DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DeathfireD said: PS. there are no two rapes. There's Rape (ie. forcing someone to have sex against their will) and Consensual sex (both party's like each other and want to have sex/make love). Don't ever try and group them together again. Nah, I think you're missing my point. Basically, what I said is that "rape" is close to forcing yourself on somebody for sex. The one that sticked true to the definiton, like you said: "Forcing someone to have sex against their will" is the "authentic" one I mentioned. However, what if a girl likes a boy, but was too shy to think about those things. Then, one day, the dude got horny and decided to "rape" the girl. Now at first, that fits the "authentic" definition of "rape". But, the slight difference is that the victim happened to like the offender, disliked it at first, but enjoyed it later. Then, in this case, how would you interpret it? Wasn't it the same like what I said? "The one that makes the victim ask for it, a.k.a consensual sex, rather than "rape". ", minus the "make victim ask for it" since it mal-interpret what I originally want to convey. So as conclusion, I did try and group them together and the result is quite logical IMO ;) PS: And I think it's enough for now, not that I don't like logical argumentations, but because that "R" word is like the most annoying thing I would like to avoid if I can help it, since I bloody hate it. Hope you understand ;) |
BitchMasterOct 17, 2009 12:11 AM
 If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| If the sex is not consensual then it is rape. This is not rocket science. It doesn't matter if they both like each other and are boyfriend/girlfriend. If one of the parties does not want to have intercourse and the other person persists then that is rape. |
Meddigo said: If the sex is not consensual then it is rape. This is not rocket science. It doesn't matter if they both like each other and are boyfriend/girlfriend. If one of the parties does not want to have intercourse and the other person persists then that is rape. Duh, I knew that far. One side= rape ; 2 sides= consensual. Oh wai-, you even read my post? I said that what boggling me is the case that I mentioned: At 1st sight, it's 1 side=rape. Then gradually, it's 2 sides=consensual. You can't deny that it got "rape" elements into it, so it should be considered as a form of "rape" If you want easier to understand words, it's a mix in-between of the 2 kinds, like how chimeras work, got it memorized? Oh well, that kinda strayed away from what I originally talked about, i.e Misaki related matter. All in one sentence: All of the males she met suck, Touya seems to be the best outta them even though he was a jerk and Misaki knew it. If not for her phobia (Thanks DeathFire for reminding me that) and Touya's insincerity, then she would go all the way with him to seven eleven heaven. |
BitchMasterOct 17, 2009 12:47 AM
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| There is no mix. It is either consensual sex or it isn't. There is no grey zone. |
| God I hope there is a nice boat end to this show. |
 |
Meddigo said: What if it begins with rape then becomes consensual?There is no mix. It is either consensual sex or it isn't. There is no grey zone. or what if it begins with consensual then turning into rape, how do you define that? gray zone? :-) Wasabi said: God I hope there is a nice boat end to this show. there wont be. |
     |
vinesage said: Wasabi said: God I hope there is a nice boat end to this show. there wont be. There would be. Just look at Touya's face it is pretty clear that he know how to cheat on both girls. |
 "A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
Siva said: I have a theory that his insides are filled with maggots and rotting waste.vinesage said: Wasabi said: God I hope there is a nice boat end to this show. there wont be. There would be. Just look at Touya's face it is pretty clear that he know how to cheat on both girls. He.Must.Die. |
Kvakond said: I have a theory that his insides are filled with maggots and rotting waste. He.Must.Die. And an epic one too. I wouldn't mind if they were to make one whole episode about him dying. |
"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
| Do you guys even think about why he does what he does and acts the way he acts? Or do you just immediately think to kill him without a second thought? |
 |
| Please, elaborate if you think you know something. The show hasn't done a good job painting him in any type of sympathetic fashion. He seems to just be a weak child, incapable of figuring out what he wants, so he indulges the women around him. Except that now he's avoiding Yuki. Maybe there's something in his past with his father that affects him a little, but he's too old to be blaming everything on his dad anymore. He hasn't taken responsibility for anything, and I think the scene with his father shows his lack of introspection. |
