Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina (light novel)
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Opticflash said: I don't think it's that people think she should be responsible with great power. I think it's because they can't actually reason at all. They'll see a protagonist with a personality trait they don't like and then claim the anime is terrible because the character didn't fit their ideal, morally "perfect" superhero vision of what a main protagonist should be. Ask them to analyze a movie like Joker and these dumb dumbs will say it's a shit movie because Joker is a bad guy while ignoring the vastly complex presentation of the character and the themes and morals depicted. I personally wouldn't say that the attitude you are describing stems from inherent irrationality or stupidity, but rather from a lack of moral flexibility. A lot of people are unwilling to discard their moral axioms in order to try to better understand another person's viewpoint. I don't blame them for that, since I've been that type of person in the past, plus being dogmatic is the easy road to take and I take the easy road in different ways myself; however, it does make it difficult to enjoy a morally nuanced anime like this one. |
| Every day you can read a book or watch some anime is a good day! |
| Elaina didn't have to do anything, but way she haven't reporter the flower field at least to other towns? What if the flowers reach her parent house in future or all the word at some point? Though the town should had more protection if they know that flowers are poisonous. Someone could have bring them inside unnoticed. Why they didn't pay some witch for killing the monster flower? It's just I think that they could do so many but they do nothing to protect themselves ; p. I believe that manga chapter for this story have much more sense. Besides that I'm wondering if the girl from ep. 2 and girl from second half of ep. 3 are sisters. Also if she really killed herself, it was her choice. I would at least try to run from there. Still I hope Elaina run in to good stories also. I don't see a point in traveling the word only to witness deaths or pain if she takes no action to stop them or maybe she will write them dawn for other people as a warning what may happen at least? |
Namu12Oct 16, 2020 11:12 PM
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hazarddex said: she knew the story behind the flowers and she knew the plants were dangerous, but she did it anyways. ??? She was TOLD by the guard about the flowers. Are we watching the same anime? hazarddex said: i find it more funny people try to deflect criticism of a character. ??? When did I try to deflect criticism of her character? Sure, I'll criticize Arthur as a morally corrupt character. Does (Arthur - bad/psychopathic character) == (Joker - bad movie)? Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post and baiting. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 2:42 PM
Opticflash said: hazarddex said: she knew the story behind the flowers and she knew the plants were dangerous, but she did it anyways. ??? She was TOLD by the guard about the flowers. Are we watching the same anime? hazarddex said: i find it more funny people try to deflect criticism of a character. ??? When did I try to deflect criticism of her character? Sure, I'll criticize Arthur as a morally corrupt character. Does (Arthur - bad/psychopathic character) == (Joker - bad movie)? in the LN she knew the entire story and how it ended and still did it. imagine trying to compare a 1 dimensional character that doesn't really contribute anything to the story besides acting as the "view point." compared to the joker who had a compelling shirty life leading him downs route to do bad things later on. smh real tied of people trying to compare this to kino no tabi and mushishi they are literally noting alike other then going to places. which spice and wolf also does, but i wouldn't call kino no tabi spice and wolf. Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 2:43 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| Elaina is indeed a WITCH. |
I love K-On, and so should you.  |
Ranger_Reisoda said: What she could have done?It's very common for anime protagonist to be righteous and jump into action even if they are completely uninvolved, so it's strange to see such a passive reaction to tragic situations. However, it is refreshing to see. We might want the characters to do the right thing and get a happy ending, but that isn't always possible or realistic. I don't think Elaina's behaviour was cruel in Nino's story. In the scene where she was pointing her wand at the fat guy it seemed like she wanted to intervene, but becoming a murderer obviously wouldn't benefit Elaina or solve the problem. Its not like Elaina had a place for Nino to go either. She encouraged bowl hair cut guy to try make her happy which is about all she could've done. Elaina not wanting to know what happened to her is not from a lack of concern imo, it could be more like sadness or guilt for not being able to