| If the things were explained then why some people aren't entertained by the fact that we see the whole picture? They even start doubting the character's decisions and the ways MC gets out of the situation. I can explain why. Viewers tend to forget that we see the events from the killer's perspective. We perceive the characters from the killer's point of view. Thus, we are only given the amount of information available to the killer. As simple as that. For the entertainment value alone it's enough and it works quite well. But this also makes some people mad. Every character's action must have a reason, and when we only see the effect without a cause we're forced to think. Except that your average viewer isn't used to thinking. The audience expects the story and the character's motives to be explained in your face. That's why we constantly ask questions like "why did the character do this and not that", and that's why we come up with the simplest yet somewhat reasonable explanation "characters are dumb and the MC has plot armor." I doubt this show ever becomes a classic because people would rather appreciate seeing proper characters exposition and something with a more artistic feel to it in general. But we should definitely treasure this one as a rare specimen. |
| even though you hate this anime because you don't know anything at least it has the best plot this season, if you are annoyed while watching it you have to read the manga first and there is a lot of explanation why Nana is like that, the average person just hates and drops, well people's tastes are different but this is the best show and I enjoy it |
| Well, the ones who have no idea about the plot are the first to give out their judgements. The minute a new character is introduced, they'll be like, I don't know anything about him/her, why should I care about him/her. Some would complain that there are so many characters that it's confusing. This is the first anime for which I had to go and read the manga, because it made me curious. Nana is an amazing killer, though a bit brainwashed. The more power you have, the less brains you use, and it's evident from the characters. It's hard for it to be a classic, not because it's not great, but because the community in genral is a little bit impatient. |
 |
| classic? that’s a pretty bold take if I’ve ever seen one |
 |
| So I'd say it depends on whether you mean classic as "one of the best shows in my opinion" or classic in the sense of "a show that is widely known or respected by fans of the medium". If the former, well obviously that varies person to person, what I consider one of my classics could come across as boring to someone else. But sure, it absolutely could be one of your classics. If you mean the latter of a show that is widely known or respected...... at the moment I kinda doubt it. It's somewhat popular, but honestly not even close to one of the top anime of the season, and even a good number of the shows above it I doubt will be widely remembered for years to come. And I'm not sure it's poised to really become such a well respected show that it stays in the topic through dedicated fans pushing it just because from basically episode 2 on, it's been pretty contentious between people that feel it is great at the psychological thriller bit and people that think it's trying to be clever but is not smart enough to actually be clever. Maybe it'll turn around with some huge reveal at the end that shows just how smart the show actually is, but I'm not going to expect that just because that's a recipe for disappointment (I'll be ecstatic if it happens though) So at least at the moment, I don't think it'll be widely considered a classic. If it becomes one of your favorites, great, push the show, try to get others to love it the way you love it, but remember not everyone will. And if my comment is laughable years from now because it's undeniably a classic, great for the show, I'm glad it managed to gain that attention. But where I am now, I don't see it being remembered much into 2021. |
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
| Almost 70k people watching in the MAL statistics at this point is actually relatively strong, and it has an upwards trend too. It started off way down. Of course, it will probably not get as many viewers as the biggest battle shonen / action / romcom / harem shows because those are usually what people like the most. MaskOfIce said: Death Note and Code Geass are not even remotely smart in their mind game and strategy shenanigans, and that never stopped them. Though people tend to have an overly generous view of them for some reason. I don't think actually being smart in strategies and mind games is a prerequisite at all.from basically episode 2 on, it's been pretty contentious between people that feel it is great at the psychological thriller bit and people that think it's trying to be clever but is not smart enough to actually be clever. Maybe it'll turn around with some huge reveal at the end that shows just how smart the show actually is, but I'm not going to expect that just because that's a recipe for disappointment (I'll be ecstatic if it happens though) |
TheDeedsOfMenDec 7, 2020 11:04 AM
| I don't know if it's a classic or anything but it's definitely my pick for AOTS |
| This anime shit is addictive |
