Toaru Kagaku no Accelerator Episode 6 Discussion

Yandere-Dragon said:
I find it really lame that he didn't kill them

Sarnlest said:
While I enjoyed the episode, something that I think significantly detracts from the show (and other recent seasons of To Aru shows) is there are no consequences. Nobody actually gets hurt. An excavator was shown running into the one girls hands for a solid minute, she should now have stumps instead of arms. But the next scene shows her hands with barely a scratch on them. Accelerator shows up and kicks ass, but nobody is actually hurt. At the end of the episode, one of those girls should have died from electrocution, another from being impaled with stone spikes, and another from an exploded head due to Accelerator flicking her. The show is rated R, so why are they animating it like it is rated PG? And there HAVE been times in the past where the same franchise has shown the consequences (e.g. the thousands of massacred/mutilated Misaka clones). Its hard to take Accelerator as a villain-like character (which is probably his most appealing side) when he doesn't actually hurt anyone.

Tiau said:

You seriously don't understand Accelerator's character if you honestly thought he was going to kill those kids unless they seriously tried(and almost succeed) at killing his family. The Sisters Project and this is very different.

Sarnlest said:


He was introduced to the series as a villain who had killed thousands of people in order to get stronger. He goes around talking about what a real villain is like. He is presented as only caring at all about the people who are useful to him. He gets joy out of toying with opponents that are weaker than him (basically everyone). Unless your claim is that the bullet in his head turned him into a good guy protagonist, he is supposed to be a psychopath. It is entirely out of character for him to NOT kill his opponents, particularly ones who are trying to kidnap one of the few people that he actually cares about (the Misaka clone). Besides which, the attacks he makes CLEARLY should have killed them. And again, there is no reason that the excavator shouldn't have turned zombie girl's arms into stumps. They are censoring the story or removing the gore to such an extent that there doesn't seem to be any consequences. It makes the story much less engaging when they do blatantly alter outcomes so that no character with a name gets hurt. If this was presented as a light hearted shounen aimed at children it would be one thing, but it is disappointing in this R rated anime that is a little more nuanced and less childish.

Tiau said:


You seriously don't understand Accelerator, as I thought.
The story clearly tells you three things about Accelerator in the sisters project, 1. he didn't actually want to kill all of those clones as Last Order herself explained and 2. in order to do so he had to convince himself those clones actually weren't people, and 3. he was convinced that if he did this nobody would ever challenge him so he wouldn't have to worry about hurting people anymore.

There's a reason why Accelerator was actually horrified when he saw the dead body of the girl earlier in the season, not only did it remind him of the clones, he's no psychopath seriously just saw the dead body of a innocent girl be used for horrible things

"He gets joy out of toying with opponents that are weaker than him (basically everyone). "
That's literally explained as him trying to scare people into backing out of a fight, which is why he didn't kill the filler girl in episode 1, nor did he kill Awaki in Index 1 or Scavenger here.

"Unless your claim is that the bullet in his head turned him into a good guy protagonist, he is supposed to be a psychopath. It is entirely out of character for him to NOT kill his opponents"
You mean the bullet in the head he took while trying to claim that he CAN be a hero and doesn't have to hurt people, also the same bullet he took because he specifically chose saving Last Order over killing the scientist?

"It is entirely out of character for him to NOT kill his opponents, particularly ones who are trying to kidnap one of the few people that he actually cares about (the Misaka clone). Besides which, the attacks he makes CLEARLY should have killed them"

Kidnapping is not the same as outright killing, neither would electrocuting or causing his opponents to pass out be killing them. Accelerator is literally the exact opposite of a psychopath, you need to rewatch both Railgun S and Index 1-2(and for this specific point, to see where his character ends up, 3 or read the novels). The people he kill and the reasons he kills them for are very different than what's going on here

As for the literal zombie girl that uses magic, do you seriously think a magical being falls under common sense?

