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Dec 19, 2009 3:46 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
I am completely depressed and sad by this episode because...
Rina lost her voice and can't sing at the Venus Concert!
That's right I love Rina more than any character in this show. I claimed her. I love her song Sound of Destiny and now she can't sing at the Venus concert is so TT_TT that I screamed my lungs out to God saying "Rina....why her! Oh why!" in some barn...horses started acting up and someone came but I made a excuse that I though I saw some wild animal around. Why Rina...Why not Yuki, why not Yayoi...why Rina....why? Forgetting it is hard!All because of this asshole who stinks up everything! I hate him! I really want to be in 2D just to do something fatal to him! Aaargh the frustration that he only got caught by cops. At least I got to thank Hiiragi....he has changed my opinion on him...he is a good guy in the end.====>
Apart from that some interesting things were how Touya reacted with Yayoi in the hospital when Yuki went to the bathroom after she cried herself out because of what happened to Rina. I also find the present cute.....shows that Yuki still cares about Touya. What I found even more strange was Menou's mother coming into Touya's place and bringing alcohol/the painting with FAKE written over it.Menou's revelation was great! It shows a memory that we all wanted to know about Menou finding money Touya lost, promise to protect him and a little tease (she takes part of the ice stuff on Touya's face and does what is in the spoiler)....(guessing Menou likes younger guys).
Another interesting thing is Tamaru was already jealous that Menou did that to Touya and it can be seen here=>
Too bad Menou did not kiss Touya as this part made it clear it was so....close! Damn!
DeathfireD, noteDhero and Soulelle....you have some work to do for me I prepared all these pics for you to analyze...I will number them to make things easy....please help me understand these. Thank you in advance.(Oh great there are 15 of them O_O)
More interesting was that Frank apparently played the piano with Rina/Eiji performing here=>
This is not fair at all....why not her!=>
Overall most shocking episode and most devastating....this nothing compared to Yayoi/Touya scandal...this was far more serious to me.
francismeunierDec 19, 2009 4:41 AM

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Dec 20, 2009 8:24 AM
#2

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Uhm, how the hell will they end this in one ep?

I felt that Kanzaki kept acting out of character with Rina even with her realization of the company collapsing and dropping her "fake image" counted.

Yuki was.. like Yuki.

What was interesting for me was the (probably final) discussion between Yayoi and Touya. I wonder if what Yayoi said about her feelings was the truth or the opposite of that.
Dec 20, 2009 9:02 AM
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Kvakond said:
What was interesting for me was the (probably final) discussion between Yayoi and Touya. I wonder if what Yayoi said about her feelings was the truth or the opposite of that.
Regardless of that, I would think Touya's reaction to Yayoi's speech was for once let's say clean and ok.

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Dec 20, 2009 9:26 AM
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Developments were just great as a tension builder and there are still so many questions unanswered (and there'll probably be a lot left unanswered after the last episode) that I really need to watch the 26th ep now.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
Dec 20, 2009 10:19 AM
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Kvakond said:
Uhm, how the hell will they end this in one ep?

I felt that Kanzaki kept acting out of character with Rina even with her realization of the company collapsing and dropping her "fake image" counted.


This.

It was all so exasperatingly superficial that I just don't buy it from a character stand-point. Unfortunately, this is what I feared: they spent so much time building up certain plot points, and exaggerated a lot of feelings/reaction, that the actual payoff just doesn't satisfy.

Also, note that they said Rina was poisoned, but not enough that her voice is harmed. It's just psychological. That's another big cop out, but not as bad as what I imagined in the last discussion.

Honestly, I'm not looking forward to the next episode, since it seems like it's going to be a total let down, and not really do a lot of the mystery any justice.
Dec 20, 2009 11:34 AM
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So wut? You like WA to be a Sherlock Holmes' detective story with a bunch of mystery? Need me to remind you that this is a visual novel-based romance anime that focuses on the main pimp character Touya and his adventures with his Goddesses? What do you expect anyway? My take about your constant disappointing in the anime(s) that you've seen is due to your overestimation that everything should be around Milkshake Pear's level. If that's the case, then cordial apologies to you but most anime are aimed to entertain common people, not scholars or litterature obssessed individuals; I do admit that stuffs from Poe, Milkshake Pear, Boire du Lait, Rambo or MP Love Crab,... can be fun to read, at least for me, but show that to common populace and 8, or even 9 outta 10 will go "huh?" when they read 'em. Anime is the same, this show aimed to entertain ronery otaku(s) and romance-drama loving people so who the hell bothers with plot construction, overuse of exaggeration or actual payoff? Anyway, just my 300 yen blabbering, feel free to overestimate stuffs and get disappointed all the time because that entertains me to watch while eating my popcorn too ;)



If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!!