TheDeedsOfMen said: MaskOfIce said: Death Note and Code Geass are not even remotely smart in their mind game and strategy shenanigans, and that never stopped them. Though people tend to have an overly generous view of them for some reason. I don't think actually being smart in strategies and mind games is a prerequisite at all.from basically episode 2 on, it's been pretty contentious between people that feel it is great at the psychological thriller bit and people that think it's trying to be clever but is not smart enough to actually be clever. Maybe it'll turn around with some huge reveal at the end that shows just how smart the show actually is, but I'm not going to expect that just because that's a recipe for disappointment (I'll be ecstatic if it happens though) The point wasn't that that was a prerequisite, but rather that it's neither popular enough to become a classic at the moment, nor is it getting the sort of universal acclaim that makes it likely for it to be looked at as a classic down the line. While I wasn't watching anime during the heyday of Death Note and Code Geass, both are some of the most popular anime of all time, so it doesn't matter their quality at this point, they've earned a classic status through that alone. Talentless Nana is far from the most popular anime this season, and that's where my comment about it's reception comes in, because with the relatively contentious opinions, it seems unlikely to me for it grow in stature over time. Could I be wrong? Of course. Kemono Friends famously had a terrible initial impression but slowly grew over time to be arguably a modern classic. But with where it is now, I don't see that happening. |
MaskOfIceDec 7, 2020 1:36 PM
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
| It's pretty good, got me into reading it's manga and gotta say the adaptation is pretty well, weak start but going good. |
| But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. |
MaskOfIce said: TheDeedsOfMen said: Death Note and Code Geass are not even remotely smart in their mind game and strategy shenanigans, and that never stopped them. Though people tend to have an overly generous view of them for some reason. I don't think actually being smart in strategies and mind games is a prerequisite at all. The point wasn't that that was a prerequisite, but rather that it's neither popular enough to become a classic at the moment, nor is it getting the sort of universal acclaim that makes it likely for it to be looked at as a classic down the line. While I wasn't watching anime during the heyday of Death Note and Code Geass, both are some of the most popular anime of all time, so it doesn't matter their quality at this point, they've earned a classic status through that alone. Talentless Nana is far from the most popular anime this season, and that's where my comment about it's reception comes in, because with the relatively contentious opinions, it seems unlikely to me for it grow in stature over time. Could I be wrong? Of course. Kemono Friends famously had a terrible initial impression but slowly grew over time to be arguably a modern classic. But with where it is now, I don't see that happening. Of course I don't think it will as popular as Death Note or Code Geass. What I said is that actually smart strategies and mind games are definitely not the reason for the difference. You were speculating about whether the show would show its intelligence at the end; I argue that it is barely even relevant as far as popularity is concerned. The viewers don't care about intelligence. There are far more obvious examples of that; after all, DN and CG are still relatively smart shows overall. The list of the most popular anime of all time is stacked with battle shonen, action shows, Gary Stu isekai, harems, various romcoms, etc., along with old shows that had a long time to gather viewers. Breaking into that group was never realistic to begin with. |
TheDeedsOfMen said: MaskOfIce said: The point wasn't that that was a prerequisite, but rather that it's neither popular enough to become a classic at the moment, nor is it getting the sort of universal acclaim that makes it likely for it to be looked at as a classic down the line. While I wasn't watching anime during the heyday of Death Note and Code Geass, both are some of the most popular anime of all time, so it doesn't matter their quality at this point, they've earned a classic status through that alone. Talentless Nana is far from the most popular anime this season, and that's where my comment about it's reception comes in, because with the relatively contentious opinions, it seems unlikely to me for it grow in stature over time. Could I be wrong? Of course. Kemono Friends famously had a terrible initial impression but slowly grew over time to be arguably a modern classic. But with where it is now, I don't see that happening. Of course I don't think it will as popular as Death Note or Code Geass. What I said is that actually smart strategies and mind games are definitely not the reason for the difference. You were speculating about whether the show would show its intelligence at the end; I argue that it is barely even relevant as far as popularity is concerned. The viewers don't care about intelligence. There are far more obvious examples of that; after all, DN and CG are still relatively smart shows overall. The list of the most popular anime of all time is stacked with battle shonen, action shows, Gary Stu isekai, harems, various romcoms, etc., along with old shows that had a long time to gather viewers. Breaking into that group was never realistic to begin with. Ah, I mostly meant that bit about whether it would "show its intelligence" for whether the popular consensus would turn around on the show, basically just "I don't expect the fact that it's contentious to go away" was all I meant by that, but the way I expressed that was bad I'll admit. |
