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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- It's sad to see the Taira clan get all the blame for even the most arrogrant of warrior lords acting like nobles, and Shigemori, the conscience of Heike, has to be the spokesperson to appease him. Biwa sure doesn't like to beat around the bush. Shigemori's young sis Tokuko is a fascinating character, that now with Biwa, has an avenue to talk to. But like the other sisters, the ladies are forced into political marriages from young, because that's tradition. The family's dynamics of suppression are also the standard treatment from a time of this age, and protecting the face of a clan such as the Heike is a matter of pride and contained anger. It's a delicate balance. Shirabyoshi: the term for the dancing servants, and Lady Gio is one such person whom her true nature is a nun. Praising the hetero-colored Biwa, and her eyes that see the future of Tokuko's downfall, there's plenty of reasons to fear both the dark and future. In fact, Gio being out of the kingdom is a plus to keep her life sane. The song definitely brought an eerie feeling to it, though Biwa can be certain that good things will happen. Sadly with Tokuko betrothed the the royal family, Biwa only senses the worse for her through her future sight, but Tokuko proves that it'd be alright. How will Tokuko's downfall look like through the eyes of Biwa on a full scale? |
KANLen09Sep 22, 2021 10:53 AM
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| Man... I love Biwa. She's adorable. Quite straightforward. Doesn't give a single fuck even in front of that old guy, who definitely looks fishy to me. But, I love the fact that she's constantly munching on something while perceiving things that are happening in her surroundings. It's so cute. We got to dive deeper into these characters and their personalities along with all the political stuff that's happening in history. I hate political marriages. Aside from that, Shgemori is a nice guy. He understands Biwa and is a friendly figure to her. Biwa has some great skills. Nice. I just hope the future she sees can change somehow because Tokuko is a nice girl. |
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Biwa is so super adorable. |
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| Biwa is really cute xD. I also like how she speaks her mind and doesn’t care how powerful the person she’s talking to is. Looking forward to the next episode. |
| AISHITERU...REM! |
| I was mad confused with the names hahahh too many names at the same time and connections between characters, gotta read em before next episode. Biwa's story is so tragic, no wonder she hates the concept of the future, but it is nice to know that her outlook changed in this episode. The political issues are interesting to watch, probably because they are pretty much real |
| This episode focused mainly on the side story of the sixth chapter (Gio), though before that it had wrapped up how the incident with Fujiwara no Motofusa had ended (that was the end of the tenth chapter). The original Heike Monogatari didn't spent so much time on how Takako had got the consort of emperor Takakura (in this episode referred to by his personal name Norihito); the whole thing was just mentioned in one line: "another of Kiyomori's daughters became Consort of the Emperor" in chapter five. My point is if the anime progresses at the same pace in the future, 24 episodes won't be enough to cover the whole story. |
IshitatesoSep 22, 2021 11:39 AM
夏草や 兵どもが 夢の跡  |
| Biwa is just way too adorable. It was pretty interesting to see and know more about the characters. The names got me a little bit confusing but for the rest. Another awesome episode. Political marriages are one hell of a hassle but in the era they live. It's pretty normal.. |
   “You yourself have to change first, or nothing will change for you!” ' |
| Is fun to watch but at same time hard to watch for needing 100% of attention to get it. Hotoke Gozen became a nun for the same reason as Lady Gio? |
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| Good episode The story is a little confusing, with introductions to a lot of characters. I wish they would slow down a little bit. Again, what's carrying this show is the voice acting form Aoi Yuuki. She's just phenomenal when voicing little girls. |
| Another amazing episode. Yeah the first half was quite overwhelming, I had to pause and rewind a few times to write down some of the characters etc. I too wish they would slow that down a little, but yea after a bit of rewinding I think that I caught most of the stuff. The 2nd half was just more of the greatness from episode 1. Calm, beautiful sceneries, and touching dialogue between the characters. looking forward to more obviously |
| is it just me or am i too low iq to enjoy it because it seems too complicated to me i dont think i can give this higher than a 6 at the end |
-Elevate- said: is it just me or am i too low iq to enjoy it because it seems too complicated to me i dont think i can give this higher than a 6 at the end You just need to remember the names.. It indeed is big IQ show... haha |
| Thank God, I thought Gio was gonna be assassinated or something, but it was just Hotoke Gozen joining them and becoming a nun. Great episode! Gonna be sad for Tokuko, I hope Biwa's visions are not inevitable. |
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| god damn the show just keep throwing us more names, chill out a little bit i'm just used to Biwa and Shigemori. lol wow did i read it wrong, there are someone married to 9 years old child? wtf this era is wild. Political Marriages, you hate to see it. i hope Biwa can somehow save Tokuko. |
