Sword Art Online (light novel)
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herrickluk said: Pedram said: Sigh... 1) My comment somewhere else when someone asked if Quinella swearing on her fluctlight was any kind of real bind or did Cardinal just believed Quinella : 2) I already explained it above, Cardinal can't coz she is a program and she have many limitation, not only she got Seal of the Right eye, she is not really a human and is half program. same as Quinella. she can't disobey. Eugeo can attack it coz Eugeo broke the only seal and limitation he had in EP10 ! he broke his eye. 3) Eugeo literally saw what Quinella did, turn the beloved people of the memory crystals and make them into sword, then let their Desire to posses their loved one, control the Sword Golem. He then think he should do the same with himself, because... he learn from EP19~20, that the desire to posses that Quinella is mistaking as real love and using it is not really correct and what the humans want. Love is not someone u take in return for giving, it's not like money or a trade, he believed if he become a Sword with Alice, his and Kid alice's bond is stronger than the fake desire that control Sword Golem and will defeat it. and it did. there is build up and development and obvious reasons for everything before this. you just didn't notice. Sigh... 1) I don't agree with that at all. There is no outcome where dying would be better than living for Cardinal. If she just wanted to stall time for Kirito and others, staying alive would undoubtedly give them more time to decide on a course of action. If she thought there was a chance Quinella would not immediately attack them afterwards, then that's just poor misguided reasoning, which I dont buy. 2) That's not what I'm arguing. I understand that Cardinal cannot attack humans, it is the fact that Eugeo did that I have contention with. Why would he attack and destroy the physical embodiment of human lives, it makes no sense. They are HUMAN LIVES! 3) That may be the case, but the time it took for him to decide he had to turn into a sword and him actually doing it is not believable. It's not convincing in the slightest. Literally 30 seconds to decide. No monologue, no discussion with the other members, he just does it. I can explain all of that tho it will be long 1.You can say that because you don't understand Quinella's character. Quinella is one that care for herself more than anything that's her principle, just remember when she gets old she desperately searching for ways to get younger and do anything to preserve her full memory capacity. That's why when Cardinal propose to surrender she ask her not to vow on god but on her own fluctlight, if Quinella betrays that that means she's denying her own existence so she'll definitely will keep her promise base on that vow. The reason why she attacked them afterwards is because they broke their promise first and try to offend Quinella by turning Eugeo to sword, nulling her vow. This is explained in LN 2.Cardinal is restricted by the seal of right eye too and this should be explain when she's talkig with kirito back on episode 13 but anime skipped that, that's why even if she wants to, she won't be able to attack the sword while Eugeo has already broken through that so he can kill all he wants. 3.what do you mean by 30 seconds? He's already desperately searching for ways to fight while Cardinal is being tortured and in the end conclude that's the only way, it's also because of Alice's voice calling and guide him to his decision. |
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| Cardinal’s execution was hard to watch ;_; So Eugeo turned into a sword and then died? Wut? |
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| Eugeo turned into a sword... Hehe, Administrator turned her arm into a sword... Administrator was about to strike Alice and Kirito was still on his knees. He must have been ridiculously fast to draw his sword, get up, get in front of Alice, and block Administrator's attack. Alright then. Eugeo did his job of weakening Administrator. Kirito should have no problem beating a one-armed woman. |
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| Well I'm kinda lost this episode but thankfully some of the posts here helps. That Eugeo vs the golem and Quinella is not as good as I expect it to be but well it's acceptable. Can't wait to see Kirito vs Quinella in the next episode. |
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| So....they did the supporting cast of this series pretty damn dirty and I see a lot of people in this thread who read the LNs pretty triggered by it. Yeah...I'm with you. And...boy oh boy I'm worried to see how much of an asspull this finale to this part of the story is going to be. |
| Don't believe the hype. |
| Ahhh now I'm depressed about Eugeo |