| I directed the statement at the other users, but I'll have to explain myself anyway, so yeah. I posted this on AnimeSuki, so I'll just copy and paste: So, what has this guy been through? His girlfriend, whom he never truly established a solid relationship with, as taken away by her career. While she had nothing to hold on to other than him, Yayoi came to replace Yuki. People become lonely, especially when the one they love is away. And since this is 1986, there are no cell phones, e-mails, and answering machines are just starting to come into the industry. If they had more ways to communicate, I doubt things would have happened like they did.. no, I take that back. Yayoi would have just pressured him more and he would have lied to Yuki whenever they communicated. You also had Rina give him a job as her assistant, there preventing him from seeing Yuki even though he took the job in hope of seeing her. And when he ran into her, it was the worst possible moment (and boy was that a funny scene). He also had Misaki sucker him into helping her. Since he felt guilty about what was happening with Yuki he looked for a way out and she gave it to him. She then proceeded to use all of Touya's time and once she got what she was looking for, she backed out.. realizing just how sick Touya has become (partially from what you did to him, Misaki!). Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying its okay for Touya to sleep with Yayoi, on the contrary I hate infidelity although I really am not one to talk since I was in Yayoi's role in the past, although the circumstances where significantly different, it was still wrong. Touya will get what is coming to him, but he is also a victim to circumstance as much as Yuki is. I don't see the two of them coming out of this as a couple anymore, I just hope the end isn't too tragic for the characters. The heart is a fickle thing and the mind can play tricks on us. |
| |
| I don't want to say this, DragoZero, but a lot of your points have been made at various times during the course of the first season and have been discussed. For a lot of the people saying Touya should die (and I'm almost one of them), it's specifically because he has not taken anything into his own hands. I personally doubt that he ever loved Yuki. I know Yuki was infatuated with him, and I can't remember any of his part in this courtship since it's been half a year. I think the fact that Touya didn't even know where Yuki lived in the first season is a bit indicative of his naivety throughout this whole thing. Furthermore, he repeatedly cheats on Yuki with Yayoi. I think you're forgetting that he doesn't seem to even care about Yuki anymore, kissing her only when he's staring at Yayoi in the face, and only letting her in to see him because of Yayoi. I agree that Misaki is as big a bitch in this show as Akira is. She knew that Touya doesn't see her that way, and played on the distance between the two of them to worm her way in thinking the distance would change his mind. But that doesn't mean that Touya is inexcusable. Besides helping her, he projects his loneliness and desperation onto her and forces himself on Misaki. Taking into account all of that, we have his dickish relationship with his father that only amplifies his douche quotient. We have seen no redeemable qualities in him since he only really does anything to better his image of himself while hurting literally everyone around him. |
| Exactly. There is motive and reason. Before, everyone was just saying he should die and all of that. I'm not denying the fact that he is a jerk or anything, its just that there are reasons for it. And I wasn't here when the first season aired, so I don't know what you guys talked about. |
| |
noteDhero said: For a lot of the people saying Touya should die (and I'm almost one of them), it's specifically because he has not taken anything into his own hands. Oh? So you ignored the fact that he kinda decided on Yayoi in this ep, so he did take something into his own hands this time around. I personally doubt that he ever loved Yuki. I know Yuki was infatuated with him, and I can't remember any of his part in this courtship since it's been half a year. I think the fact that Touya didn't even know where Yuki lived in the first season is a bit indicative of his naivety throughout this whole thing. And she did? To me, it looks like she took him for granted and only realized that she have been ignoring others' feelings up til now in this ep. Furthermore, he repeatedly cheats on Yuki with Yayoi. I think you're forgetting that he doesn't seem to even care about Yuki anymore, kissing her only when he's staring at Yayoi in the face, and only letting her in to see him because of Yayoi. Well duh, after being ignored for so long by his gf, of course he would cheat and doesn't give a shit about her. Love already died down, you see? His only fault is not telling her that he wanna break up, that's it. I agree that Misaki is as big a bitch in this show as Akira is. She knew that Touya doesn't see her that way, and played on the distance between the two of them to worm her way in thinking the distance would change his mind. But that doesn't mean that Touya is inexcusable. Besides helping her, he projects his loneliness and desperation onto her and forces himself on Misaki. I see that more of a give and take relationship. She wanted love, Touya wanted to relieve his stress by helping her, nobody is at fault since they are using each other though she benefited it more than Touya at the end. Taking into account all of that, we have his dickish relationship with his father that only amplifies his douche quotient. We have seen no redeemable qualities in him since he only really does anything to better his image of himself while hurting literally everyone around him. Sorry, his pop is as mental as Eiji and we don't have much info on his background and how Touya and him were like before so stop making assumptions, puh-lease <_< PS: IMO, he did good things to help people around him, they benefited from his deeds. If they happen to fall in love with him, it's their own fault, he didn't ask for a date or anything in return. And he, like all human, perfectly has the right to love who he wanna loves, just like how Mrs. Naive has the right to do what she want to do, but isn't prepared for the consequences. If they already knew the person he truly is, then just stay away from him, like how Misaki did. Just because he doesn't love the gal people wants him to be with, they start wishing for his dead, seriously W.T.F?!! |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| Thanks noteDhero for sharing your thoughts once again. I believe you speak for many of us BitchMaster said: It has nothing to do with who he loves. Yuki or anyone else can die along with him for all i careJust because he doesn't love the gal people wants him to be with, they start wishing for his dead, seriously W.T.F?!! |
