Attack on Titan
Leniaczeq said: TertiaryCoot said: While talking with my friend I thought of the newest season of Attack On Titan like this: " So it's not terrible like Berserk 2016/17 but it's sort of like a downgrade overall. The sound mixing, animation, and overall adaption of the story is a downgrade. Like it went from an A+ to maybe B to C or so. " I think the voice acting in this adaptation though it is still very good. I remember reading the manga the first time and all these moments were incredibly exciting. I'm not even a manga elitist in fact the previous ones were all better than the manga by FAR, but this season definitely just hits lower. Also, the music in this season while not bad it just isn't good either. Does anyone remember You See Big Girl. That fucking slaps every time. But the music here just seems eh like they only made one track ( The One in the trailer ) Then keeps using for idk EVERY SCENE WITH ACTION. I love the song, but it's like a Berserk situation. I love Berserks music a fuck ton like Ash Crow and Hai Yo, but man they use the same track over and over making it feel not important or cool anymore. Like Guts would onto the screen and it would be like "HAI YO, DUMDUMDUMDUMDUMDUM" it ruins the music of both seasons. I don't know if the sound director had enough experience. Also, the scene with Sasha reloading is a perfect example of this. There isn't even a sound for the reload just the animation which makes it look real awkward to look at. Also, the Opening is really disappointing as well. It's just bath bombs but with awesome music. While in my profile I say animation isn't everything I must admit what made Attack On Titan one of the best anime of the last decade, Was the animation and music. While I love the story for Attack On Titan isn't as good as other titles I've read. I'm sorry, but you really can't defend the CG here. It is not good. While not the worst we have seen. It is nowhere near good enough. If you are defending it I don't know I think you are encouraging these crunch times, the CG isn't good. I don't think we can say it is good. Look at the scene where Eren is yanking the Warhammer Titan. I'm sorry but no that is REALLY bad CG like really bad. I actually thought it was worse than Berserk for a second. The fact I can even compare Attack On Titan to Berserk 2016 and 2017 is pretty bad to be honest. I don't think CG in any anime should be supported. Even Attack On Titan in previous seasons used CG which looked wonky ass shit. We have seen MAPPA pull off incredible animation. Like seriously some really fucking good shit. But man it's a shame that they did pick up Attack On Titan. While I think MAPPA was a definite mistake, harassing the creators isn't cool. It just doesn't help the team that is trying. Though criticism is definitely required. Maybe one day there will be anime with no CG with enough talented animators. Personally, I would rather wait another year just so some of these scenes can be done proper justice. I know it seems like I am nitpicking which I probably am but I just wanted the season to be better, MAPPA is doing an average or slightly below-average job. That's just my take on it anyway. And while I give the Berserk Adaptation a 10 still it's because the core story is still good enough to pass the oversights. But this... this is just disappointing. Just don't harass the creators I'm sure 90% of us criticizing couldn't even come close to the talent some of these guys have, even though I just criticized them. You're wrong. S2 is A+. S1 is GOAT. S3 is an average adaptation with boring directing, the only consolation is a few good animations from Imai. S4 has the biggest problems with animation but pretending s3 had better directing .. if you think overusing this trailer track is a downside, well s1 did the same but not a problem as long as the music fits. S3 wasn't abusing any track as much as s1 and s4 do, but so what if so many songs didn't fit, the s3 scenes in terms of direction aren't even close to s1 and s2 scenes. RtS is one of the best arcs in AOT, even the best for some, do you really think the anime did it justice? It's sad that every next arc of AOT is getting better but unfortunately, the quality of the adaptation drops with each season ... Well, let's be glad that at least the directing works better in s4 than in s3. Besides, take a look at the facts. S3P2 and S4 have the worst animation but for some reason are the highest rated. Deal with the fact that the story is now the biggest attraction of AOT. S1 became popular because of animation because, well ... back then, no one thought AOT would develop into such a complex series, and all of AOT's popularity was due to animation and that great direction. Btw Araki GOAT anime director. And yes ... CGI is always terrible. I do not defend the flaws of the s4 that deserve criticism, but I also do not pretend that I liked the s3 adaptation. As an AOT fan, it pains me that the best seasons have these problems and the season that was only a prologue has the best