Dec 20, 2009 11:41 AM
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I don't think I overestimate that much. For the most part, I always know what to expect in a show, and if I decide to watch it, it's because there is something that I find especially intriguing. Which is why I dropped Fairy Tale and didn't pick up Haruka's Secret II, Railgun, Asura Cryin II, Shin Koihime Musou, etc. In the case of White Album, though, it has to do with the fact that the direction outpaces every other aspect of the show, and made me feel like it was heading somewhere more definite, and less cliche. The fact that the show is set up more like a mystery than other VN adaptations fed into that. It looks like I'm wrong, but there's still an episode left.
Dec 20, 2009 12:04 PM
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noteDhero said:
It was all so exasperatingly superficial that I just don't buy it from a character stand-point. Unfortunately, this is what I feared: they spent so much time building up certain plot points, and exaggerated a lot of feelings/reaction, that the actual payoff just doesn't satisfy.

Also, note that they said Rina was poisoned, but not enough that her voice is harmed. It's just psychological. That's another big cop out, but not as bad as what I imagined in the last discussion.

Honestly, I'm not looking forward to the next episode, since it seems like it's going to be a total let down, and not really do a lot of the mystery any justice.


You're being unnecessarily critical. I for one am loving all the little subtleties this series offers and believe that this, as well as all the underlying interpersonal interactions, give this anime staying power. In other words, it's good drama.

But I digress. In no way do I feel that Kanzaki was acting unnaturally. The series has been very clear for several episodes now that Kanzaki had no idea what she was doing when she and Misumi were extorting money out of Eiji. She was simply fueled with a desire to take over Ogata Productions, and Misumi, who clearly realized that M3 was no longer viable and did not want to stay on the sinking ship, simply used her to meet his own ends. Like she admitted to Rina in this episode, it wasn't until Menou uncovered her wrongdoings for all to see and raising several scandals that Kanzaki realized what she had been doing was wrong all along.

Regarding how Kanzaki and Rina are suddenly so close together, I don't feel that's unnatural either. Kanzaki is clearly aware of Rina's astuteness and talent, and as she gradually realized Misumi was not so loyal after all, who would be a better confidant than Rina, who is sharp, understanding, and the sister of the CEO of the company she tried to take over but failed, who had sold his own sister out in his own delusions? Even if Kanzaki thought Rina harbored antagonistic feelings towards her, she had no one else to turn to: her two daughters despise her, her most trusted employee betrayed her, and her company's dying. As Kanzaki mentioned, Rina was the only person she had confided in her relationship to Menou, highlighting how important Rina now is to her. It can even be said the two have developed a mother-daughter relationship, which makes all the more sense when we also consider that Rina never had a mother figure in her life.

As for the poisoned tea, how is it a cop-out? Rina's manager clearly did not like Rina very much, as he probably sees her as the cause of Menou's downfall (and from previous episodes we can tell he's quite interested in Menou). He put some caustic substance in her tea not to kill her, as several of you seem to believe, but to destroy her voice, the one thing that sets Rina apart from Menou, which, effectively for a singer like Rina, is like taking away everything she has. And for all intents and purposes, he almost succeeded. Had Hiraki not coincidentally been sneaking around the corridor and help come quickly, Rina clearly would have lost her voice. But even so, Rina's voice and psyche was so affected that, despite her determination, she was no longer able to attend the Venus Festival she had dreamed of attending throughout her idol career. The normal reaction, I think, should be one of pity for Rina, and not a "LOLWUT CRAPPY PLOT" reaction.

In any case, it's quite incredible that we are still learning things about each character when we have only one episode left, but as many of you pointed out this inability to truly grasp each character, this curiosity, is one of the main driving forces of this show. I'm not sure either how they're going to wrap everything up, but unlike noteDhero I can't wait to see, whether it will be a let-down or not.
Dec 20, 2009 1:05 PM
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Hmm. I'd urge you to look back at most of my previous comments about the show where I call this an entertaining trainwreck (that is meant to be so), well-directed, and containing a great sense of atomosphere. I too, loved the little subtleties, misdirections, and creation of tension that went throughout the show. It just hasn't paid off, and I doubt that it will next week.

No. The show hasn't been clear about Kanzaki's ignorance until this episode where she says flatly, "I had no idea." Last week hinted at the fact that she may not have known the severity of what was going on, but when you have a character that, up until then, spent the entirety of the show saying, "This is going to be the final nail in Eiji's coffin, this will ruin him" and resorting to such desperate measures as extortion to undermine Ogata productions, it just doesn't add up. It's convenient and superficial that she only see the error of her ways now that she is exposed by Menou.

