So Million knives was the Hero?

Mathi786 said:
I keep wondering, why does million knives is being portrayed as villain, he essentially had a very good point, It had much depth and conviction, 

I kinda feel like I m bit weird but I keep understanding villains's point of view more here, human's were just exploiting plants and then killing them like they are machines, And Nai was fighting against oppression and injustice, why is he the bad guy? Bcz he's killing the enemy but enemy is also killing them, that's how war works,
Also Vash's idea and philosophy was a bit pathetic, he said I will just keep running from them, when he didn't even do anything wrong that only makes Nai's point stronger,

I would like people opinion on this but plz stay respectful
Thanks 

Andr0o said:
It's a fair point. If you don't assign any special moral weight to humanity's existence, then you can justify basically anything Knives did as an act of self-defence. That's not to say his methods were justified, and his piggish inability to try to reason with people rather than use force to roll over them is classic "written to be dumb" villain shit. In another story, the final conflict might have been resolved by Vash agreeing to help Knives carve out a place for Plants alongside humanity, but neither character was willing to compromise on the key conflict - whether or not humanity could be trusted to let them live. Knives was probably strong enough to hold his own against anything humanity could throw at him, so the threat they actually pose him is negligible.

Lightsrevenge said:

Vash is supposed to be like Jesus. He takes the blame for everything, he takes all their anger and he still loves humanity. So he’s going to keep running because he doesn’t want to fight them and kill people.

Jerm0811 said:
Knives is the villain because he’s psychotic and he’s trying to commit genocide. I don’t think this is too difficult to understand.

deg said:
Knives - competition or darwinism aka kill or be killed or survival of the strongest or better race in this context
Vash - coexistence and cooperation he knows some humans are evil but not all and humanity is always trying to be better

so i wonder which is better

Mathi786 said:


Or more likely

Knives- taking issue seriously doing something to resolve it, got on the right solution that weak species has to die anyway, bcz two species with a huge power gap and freedom of choice cannot exist together, like superman and earthlings, And also making the tough decisions

Vash- A pussy who's running for the last 150 years for no reason and not trying to solve anything and just talks a lot, using pretty words but fails at the end everytime,

I think you should wonder again and keep wondering

Mathi786 said:


That's a very shallow view of the whole thing, bcz plants are also being killed on a mass scale, are you saying the don't matter?

deg said:


so you want more competition than more cooperation? thats how world war starts and that is how society collapse

Mathi786 said:


I m saying there is no competition to begin with, one has to die for the other one survive period, competition happens when two things are equally matched, it doesn't happen between an adult and a child

Jerm0811 said:

Oh man. Knives is actively trying to eliminate the human race. The humans are not actively trying to eliminate the plants. Furthermore, the plants (which are used for energy and if they are let free they expend all their energy and kill themselves) are only forced to use all their energy and die when humans require it. The primary reason humans need to use all that energy is BECAUSE Knives forced the ships to crash in order to kill humans. On top of that, as Vash shows, humans 1. Are capable of growing and caring more for plants and 2. The plants are capable of being healed and then 3. The humans and plants need each other to survive and therefore they need to keep each other around.

So no, it’s not a shallow way of looking at it. Knives has a valid argument and can be a sympathetic figure, but trying to pretend he’s not a villain is just delusional.

deg said:


predators and preys are in a constant competition to survive more years, preys survive more by overpopulation of their species while predators eat more of this preys

ye that is kill or be killed aka eat or be eaten so youre a social darwinist

Mathi786 said:


It's not as simple as predators and prey, bcz whenever you're coming up with these analogies all you can do is look at the animals, my whole thing is that the species in this show are not animals they possess choice of freedom and intelligence, that's why I m saying they can't co exist, there are other factors involved too,

Let me make it simple, if there was a Kryptonian like superman among humans, the only way we could live is by killing him, there is no other possible way,

I hope you get it now

Mathi786 said:

All the points you gave are invalid, It doesn't matter if humanity isn't trying to actively kill plants, they are doing it regardless even if it's out of necessity or mistake, and knives forced the ship to collapse bcz he saw the horrors being inflicted on plants by humans so again you are wrong.
Another point is that humans are able to grow and care so what? Should he wait for himan to give them rights in another 500 years, I mean come on are hearing yourself?

Plants can be healed you said? Well so human can also heal so its ok to hurt them?
All I can say is you r very biased bcz makers of the show are using your sympathy to yourself and your friends as humans to sell you the show,

M not saying it's wrong and I would've destroyed plants too but just it's unfair paint yourself as heroes when you're clearly not

deg said:


so you have no intention of coexisting with hot sexy aliens from space for example? ok that is on you but do not force your beliefs on others that wants coexistence

Mathi786 said:


It's not a belief, its fact you cannot coexist with them, you have to destroy in order survive but I guess you don't have enough intellect to look past a glass wall,
Good for you, Ignorance is a bliss

Jerm0811 said:

Dude is this Millions Knives burner account? It’s not like plants are being killed all over, it’s only in certain places where humans need the energy. Also, knives crashed the ship because of what was done to 1 (ONE) plant, not many, and also what happened to that plant was explained to him and said was a massive mistake they did not want to repeat. At no point does Knives also attempt to get humans to treat plants better before going to killing them, as opposed to Vash. And AGAIN, if humans do not use plants they will use all their energy and die, showing that they need humans to survive.