animations, direction, storyboards etc ... (yeah, s1) Personally, I found S3 to be pretty good that may be my goopy Golbin gamer brain speaking but I enjoyed it. While S2 is the best season in my opinion I still really liked S3. I can understand the complaint of the poor direction but I find it to be a lot better than S4. S4 feels like there are just massive chunks of dialogue missing. S3P2 at least had some really good fights. The only CG I can remember is the Colossal titan which is a lot better than every fucking titan we see. The Warhammer looks like a goopy mess. If you look at my profile it literally says that story isn't everything lol I can deal with the story being the main focus on a series. But not when it is known for the best animation and the best damn music. The story is good don't get me wrong but like you said AOT is known for the animation being top tier. Also, I find that RTS isn't my favourite arc for some reason. Probably due to the drama surrounding the series and me not being a huge manga reader. Araki is GOAT. |
  Even If We Painstakingly Piece Together Something Lost, It Doesn't Mean Things Will Ever go Back To How They Were - Guts  |
| Man... I'm just glad they took the project when no one else did and they did their very best. I have seen way worse than this. This fanbase is just toxic af. |
Leniaczeq said: Madlaad said: S3 had many glorious scenes. S3 had levi vs beast titan, imai end ebisu sungle handedly saved s3. The last 3 eps were also glorious. What this season is lacking some epic action sequence on which everyone can agree its epic, like how everyone liked levis chase scene or levi vs bt. Well in this season even scouts are cgi no there wont be any scene as epic as that. If you s3 was average i wonder how your experience is with this season. Can you fucking read? I said clearly that there were some great animated scenes but the directing was very average. I also wrote that s4 has big problems with animation but the directing makes up for it. Now imagine the same scenes but with the s1 director's level. And learn to fucking read and understand. From s3, AOT's biggest attraction is the story. Just because I don't like the animation doesn't mean I can't approve of the directing. Hayashi tries harder than Koizuka lol ... still not Araki level but better than Koizuka lmao. The last episodes were great because the story carried them around. In s3p2, the best directed scenes are the second half of ep54 and the second half of ep59 and surprise, these are the only scenes in s3 directed by Araki. The best directed and animated fight in s3 is Levi vs Kenny Squad ... literally the beginning of s3 .. Levi vs BT is just animation. The truth is that if s3 had a directing level of s1 or even s2 then at this point we would not be listing the individual scenes as great, and only based on animation, but we would say that RtS was great as a whole (directing, animation, adaptation, scenarios ..). You couldn't name the best scene, everything would be great, every second of the episode, that's the potential of RtS arc .. but unfortunately it wasn't.. in anime adaptation. And yes, Ebisu also saved the s3 to some extent. All the sakuga cuts in ep.50 are his work. And surprisingly ep. 50 had no big problems with directing ... S3 could have been so much better if Koizuka hadn't screwed up the directing. But no, the WIT had to tell Araki to work on Kabaneri .. that's how the WIT board cared about AOT, the fucking Kabaneri was more important to them because they earn more from it than from AOT. Now s4. The S4 could be a lot better if the greedy production committee had given them even six months more to work on it (I think that would already help to some extent). Maybe then some freelancers would have agreed to work on it .. but no, those greedy motherfuckers on the production committee wanted the NOW season, and the equally stupid MAPPA board couldn't say no. Although I doubt that WIT, even with a better schedule, would want to work on s4 (they focus on their original projects, u know) they could still give better conditions to another studio. It's funny that with s4 the biggest problem is very limited time, while in s3 the problem was mainly the incompetent lmao director (s3 might even look better if they focused more on creative storyboards) And don't get me wrong. By the standards of other anime s3 has good or even very good directing. But by AOT standards it's average and even if s4 has the worst animations, s3 has the worst and most inconsistent directing. And you know very well that the direction >>>> animation and Death Note is a perfect example of this. Good direction is always the most important thing. (Skip the arguments that AOT wouldn't be popular if it wasn't for great animation etc, nobody watched s1 for the plot) Wow man you destroyed him with facts and logic, i agree 100% but people are too blinded by hate to understand the truth. |