When did we see her gradually realize that Misumi wasn't loyal? Never. She brought it up this episode. That was a writing/direction choice to retroactively give some depth to her absolute change in character. If she felt so terrible and remorseful as a mother, why is it that she chooses to turn to Rina, someone she absolutely screwed over in every way instead of her childern? Especially Mana. For the most part, I understand Rina's reasons for talking to Kanzaki. She feels disappointed in Touya and Kanzaki is her boss. She chose to go to M&M, and is trying to prove herself within the company. It was totally out of nowhere that the two were having frank conversations about life over tea last week. It was there entirely to fill the audience in on plot points that hadn't been introduced. That's weak and utterly transparent storytelling. Where did this mother-daughter relationship develop? Out of thin air.

It's a cop-out because just like all of the other near death experiences, they have to position a character a certain way for dramatic effect, but don't want to do anything that can't be reversed and would actually affect the outcome of the show in a significant/meaniful way, so she gets poisoned with detergent, but not enough to hurt her voice. Just like how Misaki is stabbed with a prop knife and Akira is hit by a truck only to wake up with a band aid the next day. I can't feel pity for Rina when the show has a penchant for downplaying more serious dramatic turns.

I think there is a bit of a difference between still learning new things about a character because they are constantly facing different situations and having to deal with them, thereby growing; and witnessing characters act and react differently because of a lack of information, or to suit the plot. A lot of it was absolutely fine for most of the show, because we hadn't had the whole picture. Now that we have the bulk of it, though, there are lots of things that happened only for convenience in telling the story or having cheap melodramatic turns.

Why can't someone die!

Oh, and Bitch, I'm surprised you didn't have anything to say about Menou or Yayoi's actions this week.
noteDheroDec 20, 2009 1:11 PM
Dec 20, 2009 1:13 PM

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francismeunier said:
I really want to be in 2D just to do something fatal to him!
Dude, take a chill pill ;D Even in 2D it's not going to work, you're looking for 3D.

Anyways, this was a nice cap.
francismeunier said:


I'm really fearing the end of this show now. It better not be a lame excuse for an all is happy, all is good finale. What possibly could top this whole trainwreck in surprises?
Dec 20, 2009 1:53 PM

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noteDhero said:
Oh, and Bitch, I'm surprised you didn't have anything to say about Menou or Yayoi's actions this week.
Maybe you were the one that made him forget to say it? LOL


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
Dec 20, 2009 2:02 PM

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Lol, maybe. And I thought Bitch is a girl. I just checked the profile though, and it's ambiguous.
Dec 20, 2009 2:08 PM

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noteDhero said:
Lol, maybe. And I thought Bitch is a girl. I just checked the profile though, and it's ambiguous.
Must have been the melons that gave him away
Dec 20, 2009 2:46 PM

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Seems like its going to be a Yuki/Rina or Not-clear ending.
I think... next ep Rina will be able to sing and we will get Rina END Yah!

BitchMaster said:
So wut? You like WA to be a Sherlock Holmes' detective story with a bunch of mystery? Need me to remind you that this is a visual novel-based romance anime that focuses on the main pimp character Touya and his adventures with his Goddesses? What do you expect anyway? My take about your constant disappointing in the anime(s) that you've seen is due to your overestimation that everything should be around Milkshake Pear's level. If that's the case, then cordial apologies to you but most anime are aimed to entertain common people, not scholars or litterature obssessed individuals; I do admit that stuffs from Poe, Milkshake Pear, Boire du Lait, Rambo or MP Love Crab,... can be fun to read, at least for me, but show that to common populace and 8, or even 9 outta 10 will go "huh?" when they read 'em. Anime is the same, this show aimed to entertain ronery otaku(s) and romance-drama loving people so who the hell bothers with plot construction, overuse of exaggeration or actual payoff? Anyway, just my 300 yen blabbering, feel free to overestimate stuffs and get disappointed all the time because that entertains me to watch while eating my popcorn too ;)
agree with this^

I love white album, this is far better for me than Kimi todeke, railgun, blacksmith or some other mindless craps this season~ and by miles.

noteDhero said:
Why can't someone die.
Touya's dad did~

francismeunier said:
10.
Oh... they did it in the shower!! That is...hot....
Dec 20, 2009 3:08 PM
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noteDhero said:
Hmm. I'd urge you to look back at most of my previous comments about the show where I call this an entertaining trainwreck (that is meant to be so), well-directed, and containing a great sense of atomosphere. I too, loved the little subtleties, misdirections, and creation of tension that went throughout the show. It just hasn't paid off, and I doubt that it will next week.


I mean this in the least antagonistic way possible, but I'll have to disagree about the "paying off" part. On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoyed how much more I learned about each of the characters and their motives with each episode. Even now, at the brink of the series' end, it's great that this trend is still happening.

noteDhero said:
No. The show hasn't been clear about Kanzaki's ignorance until this episode where she says flatly, "I had no idea." Last week hinted at the fact that she may not have known the severity of what was going on, but when you have a character that, up until then, spent the entirety of the show saying, "This is going to be the final nail in Eiji's coffin, this will ruin him" and resorting to such desperate measures as extortion to undermine Ogata productions, it just doesn't add up. It's convenient and superficial that she only see the error of her ways now that she is exposed by Menou.