Sarnlest said:


Let's make it nice and simple. He punched the one girl into the truck hard enough to destroy the truck, she should be dead. He crushed (impaled? another with rock spears, she should have significantly more serious injuries than just drooling. He electrocuted another girl. And the zombie girl's magic was torn to pieces by the MAGIC excavator in a few seconds, then she held it with her hands for like 2 minutes as blood was literally spraying everywhere and necromancer girl was staring in horror only to have her bring her hands back with barely a scratch (healing magic obviously not the case as her leg was easily cut and not healed earlier). There is no reason why she should still have hands other than plot armor and censorship.

Regardless of what a good guy you think Accelerator is (which again seems laughable because however you justify it he killed thousands of people, is a self proclaimed villain, and basically everyone else seems to agree is a psycho), the actual action animated in the show clearly should have had extreme consequences when it did not.

Tiau said:


The more you type the more I wonder if you actually know anything about Accelerator, and no this isn't about him being a good guy or him being justified or not. This is about him as a character objectively speaking he hates himself for what he did which is why he calls himself a villain because Touma must be the hero. He is not by any means a psychopath. Did you know that ever since he started calling himself a villain he's done literally only good deeds? He's not some mindless killer you claim he is.

Now as for the rest of your post, you do know what Accelerator's ability is yes? Vector Control, now do you seriously think Accelerator can't determine if his attack is lethal or not? He can literally make the streets crumble yet not actually hurt anyone and can also just kill someone outright with poking them, Scavenger's lives was quite literally in his hands and he chose not to kill them. That's the entire point

Sarnlest said:


You seem to be making character judgements about him that directly contradict what is shown in the shows. He hates being bothered by people, hates that he has to rely on the Misaka network, and routinely expresses delight in violence. Almost every action and everything he says indicates he believes himself so far above almost everyone else (with the exception of people who are of use to him) that they are insignificant, unimportant, and not worthy of his time/care. Objectively speaking, he shows numerous signs of being either extremely mentally unstable or psychopathic. Maybe they present some internal dialog in the manga or LNs that show he hates himself, but the show does not. It shows that he hates being bothered, hates having any weakness, and enjoys inflicting pain on his opponents. Yes, he has vector control which he uses to toy with and then crush his opponents. And do you really think he doesn't see them kidnapping a Misaka clone as something similar to murder? He knows that the other people in this case that have been kidnapped have either been murdered or about to be murdered and then escaped. He identified the girls as people who are a threat to the Misaka network (which he really only cares about because it is how he can use his abilities), he would not leave them unhurt.

And again, even if the manga or LN makes him out to be a regretful and caring person that doesn't want to hurt anyone (which would entirely ruin his character and the show), there is no explanation for zombie girl still having hands except plot armor/censorship.

Tiau said:

Do you...know what a tsundere is? Accelerator acts annoyed by Last Order and wants to be left alone yet goes out of his way to protect her and be with her. I know you don't know Japanese, but look up the OP to this series real quick and actually understand the lyrics. Objectively speaking, he cares a lot he just doesn't like showing it. He also doesn't believe to be above ANYONE, infact the real truth is that he consders himself scum and actually just wants a "family", a family he has now with Last Order.

"this show does not" you do know this spinoff relies on you actually knowing who Accelerator is yes? You're supposed to be going into this knowing everything else he went through, this is a gaiden story that's just designed to build on what's already there.

Tiau said:
Hell, I'll even post the ED, which captures Accelerator perfectly.

I want to paint, but when I closed the deal
So that it wouldn't be removed,
The hindrance that was lured out laughed.

Eating a terrible poor substitute that was already spoiled
It's a tough compensation for anyone, right?

Just hide your offers and your true self and run away.
Just blame me for everything that's bad.
My brain will never forgive
This sleeping jealousy and anger.

Avoiding failure and going mad, you existed in the end.
Why can't you live well?
The past that I saw that made me want to puke, just leave it unsettled.
The crumbling, vanishing heart that you're asking even now, just throw it all there.