help. Or maybe she didnt want to confront something emotionally difficult and would rather not think about it. You can speculate on it but even then her going back would probably not do any good. As for the story with the zombie plant people, I think Elaina probably could've done something about that. Since she would be one of the few people unaffected by it. What exactly she could've done though, idk. She could burn the whole field but that would definitely be very macabre because there are still living people in amongst it, even if they are brainwashed. I cant see Elaina putting the brother out of his misery either, even if that would be the most ethical thing to do; Elaina is still a young girl. It was a pretty abrupt cliffhanger too, maybe leaving out the zombies heading towards the city would've been better. Option 1: Burn the field. People inside the field are already beyond saving Option 2: Call down snow . Plants generally die or become dormant at small temperatures way before humans can be affected by it. Option 3: Call an army of locust to consume the field Option 4: Use plant killing substances. As a witch and a book worm she probably know of a lot of them. Option 5: Make a huge wall around the garden Option 6: modify the plant so that it does not feed on human mana anymore Option 7: move the field somewhere without humans Option 8: levitate the flowers and squash them And that is from the top of my head... also the plants consume mana which is kind like lifeforce in this universe not magic. They are affected by magic. |
gaussian_ said: Opticflash said: I don't think it's that people think she should be responsible with great power. I think it's because they can't actually reason at all. They'll see a protagonist with a personality trait they don't like and then claim the anime is terrible because the character didn't fit their ideal, morally "perfect" superhero vision of what a main protagonist should be. Ask them to analyze a movie like Joker and these dumb dumbs will say it's a shit movie because Joker is a bad guy while ignoring the vastly complex presentation of the character and the themes and morals depicted. I personally wouldn't say that the attitude you are describing stems from inherent irrationality or stupidity, but rather from a lack of moral flexibility. A lot of people are unwilling to discard their moral axioms in order to try to better understand another person's viewpoint. I don't blame them for that, since I've been that type of person in the past, plus being dogmatic is the easy road to take and I take the easy road in different ways myself; however, it does make it difficult to enjoy a morally nuanced anime like this one. I would buy that if it were not for the fact that there is a litany of visual and written works that depict characters with questionable moral values (by Western standards) that people pay almost no attention to; Joker being one of them. Even in manga/anime there are works like Code Geass/Death Note, etc. In many video games there are an overwhelming number of questionable elements, but hey if it's all in the name of "fun", who cares about them? I agree with your sentiment in general, but if people thought more critically about what they are viewing, there shouldn't be any heated discussions like this. |
| Did she basically poison/kill an entire town or did I miss something? It seems like the burned flowers turned into a poisonous gas turning everyone that was in that square into flower zombies who are now bringing arm fulls of flowers to town. I'm sure there's some spell she could've done to get rid of them. She could have warned the town about the flower zombies at the very least. If she's going to journey through the world causing problems and not bothering to be part of the solution, she should just go home. Not helping Nino is understandable. That land has a culture of slavery and it looks like they're not going to change. If she wasn't willing to go all the way and take responsibility for Nino, i.e. take her with her or "get rid" of the village elder, then she needed to leave the situation alone. I actually like that she's not self righteously pushing her ideals on to others. |
dragynfaerieOct 17, 2020 12:05 AM
| Well, I was really expecting that Elaina will do atleast something about Nina's situation but yeah instead she chose not to meddle with it. This really shows how her character is just a 'wanderer' or a 'traveler' and not some type of hero that will try to save everything that comes to her path. I liked the episode, even though it had that really dark tone it. Here's to hoping that the future ones would have a more positive tone than this one. |
krukroooOct 17, 2020 7:21 PM
 I accept random friend requests! |
| I'll say it again: Elaina is indeed a fcking WITCH. |
I love K-On, and so should you. |
