The directing of Mushoku Tensei

Dije said:
Wasn't Nisekoi directed by the same guy of Monogatari Series. Nisekoi failed on technical level, go tell this to an anime elitist and see what happens

FilipPaul said:

Yeah, that was my point. Nisekoi had a small budget and dubious source material but still looked incredible and was a blast to watch. I thought it was strange that Mushoku Tensei with their incredible budget was uninteresting, at least to me.

FilipPaul said:
I’m not an expert on what the different staff roles are and what each are responsible for. Please correct me if I get anything wrong.

Mushoku Tensei has fluid animation, breathtaking background art, and a moving sountrack; even still, I could not get myself interested. I was a big fan of the WN’s scenario writing, and I can deal with Rudeus as a flawed character, but the anime failed to keep my attention.

That’s when I noticed a few issues with the directing/storyboarding: The tone is unclear at times, Mushoku Tensei didn’t do anything to keep dialogue scenes interesting, and the animation feels more technical than artistic. It also looks like this is the director’s first job as series director. I eventually noticed that Shaft’s works like Nisekoi and ef: A Tale of Memories and Melodies had uninteresting writing at times and often failed on a technical level but still kept themselves interesting.

In conclusion, I’m wondering if I’m the only one who thinks this or if I’m completely wrong. Feel free to leave your thoughts.

El001 said:
Mushoku Tensei has a very slow-burn, meticulous nature to its direction. And it has a habit of of making you feel like things will go back to their status quo, but they never do. When a turning point comes & something major happens, the consequences are permanent, and it makes the show all the more immersive because you feel like everything happening on screen is actually important. So, brilliant directing in my opinion.

That said, there's nothing wrong with disliking the directing style if it bores you. And I agree that the tone can be unclear at times.

Zweifooter said:
Don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean it to be mean. But I think a lot of your problem here is just that you SUBJECTIVELY don't like certain aspects of these works, but believe that they're actually OBJECTIVELY bad.

I think if you just changed your mindset a little, it probably wouldn't bother you as much.

Pillsbury_Uchiha said:
watch onimai to see their one other work

StaleNut said:
So you wanted a Monogatariesque direction for a series whose main selling point isn't the dialogue? I'm sorry but your logic here is pretty stupid. MT's focus is the world building, fights and character development, the dialogue is the least important aspect of the entire series. So why would they try to enhance it?

If you like dialogue heavy shows with avant-garde interaction sequences like Monogatari, then I'm sorry to say but MT was never supposed to be like that. Nor is the novel written in such a way that can suggest such "artistic animation" (I'm still not sure what that even means).

K-Arlovski said:
This feels like a very non sensical sporadic and forced piece of criticism. Not even sure what the conclusion here is.. I found the animation deliberate and the directing fluid and solid, intentional.

FilipPaul said:

World building and character development sounds like dialogue to me. MT also had an absurd amount of dialogue for how focused you say it is on its fights.

A series doesn’t have to be avant garde to have interesting dialogue: Mushishi, Fate/Stay Night Heavens Feel III, and Non Non Biyori all have interesting dialogue and strong directing and none are directed by Akiyuki Shinbou.

Monogatari had more and better animated fights than MT tbh

StaleNut said:

World building and character development sound like dialogue? Bro what are you even talking about? World building is constructed through either description in the case of novels, or cinematic appeal in visual portrayals like anime, which fyi, MT had a shit ton of cinematic appeal.

And the fights part is entirely subjective. I found MT's fights to be much more compelling. Shinier and more colorful art does not equal better animation.

Anime_Veteran66 said:
i love the show it was intresting

FilipPaul said:
I’m not an expert on what the different staff roles are and what each are responsible for. Please correct me if I get anything wrong.

Mushoku Tensei has fluid animation, breathtaking background art, and a moving sountrack; even still, I could not get myself interested. I was a big fan of the WN’s scenario writing, and I can deal with Rudeus as a flawed character, but the anime failed to keep my attention.