[Full Version Continues:]

Those scratching itchy thoughts that aren't expected to get better,
They're just unsuited. From the start, they never fit.

Just passing the time, accepting everything that comes without thinking.
Even though you knew what to do, you pretended not to see.

I thought that I could just forget about lies and leave it at that.
My comfortable place was when I was all alone.

Without ever forgetting that jealousy and anger,
My brain fell even further.
I'd just met you,
And even now, my heart is convulsing in pain.

Avoiding failure and going mad, you existed in the end.
Why can't you live well?
The past that I saw that made me want to puke, just leave it unsettled.
My crumbling, vanishing self who you're asking even now,
You looked down on me, hated me and held me in scorn,
And threw me at that relieved, destroyed heart.

Sarnlest said:


I am well aware of what a Tsundere is, and actually have some knowledge of Japanese. I can see how you would think he was Tsundere-ish to Last Order, but that is not how I would interpret his caring about her (or at least, it is not the driving factor). He is entirely dependent on her and the rest of the Misaka network to be even the least but functional. He tolerates/takes care of her because he has no choice unless he wants to be a vegetable. He willingly killed thousands of Misakas when he wasn't reliant on them to function. It is not reasonable to believe he suddenly became a caring person that wants a family made of the people he was murdering left and right the day before. Maybe Last Order is growing on him, but given his history and character I highly doubt he would stick around her if he wasn't dependent on her.

His actions and words show that he believes himself above just about everyone. He walks around with enormous BDE and treats basically everyone as an annoyance. "Tch", "is that all?", and "what a drag" practically define his interactions. And again, he willingly (who could actually stop him?) joined a project that involved killing thousands of people to make himself stronger. That isn't something that someone who sees others as equals does. You can claim he convinced himself they weren't people, but he certainly treats them like people now that he is dependent on them. Seems awfully psychopathic to be able to consider others as people or not people as it suits him.

And of course it's a spin-off? I have seen the other shows, just got a big reader of manga/LN.

And again, zombie girl should have no hands now. Maybe if she didn't you could make the claim that Accelerator didn't want to hurt the scavengers. But as it stands, the show is displaying that they are unwilling to show gore and that they won't hurt characters with names (plot armor). Literally the only characters that have been hurt in lasting ways are nameless extras. Until they have other named characters actually face meaningful consequences when they get destroyed in a fight, the reasonable conclusion is not that Accelerator is a caring guy. It is that they don't want to hurt or kill off characters or show violence with consequences.

Sarnlest said:


You do realize that almost every anime ending is a reflective/sad/emotional song like this? It's so common it is a meme. I could easily find you dozens of ED that have the same tone, and dozens more that obviously have very little to do with the animes they are in.

Tiau said:


I think the meme here is you unironically being unable to understand that Accelerator actually does care about people.

Sarnlest said:


Lol convince yourself what you want, resorting to ad hominems kind of shows you can't provide sufficient evidence for your points. I was disappointed by the obvious plot armor. You have not provided a counterargument. Unless you can provide a reasonable explanation for why literally nobody with a name is hurt, you aren't addressing my point.

You post videos of Accelerator being "caring" in which he literally calls people guinea pigs and it shows them in a sea of corpses (which he obviously killed). He is literally the most powerful ESPer in the city, nobody could Force him to kill the Misakas. If he didn't want to kill them, they wouldn't be dead. Nobody too over his body or powers, he willingly killed thousands of people. That is not someone who is such a softie that he won't hurt his enemies.

Tiau said:


https://youtu.be/83r6tlEq5sQ?t=875

"Accelerator doesn't care about people", indeed which is why he literally got shot in the head because he didn't want the sisters to suffer anymore.


