| Do you know of any titles that represent LGBT people in a non-exploitative way? Here's a list so far. Anime Yuri: -Akuma no Riddle -Aoi Hana + -Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon S -El Cazador de la Bruja -Harmony -Hibike! Euphonium -Loveless -Mai-HiME -Maria-sama ga Miteru -Noir -Onii-sama e... * -Sasameki Koto + -Shigofumi + -Shinsekai yori -Shoujo Kakumei Utena * -Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito Yaoi: -Doukyuusei + -Love Stage * -No.6 + -Shinsekai yori Trans / Non-Binary: -Hourou Musuko + -Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl -Tokyo Godfathers Manga Yuri: -Octave + Yaoi: -Doukyuusei + Trans / Non-Binary: -Claudine...! -Hourou Musuko + Asexuality -Ore Monogatari * has sexual violence + mature, realistic, or non-exploitative I'll add more to these lists at a later time. |
aikaflipSep 17, 2016 10:12 AM
| I'd add an asterisk next to Shoujo Kakumei Utena. Strong affection between females: Ga-Rei: Zero Kannazuki no Miko* Strong affection between males: Berserk* Gungrave Neon Genesis Evangelion |
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| Would series like Sakura Trick, Akuma no Riddle, Junjou Romantica, Sekaiichi Hatsukoi, etc. count as "strong affection between males/females"? Shin Sekai Yori should count as both. If Evangelion counts, then so should Mirai Nikki with Akise Aru who's directly inspired from Kaworu. The Yuri List might help. Knights of Sidonia and Aquarion Evol are the only other anime i can think of that cover trans/non-binary gender, but not too deep. |
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| I completely forgot about Izana from Knights of Sidonia. In fact, I kind of forgot that anime even existed though it was pretty good. Seems like no one really mentions it on the forums here. |
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| Hello Hello! Joined this club because I have a few suggestions as a yuri watcher :) Romantic or deeply affectionate relationships between females: El Cazador De La Bruja Loveless Mai Hime Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito Akuma no Riddle Maria-sama ga Miteru (maybe?) Romantic or deeply affectionate relationships with trans or non-binary: Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl Additionally... does exploitative imply anything sexual? I'm assuming you're are taking it to mean a realistic relationship (i.e. not for the fanservice), and in yuri, those tend to be pretty "light." Not sure if something like Candy Boy or Kuttsukiboshi (or even Strawberry Panic) can be included, but I want to make sure since there's a fine line. |
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BadMediaKarma said: Hello Hello! Joined this club because I have a few suggestions as a yuri watcher :) Welcome! Additionally... does exploitative imply anything sexual? Not entirely. By exploitative I meant a show that uses a gay person or couple for fan service or comic relief. But you can add whatever you want. |
aikaflip said: Not entirely. By exploitative I meant a show that uses a gay person or couple for fan service or comic relief. But you can add whatever you want. That's what I was thinking, but I feel like it can be hard to tell at times...I'm a little iffy about Kannazuki no Miko for that reason. Putting aside the whole "destined lovers from a past life" ending, you've basically got a seemingly heterosexual girl falling in love with her female rapist (or at least that's what I seem to remember, having not rewatched it in a few years). Felt a little suspicious for me, but whether or not that's "exploiting" Chikane's homosexuality, I can't say. |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
BadMediaKarma said: aikaflip said: Not entirely. By exploitative I meant a show that uses a gay person or couple for fan service or comic relief. But you can add whatever you want. That's what I was thinking, but I feel like it can be hard to tell at times...I'm a little iffy about Kannazuki no Miko for that reason. Putting aside the whole "destined lovers from a past life" ending, you've basically got a seemingly heterosexual girl falling in love with her female rapist (or at least that's what I seem to remember, having not rewatched it in a few years). Felt a little suspicious for me, but whether or not that's "exploiting" Chikane's homosexuality, I can't say. Kannazuki no Miko has been in my PTW list for awhile. I could probably watch it sometime next week and report back here on its content. EDIT: Finished Kannazuki no Miko. I'm getting too old for these kinds of shows... But yeah. It's basically Strawberry Panic as a sci-fi. There are several somewhat fan servicey shots of the female characters in their underwear, one of Studio Fantasia's hallmarks. And the rape, at episode 8, isn't shown in its entirety. |
aikaflipMar 22, 2015 2:46 AM
BadMediaKarma said: aikaflip said: Not entirely. By exploitative I meant a show that uses a gay person or couple for fan service or comic relief. But you can add whatever you want. That's what I was thinking, but I feel like it can be hard to tell at times...I'm a little iffy about Kannazuki no Miko for that reason. Putting aside the whole "destined lovers from a past life" ending, you've basically got a seemingly heterosexual girl falling in love with her female rapist (or at least that's what I seem to remember, having not rewatched it in a few years). Felt a little suspicious for me, but whether or not that's "exploiting" Chikane's homosexuality, I can't say. Himeko is bi, she loved Chikane before the rape; she just didn't fully embrace the feeling until Chikane confessed. I don't believe Chikane's sexuality was "exploited" in any way; |