Actually, if you take some time to think back on the events of this season, my argument isn't hard to see. Right from the scene in episode 14, where Kanzaki repeatedly beats Menou's head in rage, it is Misumi who calms Kanzaki down. It is Misumi who effectively tells Kanzaki how to proceed, how to "fulfill" her desire to take over Eiji's company (which we did not know at the time, but now we do!), and of course, Kanzaki, blinded by her ambitions, takes the bait. Already, we see hints of who really controls M3. Then, right after episode 20, when Eiji finally decides to snap out of it, Misumi specifically tells Eiji and Frankie to contact him directly, that Kanzaki should be kept out of it, and we never see him again. We might not have realized it at the time, but if you think back the pieces all fall into place very, very well. But before I conclude this point, let's bring in your next quote.

noteDhero said:
When did we see her gradually realize that Misumi wasn't loyal? Never. She brought it up this episode. That was a writing/direction choice to retroactively give some depth to her absolute change in character. If she felt so terrible and remorseful as a mother, why is it that she chooses to turn to Rina, someone she absolutely screwed over in every way instead of her childern? Especially Mana. For the most part, I understand Rina's reasons for talking to Kanzaki. She feels disappointed in Touya and Kanzaki is her boss. She chose to go to M&M, and is trying to prove herself within the company. It was totally out of nowhere that the two were having frank conversations about life over tea last week. It was there entirely to fill the audience in on plot points that hadn't been introduced. That's weak and utterly transparent storytelling. Where did this mother-daughter relationship develop? Out of thin air.


I never said that Kanzaki gradually knew Misumi was disloyal. I said that she never even suspected it until Misumi disappeared under her nose during her first talk with Rina, and she never really realized what he was really doing until this episode, after the police investigated. While her "sudden" change in character may have seemed abrupt, it is not at all unrealistic. People can suddenly change based on new information. To use a rather bad and unrelated but effective example, one would definitely change how he treats his own girlfriend once he finds out she's been cheating on him. Furthermore, Kanzaki hasn't changed per se: she is still ambitious; she will start over, but this time, to sound cheesy, "do it right". And I do not deny that Kanzaki's conversations with Rina are convenient ways to reveal the plot to the audience, but if it isn't unrealistic, isn't that a good thing? How else will they reveal both Rina's and especially Kanzaki's past, if not through this method? As for why she turns to Rina, I believe I was clear when I said that she had no one else to turn to. At all. And let's remember it was Rina who shared her childhood with Kanzaki first. And, finally, I don't think it's unrealistic to talk to someone about sensitive things about your past if you feel they'll understand. Rina and Kanzaki probably both realized this shortly into their coffee break. It just wasn't until then that they gave each other the chance to develop their relationship. So, while it was spontaneous, it was not unrealistic.

noteDhero said:
It's a cop-out because just like all of the other near death experiences, they have to position a character a certain way for dramatic effect, but don't want to do anything that can't be reversed and would actually affect the outcome of the show in a significant/meaniful way, so she gets poisoned with detergent, but not enough to hurt her voice. Just like how Misaki is stabbed with a prop knife and Akira is hit by a truck only to wake up with a band aid the next day. I can't feel pity for Rina when the show has a penchant for downplaying more serious dramatic turns.


I do not deny that the series gave us a rather blatant cop-out last episode, with Akira surviving a head-on collision with a truck, but let's lay out the cards here. Rina has had her voice temporarily disabled, but disabled nonetheless. It's not permanent, but it was enough that she's unable to attend the Venus Festival, which the series has been building up to since episode 16. If that doesn't fit your definition of "affecting the outcome of the show in a significant way" I don't know what does. There is, of course, the possibility that she'll somehow recover her voice before Venus ends and rush over to perform or something, but until that happens (and if it does happen I will rage), let's not shoot it down just yet.

noteDhero said:
I think there is a bit of a difference between still learning new things about a character because they are constantly facing different situations and having to deal with them, thereby growing; and witnessing characters act and react differently because of a lack of information, or to suit the plot. A lot of it was absolutely fine for most of the show, because we hadn't had the whole picture. Now that we have the bulk of it, though, there are lots of things that happened only for convenience in telling the story or having cheap melodramatic turns.

Why can't someone die!


So you're saying you'd rather not find out? The plot has to be revealed somehow, and in my book, it doesn't justify why you've shot down every single one of the recent episodes. The biggest problem you have with this aspect seems to be the whole Kanzaki-Rina conversations thing, which if you really look at it isn't all that unrealistic. Again, there's practically nobody else left in M3, no other idol but Rina, and no other employee for Kanzaki to turn to. As for the cheap melodramatic turns thing, what's wrong with including drama in a drama show? Must everything of dramatic value that happens have to somehow connect to how the plot ends for it to be appropriate? No offence, but it just seems to me that, in order for all the drama to "pay off" for you, someone has to die, and if that's what paying off is to you, then well, each to his own.
jnr213Dec 20, 2009 3:30 PM
Dec 20, 2009 3:23 PM

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noteDhero said:
Oh, and Bitch, I'm surprised you didn't have anything to say about Menou or Yayoi's actions this week.