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
| As much as mirai nikki, danganronpa or assasination classroom are considered classics. |
zahermit said: This? A classic? It's not even close to the best show this season, let alone 2020 anime as a whole. Get real. And if the manga is anything to go by, season 2 would just be worse.So rare we get the chance to see a anime who makes you think like this one, unlike detective shows in which you cannot see the entire picture and then the MC pulls out some proof that wasn't even on camera, in this anime you can deduce most things before they are explained by the detective. It feels so good when you discover stuff side by side with the characters. What do you think? Can this become a classic? |
 |
YutakaYamadafan said: This is one of the most enjoyable shows im watching this season. Its a breath of fresh air You are really joking right? |
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Blue_86 said: As I mentioned, that never stopped Death Note and Code Geass with far more absurd "tactical" decisions, and those are still way smarter than most of the other popular anime. Why are you even assuming that the anime community rewards intelligence or cares about it? A classic? Absolutely not. I’m enjoying this show fine, but it’s certainly not the type of show to be commonly regarded by the anime community as a classic. It will probably be forgotten in a few seasons or so. It suffers from a bad case of character is made to look smart by dumbing down the rest of the cast. Now, if you want an anime to become a classic, the easiest ways are: 1) standard battle shonen, and 2) Gary Stu harem isekai. Do one of those, and you have a decent shot. |
SparkleDuck said: zahermit said: This? A classic? It's not even close to the best show this season, let alone 2020 anime as a whole. Get real. And if the manga is anything to go by, season 2 would just be worse.So rare we get the chance to see a anime who makes you think like this one, unlike detective shows in which you cannot see the entire picture and then the MC pulls out some proof that wasn't even on camera, in this anime you can deduce most things before they are explained by the detective. It feels so good when you discover stuff side by side with the characters. What do you think? Can this become a classic? What do you thing is the best show this season?? |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Scordolo said: Tossup between Golden Kamuy S3, Higurashi Gou and Akuadama Drive, but Golden Kamuy for me personally. AoT has the potential but it only started towards the end of the season so not much to go off of yet.SparkleDuck said: This? A classic? It's not even close to the best show this season, let alone 2020 anime as a whole. Get real. And if the manga is anything to go by, season 2 would just be worse. What do you thing is the best show this season?? |
|
SparkleDuck said: Tossup between Golden Kamuy S3, Higurashi Gou and Akuadama Drive, but Golden Kamuy for me personally. AoT has the potential but it only started towards the end of the season so not much to go off of yet. personally im going to give golden kamuy and nana 9/10, higurashi gou so far is disappointing and akudama lost a lot of its quality after |
Blue_86 said: It is not only that the strategies are too complicated; they are often very counterproductive and are likely to expose the protagonists or otherwise wreck their plans. Often Light and Lelouch would have no business getting anywhere near losing, but they somehow manage to throw away their advantages. Then luckily their opponents also throw their chances away. But people often don't notice those points. Also, I thought that Talentless Nana already explains its reasoning far too much, and it gets in the way of pacing, but I guess even more wouldn't hurt.TheDeedsOfMen said: As I mentioned, that never stopped Death Note and Code Geass with far more absurd "tactical" decisions, and those are still way smarter than most of the other popular anime. Why are you even assuming that the anime community rewards intelligence or cares about it? Now, if you want an anime to become a classic, the easiest ways are: 1) standard battle shonen, and 2) Gary Stu harem isekai. Do one of those, and you have a decent shot. True, that’s generally the classic criteria unfortunately. But in Nana’s case, characters feel too noticeably dense- is it just me? It’s not really accessible like Death Note or Code Geass, and the production values don’t help it. Death Note may dumb down it’s characters, but most of the strategies are needlessly complicated and explained to the audience well, meaning it can appeal to a wide variety of people. Code Geass may think it’s a lot smarter than it is, but it has stand out production values, is one of the few mecha shows with a great ending, lots of waifus, and is generally pretty charming and entertaining. Nana just doesn’t have anything like that- in my opinion The point about waifus is 100 % true when it comes to popularity. Many people probably like the mecha battles. They are an ironic example though because most of those shouldn't even have happened if Lelouch had opted to rely on his eye power more. Why challenge the Britannian military to so many battles in the open when the stealthy approach is more effectives? The last few episodes of Code Geass have many logic gaps, more than most parts of the show actually. But a lot of people still really love the ending, so they didn't notice or care. Still, I would argue that Talentless Nana has much of the same raw entertainment value as Death Note and Code Geass: relatively fast-paced, stacked with outrageous, melodramatic plot twists, has decently witty dialogue, has some moral and social commentary (though not super-advanced). Obviously they all have differences in plot structure, world-building, substance, etc. Analyzing all these series makes me appreciate Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu even more, though it still gets fire for unrealistic space battles and the like. |