That’s when I noticed a few issues with the directing/storyboarding: The tone is unclear at times, Mushoku Tensei didn’t do anything to keep dialogue scenes interesting, and the animation feels more technical than artistic. It also looks like this is the director’s first job as series director. I eventually noticed that Shaft’s works like Nisekoi and ef: A Tale of Memories and Melodies had uninteresting writing at times and often failed on a technical level but still kept themselves interesting.

In conclusion, I’m wondering if I’m the only one who thinks this or if I’m completely wrong. Feel free to leave your thoughts.

FilipPaul said:

Yeah, that was my point. Nisekoi had a small budget and dubious source material but still looked incredible and was a blast to watch. I thought it was strange that Mushoku Tensei with their incredible budget was uninteresting, at least to me.

ejleon said:

The dialogue was interesting by itself, it didn’t need fancy directing.

If you are impatient and your attention span is very short, then you oh will not be interested in a dialogue based project.

You would prefer something more visually active than mentally stimulating.

FilipPaul said:
You brought up some really interesting thoughts, but I may have misrepresented what I thought.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think when I talked about dialogue you might have thought I meant the scriptwriting or VA performances, but I meant something a little different. I really enjoy dialogue with dynamic scenes and interesting shots. Kind of like how the monogatari series abstracts the characters and what they’re saying in various art styles or keeps the characters and the scenes moving. That’s why I referred to directing and storyboarding when talking about dialogue.

And by a clear tone, I meant like a scene being obviously dramatic or obviously comedic, or even selling me on a unique mood. I’ll use Konosuba since you brought it up. In order for much of the comedy to work, they have to sell you on a tone and subvert it. The director of Konosuba also shows his mastery of tone in his other works too.

Also I do think that MT is hella cinematic, it’s just the directing that bugs me.

ejleon said:

Nisekoi relied on the visual aspect because it liked depth in dialogue.

I tried to watch this anime and was annoyed by the craziness of the anime and confused by the keys and lock, which was all over the place.

In contrast, I enjoyed mushoku tensei so much more because it was not crazy antics and over the top animation.

ejleon said:

Have you ever seen the Godfather?

That movie has incredible dialogue, but there are plenty of scenes that are just people sitting and talking in the same room. The movie’s dialogue gets you so interested in the movie, that you don’t need the scene to be more active for visual sake.

That’s what I’m saying about the difference between an anime like Mushoku Tensei vs an anime like Nisekoi.

In Mushoku Tensei, it was more about the dialogue at times in this anime, not about the visual aspects.

FilipPaul said:

You’re right, part of the reason why I like anime is for the visual aspect, but it’s not because of my attention span.

Shows like Mushishi, Non Non Biyori, and ARIA demand attention span, but I love them all because they sell me on the tone and keep the dialogue interesting.

And I would absolutely prefer something more visually active than mentally stimulating when it comes to anime, but they both usually go hand-in-hand.

ejleon said:

I guess I would say some parts of Mushoku Tensei are visually active, but other parts are mentally stimulating.

It seems you liked the action parts, but didn’t like the slower parts with less action.

Is this accurate?

LostSpectre said:
I had no issues with any of your grievances, the tone always seemed clear to me, and I never found myself bored by dialogue. 

You should try giving an example (or two) of a specific instance, to give us a clearer picture of what you're talking about. 

FilipPaul said:

Could you tell me what sold you on the directing? I could be entirely missing the fluid pacing and natural scene composition, but is there a specific scene or moment or episode that worked really well for you?

Also, I’m sorry if my original post wasn’t clear. I wasn’t trying to make an argument, I was just trying to spark discussion on MT’s directing and see what others thought.

K-Arlovski said:

Theres nothing in particular to mention. The process of the main character growing up in the house, that whole multi episode sequence. Nothing ever felt particularly slowly or hastingly paced. Transitions from plot storypoints felt natural as if I was watching an actual story unfold instead of hasty jumps.

if you mean micro-scale directing then thats not something I particulary notice. Individual scene composition so on so forth. In any case it was for me solid enough that I didnt notice any abnormalities unlike in many other animes where I do.

One such anime being world trigger, which I noticed you gave a high 7 score(for your own rating system high). World trigger having abysmally bad directing with terribly slow pacing, absolutely meaningless robotic dialog and with tens of epsidoes where the initial 5 minutes are a recap of last episode not even counting the inside-episode flashbacks forcefully inserted.