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| I'll be honest, this episode just confused me in multiple ways. Throwing out name after name after name without much in the way of context, alongside character designs that look very similar to each other makes it incredibly hard to keep track of what's actually going or what all this is even aiming to build towards. Or, in other words, besides Biwa, Shigemori, Tokuko and Kiyomori, I've completely lost track of who anyone is or why I should care. It also doesn't help that things seem to jump around a lot, with us seeing Gio dancing and talking to Biwa in one scene and then committing to becoming a nun in more or less the next scene, without any meaningful transition whatsoever. Honestly, it kinda feels like there should have been another episode between this and the first one to space out all these names and connections and better explain things. As it is, this whole thing is becoming incredibly dense very quickly and I hope that doesn't prove a problem further down the line as the show tries to pay off whatever connections and alliances it's setting up here. Disappointing after that fantastic first episode, but there's definitely some promise here if the show can actually make a bit more sense in future episodes. Certainly not giving up on it yet, but my confidence in this has seriously wavered after this confusing episode. |
Atavistic said: I'll be honest, this episode just confused me in multiple ways. Throwing out name after name after name without much in the way of context, alongside character designs that look very similar to each other makes it incredibly hard to keep track of what's actually going or what all this is even aiming to build towards. Or, in other words, besides Biwa, Shigemori, Tokuko and Kiyomori, I've completely lost track of who anyone is or why I should care. It also doesn't help that things seem to jump around a lot, with us seeing Gio dancing and talking to Biwa in one scene and then committing to becoming a nun in more or less the next scene, without any meaningful transition whatsoever. Honestly, it kinda feels like there should have been another episode between this and the first one to space out all these names and connections and better explain things. As it is, this whole thing is becoming incredibly dense very quickly and I hope that doesn't prove a problem further down the line as the show tries to pay off whatever connections and alliances it's setting up here. Disappointing after that fantastic first episode, but there's definitely some promise here if the show can actually make a bit more sense in future episodes. Certainly not giving up on it yet, but my confidence in this has seriously wavered after this confusing episode. The story about how Gio, her sister, her mother and Hotoke Gozen had retired from the word and become nuns was just a side story, you don't need to remember their names anymore, though it is true their story would have had a greater emotional impact if more time had been spent on it. Beside them there were only a few main characters introduced until now: Go-Shirakawa the retired emperor, his son the emperor Takakura (referred to by his personal name Norihito) whose consort Takako will be, the regent of the child emperor Fujiwara no Motofusa (sometimes referred to as Matsudono Motofusa), then there are the members of the Taira (or Heike) family whom I guess I don't need to mention because they were and will be shown a lot of times. The reason the anime doesn't spend much time on introducing the main characters is most likely that the main target audience is japanese and they should know well enough who are these historical figures from high school. |
IshitatesoSep 23, 2021 7:54 AM
| 夏草や 兵どもが 夢の跡 |
Ishitateso said: Atavistic said: I'll be honest, this episode just confused me in multiple ways. Throwing out name after name after name without much in the way of context, alongside character designs that look very similar to each other makes it incredibly hard to keep track of what's actually going or what all this is even aiming to build towards. Or, in other words, besides Biwa, Shigemori, Tokuko and Kiyomori, I've completely lost track of who anyone is or why I should care. It also doesn't help that things seem to jump around a lot, with us seeing Gio dancing and talking to Biwa in one scene and then committing to becoming a nun in more or less the next scene, without any meaningful transition whatsoever. Honestly, it kinda feels like there should have been another episode between this and the first one to space out all these names and connections and better explain things. As it is, this whole thing is becoming incredibly dense very quickly and I hope that doesn't prove a problem further down the line as the show tries to pay off whatever connections and alliances it's setting up here. Disappointing after that fantastic first episode, but there's definitely some promise here if the show can actually make a bit more sense in future episodes. Certainly not giving up on it yet, but my confidence in this has seriously wavered after this confusing episode. The story about how Gio, her sister, her mother and Hotoke Gozen had retired from the word and become nuns was just a side story, you don't need to remember their names anymore, though it is true their story would have had a greater emotional impact if more time had been spent on it. Beside them there were only a few main characters introduced until now: Go-Shirakawa the retired emperor, his son the emperor Takakura (referred to by his personal name Norihito) whose consort Takako will be, the regent of the child emperor Fujiwara no Motofusa (sometimes referred to as Matsudono Motofusa), then there are the members of the Taira (or Heike) family whom I guess I don't need to mention because they were and will be shown a lot of times. The reason the anime doesn't spend much time on introducing the main characters is most likely that the main target audience is japanese and they should know well enough who are these historical figures from high school. Thanks for clarifying again buddy, your comments are the only thing i look forward to after the episodes. :-D |