Well, don't you find it annoying if someone keeps shouting their love for a certain character every single ep? I know one or maybe several in this thread who love to do this, but I think saying it once or twice and making people know which ones you love is amply enough...Yayoi is in love with him as expected and Menou still shines as strong as ever, what else to say?



If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!!

Dec 20, 2009 3:29 PM

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I figured you'd have something to say about what they did/said to Touya. I especially Menou in the Touya flashback.

But yes, I do find it annoying, but you in these threads are an exception.
Dec 20, 2009 9:29 PM

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The worse thing that could happen to an idol is losing her voice o-o


Dec 20, 2009 9:59 PM

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vinesage said:
francismeunier said:
10.
Oh... they did it in the shower!! That is...hot....

^
Dec 21, 2009 2:40 AM

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blahrgness said:
vinesage said:
francismeunier said:
10.
Oh... they did it in the shower!! That is...hot....

^
Really? They did? I though they might have did it in the bed but one confirmed! 14 to go D: that might be long but all help is appreciated to understand. One thing that is strange is that Haruka does not have any feelings towards her deflowering other than being more confortable with guys maybe. The shower would be ideal as it washes off the blood from the intercourse but Haruka still has no recollection of feelings from this part. It looked like it was just do it so I can be a woman thing.

On the previous conversations....Kanzaki realized all only when Mana acted up in her room and Menou did her exposure thing with Misaki helping to spread it....am I right? I still would like to know her past with Eiji. I call for a 13 episodes of a third season! It would help a lot and BD are out of this so I will see if details and changes help out.

The deaths things.....it was illogical and I stand with noteDhero about them...should have been more dramatic somehow. Rina is still making me sad unless she recovers fast. I do agree that Kanzaki was manipulated a lot by others. She should form something with Rina that Eiji somehow did....Rina I am sure would be great with Mana to help her out.
desolato said:
francismeunier said:
I really want to be in 2D just to do something fatal to him!
Dude, take a chill pill ;D Even in 2D it's not going to work, you're looking for 3D.

Anyways, this was a nice cap.
francismeunier said:


I'm really fearing the end of this show now. It better not be a lame excuse for an all is happy, all is good finale. What possibly could top this whole trainwreck in surprises?

Oh desolato thanks for the chill pill. I should learn to calm down sometimes but that guy sure does not deserve anything like prison only. He hurt something of Rina that she will never forget. I don't think you would just slap him if you were in this anime as 2D....desolato I think you would kick his balls out with curse words towards him!

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Dec 21, 2009 4:28 AM

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noteDhero said:
I figured you'd have something to say about what they did/said to Touya. I especially Menou in the Touya flashback.

But yes, I do find it annoying, but you in these threads are an exception.
BitchMaster, you just got a licensed, Congratulation!!!

Well I am not going to discuss in this episode I think I have enough, I will just wait for the final episode.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
Dec 21, 2009 6:25 AM

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Siva said:
noteDhero said:
I figured you'd have something to say about what they did/said to Touya. I especially Menou in the Touya flashback.

But yes, I do find it annoying, but you in these threads are an exception.
BitchMaster, you just got a licensed, Congratulation!!!

Well I am not going to discuss in this episode I think I have enough, I will just wait for the final episode.

But why Siva? D: Your discussion are always nice. I like them.

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Dec 21, 2009 7:11 AM

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Well, there is nothing left to discuss in this episode because of most of the contents have already been discussed in the past episodes. And as Kvakond mentioned above, I can't really see how they are going to finish this in just one episode left and they are better not pull another season(just like Koihime did) or I will hate this show forever.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
Dec 21, 2009 8:03 AM

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Somehow, I totally missed this post.
jnr213 said:


I mean this in the least antagonistic way possible, but I'll have to disagree about the "paying off" part. On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoyed how much more I learned about each of the characters and their motives with each episode. Even now, at the brink of the series' end, it's great that this trend is still happening.