dragynfaerie said: Did she basically poison/kill an entire town or did I miss something? It seems like the burned flowers turned into a poisonous gas turning everyone that was in that square into flower zombies who are now bringing arm fulls of flowers to town. I'm sure there's some spell she could've done to get rid of them. Yes she did. Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 2:45 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| I know Elaina went on an adventure, but isn't Elaina too close to the person she just met? I thought that Nino committed suicide |
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gaussian_ said: It seems that a lot of the people in this thread have internalized Uncle Ben's advice "With great power come great responsibility." I don't think it's that people think she should be responsible with great power. I think it's because they can't actually reason at all. They'll see a protagonist with a personality trait they don't like and then claim the anime is terrible because the character didn't fit their ideal, morally "perfect" superhero vision of what a main protagonist should be. Ask them to analyze a movie like Joker and these dumb dumbs will say it's a shit movie because Joker is a bad guy while ignoring the vastly complex presentation of the character and the themes and morals depicted. Many people here are used to the idealized girls that abound so much in the typicals mangas/novels of romance and harem, "perfect girls" that respond to the taste of the self-insert, surely they cannot conceive of a girl who does not fit with their "dreamly pixie waifu" ideal. |
| Finally a good episode. I was starting to lose faith in this show. It wasn't perfect, there's a lot they didn't mention or analyze so Elaine's morality still seems non-existent to me, so I can't tell if she's being good, bad, indifferent, narcissistic or simple dumb. But we are improving |
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| This episode looked just as amazing as the last two, however, the subject mater was a little too realistic and uncomfortable. It was clear that the Village Chief was likely abusing Nino, and if he wasn't yet he intended too ("i bought her as she'll grow into a real beauty"). So Nino can either become an unwilling wife or a Village Chief's plaything, not the happiest ending, as Elaina herself commented when she was pondering Nino's life, she said she didn't know what happened to Nino & didn't want to know. This episode reminded me of Mushishi where you get beautiful settings mixed alongside uncomfortable situations, where people do strange things for many reasons. That's real life, but I was hoping for a slightly lighter atmosphere for the show. You can see from these two stories that Elaina knows when to walk away (that's not quite right, she makes a calculated choice whether to involve herself or not and these people are all strangers, is it her place to intervene in their lives, these morally ambiguous decisions are hard to fathom without knowing Elaina's full mindset, I'm not sure why she didn't save the soldier, but I assume she had a reason) and doesn't try and rescue every single person in distress she meets, as many anime MC try to do. "Who is the beauty blooming like the brightest flower, it's me". I wonder if Elaina will ever fall in love, she reminds me of that Greek tale of the guy who fell in love with his own reflection. |
23feanorOct 17, 2020 1:09 AM
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| Mixed feelings about this episode, in all honesty. Elaina being full of herself in the previous two episodes was kind of entertaining but I don't know if I feel the same anymore. I understand that she doesn't want to take part in all these conflicts and I respect that but lending a little hand at times can't be too bad, no? I don't know if it's because of the justice in me acting up lol but I definitely can't say I was totally on board with how things progressed this episode. Judging from the comments above, I'm guessing this dark tone will be more predominant going forward and here's to hoping I'll be able to appreciate it more from next episode onwards. Didn't experience this muddy feeling as much as during my watch of Lerche's Kino no Tabi though, I wonder why. |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni  |
| I feel like Nino was being molested by Emil's father. I kept on repeating that scene.. when she came out that door. :( She was tidying her outfit. |
| I was little surprised that she did not save anyone. I did not expect this But thats good thing. It would be boring if she plays the hero, save everyone and have happy ending like every other anime |