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herrickluk said: Again, my issue was not that. I understand she can't attack hhumans. It was EUGEO. He shouldn't have made that call to attack that sword golem since there are real lives inside of it. Him destroying it should not have been his choice to make alone. I will clarify this point to you. But I want to say in the begining that my intention is only to make you understand why and not to make you suddenly like SAO when you disliked it from the start. So hopefully you don't drag the discussion. Quinella stated that she will create many more of these sword golems by converting half of the human population. If Eugeo didn't make that call, surely it would have come to pass. Eugeo killing the sword golem was lesser of the two evils. It was quite realistic that he would take that decision. They even showed his monologue to explain why he took that decision. The other possible outcomes are - 1) Eugeo saying I don't want to kill 300 people and giving up. I think that is more unrealistic. This troupe is used many anime, however. 2) Eugeo discussing whether he should kill it or not with Kirito and Alice while cardinal is about to die at any moment and lose his opportunity to become a sword. Lets be honest here. If he actually discussed it with them in the middle of the fight, you would have just complained about it too. I think a lot of other complaints you have are because of a lack of understanding the characters and setting. But because how long it took for me to write explanation for this one point, I am not going to bother with any other complaints you have. If you don't like the anime, that is your loss, not mine. |
Chrome_FalconMar 23, 2019 9:49 PM
| look, i don't care if more than half of the people here say this anime is 'objectively bad' or whatever. I HAD BEEN WAITING LIKE SIX F*CKING YEARS TO SEE EUGEO ON SCREEN BEFORE THIS ARC STARTED AIRING AND NOW I CAN'T STOP CRYING |
 Ｓｗｅｅｔ♥I guess, as long as I have life, all I can do is fight with all my might. |
| This episode was so trash. Like Cardinal gave her life and really thought quinella wouldn't harm them. Is she that dumb |
Dajoeman said: This episode was so trash. Like Cardinal gave her life and really thought quinella wouldn't harm them. Is she that dumb Quinella can't break promises when she swore it on herself. (Because of the seal of right eye) |
Mattinator95 said: A-1 seems to being having fun rushing it That's really funny since a lot of other people are complaining about it being too slow. Is it really being rushed? |
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herrickluk said: whiters99 said: I can explain all of that tho it will be long 1.You can say that because you don't understand Quinella's character. Quinella is one that care for herself more than anything that's her principle, just remember when she gets old she desperately searching for ways to get younger and do anything to preserve her full memory capacity. That's why when Cardinal propose to surrender she ask her not to vow on god but on her own fluctlight, if Quinella betrays that that means she's denying her own existence so she'll definitely will keep her promise base on that vow. The reason why she attacked them afterwards is because they broke their promise first and try to offend Quinella by turning Eugeo to sword, nulling her vow. This is explained in LN 2.Cardinal is restricted by the seal of right eye too and this should be explain when she's talkig with kirito back on episode 13 but anime skipped that, that's why even if she wants to, she won't be able to attack the sword while Eugeo has already broken through that so he can kill all he wants. 3.what do you mean by 30 seconds? He's already desperately searching for ways to fight while Cardinal is being tortured and in the end conclude that's the only way, it's also because of Alice's voice calling and guide him to his decision. 1) interesting, so they omitted that part from the anime im guessing. Still I don't think Cardinal dying was the best course of action 2) Again, my issue was not that. I understand she can't attack hhumans. It was EUGEO. He shouldn't have made that call to attack that sword golem since there are real lives inside of it. Him destroying it should not have been his choice to make alone. 3) I didn't buy his epiphany seeing as he was in the pits of despair 30 seconds prior, but then figures out a seemingly battle changing outcome in what seemed like no time at all 1.Well what to do? It's already too late when Eugeo finally decides, she's already too injured by then. 2.Although there's lives inside,but now they are all no longer human, not even a single intelligence remains even if its Kirito or Alice, they would do the same and destroy all of them because they cannot be saved anymore. 3.Despair? He only despaired for 5 seconds after that he already recovered and resolved to find ways to fight rather than standing and dwell on his powerlessness, I'd say Kirito is the one that keep despairing along with Alice while Eugeo already searching for ways to retaliate when Cardinal is tortured, it is not a sudden epiphany. |