It's like you don't actually know why he got shot in the head in the first place, and your comment about sea of corpses is quite literally, LITERALLY ignoring symbolism.
"One day, this power's gonna bring the whole world against me"
"It might destroy everything"

"If power breeds conflict, Then I just need to have absolute power that no one'll ever contest"

"If I do that...One day, I'll...If I do that, I'll...I'll never have to..."

Sarnlest said:


The symbolism is obvious, but ridiculous since it directly contradicts his actions and abilities. If he didn't want to kill anyone, nobody would be dead. Yet he killed (and continued to kill) 10000+ people. His going along with the project to stop people from challenging him for the top spot was also kind of ridiculous given the already existing gap in strength between him and everyone else, but he was a small child when it started and already invested so much in it by later (plus, we do need a plot), so I will let that one pass. He got his ass beat by level 0 Touma and saw the futility of the lvl 6 project. He regretted killing those Misakas for the lvl 6 project that failed and wanted to make up for it. He has displayed no hesitance to use his powers against anyone else.

With vector control he could easily end fights without doing ANY damage to the person. Just cut off flow of oxygen to the brain for a couple seconds (or any of myriad ways to do render them unconscious without using ridiculous force). However his preferred method is to beat the crap out of them while laughing.

Yet despite being beat the crap out of, they magically aren't hurt. It's very inconsistent. And once again, zombie girl still has hands. .

Tiau said:


You do understand that Accelerator's ability is always on yes? he literally cannot ensure that he can't kill anyone if they come to him and shot guns at him like they did to him as a child or even as the very first sister did, the anime also shows you that people go out of their way to attack him with various methods even when he's just trying to go to the store and pick up groceries.

https://s2.mangadex.org/data/53ecdbafc950c7d20d6c29b79eb47602/x19.png

https://s2.mangadex.org/data/53ecdbafc950c7d20d6c29b79eb47602/x23.png

As for your claims of censorship, the only real censorship from this and the source is that Leader pissed herself, which was kept out of the anime and Seike had a nose bleed.
Accelerator did not kill the girls nor did he try to fatally injure them in any way. He is not the type of character to do so.

Indeed, they're all fine
https://s2.mangadex.org/data/1668af55626a3df119d1e4f6bfeb441c/x2.png

Sarnlest said:


I think you are underestimating what control of vectors means. Bullets don't have to deflect back. They can simply change to 0 velocity. Explosions? No force or heat applied. All movement, all forces, heat, all interactions are vectors. Basically, if it follows any physics (or is a physical phenomenon), it can be entirely altered or negated if you have control over vectors. Control of vectors nearly makes you God, you can break Newton's laws, control electricity, control gravity, violate conservation of energy or heat. Obviously he has limitations, but nullifying velocity or an attack is much easier than reflecting it. He touches a gun, accelerates vibration (movement) of molecules, it melts. Touch a person, give them the velocity to move to the top of a nearby building perfectly so they land with no downward force. If he didn't want to, nobody would have to be injured basically regardless of what they do. That is why he is number 1, because his ability is so ridiculously powerful and versatile by nature.

When I say censorship, I do not mean only of the television show (assuming the same content was in the manga). I mean the mangaka or LN author also dumbed down violence/gore/consequences to avoid offending anybody's delicate sensibilities. If they include action that objectively SHOULD result in horrible injuries, but then people aren't injured for no reason, it is lazy writing and makes the show less engaging. The audience learns that there are no consequences, things that happen don't really matter, and there is very little suspense.

They seem to have decided that they need to protect their audience from blood or violence, almost as if they want to target children as their audience. If they want to cater to children, fine, but be consistent. Make that clear that you aren't trying to be a serious show that deals with heavier subjects in a meaningful way. But don't make the tone grown up, get an R rating, and then treat the audience like children that you need to protect. And definitely don't do that in a sequel story that follows one where you showed brutal murders.