Also, when I say plants can be healed, it’s because they are still alive. YOU CANNOT HEAL HUMANS THAT ARE KILLED. I don’t know how you don’t understand that. And you’re saying I’m biased towards what? The fact that I think the purposeful elimination of an entire race is bad? Like humans need plants to survive and they want a symbiotic and sustainable relationship. Knives wants to completely eliminate humans. Again, his argument is sympathetic, but there’s no way you can say he’s not a villain. I’m not saying that humans are perfect or by any means even good, but Knives is undeniably a villain. He is a BAD PERSON for wanting to exterminate an entire race. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Mathi786 said:


I have a very big issue with your statement bcz I m a Muslim and you bring up Jesus, but then again I don't want to get into a religious argument so I'll just pass here

Lightsrevenge said:
sorry I’m basing my statement off the OG Trigun which has a lot more religious symbolism. Did not mean to offend anyone

Mathi786 said:



And now you're making an emotional argument, that's a bit sad I guess I did push you a lot,

Ok let me break it down again to you, you said they only got killed at certain places where humans need energy, and you make it seem like it no big deal, you cannot kill anybody period and if you do then you have to be held accountable, you cannot just say oh oopsie we needed energy so we killed some plant, and also didn't you see in the end there were so many red plants, they were all going to die if knives didn't took them back,

Also you said that in the ship they only killed one plant, you make it seem like oh it's just one plant, no big deal let's just forget it, and guess what you are wrong in the ship they didn't kill just one plant, they only showed one plant they killed a lot more,

And when I said humans can be healed, I didn't mean healing them after killing them,I meant healing them before completely killing them, bcz that's what you want to do with plants,

And lastly if you want to say that knives is a villain undeniably than you have to admit humans are villains too undeniably, and if knives want to eradicate them, he is justified in that, same way humans are justified in this case.

deg said:


if intelligence means following natural laws like darwinism like you want with kill or be killed or eat or be eaten then i do not want to live in a society that you live in

society follows man made laws aka positive laws and not natural laws of nature

natural is not always good

we got aliens in real life called immigrants so it says more about your political beliefs here too

Mathi786 said:


You keep bringing Darwin up when he has nothing to do with it,and then you r saying about political beliefs, what does politics have anything to do with common sense, and now you're calling immigrants aliens when they're the same species as you are,

Look I think this argument is bit too much for you, you just want to have sex with aliens, I get it let's just leave it there
Nice chatting with yo

Jerm0811 said:

I think you’re mistaken if you think I’m emotional - I’m not one of the humans in the show. It seems like you are purposefully misunderstanding points for some reason.

Let me remind you what your original post is about. You were talking about Millions Knives as a villain. Full stop. Regardless of what humans have done, to genocide them is evil. Millions Knives is therefore evil.

You mention how you shouldn’t kill anybody and therefore must be held accountable. However, Knives is holding all humans accountable for the actions of only some. There are plenty of humans that live peacefully and sustainably with plants, so why is it justified for him to kill them?

On the ship the humans killed Tesla which was the one plant which was very explicitly stated to be a massive mistake by Rem. They don’t try to justify it or say “oopsies” like you think I did. Did you want them to parade the dead body around, flagellating themselves over it? The many red dying plants also only appear after the ship has crash landed, which was because of, guess who? Millions Knives.

And it seems that you don’t understand the healing part. So let me explain again. Humans need plants for energy. Plants need humans to survive. Because humans need plants for energy, they DON’T want plants to die. They try to not kill the plants and so they try to heal them. However you can’t heal dead humans, which is obvious to you apparently except Millions Knives is KILLING HUMANS. How don’t you get this man. Humans are in favor of healing plants to live together, Knives would rather kill all humans than heal them or find a way to allow both groups to live.

Then you talk about humans being villains. Ok. So what. Oh, humans are evil? Even if that’s true, so what? That’s not what your post is about. Your post is about whether Knives is a villain or not. And he’s committing genocide, so *regardless* of how evil humans are, Millions Knives is also human. Why are you being so obtuse and contrarian. Like killing all humans despite them wanting to live alongside plants is not justifiable. It would be one thing if Knives only wanted to remove plants (which he does) but he ALSO wants to kill all humans. Please man please develop some media literacy.