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Animaniaig said: Seijatachiiii said: i still really just think its such a shame imagine if they hadnt changed studio, its not bad, but i think it wouldve been so much better. aot is such an important anime and they handled it in such a lackluster way It wouldn’t have been better. If Wit stayed doing it, it’s highly likely that the season wouldn’t even have colour on top of far worse visuals. serious so like,, you think that wit wouldve had the same budget as the final episodes of nge or something lmaoo |
alberto662 said: Fax001s said: Wow man you destroyed him with facts and logic, i agree 100% but people are too blinded by hate to understand the truth. what truth? that the cgi in season 4 sucks? Dude i'm referring to the directing, s4 is clearly a step up from s3p2 in that regard for the most part. |
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Leniaczeq said: Seijatachiiii said: serious so like,, you think that wit wouldve had the same budget as the final episodes of nge or something lmaoo Are you fucking stupid? Timing is much more important so no, the BTI wouldn't do better, dumbass, that's once. Two. CGI is actually more expensive than traditional 2D animation. They would also prefer to use 2D BUT THEY HAVE NO FUCKING TIME. WIT TOO WILL NOT HAVE IT. What can't you understand here? youre every wrong about the cgi lmao |
| Hopefully there won’t be as much complaining going forward since people know what to expect with the CGI now |
Yazan_Aot said: there is nothing called "toxic fanbase", except the people who keep saying " toxic fanbase" everyone have his/her own opinion,and everyone cane say whatever they want if you dont like other people opinion and you keep saying " toxic fanbase", then thats you and the people like you Thank you man, exactly what I'm thinking about this namecalling. |
CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: My personal opinions on the animation and production: Not a fan of the inconsistent character models, Mikasa looks like four different characters in the span of one episode. Eren also looks very inconsistent at times. They did floch dirty, but that's fine honestly lol. Attack Titan looks really bad in some shots. I don't know how I feel about Levi's design, I need to see more stills to determine. The CGI was expected but not to the extent that they used it. The animation was pretty good for Mikasa vs War Hammer Titan, but the over reliance of the CGI goes to show how strapped for time they are and how rushed this production is. The finally shot of the scouts dancing around the screen and Levi running into the camera was just cringy for me. OST mixing and placements isn't really there forte from the looks of it. Lot of just awkward moments where there is either no music or bad choice. And they really like the PV OST to much. I think the story and voice acting is what is carrying this adaptation. I think a lot of anime onlys are able to look past the faults of the season because it's their first experience with this 10/10 storytelling. I think it's a bit harder to look past the faults if you already know what happens, because at that point you're just judging it based on how it is as an adaptation rather then the whole experience. I greatly appreciate the animators busting there ass to do they best they can in this short amount of time they have to work on it. Considering the schedule, they've done a great job with the short amount of time they have. I just think they could've made it a lot better if they had more time to work on it. So essentially, I appreciate the animators for doing their best, but fuck the mappa executives for dumping this on to there employees and fuck the production committee for not granting them more time to work on it. Considering the circumstances, it's just an average adaptation and definitely a downgrade from the previous seasons. This comment condenses all my otherwise way too lengthy ramblings into a concise argument, thank you. Could not agree more. |
Leniaczeq said: Can you fucking read? I said clearly that there were some great animated scenes but the directing was very average. I also wrote that s4 has big problems with animation but the directing makes up for it. Now imagine the same scenes but with the s1 director's level. And learn to fucking read and understand. From s3, AOT's biggest attraction is the story. Just because I don't like the animation doesn't mean I can't approve of the directing. Hayashi tries harder than Koizuka lol ... still not Araki level but better than Koizuka lmao. The last episodes were great because the story carried them around. In s3p2, the best directed scenes are the second half of ep54 and the second half of ep59 and surprise, these are the only scenes in s3 directed by Araki. The best directed and animated fight in s3 is Levi vs Kenny Squad ... literally the beginning of s3 .. Levi vs BT is just animation. The truth is that if s3 had a directing level of s1 or even s2 then at this point we would not be listing the individual scenes as great, and only based on animation, but we would say that RtS was great as a whole (directing, animation, adaptation, scenarios ..). You couldn't name the best scene, everything would be great, every second of the episode, that's the potential of RtS arc .. but unfortunately it wasn't.. in anime adaptation. And yes, Ebisu also saved the s3 to some extent. All the sakuga cuts in ep.50 are his work. And surprisingly ep. 50 had no big problems with directing ... S3 could have been so much better if Koizuka hadn't screwed up the directing. But no, the WIT had to tell Araki to work on Kabaneri .. that's how the WIT board cared about AOT, the fucking Kabaneri was more important to them because they earn more from it than from AOT. Now s4. The S4 could be a lot better if the greedy production committee had given them even six months more to work on it (I think that would already help to some extent). Maybe then some freelancers would have agreed to work on it .. but no, those greedy motherfuckers on the production committee wanted the NOW season, and the equally stupid MAPPA board couldn't say no. Although I doubt that WIT, even with a better schedule, would want to work on s4 (they focus on their original projects, u know) they could still give better conditions to another studio. It's funny that with s4 the biggest problem is very limited time, while in s3 the problem was mainly the incompetent lmao director (s3 might even look better if they focused more on creative storyboards) And don't get me wrong. By the standards of other anime s3 has good or even very good directing. But by AOT standards it's average and even if s4 has the worst animations, s3 has the worst and most inconsistent directing. And you know very well that the direction >>>> animation and Death Note is a perfect example of this. Good direction is always the most important thing. (Skip the arguments that AOT wouldn't be popular if it wasn't for great animation etc, nobody watched s1 for the plot) All your arguments are all sensible but you really gotta calm yourself down there, mate. :D Would also really like to know where you got the exact info (aka how the second half of Ep 54 is done by Araki). :) Cheers. I guess the scenes by Araki that you mentioned (ep 54, second half) are all those nice camera movements (Mikasa's spin toward Reiner's mouth and the camera spinning as well, Eren's surprise attack on Berthold)? I can't really recall anything special from ep 59 though, what scenes were supposed to be "well directed"? Genuinely asking. He seems to have a thing for dynamic shots - reminds me of the scene where Eren transforms into a titan in S1 to pick up the boulder - that scene towards his transformation was amazing. Sadly, S3 already showed signs of overworked staff and S4 just appears to be the high point of crunch for a bunch of different poor bastards who have to animate it. For shame. |
Mattinator95 said: From what I have read cgi is more expensive but is also cheaper at the same time as they are only using one model and saves more time. From what I have read about CGI being used in anime, then sure, it's way more expensive to make a decent and detailed 3D model than to draw the thing you want to have in your show, but at the same time you can use that model in the other scenes, or even episodes as well, so in the end it's cheaper than 2D. |
Mattinator95 said: And speeds up production and conponsates for lack of animators as they don't have enough or anyone at all to to do the titans scenes in the scale of this season constantly Exactly. But it's slightly easier to make a bad looking CGI (not only models, but animating them as well to fit everything else in the animation) than to make a terribly drawn pictures forming an animation that doesn't look good. Not that much easier, but still I feel it's easier due to the consistency of methods used in the production process. After all it's easier to notice CGI differing too much from 2D elements, than 2D (even low quality one) differing from other 2D elements. |
CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: My personal opinions on the animation and production: Not a fan of the inconsistent character models, Mikasa looks like four different characters in the span of one episode. Eren also looks very inconsistent at times. They did floch dirty, but that's fine honestly lol. Attack Titan looks really bad in some shots. I don't know how I feel about Levi's design, I need to see more stills to determine. The CGI was expected but not to the extent that they used it. The animation was pretty good for Mikasa vs War Hammer Titan, but the over reliance of the CGI goes to show how strapped for time they are and how rushed this production is. The finally shot of the scouts dancing around the screen and Levi running into the camera was just cringy for me. OST mixing and placements isn't really there forte from the looks of it. Lot of just awkward moments where there is either no music or bad choice. And they really like the PV OST to much. I think the story and voice acting is what is carrying this adaptation. I think a lot of anime onlys are able to look past the faults of