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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- I must say I liked this episode - it is a typical end of the world Precure stuff, nothing new can be invented. Ok they added some kind of TV transmission which isn’t always here - there was something like this in GoGo and Fresh. That overly optimistic view of humanity :D actually as weird this scene was, it was also one of the best. Mana was as dumb as usual, but her performing mindf*ck on Regina was fun. Not to fond of „let's talk” scenario as they should simply slaughter them… but that's how it is now :( Last few episodes started to improve my opinion about this series - it will remain at the end of the list with Suite and Smile but at least there is something good here. |
| I did like the TV thing as well, it's nice they remember the world doesn't turn around the Cures. Unlike Smile, they could've shown some images of how Black Hole Pierrot ruined Earth with his gravity, but nooooo, showing Cures crying was deemed more important. And speaking of Smile's bland finale that also the same issue this has: the annoying habit of talking the baddies to death. Literally every single villain in Suite was talked into becoming good and the same for Smile minus the Bad End Cures and Pierrot-Joker. Now they're doing that with Regina, and worse, KING SELFISH. No, just no. I loved how the Fresh Cures were all "No, screw YOU Moebius, we're not going to let you do your crap!" and didn't try to make him change sides. Then again there's the thing they have to make all the villains good now if not good all along, I don't mind some change of sides but it gives the feeling there is only one side all along, lame. Especially the hug. I know it's dumb, but it really annoys me Mana refused to fight Regina and made her change sides with a hug. They already did that bullshit with Smile where every single villain was defeated by Happy hugging them, and to an extent Melody reaching Noise. Even freaking Fusion was given this humilliation in New Stage 1. Screw that. Nagisa, Honoka and Hikari defeated Jaakukingu with death beams, same for Saki, Mai, Kaoru and Michiru with Gouyaan, and so on for 7 seasons; even Heartcatch ended with a giantess punching down. This is an action show, dammit, and the whole point of Pretty Cure was having better fighting than other magical girl shows. Nagisa wouldn't hug Regina, she'd punch her and tell her to stop being an idiot or something. Much like she didn't try to talk with Valdez, she and Honoka just punched him on the face. And on this topic, we spent a few eps saying Regina and Aguri had this special bond, that they were destined rivals, truly two halfs of the same person and blahblah, only for Aguri to do pretty much nothing but be a yesman for Mana and let Mana be the only one that matters for the whole Regina debacle. So much for that. Then again, Mana always wins and is always right, so if she says everyone is good then turns out Rousseau was right and they are, which is weird since they just made clear that didn't happen in the Trump Kingdom. Clearly humans aren't flawless because otherwise they wouldn't have found so many victims to make Selfishes, so maybe the idea is people from the Trump Kingdom are huge jackasses, or that they were all corruped because the Tiara was an awful plug, or Mana alters reality with her words so she's never wrong. My money is in the last one because Pink Cure bias. On a nice side I did like they remembered the Rikka and Ira thing, about damn time, and also that Rosetta can shoot their shield! If they only remembered Rosetta Balloon. In short not a terrible episode, but it's pretty clear this will be a bland finale like Suite's and Smile's. Come on, all other 7 shows had great finales, IMO the Yes one a bit less so but still better than any of these 3! Stop making your show for children even more childish, Toei! |
ZettaiRyouikiJan 18, 2014 2:40 PM
ZettaiRyouiki said: Literally every single villain in Suite was talked into becoming good and the same for Smile minus the Bad End Cures and Pierrot-Joker. Now they're doing that with Regina, and worse, KING SELFISH. No, just no Again, another aimless rant. You do realize that these villains were corrupted into being such? As in, these were perfectly peaceful people controlled into doing wrong? You don't kill these people if it can be helped. It'd be like sentencing/killing children (that don't know better) who are working for criminals/terrorists instead of saving them. The Dark King and Akudaikan/Gohyan were always self centered and chose to be so. It was impossible to kill Noise flat out as clearly stated before Suite's finale, and every villain there is (guess what!) corrupted into the role! However, Moebius... is a very special case. Sure, he isn't a nice person either, but he had a "protocol" that he couldn't help but follow because he was made to be such (those of you who've seen Fresh will know what I mean without having to spoil it). ZettaiRyouiki said: And on this topic, we spent a few eps saying Regina and Aguri had this special bond, that they were destined rivals, truly two halfs of the same person and blahblah, only for Aguri to do pretty much nothing but be a yesman for Mana and let Mana be the only one that matters for the whole Regina debacle. So much for that. Then again, Mana always wins and is always right, so if she says everyone is good then turns out Rousseau was right