Well, that's fine if everything has paid off for you, but for me, and a couple of other people, it hasn't. I disagree though that it's good to be finding out a lot of character's motivations at the end of the show. It's fine for characters like Menou, Daddy Longlegs, and a lesser extent Touya, but it's not all that good for Kanzaki, Eiji, Haruka, and to an extent, Touya. There is a balance between characterization, character development, and plot devlelopment that hasn't been met. That major information gets dumped at the end because the writers didn't think to incorporate it in a natural way during the course of 23 episodes is very faulty to me, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Actually, if you take some time to think back on the events of this season, my argument isn't hard to see. Right from the scene in episode 14, where Kanzaki repeatedly beats Menou's head in rage, it is Misumi who calms Kanzaki down. It is Misumi who effectively tells Kanzaki how to proceed, how to "fulfill" her desire to take over Eiji's company (which we did not know at the time, but now we do!), and of course, Kanzaki, blinded by her ambitions, takes the bait. Already, we see hints of who really controls M3. Then, right after episode 20, when Eiji finally decides to snap out of it, Misumi specifically tells Eiji and Frankie to contact him directly, that Kanzaki should be kept out of it, and we never see him again. We might not have realized it at the time, but if you think back the pieces all fall into place very, very well. But before I conclude this point, let's bring in your next quote.


Your example from episode 14 doesn't really amount to anything because when is it ever a good idea to hit your merchandise? That's the only thing we knew from that instance as it happened. Where is that woman? Where was that struggle to hold onto a failing company as everything went under? We never saw it. We saw her being a pissy bitch who knew she was extorting Eiji for money, and now we have a clueless mom who was just trying to scrape by. Where is the inbetween? Nowhere. Instead, we have her telling Rina (thereby, the audience) that she never knew what Misumi was doing, even though that's a bit of a lie considering the conversation we saw her have with Misumi after showing Eiji the painting. Now your second example is actually very concrete. Honestly, I just thought that was some random guy, since he hasn't shown up in the show often enough to even remember his name. Maybe that's my fault as a viewer for not noticing, but I do think some blame goes to the way that they have scripted everything out, overwhelming the viewer with a lot of information and little time to process.

I never said that Kanzaki gradually knew Misumi was disloyal. I said that she never even suspected it until Misumi disappeared under her nose during her first talk with Rina, and she never really realized what he was really doing until this episode, after the police investigated. While her "sudden" change in character may have seemed abrupt, it is not at all unrealistic. People can suddenly change based on new information. To use a rather bad and unrelated but effective example, one would definitely change how he treats his own girlfriend once he finds out she's been cheating on him. Furthermore, Kanzaki hasn't changed per se: she is still ambitious; she will start over, but this time, to sound cheesy, "do it right". And I do not deny that Kanzaki's conversations with Rina are convenient ways to reveal the plot to the audience, but if it isn't unrealistic, isn't that a good thing? How else will they reveal both Rina's and especially Kanzaki's past, if not through this method? As for why she turns to Rina, I believe I was clear when I said that she had no one else to turn to. At all. And let's remember it was Rina who shared her childhood with Kanzaki first. And, finally, I don't think it's unrealistic to talk to someone about sensitive things about your past if you feel they'll understand. Rina and Kanzaki probably both realized this shortly into their coffee break. It just wasn't until then that they gave each other the chance to develop their relationship. So, while it was spontaneous, it was not unrealistic.


Kanzaki's change in character is ridiculous to me because she seems to be portrayed as some poor woman who got conned, when actually she was a scheming bitch who beat up one child, forced her into the limelight, and totally ignored the other. Her conversations with Rina don't have anywhere near the amount of bitterness and regret that I think is wholly apart of her character and present in her scene with Menou. That's the problem I have. If it were a realistic change in her character, it should be present throughout, but the bitter bitch is back later in the episode with Menou. That's why I call her stuff with Rina out of character: they totally change her demeanor for no reason, just to have this conversation with Rina, and I have a problem with it because they don't really do a good job of putting Kanzaki in a place to talk to Rina. Even if she is the only person she can talk to (and I disagree because there is always Touya, and it would have made more sense if he were there too), that her guard was completely down from the very beginning is irksome. I point again to her conversation with Menou. That wall was firmly in place despite it being her daughter who she wronged terribly during the course of the show. Her epiphany did not translate to the rest of her relationships.

I do not deny that the series gave us a rather blatant cop-out last episode, with Akira surviving a head-on collision with a truck, but let's lay out the cards here. Rina has had her voice temporarily disabled, but disabled nonetheless. It's not permanent, but it was enough that she's unable to attend the Venus Festival, which the series has been building up to since episode 16. If that doesn't fit your definition of "affecting the outcome of the show in a significant way" I don't know what does. There is, of course, the possibility that she'll somehow recover her voice before Venus ends and rush over to perform or something, but until that happens (and if it does happen I will rage), let's not shoot it down just yet.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun. They've already put it out there that maybe she'll feel better once she sees the person who poisoned her gets caught. And we know that it's a psychological issue instead of a physical one. We'll see.