the season because it's their first experience with this 10/10 storytelling. I think it's a bit harder to look past the faults if you already know what happens, because at that point you're just judging it based on how it is as an adaptation rather then the whole experience. I greatly appreciate the animators busting there ass to do they best they can in this short amount of time they have to work on it. Considering the schedule, they've done a great job with the short amount of time they have. I just think they could've made it a lot better if they had more time to work on it. So essentially, I appreciate the animators for doing their best, but fuck the mappa executives for dumping this on to there employees and fuck the production committee for not granting them more time to work on it. Considering the circumstances, it's just an average adaptation and definitely a downgrade from the previous seasons. Nah man, the ost placement was amazing for the most part, i understand the trailer music but the rest was amazing especially in the begging it completely succeded to capture the dread of the situation. The last scene with Levi was dope if you think it was cringe then by your standards how did you even watch s1 lmao. Aside from that you are correct, the story and voice acting are carrying a lot. |
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Madlaad said: What you mean super animator? Did you even see the Warhammer transformation? It was pure gorgeous sakugayaegerist-15 said: they started late because the comitee asked very late, pre production began at december 2019, thats wayyy to late, pre prodcution has to began at least 1.5 years before the release. Ill not say this adaption is perfect but Ill wait until at least the marley arc is done to judge it but chances are that if mappa didnt pick this up, kodansha would gave it to studio deen or j.c staff, because all they care is to release it before the manga ends, isayama wants that too unfortunately (surprising), but I thought he is passionated about the anime? That why we still have to wait, the director hayashi said something about the last 2 episodes will have movie quality storyboarding, maybe there is still some good freelancer for some good 2d shots like the 40 seconds mikasa vs warhammer titan fight which was good. Dec 19 😬 damn that's hella late wonder what the hell they have been doing all this time. Anyways chances of super animator are non-existent now that we already into hype territory but no one is working personally i would've liked for super animator to do erems both transformation. The second transformation was off screen 🤣. Wasting opportunity like that really shows how short on time they are. |
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| this week episode got a lot of ADs but the episode did not melt surprisingly like the common thing on other anime with a lot of ADs in an episode nice work those 4(?) Vinland Saga staff did wonders as ADs on this weeks episode but ye as expected no super animators or sakuga worthy moments again due to the tight schedule |
Madlaad said: Yes, those were amazing. As amazing as the Warhammer's transformationNostalgik said: What you mean super animator? Did you even see the Warhammer transformation? It was pure gorgeous sakuga You remember eren and ymirs transformation in s2? |
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| Looks like the monke CGI production was better this episode. But we all know where did the real monke production went to. KONG VS GODZILLA (2021). |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
shingojira-chan said: @deg Since the upcoming episodes wouldn't have any titans , how do you think the quality of the episodes would be ? as good as the first 5 episodes i guess (except episode 2) but maybe with slight drop in quality since we are in the middle episodes now where historically its a more tight production schedule but again there is a chance the talented staff will overcompensate again like they did with episode 7 where there are 11 ADs but the episode did not melt in animation |
deg said: shingojira-chan said: @deg Since the upcoming episodes wouldn't have any titans , how do you think the quality of the episodes would be ? but again there is a chance the talented staff will overcompensate again like they did with episode 7 where there are 11 ADs but the episode did not melt in animation Do you think they could do that to every single episode ? |
  Something that’s supposed to die and doesn’t… will eventually rot away , whether it’s a man or a nation |
shingojira-chan said: deg said: but again there is a chance the talented staff will overcompensate again like they did with episode 7 where there are 11 ADs but the episode did not melt in animation Do you think they could do that to every single episode ? ye they can its only 1 cour anime anyway with additional 3 episodes |
| If I have to guess, the episodes covering 108-112 will be the low priority ones, so 10-12 I guess. |
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