whiters99Mar 23, 2019 11:07 PM
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| Well, i don't even know what to say! But what an episode! So much happened...i can't even think about a way for Kirito to win. |
"There is no such thing as an Anime elitist. You watch Anime, therefore, you are trash by society's standards." |
Jaces_Sanctum said: for the LN readers, it rushed bcs they skipped so many important parts. for anime-only, it was slow because lot of talking and less action imoMattinator95 said: A-1 seems to being having fun rushing it That's really funny since a lot of other people are complaining about it being too slow. Is it really being rushed? |
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| Interesting.. I wonder how different it'd have been if Kirito has used Eugeo the Sword, as meta and weird as that sounds. You know maybe use him in some dual sword action cough my god that sounds so weird... fanfiction please don't commence Everyone in forums are saying how trash this fight was ... was I the only one overwhelmed even though I knew it was all coming? Although OG_Gattsu said: you're right. Totally felt forced, but I guess it was a reminder that Asuna still exists in this show lol. Also, my guess is like maybe after Kirito leaves this world, they'll find Eugeo's existence on some USB drive lol -oror... they do a system wipe and maybe can open a previous memory backup and just pull Eugeo out before he dies. So much talking in the 1/3 that could have been shorten. Cardinal’s death was pointless considering Administrator proceeded to kill the three anyway. It feels as though the writer wrote her out because she was too OP and didn’t know to solve the issue and make Kirito be the OP stu in the final fight. I doubt Euego is dead. He’s probably still alive with the ice holding his parts together or some shit. I wish he did die though because it cheapens his sacrifice. Kirito giving up like that was very forced and out of character. It could have been executed better Also rip, Administrator's promise not to hurt best boii. All she does is hurt him :[ |
KaguyachinchinMar 23, 2019 11:44 PM
kiza1379 said: I don't really get the sword golem thing. Is it that it was created using 300 human/fluctlight as subject that is dear to those first 30 Integrity Knights? Basically in average 10 from each Integrity Knights? Or am I missing something here? Yes. The single crystal Eugeo destroyed is a device that connects the consciousness of 30 knights' stolen fragments to the swords. The swords are made of all the relatives and friends that the 30 knights knew. Only Alice and Eldrie's relatives were spared because they were recently appointed. |
| WTF was that shit? first cardinal sacrificed her life to save those 3! and Kirito just stayed there and didn't do anything? really? and whats next? how could they save the world without fighting administrator? what was fucking logic behind that? and right afterward Eugio turn himself to sword and dies and kirto starts fighting Administrator what was the fucking point of her death? AMAZING story writing 11/10 LUL |
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kiza1379 said: Chrome_Falcon said: Yes. The single crystal Eugeo destroyed is a device that connects the consciousness of 30 knights' stolen fragments to the swords. The swords are made of all the relatives and friends that the 30 knights knew. Only Alice and Eldrie's relatives were spared because they were recently appointed. Thanks for the explanation man. Well tbh isn't it actually 301 subjects? Since cardinal "killed" it when she enter the battlefield. And Eugeo literally killed some if not all of them because there's a scene showed that some of the swords cracked when Eugeo's sword form broke in half. Cardinal's attack only stunned the golem. Eugeo destroyed the crystal that was the golem's heart. Eugeo's sword cracked when destroying Quinella's sword. It is not a part of sword golem. |
| lol the decisions they took didn't make sense whatsoever. Cardinal and Eugeo died and Alice almost did as well, just so Kirito can wake up. This is just as nonsensical as the decisions that were taken in The Price of Smiles. |