and they are, which is weird since they just made clear that didn't happen in the Trump Kingdom. Clearly humans aren't flawless because otherwise they wouldn't have found so many victims to make Selfishes, so maybe the idea is people from the Trump Kingdom are huge jackasses, or that they were all corruped because the Tiara was an awful plug, or Mana alters reality with her words so she's never wrong. My money is in the last one because Pink Cure bias. I agree with your opinion that it should have been Aguri/Cure Ace's speech there and not Mana's, but I think you're forgeting/not seeing something: Mana taught her schoolmates/neighborhood/etc how to be selfless in troubled times. It's part of why everybody (in-universe, mind you) looks up to her. Remember seeing Jun in the evacuation scenes? If not, then how about (oh idk) a good number of the student body going back to assist with evac? It's not about being right or saying yes to everything (that was 5 seasons ago!); it's about sharing your love with those you care for and those that need it; and hoo boy does Anne's dark half and her father need it! The Trumph Kingdom sadly didn't have someone like Mana to teach/remind the people how to coorperate to conquer a problem. Sure they had Anne; but she was kept away from the populace until she was ready (typical...). It's not like the people there were jackasses; their personal survival instincts took over during the invasion (every man for himself). It's how the corruption there took over so easily as was clearly shown. Yes, I get that the Golden Crown was a bad plug. It's an old complaint by now. Before the moment of sealing, why couldn't they use the Crown to think of a better way to seal it? I don't know either... unless the Crown itself truly was the best way 10,000 years ago. |
RLinksoul said: I really like that the final battle is taking place on Earth. In all of the other seasons I can recall, the final battle takes place in space or in a magical world much like our own Trump Kingdom. I didn't even realise this amongst all the kickass moments until I read this, yet I completely agree. That, to me, adds so much more tension and pressure to this finale as compared to other series' finales. I believe it was also the 2nd time that happened with the 1st time being Splash Star (an 8 year difference between these two series!). I would also note Heartcatch to be an exception because... you know. RLinksoul said: Speaking of Trump Kingdom, I have mixed feelings about the way it was "doomed" as mentioned in this episode. It's realistic for people to put themselves above others when in a state of panic, and I liked how the people of Earth showed such selflessness in the face of doom, but... It's like... what makes the people of Earth better? Is it because Mana spoke, and therefor the laws of physics must bend to her will? Or is it because of her actions that the world is inspired to not be "selfish" like Trump Kingdom? I'm slightly more sure about my opinion on Trump's fall in that it makes some sense to me, but it still felt forced. The summary is that the King and Princess Anne had seriously sadistic choices to make over Morton's Fork. Worse, I think it's because the Trump Kingdom didn't have people like Mana to teach them "kindness during crisis". Read my earlier post on this thread for more about that theory. I highly believe that Mana's actions have rightfully major, and often contagious, influence in her world. After all, she's a role model among the students at her school at the least. She doesn't need to be a reality warper to inspire a crowd into doing the selfless thing. That's why I believe Earth has the resistance that it does against the Jikochuu. While this strength did stem from Mana, she grew into believing in her followers without having them rely on her (see episode 32). Example: Was it not for Jun's being there to remind the others about selflessness, the students would have most certainly becomes Jikochuus. Other called-back characters were also explictly shown to be doing such deeds without having being told to do so. Having said this, compare that to how the Trumph Kingdom's followers look to the King and Anne: they relied on their leaders and less on each other, which was their demise and formed the afforementioned Morton's Fork. RLinksoul said: All in all it was a nice episode. Certainly one of the best. At least the finale is becomming a literal saving grace for both this show and the villains. |
aNinjaWithAIDS said: Again, another aimless rant. You do realize that these villains were corrupted into being such? As in, these were perfectly peaceful people controlled into doing wrong? You don't kill these people if it can be helped. It'd be like sentencing/killing children (that don't know better) who are working for criminals/terrorists instead of saving them. Next time, huh, try reading my entire post. I said this two lines later: ZettaiRyouiki said: Then again there's the thing they have to make all the villains good now if not good all along, I don't mind some change of sides but it gives the feeling there is only one side all along, lame. That was the entire point of my rant: Before Fresh evil people were evil aside from the token not so evil villain like Kiriya, Kaoru and Michiru or Bunbee. From Fresh onwards more and more villains turn out to be brainwashed people or transformed fairies or some other nonsense, kind of like implying there aren't really evil people