Strykeryno said: RefreshNerves said: it's this your Alt account lmao ? No, even though I watch anime for 10+ years, I ever used MAL only as information site. But then corona happened and I got really bored, so why not to talk about the show I’am enjoying. Same, except I don't even use mal much, it's a backup site while anilist is my main Mal's fault for being down so often |
Blue_86 said: I rather think that all the “MHA + Among Us” and “Among Us: the Anime” Youtube videos were good for this show's popularity. It may be misleading and misrepresenting to an extent, but it makes for catchy titles and meme-filled segments. I have seen this show get positive attention on a bunch of videos related to this season, as well as other social media. Even I only started watching this last month because of the vague hype I heard and people screaming that I should watch.TheDeedsOfMen said: It is not only that the strategies are too complicated; they are often very counterproductive and are likely to expose the protagonists or otherwise wreck their plans. Often Light and Lelouch would have no business getting anywhere near losing, but they somehow manage to throw away their advantages. Then luckily their opponents also throw their chances away. But people often don't notice those points. Also, I thought that Talentless Nana already explains its reasoning far too much, and it gets in the way of pacing, but I guess even more wouldn't hurt. The point about waifus is 100 % true when it comes to popularity. Many people probably like the mecha battles. They are an ironic example though because most of those shouldn't even have happened if Lelouch had opted to rely on his eye power more. Why challenge the Britannian military to so many battles in the open when the stealthy approach is more effectives? The last few episodes of Code Geass have many logic gaps, more than most parts of the show actually. But a lot of people still really love the ending, so they didn't notice or care. Still, I would argue that Talentless Nana has much of the same raw entertainment value as Death Note and Code Geass: relatively fast-paced, stacked with outrageous, melodramatic plot twists, has decently witty dialogue, has some moral and social commentary (though not super-advanced). Obviously they all have differences in plot structure, world-building, substance, etc. Analyzing all these series makes me appreciate Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu even more, though it still gets fire for unrealistic space battles and the like. Thing about Nana is that it’s just doesn’t stand out. The production values as I mentioned before aren’t anything to write home about, and the source material hasn’t received much hype at all. It’s decently witty when it wants to be, sure, I just don’t think it’s quite attention grabbing enough. A quick glance at it would make someone think it’s a cheap MHA rip off with the Among Us plot line taped on. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of people talking about it either This show had a lot of ground to make up. In mid-September, it was way down on the list, with under 10k people overall. Now it has more people actually watching than Noblesse, Higurashi or Kamisama, for instance, and its growth rate is still higher. Regardless of quality, it is a heroic rise by sheer numbers. It has been much in the same boat as Akudama Drive and The Journey of Elaina in that sense, even more so considering where it started. Blue_86 said: Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu is a funny case when we talk about classics. It is one of those shows that a decent number of people plan to watch but only 50k have completed, with a further 25k watching (according to MAL statistics). There are already more people watching / having watched Talentless Nana than LotGH.Never watched Galactic Heroes-really need to get around to that. Is it as good as everyone says it is? Of course I like LotGH a lot. It is great for people who like lenghty plot developments, high plot cohesion, gigantic world-building, large casts of characters, politics, war, and philosophy. The dialogue is witty and likes to talk about political philosophy, ethics, history, and so on. The list of topics is broad, but the main focus is the legitimacy of government. Realistic space battles, not so much, and there are some really dumb military officers among the side characters as well. Aside from the OVA, there is also the new version, Die Neue These, and the original novel. There are slight differences between them. Die Neue These is the one closer to the novel. If we are throwing out recommendations, next season I will be watching Kumo Desu ga, an isekai with actually interesting plot developments. (I see it is on your Plan to Watch list already.) If you ever want to read the source material, read the light novel, not the manga. I really mean it this time because the manga ruins the plot much more than adaptations usually. Based on the limited info in the PVs, the anime should be closer to the novel. |