alberto662 said: mavericko said: Yall consume to much countless MC isekai trying to save the world, And when a new thing comes like this, dropped. Lol wtf. How many isekai do you want to consume? This is such a breath of fresh air. I gave this 7/10 for the first 2 episode. But after this episode 3 seeing the new approve of the MC, Jumped to 9/10 oh yes, thinking that not helping someone that it is being kept captive, raped and it it going to kill herself is wanting a "isekai MC trying to save the world"? Lmao ^ this exactly. This show is bad. Anyone who says otherwise has 1: not seen the good shit or 2: is ignorant af Yes, Elaina is a unique character BUT the execution of her character is bad writing to say the least. Hell, who even wrote these last 2 episodes? The first episode was amazing but these last 2 are absolute mediocrity. The writer has a good idea and story set up w/ its worldbuilding and all but the execution thereof is nowhere near the same quality. If the author wanted to rightfully portray Elaina as the type of character to distance herself from adversities, he could have done so better. Elaina comes off as too 2-D, the execution of the story itself is just not handled in a way that evokes sense and a flowing, quality experience. Overall it's just jarring. I feel I get what the author is trying to do but by god does it not translate well. |
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snakezenn said: Im not talking about saving the city, just that individual guard. Again you either did not read or did not understand what I was saying about trying to help the guard which in my opinion she is obligated to as her actions caused his specific situation to escalate. I am not expecting world shattering abilities, I am expecting human decency. Again, what was she supposed to do to save that guard, exactly? All you people who keep stating that seem to gloss over the fact that the whole situation was apparently hopeless and there was nothing Elaina could do. It's the whole point of the scene. hazarddex said: i really wish people would stop trying to compare this to kino no tabi. Kino got involved in a ton of the stories. please remember Kino killed a king and destabilized an entire country because said king pissed her off. And that's somehow "heroic" or "good"? I personally prefer a character who understands when you can and cannot get involved over one who does whatever pleases her and still gets called a hero. alberto662 said: oh yes, thinking that not helping someone that it is being kept captive, raped and it it going to kill herself is wanting a "isekai MC trying to save the world"? I still have to hear from ppl like you any kind of suggestion about what she could do to help that didn't involve just putting out the village chief and leaving the girl to her own means. Or are you trying to say that she should somehow drop her entire journey to abduct the girl and become her makeshift family, somehow? Do you take home every homeless person you find in the streets, too? Or rather, would you call anybody "selfish", "bitch", or "sociopathic" for not doing so? |
ZaratorOct 17, 2020 3:05 AM
This little [REDACTED] has the nerve to not feel obligated when she is the one who literally suggested for the Master's Son to open the bottle of happiness in front of the slave, and then realized later that she made a crucial mistake after remembering the other happiness story. And from the light novel she saw that the slave looked even sadder then from before and it showed in the anime as well. She then takes off brushing off the situation as something to sad to go back to when she literally intervened and pushed the mess even further. |
HulkAgiota said: WTF, i thought this anime was something to relax with, but after this im going to drop that shit. I hope this MC get killed in the future I laughed my ass off when I read this. Good one, friendo. Also, this person said it best, twice: And there you have it... why are people arguing over morals and debating so hard on this... IDK. I also don't know why would this show make people feel angry either... what am I missing? Elaina is a smug narcissistic bastard, so what? She didn't want to deal with a headache after trying to solve the zombie flower issue (by burning the flowers or whatever...), so what? She didn't kill the ugly bastard for how he treats Nino, again... I fail to see the issue people have with this show, first the yuri aspect, now this. Can we not just enjoy this for what it is? Probably not, apparently. |
| Moral of the episode and the message it wanted to deliver: > Meddling forced kindness is not always good and sometimes hurts the recipient Some people in this discussion: > "Oh no, Elaina didn't do a thing to evil shit in front of her! She's not the ideal hero of justice we expected her to be (and forced our imagination upon) therefore she's a bitch!" What a way to miss the whole point, it's even hilarious. You know the author has created a good story with gray moral zone if people with such moral high ground who usually self-insert into the story and can't differentiate between reality and fiction are butthurt. Such people can drop this show all they want and can stick up to their shounen protagonists while fapping to justice for all I care. I enjoyed this episode a lot along with its dark tonal shift, not to mention I got the message it wanted to deliver. 5/5 episode. Sometimes, you can't help but just love different opinions, right? This post's also aimed at that negative blog-like thread that was locked by mods. |