| My quick response to the majority of your post is "It takes two to tango," BitchMaster. Touya is at fault in his relationship with Yuki because he refuses to end it, and at this point is stringing her a long. With Yayoi, he is at fault for stringing her along in the begninning, and now kissing Yuki in front of her. As far as Yuki goes, I never said she was in love. I specifically said "infatuation" and really it only amounts to a crush. Neither seems to know the other all that well, and as such they are both completely to blame for their shitty relationship and failed attempts at holding on to something that doesn't exist. My point is that Touya has penchant for being an asshole. I'll quote Into the Woods. He's not good, he's just nice. His helping others only comes from a selfish place. His actions are only from a selfish place of being non-confrontational. But I suppose when everyone's a little to blame for everything, it's hard to pick out the biggest (and main) prick. I'll also note that the people who did get disillusioned to Touya's true nature stay the hell away from him: his father, Akira, and Misaki. |
| Yayoi strings him at the beginning, you know? So, she got what it's coming, no matter how I love her, I gotta admit it... So, Touya can be excused from "stringing her along in the beginning". And you have a point when saying "people who did get disillusioned to Touya's true nature stay the hell away from him: his father, Akira, and Misaki.", but that's not exactly who we want to stay away from him, right? It's the girls who are currently stuck with him that we want. And you forgot to count in Mana and Haruka since they're into each other now ;) No deny he's an asshole for dragging his relationship with Yuki though, but we never see what's he thiking about it, so I will give it a couple eps before making a clearer judgement... Kvakond said: It has nothing to do with who he loves. Yuki or anyone else can die along with him for all i care Oups, sorry, forgot to add the "majority" since there are people who watch it objectively and some who watch it for "Nice Titanic" so yeah, my bad +_+ |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| True, Yayoi was a big whore in the last season. I don't really know what's going on with her this season. It's all very abrupt because I thought she was only doing it to keep him away from Yuki, but now she looks attached. Honestly, I want them all to stay away from him. Maybe then he'll do some soul searching and realize what type of person he is. Total ostracism is what he needs most. As for Mana and Haruka, I don't count them, because I don't get the feeling like they've been exposed to that selfish side yet (if I remember correctly). We do see what he is thinking. So much of that floating text throughout the show has been his random thoughts. Like at the end of episode one of this season (I forget what he says), and talking about replacing Yayoi with Yuki in his mind as he slept with her, and noting how Yayoi is like a lifeless doll. That also adds to his asshole quotient now that I think about it. We don't see it all, but we get lots of glimpses into his absent mind. |
| Well, true but what I need to see is what he truly thinks about Yuki and their relationship. That's the vital piece of information that I want since that can clearly explains his behavior in this ep toward Yayoi, either him deciding on being a player or he just wanna check Yayoi's love for him... Those floating texts are nice to give us insights on what he thinking but too short to explain some big stuffs. As for Yayoi, I think that having a disgusting fatass stalker is a lot of stress and seeing how she's the unsociable type, I guess she's always lonely as we alreay saw how she spent most of her time in the car. Now, the fact that having someone by her side and making love to her can ease that loneliness and sex can relieve stress in one way or another (I thought I learned about that kinda stuff in psychology but not sure...), so I wouldn't be surprised if love can bloom from this shallow sex-based relationship... Even though that's not romantic at all :( |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| I don't think we're going to get an answer anytime soon. I feel like that's going to be the "mystery" that they spin everything around this season. But I could be wron. As for Yayoi, I honestly think this whole thing is going to turn out to be an excuse to have Touya damage her. |
Kicco said: Another school days? Well we could always hope for it : D |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
noteDhero said: True, Yayoi was a big whore in the last season. I don't really know what's going on with her this season. It's all very abrupt because I thought she was only doing it to keep him away from Yuki, but now she looks attached. I think that guy Hiiragi is scaring her somehow. There were some pictures taken and it could be some plot going about that. If you noticed Yayoi seems not to be able to even go home and stays in her car. There is a stalker and that should be taken into a fact that it is making her not well at all. Is all I want to say. Oosran said: Kicco said: Another school days? Well we could always hope for it : D I don't know what that is but I do think Touya might suicide himself somehow. I would take Yayoi with me if that happens to make it better. |