The thing is, Millions Knives is one person. Humans are an entire race. Knives is the only one responsible for his actions, but is a child in the orphanage responsible for the actions of a soldier? Your argument is so frustratingly incoherent.

Mathi786 said:


Ok first of all calm down calm down, we're just talking about fiction here, take it easy,

I guess I couldn't convey my point properly,
My initial point was that knives isn't a villain and he shouldn't be portrayed as one, but if you insist knives is a villain than humans are also villains and again killing them shouldn't be seen as evil act on only knives side,

My problem begins when you say knives is the only problem here, myself I don't have any problem with knives trying to genocide humans or humans exploiting and killing plants, I think it's perfectly natural,

Do you see my point here, I m saying that when you add a moral debate and say knives is the bad guy or some bullshit like than I say you are wrong, all the examples I gave meaning killing Tesla or red plants or knives killing children are just collateral damage nothing more, I was just using these example to solidify my point but these examples are not the point itself,

Point is knives isn't a villan

deg said:


legal definition of immigrants are aliens you know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)

anyway too many racist this days and this thread is racist towards the human race and makes the plants the master race aka nazism and darwinism again

Jerm0811 said:

Nope, no longer engaging in this charade. You’re making non points. If you want to be a fucking moron, go ahead, but I’m not willing to lose any more brain cells conversing with you.

Mathi786 said:


Well I m not white so I don't give a fuck about racism or political bullshit you are trying to come up with,

M not against humans in this case, m just saying both of these species are justified in their actions but you already demonstrated you don't enough intelligence to come up with your own points so you're using this bullshit

P.s it's funny, I can't believe you said I m racist towards humanity, it says a lot about your mental condition

deg said:


no you keep saying Knives is right to do genocide against humanity so yes that is racism towards humanity in this case since you side with the plants only here

Mathi786 said:


I keep saying both of them are right or maybe both of them are wrong, but you're saying one side is better than the other that's the problem

deg said:


no you keep saying Knives is right to do genocide against humanity so yes that is racism towards humanity in this case since you side with the plants only here

you do not want coexistence remember?

projecting about your mental condition?

Mathi786 said:


Possiblity of coexistence doesn't exist I explained it to you man, I can't do it again

deg said:


it does not matter since we are talking about beliefs of the characters in here plus ideals is what change society or the world more than realism

Mathi786 said:


Fine keep wishfully thinking that someday we'll have unicorn and money would start growing on trees, and then let's see how much change you bring to society

deg said:


dude the modern world is like more ideal than the ancient world already

Mathi786 said:


Oh I get it, you're someone who think just bcz we have androids these days we're better than our ancestors,
Just that statement shows that you are not in touch with your reality

deg said:


lol go back to the jungle then and go eat or be eaten and kill or be killed there like your idol Knives want

Mathi786 said:


You think there was a time like that?
There was never a time were humans lived like animals, our ancestors were smarter than us,
If you want to compare we're living like animals in modern time compared to ancient times, what you need to do is read and research about history rather than looking at your phone and being manipulated by media like a dumbass

Mathi786 said:


Wait you study on Wikipedia hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

I m not going waste anymore if my time, bye

Mathi786 said:
I keep wondering, why does million knives is being portrayed as villain, he essentially had a very good point, It had much depth and conviction, 

I kinda feel like I m bit weird but I keep understanding villains's point of view more here, human's were just exploiting plants and then killing them like they are machines, And Nai was fighting against oppression and injustice, why is he the bad guy? Bcz he's killing the enemy but enemy is also killing them, that's how war works,
Also Vash's idea and philosophy was a bit pathetic, he said I will just keep running from them, when he didn't even do anything wrong that only makes Nai's point stronger,

I would like people opinion on this but plz stay respectful
Thanks 

Edit: also I like to add this anime is just amazing, I never thought there would come a day when I might prefer 3d over 2d but now I do, some of the fighting scenes were so smooth and color Palette was top of the class, also the OP was amazing, I love the anime

Menyor said:
I see your point. From my perspective, Vash in this Trigun seemed more biased towards humans as compared to the ambiguous way Vash was portrayed in old Trigun which was better as it didn't made him look too biased over any side rather more like a wandering leaf who does & doesn't belong to either & each of the side.

Even though his own race was being discriminated & tortured, he seemed more concerned about discrimination & and the torture of humans. I know that should be the way but it certainly didn't felt that he was walking in center.
He sometimes seemed as if he was willing to let his own race die for the betterment of humans.

Leadle_Lee said:

Knives is literally doing what he’s fighting against. It just depends on who’s view you’re looking from. From the plants point of view, humans are bad. From the humans point of view, a plant caused them to land on a desert planet (that further sped up their mistreatment of use of plants so you can kinda blame Knives for that one) and is killing them wholesale for kind of no reason. I understand Knives’ viewpoint but that does not make him “right.” Violence is not always the answer. People usually respond in kind.