| A bit more conventional style on the second episode compared to the more artistic tones of the first. However this turns out to be I can say that I won't like it, as it takes me two sits per episode to watch it. The issue with having a protagonist that can see the future is that if she doesn't use her power to try to prevent it, the tragedy will feel forced, on top of fatalistic as both she and the viewer already know what and how will happen and if she does, and succeeds, the show was full of fake tension all along and would be betraying the source material too. I mean the show can still be good with enough political conflicts and good characterization, but seeing how the KyoAni duo took an historical epic and switched the main point of view to an original girl with powers that's not any member of the family, I don't see it happening. At least it doesn't feel nor look as a cgdct show, which could have happened with those two. |
| quite a lot of stuff i didnt get there but again another great ep. last moments were really nice, how it went from "the future can be good too :D" to "ALSO BAD!!!!! REMEMBER THAT THE FUTURE IS BAD YOU DONT LIKE THE FUTURE" im gonna miss tokuko😭 |
| Biwa changed! she definitely fits on Taira family and extremely cares for almost everyone she knows! Her premonitions are really daunting...hmmm hoping there's not too much of tragedy on this...hmmm 5/5. |
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CaptainKenshiro said: The issue with having a protagonist that can see the future is that if she doesn't use her power to try to prevent it, the tragedy will feel forced, on top of fatalistic as both she and the viewer already know what and how will happen and if she does, and succeeds, the show was full of fake tension all along and would be betraying the source material too. You should not think in western terms about how the story should be told, because the main message and the core concept of Heike monogatari is rooted in the buddhist worldview. According to buddhism one of the three marks of existence is impermanence, that is all things are constantly and inevitably changing, beauty, fame, youth, power are all transient and fade away in the end so humans should stop craving those things and let them go. That is of course is not something a human can easily do, they are grasping onto all those things but in the end that is in vain and just gives rise to suffering. You should keep in mind the first four lines of Heike monogatari, those, at begining of the story, tell us that in the end the mighty, that is the protagonists of this story, will inevitably fall, they can’t escape their fate. Maybe some of you wonder what was the point of the side story of Gio, why it was told when it seems to be unrelated to the main storyline, but actually that had the exactly same buddhist message – the four ladies realise that good fortune, youth and beauty are all transient things, those are the source of their suffering so they shave their head and retire from the world to recite the name of Amida and prepare for the afterlife. Just a side note, but both Taira no Kyomori and the retired emperor Go-Shirakawa have done something similar in the past, they had shaved their head (the reason both of them are bald in the anime) and become some kind of layman-monks (nyudo) but both of them are still grasping onto luxury and political power. Biwa’s visions of the future can be thought of as a device to remind the viewer of the ineviable fall and thus give rise to the bittersweet feeling of „mono no aware” which is ingrained into the visuals of the anime as well (that is why it makes a point of showing the passing of the seasons, falling of the leaves and so on). The other role of Biwa is that to help the viewers, who are more used to the way anime tells its stories, to connect to what is happening in the monogatari. Her third role is to represent the biwa playing bards who had passed down the story through the generations and recite to us from the original source material. But her role is definitely not to change how the story will end. _PALS_ said: Thanks for clarifying again buddy, your comments are the only thing i look forward to after the episodes. :-D You are welcome, buddy :). |
IshitatesoSep 23, 2021 11:32 PM
| 夏草や 兵どもが 夢の跡 |