out there. Which not only isn't true, but it cheapens the plot and makes the fighting parts much blander since instead of Cures fighting to the death you get Cures talking to the death, the death of the interest for the show that is. In short, cut all the brainwash nonsense and make the evil people, y'know, EVIL. aNinjaWithAIDS said: I agree with your opinion that it should have been Aguri/Cure Ace's speech there and not Mana's, but I think you're forgeting/not seeing something: Mana taught her schoolmates/neighborhood/etc how to be selfless in troubled times. It's part of why everybody (in-universe, mind you) looks up to her. Remember seeing Jun in the evacuation scenes? If not, then how about (oh idk) a good number of the student body going back to assist with evac? It's not about being right or saying yes to everything (that was 5 seasons ago!); it's about sharing your love with those you care for and those that need it; and hoo boy does Anne's dark half and her father need it! The Trumph Kingdom sadly didn't have someone like Mana to teach/remind the people how to coorperate to conquer a problem. Sure they had Anne; but she was kept away from the populace until she was ready (typical...). It's not like the people there were jackasses; their personal survival instincts took over during the invasion (every man for himself). It's how the corruption there took over so easily as was clearly shown. Yes, I get that the Golden Crown was a bad plug. It's an old complaint by now. Before the moment of sealing, why couldn't they use the Crown to think of a better way to seal it? I don't know either... unless the Crown itself truly was the best way 10,000 years ago. So in short humanity is better literally because Mana is there. That is not Sue-ish or forced at all. Seriously, they might as well tell us Mana is Cure Jesus at this point. There's being an influential person and there's this. Ugh. Also the Crown thing was a joke, don't take it to heart. It's like me bringing up Rosetta Balloon every time, only I really mean that. You can't say "A different thing comes out each time" and then never use it again. RLinksoul said: I really like that the final battle is taking place on Earth. In all of the other seasons I can recall, the final battle takes place in space or in a magical world much like our own Trump Kingdom. Speaking of Trump Kingdom, I have mixed feelings about the way it was "doomed" as mentioned in this episode. It's realistic for people to put themselves above others when in a state of panic, and I liked how the people of Earth showed such selflessness in the face of doom, but... It's like... what makes the people of Earth better? Is it because Mana spoke, and therefor the laws of physics must bend to her will? Or is it because of her actions that the world is inspired to not be "selfish" like Trump Kingdom? All in all it was a nice episode. All three first seasons had the final battle on Earth. Yes too, I think. So did Smile. So it's not that special. And yeah, as said above they're all better because Mana. Screw Kenshirou, Mana is the savior of the new century. |
ZettaiRyouiki said: And yeah, as said above they're all better because Mana. Screw Kenshirou, Mana is the savior of the new century. Well, it seems that I can't dissuade you from your distaste for Mana. Of course, if this whole story starred Kenshiro and did the exact same things, it'd be my guess that you'd praise him more (don't take this comment too harshly please). I've made my case about Mana, and as much as I don't like her for the amount of spotlight she stole from the other Cures, I think she was a decent leader (I shall say it again) and role model. |
aNinjaWithAIDS said: Well, it seems that I can't dissuade you from your distaste for Mana. Of course, if this whole story starred Kenshiro and did the exact same things, it'd be my guess that you'd praise him more (don't take this comment too harshly please). I've made my case about Mana, and as much as I don't like her for the amount of spotlight she stole from the other Cures, I think she was a decent leader (I shall say it again) and role model. The problem isn't with Mana herself, as much as with how much the show bends over ass-backwards to glorify her to the nth degree. She never ever is wrong at anything, and even when she is the show pretends she wasn't. She is so important the first combination attack is the other girls using HER attack and the second is the other girls empowering her despite making the naming convention awkward. She gets a ridiculous ammount of speeches. She gets a lot of kills, before the show became combination spam that is. She steals the focus of what should've been Aguri's plotline. And now she is basically even more Jesus than Sailor Moon, and she owns the freaking Holy Grail. What little I know from the movie makes her come as super-important, I'll get back to you on this in a few months. Basically she's by far the worst hog the franchise has ever had, with everything revolving about her and how wonderful and flawless she is and how everyone loves her. And the worst part is that she is not a good leader, as a good leader inspires others instead of making them do what they say, and she's a terrible role model as her mentality is flawed. You help more people by teaching them to do shit than by doing their shit, and Mana never learns this even on the episode that shows this. They want it to come as "helping people is nice" and it