So you're saying you'd rather not find out? The plot has to be revealed somehow, and in my book, it doesn't justify why you've shot down every single one of the recent episodes. The biggest problem you have with this aspect seems to be the whole Kanzaki-Rina conversations thing, which if you really look at it isn't all that unrealistic. Again, there's practically nobody else left in M3, no other idol but Rina, and no other employee for Kanzaki to turn to. As for the cheap melodramatic turns thing, what's wrong with including drama in a drama show? Must everything of dramatic value that happens have to somehow connect to how the plot ends for it to be appropriate? No offence, but it just seems to me that, in order for all the drama to "pay off" for you, someone has to die, and if that's what paying off is to you, then well, each to his own.


This goes to the balance that I was talking about previously. At some point, in a show this long, characters need to start learning from their mistakes and grow. Yuki is still crying and dependent on everyone around her. Touya is still a clueless fool. They are the center of the show. Around them, we have Misaki who seems to have balls sometimes, but then likes to play the damsel card. She's inconsistent at best. Yayoi has been totally inconsistent, and the embodiment of a plot device. The same can be said for Menou. After being hit by a truck, it seems like Akira has forgiven Touya totally and whatever resentment with him seems to have totally evaporated. Eiji may have only just now turned the corner by turning himself in. Mana's been totally absent. Haruka is an afterthought. To top that all off, recently Touya has banged almost every woman on the show in the most outrageous circumstances.

There's no problem with having drama in a drama, but it absolutely does need to be connected to the characters and plot in a believable manner, otherwise it's just a plot device and very shallow. And that's what has happend. Most of the real drama (Menou lipsynching, Eiji's craziness, the Rina-Touya-Yuki triangle, Touya's past) have played second fiddle to inane plot devices (Touya and virtually every other girl, Kanzaki taking over M&M, Akira getting hit by a truck, Misaki getting stabbed, Rina getting poisoned [maybe], Tamaru & Hiiragi) with there being such an orgy of plot points that nothing gets explained naturally. Instead, we're finding out in the penultimate episode crucial information that isn't as weighty as it was built up to be.

I want someone (namely Touya) to die, because if the show seemed like anything besides a fapfest for straight guys, it was a tragedy. Touya is tragic hero in every sense of the word with a tragic flaw: indecisiveness. Death has been flying around, taunting the audience for almost the entire length of the show. It would be yet another of those disappointingly shallow things to add to my list if no one died. If the show were lighter in tone, I wouldn't be asking for someone to die. That's not how this show was presented though.
Dec 22, 2009 12:04 AM

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4613


Poor Rina..

Dec 22, 2009 3:24 PM

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Jan 2009
4908
Now then, this'll be interesting, I wonder if I can get through the whole episode, while writing here, without pausing once ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶

Well I'll be, there was some strange stuff in the drink. I knew it ಠ_ಠ
What's Yayoi up to? Did I miss something? ٩(๏_๏)۶
WOAH! What an interesting turn of events! So Yayoi hates Touya, and Touya doesn't love anyone at all? This is actually turning out for the better! ⊂( ゚ヮ゚)⊃
Akira's already recovered, eh? ┐(-。ー')┌
Funny, now they're in the show starting to speculate about things that were speculated about during the last few episodes ヽ(´Д`ヽ)
Rina actually looks rather pitiful in that state ಠ_ಠ
And I'm starting to like Menou more and more, all the time ◕ ◡ ◕ And apparantly, she's the one who started Touya's savior-goddess-complex, eh? ( ´・‿-)~
Oh oh OH I'm actually getting all pumped up for the ending now ⊂( ゚ヮ゚)⊃ This might end in something that's not complete chaos~ ( ̄ー ̄) I'm actually raising my rating of this to 8 : o
Anyway, what's the little girl doing everywhere pretty much at random occations? She's puzzeling, to say the least ¯\(°_o)/¯

And I did it! I didn't pause a single time, Oh am I awesome or what? ( ¯‿¯)
Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile.
Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(゚Д゚щ) Nope™, probably not.
Dec 22, 2009 3:31 PM

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385
Its said 2 episodes are going to be aired on the 24th (this week), anyone knows if that really true? cause there are only 26 ep and we seen the 25th already...


Oosran said:
Did I miss something?
Now i wonder why...
Dec 23, 2009 12:49 AM

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3647
vinesage said:
Its said 2 episodes are going to be aired on the 24th (this week), anyone knows if that really true? cause there are only 26 ep and we seen the 25th already...


Oosran said:
Did I miss something?
Now i wonder why...

Really? Great! Then my wishes for a 1 hour last episode might come true? Please tell that is true vinesage!

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Dec 23, 2009 4:15 AM

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3471
Well that would be interesting to see. Since 1 ep is not going to be enough to end everything here.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
Dec 24, 2009 5:44 PM

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5116
wow its almost over; touya finally meets his first goddess, rina unfortunately can't sing, and glad to see the photo guy did the right thing
the only way to stop a gamer from playing is either: beat them, or wait until they get bored (though 2% percent suffer seizures
Dec 25, 2009 6:35 AM

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385
just checked the schedule, its going to be only 1 ep after all.
Dec 25, 2009 10:08 PM

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2669
I'm not even sure what to say. This episode, like the last few, have felt like they tossed everything at us because they realized they only had a few eps left and they might not get the green light to make a season 3 :S. After watching this episode though I did get the feeling that they might pull a season 3 or an OVA but it seems very doubtful. I honestly cant see this ending good quality wise.