Ishitateso said: CaptainKenshiro said: The issue with having a protagonist that can see the future is that if she doesn't use her power to try to prevent it, the tragedy will feel forced, on top of fatalistic as both she and the viewer already know what and how will happen and if she does, and succeeds, the show was full of fake tension all along and would be betraying the source material too. You should not think in western terms about how the story should be told, because the main message and the core concept of Heike monogatari is rooted in the buddhist worldview. According to buddhism one of the three marks of existence is impermanence, that is all things are constantly and inevitably changing, beauty, fame, youth, power are all transient and fade away in the end so humans should stop craving those things and let them go. That is of course is not something a human can easily do, they are grasping onto all those things but in the end that is in vain and just gives rise to suffering. You should keep in mind the first four lines of Heike monogatari, those, at begining of the story, tell us that in the end the mighty, that is the protagonists of this story, will inevitably fall, they can’t escape their fate. Maybe some of you wonder what was the point of the side story of Gio, why it was told when it seems to be unrelated to the main storyline, but actually that had the exactly same buddhist message – the four ladies realise that good fortune, youth and beauty are all transient things, those are the source of their suffering so they shave their head and retire from the world to recite the name of Amida and prepare for the afterlife. Just a side note, but both Taira no Kyomori and the retired emperor Go-Shirakawa have done something similar in the past, they had shaved their head (the reason both of them are bald in the anime) and become some kind of layman-monks (nyudo) but both of them are still grasping onto luxury and political power. Biwa’s visions of the future can be thought of as a device to remind the viewer of the ineviable fall and thus give rise to the bittersweet feeling of „mono no aware” which is ingrained into the visuals of the anime as well (that is why it makes a point of showing the passing of the seasons, falling of the leaves and so on). The other role of Biwa is that to help the viewer, who are more used to the way anime tells its stories, to connect to what is happening in the monogatari. Her third role is to represent the biwa playing bards who had passed down the story through the generations and recite to us from the original source material. But her role is definitely not to change how the story will end. _PALS_ said: Thanks for clarifying again buddy, your comments are the only thing i look forward to after the episodes. :-D You are welcome, buddy :). Cool philosophy but sorry, to me so far is still a basic story with a second episode filled with side content and characters that added nothing substantial. Thanks for the insight anyway |
HamsSOLO said: davidyodo24 said: wow did i read it wrong, there are someone married to 9 years old child? wtf this era is wild. lol I've rewind that scene so many times to confirm what I just found out. yeah man, i'm also rewind that scene as well |
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| The story is getting a bit more complicated to understand all the characters/clans that take place within the Heike, I had to read the wiki for the original story to kinda understand. I'm glad to see Biwa is willing to take a step forward and look forward to the future, but it must also hurt to see what will happen to Tokuko. |
| desu desu binches |
| In her empty gaze, the fearful, deluded heart of that vivacious girl who, fluttering subtly with the fragile wings of a beautiful butterfly, had always run through the bustling villages that, wandering through the gay and festive stalls of thousands of markets, perhaps she could only leave, behind her slow walk, the faint footsteps that, on the trail of her distant past, were covered with the glowing russet that, snatching her dear father from her, reminded her that someday every flower must fall. .. |
| It's been a bit since I watched the first episode, but this episode just seemed hard to follow for me. I couldn't really tell what's going on half the time. The background music was also so calming I was almost nodding off. Other than that though I really do love the way they draw backgrounds and just how the scenery looks in general. |
| Damn Biwa should just embrace death, but at the same time I guess we all can't be heartless. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| I hope Biwa will be able to meet her mother, though Tokuko is leaving and she knows what will happen to her :S |
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| Two episodes and I already want Taira no Kiyomori to burn in hell. Another interesting episode but the amount of infodump regarding names, introductions and political matters sure felt overwhelming at times. |
| Story is bit confusing with all these plotlines and characters but still interesting. I feel bad for Biwa with her power to see the future (peaceful nun life for Gio but drowning death for Tokuku) without being able to alter that or even tell anyone except Shigemori. |
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| That was beautiful! The contrast between the eagerness for what might come next and what will happen with all these beautiful shot of the passing of season; the melancholy of the woman deciding to let go of something they know by embracing this new life far from the shallowness that have hurt them but all together and delighted, just beautiful. Biwa is so adorable I hope nothing bad happens to her. |
Ishitateso said: Maybe some of you wonder what was the point of the side story of Gio, why it was told when it seems to be unrelated to the main storyline, but actually that had the exactly same buddhist message – the four ladies realise that good fortune, youth and beauty are all transient things, those are the source of their suffering so they shave their head and retire from the world to recite the name of Amida and prepare for the afterlife. Wait, did female monks shave their heads? I thought they were supposed to significantly cut their long hair but not go bald completely. |
Good effort. Goodbye. And good luck to the protagonist I guess.  |
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