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| Good or bad, the debate over Elaina's moral attitude has managed to trigger the second longest episode discussion thread of this season so far (after Tonikaku Kawaii ep 1). If they wanted to create controversy, they certainly succeeded. For what it's worth, I liked it, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this evolves. |
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The_Wicker_Man said: I think Elaina's attitude towards helping others would be along the lines of if you want my help first you have to be willing to help yourself. There's 3 things she chooses not to help with in this episode. First, the general problem of the plant monster endangering the city. If the city, represented here by the older guard requested her assistance as a witch (for appropriate compensation) I'm sure she would have been willing to help. But they make no request, and also are making no efforts, as far as we can see, to solve the problem themselves, so she doesn't get involved. Second, the younger guard entrapped by the plant at the end. She speaks to him for a bit, seemingly considering helping him. But he appears to be happy with his fate & isn't looking to escape and so she again doesn't intervene. If he'd been trying to escape, she almost certainly would have helped. And lastly there's Nino. If she'd asked for help escaping the village chief, Elaina would almost certainly have obliged. But she doesn't, make any such request, she has seemingly resigned herself to her fate. This is thematically tied up by the story at the end of the episode with its line "Just because you are doing something for someone else doesn't make it right". Yes, Elaina could have intervened in each case but is it really up to her to decide what other people want for them if they don't ask for her help themselves? Personally, I find her a very relatable character as I expect I'd have reacted similarly in all these situations. I'm not particularly inclined to get myself involved in difficult situations, and especially not if my help isn't being requested in the first place. Of course the slavery one is difficult to place a modern Earth attitude towards because of course if I discovered somebody forcing a young girl to work as their slave I'd report them to the police, but it is implied that slavery is perfectly legal in this world, or at least the country as the village chief has no hesitation in saying that he has a slave.So, helping out in this case, would actually make Elaina to be legally in the wrong, even if you deem it to be morally correct. If the person involved isn't even asking to be helped in that situation, how many people would really still get themselves involved and bring trouble upon themselves. I'll be honest and admit that I doubt I would. I'll bet that a large number of the people in this thread complaining about Elaina wouldn't either, whether they admit it or not. Of course some people would still jump in and try to fight against what they see as injustice, regardless of the cost to themselves. But we have hundreds of anime about these people, it's quite nice, I believe, to get one about somebody who behaves more like the majority of real people are likely to. I get your point about not doing anything in her shoes too, because I'm most likely to do that as well. I totally understand her reasonings and I respect it but a part of me just can't stomach it, that's all. Maybe that'll change with a few more dark episodes but for the time being, it was a fair episode at best for me. |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni |
Mountebank6 said: But here, the choice of shots make it very clear that elaina knows nino is being sexually abused. The scene with the wand also makes it completely clear that elaina has the power to take complete control over the situation if she wanted to. This makes her "none of my business" reaction quite jarring. This is fine as a storytelling device, and it definitely packs a punch. It's okay as a story if elaina is a bastard. But the way this scenario is framed... it's as if the show doesn't realize the magnitude of the cruelty elaina is exhibiting. It's framed as if she's ignoring a much smaller crime, and THAT is sloppy writing. Are you really telling us that you think it'd have been better, and/or would have made more sense in the story, if Elaina flat-out shot at the village chief? What do you think would that have accomplished? What would've been of the girl and the chief's son, if that guy had died? Seriously, some of you guys really sound ridiculous. You're complaining about Elaina being "cold" or "heartless" and then you're straight-up suggesting murder as an alternative. And yes I'm saying "murder" because any scenario in which the village chief stayed alive and well would not have solved the issue, as the girl would've returned to her slave condition as soon as Elaina left (perhaps even worse, as the chief may have taken it out on her if Elaina tried to scold or threaten him). |