comes as "if you have problems someone will come and fix them for you" which is a terrible lesson. Toei has written bad morals before, see the Smile episode that said lying was bad IN AN APRIL'S FOOLS EPISODE, but they were never the pillar of the main character and the entire series. And a bad pillar makes your building fall. That's my main problem with Mana, she's a bad character that could improve but never does because the writers adore her and fail to realize these flaws even when the show points them out. And it's irritating, because from the descriptions of it Megumi from Happines Charge will basically be Mana 2. We don't need one Mana, much less two. I hate sounding like a "the end is nigh" guy but Toei is basically making each season more childish than the last, and that's troublesome for the future of the franchise. And I like this franchise, dammit! |
| Polyamory, saving the universe. |
ZettaiRyouiki said: aNinjaWithAIDS said: Well, it seems that I can't dissuade you from your distaste for Mana. Of course, if this whole story starred Kenshiro and did the exact same things, it'd be my guess that you'd praise him more (don't take this comment too harshly please). I've made my case about Mana, and as much as I don't like her for the amount of spotlight she stole from the other Cures, I think she was a decent leader (I shall say it again) and role model. The problem isn't with Mana herself, as much as with how much the show bends over ass-backwards to glorify her to the nth degree. She never ever is wrong at anything, and even when she is the show pretends she wasn't. She is so important the first combination attack is the other girls using HER attack and the second is the other girls empowering her despite making the naming convention awkward. She gets a ridiculous ammount of speeches. She gets a lot of kills, before the show became combination spam that is. She steals the focus of what should've been Aguri's plotline. And now she is basically even more Jesus than Sailor Moon, and she owns the freaking Holy Grail. What little I know from the movie makes her come as super-important, I'll get back to you on this in a few months. Basically she's by far the worst hog the franchise has ever had, with everything revolving about her and how wonderful and flawless she is and how everyone loves her. And the worst part is that she is not a good leader, as a good leader inspires others instead of making them do what they say, and she's a terrible role model as her mentality is flawed. You help more people by teaching them to do shit than by doing their shit, and Mana never learns this even on the episode that shows this. They want it to come as "helping people is nice" and it comes as "if you have problems someone will come and fix them for you" which is a terrible lesson. Toei has written bad morals before, see the Smile episode that said lying was bad IN AN APRIL'S FOOLS EPISODE, but they were never the pillar of the main character and the entire series. And a bad pillar makes your building fall. That's my main problem with Mana, she's a bad character that could improve but never does because the writers adore her and fail to realize these flaws even when the show points them out. And it's irritating, because from the descriptions of it Megumi from Happines Charge will basically be Mana 2. We don't need one Mana, much less two. I hate sounding like a "the end is nigh" guy but Toei is basically making each season more childish than the last, and that's troublesome for the future of the franchise. And I like this franchise, dammit! Okay, I stand corrected. That jab at Smile was a little much imo because that show doesn't even bother taking itself very seriously in that it was meant to be comedy driven and sometimes nonsensical (one of the main things I love about that show in comparisson to the others). Still though, I realize your case from this, but let's please go into Happiness Charge with a fresh outlook. We can save our judgement for Megumi when her show has aired for a few months; and yes, one pink stain on this franchise is one too many. |
aNinjaWithAIDS said: Okay, I stand corrected. That jab at Smile was a little much imo because that show doesn't even bother taking itself very seriously in that it was meant to be comedy driven and sometimes nonsensical (one of the main things I love about that show in comparisson to the others). Smile doesn't try to take itself seriously, sure, but that moral was meant to be serious and it failed because of that. They should've had Yayoi get worried because her joke snowballed and she can't get out of it now without bringing up the "lying is wrong" part. aNinjaWithAIDS said: Still though, I realize your case from this, but let's please go into Happiness Charge with a fresh outlook. We can save our judgement for Megumi when her show has aired for a few months; and yes, one pink stain on this franchise is one too many. Fair enough, the MAL description for Love from Fresh also says she loves helping others and while not flawless she was handled better than Mana, so let's give Megumi a shot. |
| When all people were cheering up the pre cures I thought: Hey, Just add the miracle light and we have a movie scene. |
| It was kind of funny to me how the show was like "people on Earth are kinder than people in the Trump Kingdom". |
| Regina became a good girl once again. I hope she stays that way. |
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