later on in Eren’s life and changed his feelings a bit. But that ain’t anywhere near the same as the path to realizing you were wrong to discriminate.

Agree to disagree 🤝. Nice to actually debate and not call eachother names or subtle jabs at the other like how usually these debates on here go with my experience.
Dec 25, 2023 4:52 PM
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Nov 2017
1
She's just annoying brat with thick plot armor. Pass.
Dec 26, 2023 10:40 AM
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May 2015
4
it's only natural to hate her at first, but at the end of the day she's just a kid trying to make sense of everything. she's a lot like eren in that sense of wanting revenge and being so full of energy. she's not a bad character at all tbh.
Dec 26, 2023 10:42 AM
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May 2015
4
touji said:
it's only natural to hate her at first, but at the end of the day she's just a kid trying to make sense of everything. she's a lot like eren in that sense of wanting revenge and being so full of energy. she's not a bad character at all tbh.

now appreciation, now that's stretching it a bit lol.
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