This episode felt like they where trying to clarify things we may not have been sure about before like how Menou knowns Touya, Yayoi feelings for Touya, Touya's resolve and realization that he's a goddesses' curse, and where the painting came from. This happened all too fast and should have been spanned out across several episodes.

I think one of the only interesting things I got from this episode was that when child Touya and Menou where in the family restaurant eating ice cream, what looked like a young Tamaru was in the background with a pissed off look on his face :D. I guess this would explain what his dad was saying before when he mentions "Are you still in love with that singer? You know arranged and political marriages are outdated." and Tamaru goes "NO it's not her!". This leads me to believe that Tamaru's first crush was Menou. Whether or not he's been holding a grudge on Touya remains to be seen though.

I LOLed when the chubby stalker guy was speaking as a police officer. I'm not sure if he really is one or not but it was still funny as hell....at least for me anyway.

The ending is anyones guess. I can only see it ending half assed and very rushed though but who knows.
Dec 26, 2009 4:08 AM

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3647
DeathfireD said:
Yayoi feelings for Touya, Touya's resolve and realization that he's a goddesses' curse, and where the painting came from. This happened all too fast and should have been spanned out across several episodes.

The funny thing is that Yayoi mentions people meeting her disappear....they suicide themselves?
DeathfireD said:
I think one of the only interesting things I got from this episode was that when child Touya and Menou where in the family restaurant eating ice cream, what looked like a young Tamaru was in the background with a pissed off look on his face :D. I guess this would explain what his dad was saying before when he mentions "Are you still in love with that singer? You know arranged and political marriages are outdated." and Tamaru goes "NO it's not her!". This leads me to believe that Tamaru's first crush was Menou. Whether or not he's been holding a grudge on Touya remains to be seen though.

Exactly what I though too about Tamaru part. He does hold a grudge to Touya....look carefully at how his face is in one of my pics. He looks jealous.
DeathfireD said:
I LOLed when the chubby stalker guy was speaking as a police officer. I'm not sure if he really is one or not but it was still funny as hell....at least for me anyway.

The ending is anyones guess. I can only see it ending half assed and very rushed though but who knows.
I lol too, you are not the only one. It was funny.

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Jan 26, 2010 12:30 PM

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333
finally got to know the song name is Koiiro Sora! XD
Sep 11, 2012 7:22 PM

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Dec 22, 2012 10:43 PM

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519
I found it odd that the fat guy turned in the person that poisoned Rina. I do agree that it's weird for the to just dump the information on most of the mysteries at the last few episodes.
Jan 11, 2013 5:07 AM
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Nov 2011
932
I think initially Touya did love Yuki. Yaoyoi-san got in the way, blocked him from seeing Yuki. Remember the one episode where Toya said, he'd only seen her once the previous year? Only once? Seriously? How can you really love that?

I don't think he's anything but Friendzoned Haruka, and I think he was confused by MIzaki-san because she was kind to him or because he thought she owed him. Who knows.

The only person in all this I'm not sure about at all is Rina. I don't know how touya feels for her, if he ever did. Rina did more to keep the two of them (him and Yuki) apart IMO than Yaoyai-san. I'd not be surprised if this ends up with Touya alone, or still working for Rina, but no relationship at this point.
Be thankful for those you have near who are dear
For time is not always kind to those who would be on your mind
Seize the day, some exclaim, but that which is past, no more shall have its day.
Feb 23, 2013 12:42 AM

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10430
Kvakond said:
Uhm, how the hell will they end this in one ep?

Kill everyone.
Apr 12, 2014 7:16 PM

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May 2012
25828
I feel sorry for Rina :/ But I couldn't care less about the rest... Either way let's see what the last episode has to offer from this shitty anime.
Apr 22, 2015 3:39 PM

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Feb 2013
1926
So Rina lost her voice. Damn, that sucks. I hope she can still participate at Venus. She's probably the best person in the entire series besides Akari.

That confrontation between Touya and Yayoi was I don't know. Yayoi and Touya didn't love each other. So Touya was simply using her for sex only. I wonder if Yayoi meant it when she said that she didn't love him. Why else would she even get with him?

Menou met Touya much long ago. She's definitely much older. At least like 4 or 5 years.

Looks like Yuki going to see that song she's been working on.

There's only one episode left. How can this possible end? Onto the final episode.
Apr 20, 2019 1:25 AM

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Aug 2017
2359
I wanted some steamy action with Menou. Too bad Touya didn't man up. I have no idea who poisoned the green tea.

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