TodAboT said: Descended_ said: I dont mean this as an insult, I seriously can't understand tf you are trying to say here |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
TodAboT said: Death Note never even tried to explain why Light and L are feeding each other free important info for no reason, starting from eps 2-3. Isn't the goal of the criminal to elude the detective and the goal of the detective to catch the criminal? About 95 % of the events realistically had no place happening. It was still often entertaining but made no sense. I guess the implied reason is the massive arrogance of the characters, but that would be worse than in Talentless Nana then.Honestly, that's not gonna happen. Death Note and Code Geass are shows that are flawed (I'd say Code Geass is a worse show than Nana), but Talentless Nana has a constant feeling of plot holes and conveniences every episode. Unlike Light and Lelouch, Nana also never tries to use schemes with astronomical odds against them. The luck seems pretty tame in comparison. How were people dying constantly when Tsunekichi's body was the first one they found? That said, I would believe them ignoring the "suffering" of his spirit and asking for the info anyway. Are you talking about reading Yuuka's mind or Shinji's "mind"? Nana was never alone with Shinji's corpse aside from the very brief moment of trying to kill him. If you are talking about Yuuka, Nana claims multiple times that she can't use her power to reliably parse specific thoughts. And why would Yuuka even be inclined to forcefully think that her boyfriend is dead? Sure, she admits it sometimes, but usually she is in an insane state of acting as though he is alive. Nana even believes that Yuuka may have split personality disorder. TodAboT said: Analyzing that would require very specific parsing of information, which is far beyond Nana's stated abilities.If you recall a true event and you add fake bits to it, you would have to think about the real bits to change them (I guess whether you agree with me on this part or not is where the discussion ends). |
TheDeedsOfMenDec 24, 2020 3:09 PM
TodAboT said: there are conveniences like the "enemies of humanity" that i feel are used as a crutch a bit too much but the overuse of it does get explored eventually. i cant really think of any serious plot holes thoughAnd I feel like this show is more obvious and constant with its conveniences and plot holes compared to other similar shows. |
Aure0linDec 24, 2020 3:43 PM
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
TodAboT said: Figuring out that Nana's mind-reading is a lie based on her casually looking at a watch would be such an arbitrary guess. Forget about galaxy-braining things; you would need to fit in a whole universe for that one.That Yuuka explanation makes sense, especially with her breakdown at the end of episode 7, but the Nana explanation doesn't. When people talk to Nana about some personal topic, Nana usually adds information to said topic when she notices their clothes, movements, or a watch, like in the first episode. That would imply that she can control it, although I guess other characters don't really notice the inconsistencies of what she says, which is really convenient. TodAboT said: To have a meaningful conversation, people need to define what they mean by the word "classic" and apply it consistently within the conversation. Your suggestion of genre-specific definitions isn't universally agreed on. Calling something a classic for old, established status is a possible definition, sure, but it is not exclusive to standard battle shonen.I guess that the "classic" problem has to do more with what this show tries to accomplish. A standard battle shounen doesn't really try to act super smart or have a psychological battle. When people call a standard shounen a classic, I don't think they mean it's fantastic, but more like it defines a generation. DBZ is a classic after all. When people call a psychological series a classic, it refers more to its overall quality. And I feel like this show is more obvious and constant with its conveniences and plot holes compared to other similar shows. Also, separately, letting series off the hook because they "are not trying to act smart" is not something I can agree on. Doesn't it make the series super-boring then? They shove in a bunch of standard fight scenes and lazy dialogue and call it a day. Where's the entertainment? |
TheDeedsOfMenDec 24, 2020 3:50 PM
More topics from this board
» talentless nana S2?VELVET_BLUES - Jun 24, 2021 |
18 |
by Sku_te
»»
Oct 18, 9:20 AM |
|
Poll: » Munou na Nana Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Ringare - Dec 27, 2020 |
267 |
by Sku_te
»»
Oct 11, 10:17 AM |
|
Poll: » Munou na Nana Episode 7 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Nov 15, 2020 |
132 |
by GOBERSERK
»»
Jun 12, 1:42 PM |
|
Poll: » Munou na Nana Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )XXXXXXXXXIII - Sep 26, 2020 |
285 |
by EmiliaPinkman
»»
May 27, 9:27 AM |
|
Poll: » Munou na Nana Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Dec 6, 2020 |
133 |
by Narity_
»»
Feb 13, 9:59 AM |