Mambic said: i understand what do you mean, and i agree with you. anime-only totally confused and of course they will shitting this episode (or even the entire season). the anime supposed to deliver every interesting parts of a source as well making it good so the watchers would buy the source because not everyone wants to read the LN if the adaptation is bad. this is just bad adaptation, and i dont blame the anime-only if they make bad reviews for thisI have not read the LN, so my opinion is only based on what I've seen in the anime. This episode is a complete garbage ... Cardinal making Quinella promise not to attack them is irrational, someone clarified that in the NL they explain why he can not break that promise, but I do not remember explaining that at any time in the anime, which makes that scene completely pointless. Eugeo's action to kill the Golem is understandable,but the way he came to conlcussion and become a sword is laughable, a longer monologue would have served to understand how to reach that conclusion. The readers of the LN will say that they explain it there, but not what is seen in the anime is that Eugeo out of nowhere has an epiphany and booom is a sword, even the time it takes to ask Cardinal to make him a sword while Quinella is there doing nothing is .... cheap. For me, this episode along with a few others is only a sign of bad writing, making the death of Eugeo and Cardinal cheap and not so shocking if the moment / actions had been better explained. I only watch the anime, I do not read the LN, so arguments where they say that in the NL they explain better do not help in my case. |
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| Disappointing episode, to say the least. Cardinal backing off like that without even a fight was just pure stupidity. Heck, she even said she could trap the Sword Golem and take away half of Adminstrator’s life but she decided to forfeit that to protect the three behind. I get that but I still can’t help but feel her decision making in this case was just ludicrous, basically. As if making it 300 v 3 instead of 300 v 4 would ever benefit them even in the long future to come. Another bewildering matter was Quinella accepting the deal, surely she would’ve emerged victorious had she been a lot more cautious and dragged the battle on, right? Quinella thrashing and revealing all her dark experimentations once again is just sickening and absurd, in a good way actually as it just raises the stakes of the fight much higher. What’s with the wiping out half of the population by the way? Was she influenced by Thanos xD? Better take her down quick or you’ll see the population voom down to half in no time, Cardinal should’ve thought about that too. Finally, we got to know of the mysterious ceiling and it totally delivered! Heck, I never would’ve imagined it’d be the Imperial Knights’ memories just put on display like that. Cardinal’s final words were sad but sadly it didn’t budge too much for some reason. I mean, I did feel bad how she was thrashed and that shot of the remains of her foot but I couldn’t help but feel as though we didn’t get to see enough of her to feel too sad. Maybe it was perhaps due to the episode being too rushed and all, but that’s just how I felt. And then there was the whole inconclusive Eugeo and old Alice merging to form the sword and even going as far as to taking down the Sword Golem so easily like that. Sure the Sword Golem had a very open and obvious weak point but it just felt a little too convenient how the Sword just effectively managed to squeeze in between the two limbs(or blades) and take down its core. By the way Alice can’t possible get her memories back now, can she? What exactly was Eugeo thinking? Surely he knew he would’ve died fighting Quinella, no? Well, that aside, I have to say that shot of Eugeo half-torn was crippling, this totally hit. We almost got to see Alice in the same condition too but good thing Kirito’s back up. But how will he take her down will be very interesting in next weeks’ episode finale! With all this said though, I’m still looking forward to the finale episode. I was, in fact, thinking of moving my score of this Season to a generous 8 but this episode just solidifies it as a 7. |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni  |
| pretty much all is done and dealt with.... eugeo is dead or supposedly dead.... still how many episodes will this continue |
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| What a fantastic episode, I haven't laughed so damn hard at an anime since Mayoiga, the ridiculous plot and how it tries to take itself seriously really does place SAO:A as one of the finest comedy anime of the last few years - I particularly loved the part where we find out that the ceiling is made of people's memory crystals, truly a fine construction material. I just had to indulge myself and put together a small gallery summary of this episode: |