Tiau said:


Ok yeah, you don't know how Accelerator's auto reflect works, if someone attacks Accelerator without him knowing, his barrier will automatically reflect it with the exact same force without him doing anything. This is how Accelerator can't get assassinated in his sleep but also means that Accelerator can literally kill people in his sleep without knowing it. Accelerator is powerful and versatile but even for him there are things he doesn't like about his own ability, it's also the reason why he looks the way he does as his power is automatically blocking UV. All that other shit is fine and all but that's not how his innate barrier works, I obviously know how his power works and more as well as how far he can go without actually hurting people. Yes he's the "number 1", but being the number 1 doesn't mean he doesn't have his own flaws, unlucky for him those flaws means he can unintentionally hurt people quite easily. For Accelerator, being the "number 1" is not enough.

You keep saying they should and they shouldn't but that isn't really up to you to decide, that's Accelerator's character, he isn't going to kill these children and there isn't really much else I can tell you but that, he's not a edgelord character people like to present him as.

And Accelerator has been doing stuff like this in the main series too, so I'm not really sure what you mean. This is par the course .

Sarnlest said:

I am well aware that is how they present his ability as always being on autoreflect. However, not only do we see that not always be the case, but there is no reason he couldn't just make things velocity zero. And consciously he CAN control his abilities even if they choose to keep the autoreflect as a plot device. With the control over vectors that they have already shown him possessing, he could easily disable without hurting basically every character they have presented so far, even with his autoreflect on. I will give you that if someone catches him by surprise, the autoreflect may kill them, but if he is aware they are there it really should be a cakewalk for him to disable them without hurting them.

We will have to agree to disagree about the "edgelord" thing. I have heard your argument that he is deep down a caring and good guy that just wants a family. While there is the occasional scene that points to him being so, in 90% of the scenes what he says and his actions 90% of the time portray him as an op psychopath that takes joy in toying with his opponents, shattering their confidence, and then destroying them. I am going to take the 90% of his actions over the 10%.

It is really besides the point though. He did for a fact punch the one girl hard enough to destroy the truck she slammed into, speared the other with stone pillars, and electocuted the last. Yet none of them suffer any serious effects that unquestionably follow such incidents. And zombie girl's arms should be mush. They dumb down the violence so there aren't consequences. It makes the show less engaging. It is patronizing to the viewers. Until you provide a decent explanation why zombie girl still has arms, the only reasonable conclusion I can make is that plot armor is the most prevalent and powerful force in the series this season. Literally every named character has been immune to permanent consequences this season and it is unreasonable considering what they have gone through. That is the point of my posts, not Accelerator's character

Tiau said:


Prior to the obvious change of him being shot in the head and needing a collar(and even then, it is ALWAYS ON, it just only affects minor things like UV lights) his auto reflect is always on until he doesn't consider something a threat then he can let it pass the barrier OR he's using all his calculation power on something else, otherwise it is quite literally always on.


As for you still on the whole punch thing, since you watched Index 1-2 do I need to remind you of that time Awaki got her face punched in by Accelerator and was fine after one hospital visit? that punch had undoubtedly more force than being pushed too. Since Accelerator could've easily pushed them while also having Seike be considered into their barrier and not take any direct damage from it, Naru took stone pillars but they weren't even sharp ones, she wasn't impaled by them or anything like that either, her power also gives her durability and she's fine. As for being electrocuted, other characters in this franchise(hell even TOUMA got electrocuted hard by Mikoto in the first season and Railgun S and effectively walked it off), I don't think Seike needs to be any more damaged than she already is. As for Huotou's durability, I don't really need to explain much about that one honestly speaking, it's already explained/shown that these artificial spirits are superpower-full and don't really follow human standards despite Estelle trying to treat them as such, mind you this is a being who could catch up to a car easily according to itself.


You can agree to disagree, but I will say this, Last Order's comment about Accelerator talking to the clones(and by extension, other people) unnecessarily is quite true. Hell even when he was gunning down Hound Dog he still gave them chances and even willingly spared them if they were willing to stop trying to hurt him and his family. Only a few people get to the point where they need to be killed by Accelerator.