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
BitchMaster said: DeathfireD said: PS. there are no two rapes. There's Rape (ie. forcing someone to have sex against their will) and Consensual sex (both party's like each other and want to have sex/make love). Don't ever try and group them together again. Nah, I think you're missing my point. Basically, what I said is that "rape" is close to forcing yourself on somebody for sex. The one that sticked true to the definiton, like you said: "Forcing someone to have sex against their will" is the "authentic" one I mentioned. However, what if a girl likes a boy, but was too shy to think about those things. Then, one day, the dude got horny and decided to "rape" the girl. Now at first, that fits the "authentic" definition of "rape". But, the slight difference is that the victim happened to like the offender, disliked it at first, but enjoyed it later. Then, in this case, how would you interpret it? Wasn't it the same like what I said? "The one that makes the victim ask for it, a.k.a consensual sex, rather than "rape". ", minus the "make victim ask for it" since it mal-interpret what I originally want to convey. So as conclusion, I did try and group them together and the result is quite logical IMO ;) PS: And I think it's enough for now, not that I don't like logical argumentations, but because that "R" word is like the most annoying thing I would like to avoid if I can help it, since I bloody hate it. Hope you understand ;) I think you need to look up the definition of rape. Like the person bellow me said, there's either rape or there's consensual sex there's no in between so stop trying to say there is. There's role playing sex where one side has a fantasy of being raped by their lover but that's also consensual sex because both are lovers and are still planning to have sex regardless. As for Yayoi, she's using him just like he's been using her. They both have their own reasons. Think of them as friends with benefits. |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| That was a pretty long kiss. |
     #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net - the official IRC channel for Fate Testarossa.  |
Vizard said: That was a pretty long kiss. That's how French kiss for you XD Oh wai-, they are Japanese, never mind then...<_< |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
BitchMaster said: Vizard said: That was a pretty long kiss. That's how French kiss for you XD Oh wai-, they are Japanese, never mind then...<_< I think is was more deep press. |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
 Too many interruptions while watching this episode.. |
 |
| My god, touya is being a dick now, he should stop playing around.. |
 |
| Touya were always dissapointed me... >_> |
 |
| For moment i felt like " yeah i kinda understand, Touya's got some kind of complex from combinations of his mothers death, being kicked out by his father and his only close person became idol so he saw her few times a year and only for few mins each, which resulted in his mind thinkin that he's gonna be abonded by each person he loves, but then he goes with Shinozuka/san right after he met his GF. He really is despitable character afte all. At least Misaki is trying to get out his reach even though i think she's forcing herself to be with Akira as replacement at the moment. Sent with Mal Updater |
( Currently interested in OP MC genre. Recommendations are welcomed, preferable those yet not on my list ) |
| Dat ending. Also, I lol'd @ the scene "Happy New Yea-". Then, *kiss*. |
 |
| Touya is such an asshole wow. |
 |
| Well now we just wait for things to blow up. Ogata has proof that Touya is cheating. He seemed to hint that he knew, but this confirms it. |
 |
| God damn I feel so bad for Yuki knowing he's just cheating with that manager... it's like everyone on this anime is in heat or something... |
 |
| Yayoi really had a yandere look on her face when she was climbing up those staors. Jeez! I hope Touya ends up alone at the end of the series. What an asshole. Yuki needs to dump his ass. Oh shit! Eiji saw Touya getting picked up by Yayoi. He knows something now. Or is at least suspicious. Let's see where this goes. |
| Boring episode until the end. Yayoi for the win! It's about time Touya kissed Yuki. Every other scene he keeps at least 3 feet between them. And he missed his chance at the sleepover in season 1, idiot. Everyone complaining about cheating this cheating that. That's why the show is tagged as a harem. |
 |
More topics from this board
Poll: » White Album 2nd Season Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )francismeunier - Dec 24, 2009 |
131 |
by Daninokuni
»»
Oct 17, 2023 5:19 PM |
|
Poll: » White Album 2nd Season Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 )francismeunier - Dec 5, 2009 |
52 |
by Daninokuni
»»
Oct 16, 2023 6:58 AM |
|
Poll: » White Album 2nd Season Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 )francismeunier - Nov 28, 2009 |
68 |
by Daninokuni
»»
Oct 15, 2023 4:47 PM |
|
Poll: » White Album 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 )ShanaFlame - Nov 6, 2009 |
62 |
by Daninokuni
»»
Oct 13, 2023 12:24 PM |
|
Poll: » White Album 2nd Season Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 )ShanaFlame - Oct 30, 2009 |
61 |
by Daninokuni
»»
Oct 12, 2023 4:21 PM |