Chrome_Falcon said: herrickluk said: Again, my issue was not that. I understand she can't attack hhumans. It was EUGEO. He shouldn't have made that call to attack that sword golem since there are real lives inside of it. Him destroying it should not have been his choice to make alone. I will clarify this point to you. But I want to say in the begining that my intention is only to make you understand why and not to make you suddenly like SAO when you disliked it from the start. So hopefully you don't drag the discussion. Quinella stated that she will create many more of these sword golems by converting half of the human population. If Eugeo didn't make that call, surely it would have come to pass. Eugeo killing the sword golem was lesser of the two evils. It was quite realistic that he would take that decision. They even showed his monologue to explain why he took that decision. The other possible outcomes are - 1) Eugeo saying I don't want to kill 300 people and giving up. I think that is more unrealistic. This troupe is used many anime, however. 2) Eugeo discussing whether he should kill it or not with Kirito and Alice while cardinal is about to die at any moment and lose his opportunity to become a sword. Lets be honest here. If he actually discussed it with them in the middle of the fight, you would have just complained about it too. I think a lot of other complaints you have are because of a lack of understanding the characters and setting. But because how long it took for me to write explanation for this one point, I am not going to bother with any other complaints you have. If you don't like the anime, that is your loss, not mine. That’s the first perfectly valid argument I’ve seen , thanks for your contribution . For my reply , I would like to reiterate that him deciding the lesser of too evils , ie. choosing to sacrifice the little to save the many is not his choice to make . It could be seen as the morally sound , but it’s certainly not his decision alone . When lives are at stake, decisions deserve more deliberation ,especially since lives are equal regardless of their amount . I can think of scenarios where this outcome would be desired , but anyways that’s my opinion whiters99 said: herrickluk said: 1) interesting, so they omitted that part from the anime im guessing. Still I don't think Cardinal dying was the best course of action 2) Again, my issue was not that. I understand she can't attack hhumans. It was EUGEO. He shouldn't have made that call to attack that sword golem since there are real lives inside of it. Him destroying it should not have been his choice to make alone. 3) I didn't buy his epiphany seeing as he was in the pits of despair 30 seconds prior, but then figures out a seemingly battle changing outcome in what seemed like no time at all 1.Well what to do? It's already too late when Eugeo finally decides, she's already too injured by then. 2.Although there's lives inside,but now they are all no longer human, not even a single intelligence remains even if its Kirito or Alice, they would do the same and destroy all of them because they cannot be saved anymore. 3.Despair? He only despaired for 5 seconds after that he already recovered and resolved to find ways to fight rather than standing and dwell on his powerlessness, I'd say Kirito is the one that keep despairing along with Alice while Eugeo already searching for ways to retaliate when Cardinal is tortured, it is not a sudden epiphany. 1) that’s the point I was trying to make . She only got injured because she essentially gave up for all of them because she her mentality was they would all die anyways . I don’t accept that kind of mentality 2) That’s a bit convenient to say , human lives are still lives . If you’re going by that logic , none of the lives should matter since they are all AI. But yet they do to Kirito, Alice etc . It’s not a quick decision . 3) that’s my issue . Is it realistic to despair for 5 seconds , then moments later have the resolve to come up with an entirely game changing scenario . I think no Windman said: try living for 200 years trapped alone in a room unable to do anything and then be finally faced with your archnemesis only to realize you are not able to harm them. Yeah anyone would want to just give up and die at that point and Cardinal did the best she could to ensure her sacrifice/rest could at least let the other 3 go free. It doesn’t add up for me . She spent so much time in her room, coming up with scenarios . For sure she also came up with the scenario where nothing works out. If she was planning to go into a fight not at least with that expectation , then that’s flawed thinking . As I said , her thinking sacrificing herself was going to HELP THEM escape was imo not ideal, since it forced Eugeo’s hand so he has to kill the Golem Nou-Tan said: herrickluk said: That's the dumbest thing I've heard today, 'make your own anime' I don't drop anime that I've already invested time into watching. Keep it to myself? The point of a forum is for discussion, if you want to be a whiny gatekeeper everytime a person criticizes your favourite anime..... here's a thought . Keep it to yourself. Boom. You are wasting more time by arguing for no reason Seriously there is no point of criticizing animes anyway , and such arguments won't make anyone feel good or change their opinions That may be true and I agree. But at this point it’s already happening . Thanks for your response |