In contrast for me atleast MT had solid pacing with (for anime) relatively natural dialog which despite how numerous it was, usually either progressed the plot or meaningfully showed us something about the characters, their beliefs and so on. Uniquely to other characters.

XNohaco2468 said:
It's not problem of the staff, is your problem

FilipPaul said:

Thank you for asking! Episode 13, the scene starting at 3:50. The background art in this scene was stunning, but I feel like it exemplifies a lot of what I don’t like about MT.

For context, the scene is Roxy and her party talking about Rudeus’s party.

The characters really don’t move except for Roxy moving to take a seat. The characters kind of awkwardly stand around for the duration, so the storyboarding could have used a little more work.

While the lighting and background art are interesting, the mood it expresses is a serious one. The dark mood is reinforced by the sarcastic but bitter dialogue. However, the lighthearted music playing until halfway through keeps MT from selling me the dark tone.

I understand this kind of scene isn’t meant to be the highlight, but the directing really leans into its less interesting parts. The point of the scene is to build Roxy’s character, and more specifically, to show how Roxy worries for Rudeus. But the dialogue also chases butterflies and takes time to explain stuff that we could find out in a more organic way (like Ruijerd’s attractiveness).

LostSpectre said:
While I'm not entirely sold on the music here, I disagree that the mood is intended to be dark. Sure, it starts off with a more ominous feel, with a close up of Roxy's face, looking visibly scared and distressed, but then we move outward into a full view of the room. Now, we see that Roxy has actually been delivering this terrifying story, mostly to a wall, which makes sense, as neither of her party members seem to share any of her concerns. When Roxy does turn around and berate them for not taking her seriously, her body language appears to be done in a way that is mocking her. 

Combined with the blonde's sexual innuendo, my view of this scene's first half leans more towards comedy than anything dark, and I assume the purpose of it is in both in fleshing out Roxy's party, and highlighting the irony between the Dead End she's terrified of, being the same group of people she's looking for, but then again, I'm not usually one to overanalyze a scene. Now, as soon at the mood does actually start to get darker (after she sits) the music ends right on the most tense moment, which tells me the previous comedic mood has been replaced. If anything, I appreciate the directing more in this scene than I previously might have. 

I could certainly go into more depth about this, but it seems clear to me that the "boring" scene composition here served an actual purpose. 

FilipPaul said:
I’m not an expert on what the different staff roles are and what each are responsible for. Please correct me if I get anything wrong.

Mushoku Tensei has fluid animation, breathtaking background art, and a moving sountrack; even still, I could not get myself interested. I was a big fan of the WN’s scenario writing, and I can deal with Rudeus as a flawed character, but the anime failed to keep my attention.

That’s when I noticed a few issues with the directing/storyboarding: The tone is unclear at times, Mushoku Tensei didn’t do anything to keep dialogue scenes interesting, and the animation feels more technical than artistic. It also looks like this is the director’s first job as series director. I eventually noticed that Shaft’s works like Nisekoi and ef: A Tale of Memories and Melodies had uninteresting writing at times and often failed on a technical level but still kept themselves interesting.

In conclusion, I’m wondering if I’m the only one who thinks this or if I’m completely wrong. Feel free to leave your thoughts.

EDIT: Don’t be afraid to hop in without reading the whole discussion. I won’t bite.

NewestPersonHere said:
I am a LN reader.

Part one is a great adaptation but part two? Nope.

They skipped important content vital to the plot in part 2. That is the main reason why I tend to tell people to start reading from Volume 4 instead of Volume 7 for the LN.

iGotIceInMyRice said:

Seems like you enjoyed re zero… just read the Light novel/Web Novel. Witchculttranslation.com is where to continue it. It tackles what you disliked about MT. Personally Re Zero stomps MT in those areas that you mentioned except visuals since White Fox is constantly just declining in the man power but at least adapting masterfully so that’s good but compared to a whole studio dedicated to animate one show then yeah… Subaru gets to become one of the best fictional characters I’ve seen in Arc 5 and 6 (s3,s4) but you’ll probably be put off by it because of the lack of visuals and the amount of exposition.