Aversa said: Flesh eating plants a naive kid and an old pervert. I guess this is the dark side of their world, since the story so far has been pretty rose coloured it's a clear sign that not everything is as it seems. The question is should she have helped them or not i kind of like the idea that she isn't a overly righteous person since that's something we see way to often in anime. She seems more of a realist tho she is a bit of a narcissist. ehh, I don't think its neither realist nor narcissist. more like don't get too involved with other people or else your travel ends there. that's very much the exact same words she told to the girl in ep2. discarding her own words now will make her a hypocrite. she only interferes when its absolutely necessary and nothing more. for better or worse. Hanfos said: Nilvius said: It's easy to call her useless but consider this: at the end of the day, she's still just a teenage girl going out alone into a world she knows little about. Sure, she knows magic, but knowing magic isn't unique and you never know what other repercussions may occur. Not all stories need to have clear cut solutions to have a point to having it made. Perhaps it's better for you to think of this series to be akin to Twilight Zone style of anthology series with Elaina functioning more like the Rod Serling equivalent who introduces us to the various setting. ur right maybe its just a type of anime which doesnt fit me this anime ep was just as dark like real life every day ppl get hurt and other ppl which have the power to help stay around and record it with their phone she doing the same but write it instead in her dairy at the end of the day i watch anime to get taken in another world and not to watch real life in anime style "just because I can doesn't mean I should." not my problem, give me a reason to care, why should I effort and what are my rewards and I can say so much more. because otherwise kindness just for the sake of kindness is just another form of cruelty. not to mention vanity and vexation of the spirit. just like life. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 1:33 PM
| >I had no brain when I was 12 >Then everyone must had no brain when they were 12 >I experimented 100 samples and proved that they had no brain when they were 12 >Therefore children cannot consent This is what science has done to humanity. |
| Seeing all these triggered people over Elaina is very weird. I loved yesterday's episode, and saw nothing wrong with it, but apparently a lot of people hate this anime now... Their loss. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
DarkYuzuko said: Seeing all these triggered people over Elaina is very weird. I loved yesterday's episode, and saw nothing wrong with it, but apparently a lot of people hate this anime now... Their loss. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I know right? and no, I'm going full Eleina with regards to these normies. just like it's the slave girl's loss that she didn't asked Eleina's help (or at least tried). Mod Edit: Removed baiting. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 1:39 PM
| >I had no brain when I was 12 >Then everyone must had no brain when they were 12 >I experimented 100 samples and proved that they had no brain when they were 12 >Therefore children cannot consent This is what science has done to humanity. |
| Elaina didn't do anything out of character or wrong: - In 1st part, she promised her mother she will run away if she encounters any danger - As for 2nd part, like Kino in Kino's Jouney, Elaina is more of observer and commentator, even if she did save Nino...then what? What would she do with her? Like she said, even good intentions produce bad results. |
alberto662 said: first of all meany people dont hate the series for elaina being a piece of shit, which she is, i hated this episode because the stories had so little run time that they didnt impact at all, im more disappointed at people who think that she was somehow right in not even trying to help a child kept captive and sexually abused I don't think she's a bad person. I said this yesterday, but, if any normal person was put in her place, I don't think they would have done anything different from what she did! I really like how she's neither good, nor evil. She feels more human (even though she's a witch, lol). The episodes were sad, but I'm honestly looking forward to this adventure with Elaina, and I hope more people get to enjoy the anime and I hope they get interested in reading the novel afterwards! I do respect your opinion though, and I hope you find better anime that suit your interests! kamil88 said: Elaina didn't do anything out of character or wrong: - In 1st part, she promised her mother she will run away if she encounters any danger - As for 2nd part, like Kino in Kino's Jouney, Elaina is more of observer and commentator, even if she did save Nino...then what? What would she do with her? Like she said, even good intentions produce bad results. Exactly! That's what I thought this show was about! I was not expecting a hero or a villain, but a witch on an adventure to observe things and write a journal of her journey! Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
Koito91Oct 17, 2020 1:43 PM
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