BarnaldMar 24, 2019 7:00 AM
Thread Cleaned. Please refrain from arguing in the thread as it will only result in derailment and flame. As a reminder, remember that double posting is frowned upon. Please edit your previous post instead. |
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| Whoa 2 death flags........now it's up to Kirito. |
Mambic said: Cardinal making Quinella promise not to attack them is irrational, someone clarified that in the NL they explain why he can not break that promise, but I do not remember explaining that at any time in the anime, which makes that scene completely pointless. I only watch the anime, I do not read the LN, so arguments where they say that in the NL they explain better do not help in my case. They established in the anime that the seal of the right eye prevents anyone from breaking rules. A promise to self is similiar to a self directed rule. So she can't break it. It is not from LN. |
| Not sad Eugeo is dead. Fuck that Kirito wannabe. Also, it didn't feel in character to me for Kirito to just stand there and watch while Cardinal got her ass fucking handed to her. I know he made a move to intervene and she told him not to, but Kirito is not one to just stand around and watch a friend die no matter what they fucking say. Finally the only fight that matters next week. Don't let me down. |
| I'm pretty upset that Eugeo died, I wanted him to live on with Alice :( |
Uruz7Laevatein said: That was Quinella's plan was to lure out Cardinal by toying with the the three on the verge of death. The fight itself wasn't 300 pages but rather the entire volume of Volume 14 is. Most of the pages of light novel volume was simply pages and pages of internal monologue of the characters thoughts at that very moment of combat albeit the "actual combat" in real time goes over a split second. There has never been a practical way to convey hundreds of pages of character monologues that goes over the characters minds in the duration of a few seconds in "real time" be it in "lore" or "animation" without dragging out a very "heated but short" scene into a 100-200 episode anime in which alot of the episodes are the characters thoughts/flashbacks (like Naruto/DBZ), while the present event (the combat) is conveyed very slow motion. Thanks for explaining what Quinellas plan was, I must have missed it the 3 times the characters explained it in the anime. So considering the fight in the book was also just a few seconds, how can you even have so much monologue that you fill the entire volume with it? I cant really see how that would work, unless they go with flashbacks |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| That was probably the worst episode so far |
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| It's official, SAO has completely jumped the shark. This wasn't just the worse episode of this disappointing Alicization arc, but also the worst episode of all of SAO. Stupid, contrived developments in amidst lots of pointless expositing and philosophising that as usual meant nothing. Let's be real, we all know full well that everyone will be revived with some BS deus-ex machina in the next episode (only after 15 minutes of talking and static action, though), so why should we care? I'm glad there's only one more episode of this cour to suffer through, as I can't stand any more of this dreadful arc. |
| Posts 77 and 78 merged from an Anime Discussion thread |
Take care of yourself |
| I forgot characters could die in SAO, so Cardinal's death shocked me. I had been worried sick because of the opening that showed Eugeo and Kirito separating. Well, I hope he is still alive. He is the only character I like in this anime. Eugeo kind of reminded me of Armin this episode; a physically weak guy who sacrificed himself for others. |
| I won't deny, how Cardinal died was a little on the frustrating side. I was hoping that she would unleash some of her attacks, but she didn't choose to do that. Instead, Quinella treated this move like a present as she destroyed Cardinal with ease. Her maniac laughing did make me want to punch her, though. This turn of events did make Eugeo's mind up and he combined his powers as well as Cardinal's remaining to become a sword himself. For a CGI-heavy fight between Eugeo and the Sword Golem, I thought it was really well done. With the golem defeated, Eugeo gave it his all against Quinella, but once again, Quinella's attack was stronger and she landed the killing blow on Eugeo. Alice trying to block Quinella's attack from Kirito did finally spark some life back in his brain and now he's the only person remaining from preventing Quinella's plan from becoming reality. I hope the next episode has a gripping battle, as this one, despite the slightly annoying way that Cardinal had to die, was still good. |
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