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SaveTheAralSea said: I don't believe Chikane's sexuality was "exploited" in any way; Hmmm...I get that this was what they were going with as justification, but I still think there were other alternatives; Chikane could have killed someone close to Himeko, for example. I don't think that raping the girl you supposedly love is "easy"...or at least it shouldn't be. But that's where it becomes more about my views and less about the way in which the anime presents itself. A friend of mine would probably argue more strongly about this, but I don't really care whether or not it's included; just wanted to know how you all view it. Out of curiosity, what do you think of Strawberry Panic, SaveTheAralSea? |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| The rape is definitely a polarizing issue in Kannazuki no Miko. I interpreted it as hurting Chikane more than it hurt Himeko; after all, Himeko forgave her pretty easily (but it suits the way her personality was written). As for Strawberry Panic, I was really entertained by it and enjoyed most of it. I'm a Nagisa/Shizuma shipper, so the ending made me melt happy. I didn't care for certain aspects like Amane falling off her horse dramatically (seriously made me laugh out loud), Amane having a GPS horse, Hikari getting bullied, or the terrible ED (serious mood killer for that one flashback episode about Kaori). I watched SP before MariMite, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have liked SP as much if I watched MariMite first. I gave it a 7/10. I still need to watch Aoi Hana, gah! Is YamiBou worth watching? EDIT: omg yay another WIXOSS fan |
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| 1. WIXOSS is the shit 2. You really do need to watch Aoi Hana! I wasn't all that into Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito (?...too lazy to see if I spelled that right). Only the first and last 1-2 episodes have any yuri value IIRC but if the plot interests you, give it a shot (and considering that you liked a slow boiler like Maria-sama Ga Miteru, you might enjoy it?). Strawberry Panic is one of those series that I hate myself for eating up the way that I do. I just finished rewatching it with a friend and it made me realize just how ridiculous the plot is. The story takes place in a school, but we never once see the girls attend classes and when you think about it... what even is the etoile election???? What purpose does this serve??? Just...why???? Funny that you mention the horse scene, because my friend and I made fun of that, too. One second she's riding her horse and the next, her ankle spontaneously twists back about an inch and she falls off her horse in slow motion. That being said, I was in it for AmanexHikari and for that, SP served its purpose. The Prince of Spica has won my heart~ I would recommend checking out the light novels (they're English translated). It's a little cringeworthy at first, but you can't help but get sucked in. |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| WIXOSS is so underrated. There needs to be more anime full of angst and despair like it. The Etoile election is a popularity contest. :D Strawberry Panic is stupid but I can't help but enjoy it. |
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| I must admit, Devil Lady, despite having fanservice, wans't very exploitive. It's focus is more on the psychological aspects of the relationships rather than lesbianism itself. Similarly to Noir. The obsessive nature Chloe had towards Kirika is more of a focus than, "Chloe likes girls". Jun and Lan had some sexual desire for one another, and their feelings are very much left ambiguous. In Noir, the exact nature of what these girls mean to each other is very questionable. Of course, as a result of Lan's actions, nothing romantic could really happen. However, Devil Lady also has a more sweet and passionate relationship involving Jun and Kazami A good one that's not yuri, but still very affectionate wouild be the Aria series. SaveTheAralSea said: Strong affection between males: Berserk* Gungrave Neon Genesis Evangelion I'll be honest. I disagree about NGE. At least to the point where it's nothing gay in my books. Knowing shinji, I think if the same thing that happened to Kowaru happened to ANY other character he knew, he'd still react the same |
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| Yeah, I don't see what happened between Shinji and Kowaru as gay. And most of the people who do tend to be yaoi fangirls anyway lol |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| I don't consider Shinji and Kaworu gay, just thought there was subtext. A little one-sided though, I felt that Shinji was legitimately attracted to Kaworu both emotionally and physically. Speaking of yaoi fangirls, I saw a girl the other week with tattoo on her arm that read "yaoi" in katakana, in a heart. Oh my. |
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SaveTheAralSea said: Speaking of yaoi fangirls, I saw a girl the other week with tattoo on her arm that read "yaoi" in katakana, in a heart. Oh my. That's just beautiful. |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| The Aria series has some pretty strong yuri subtext. I just posted a half-assed review for it. |
| Sailor Moon has LGBT representation. Lesbian representation: Haruka (Sailor Uranus) and Michiru (Sailor Neptune) Sailor Star Fighter and Sailor Moon Gay representation (classic anime only): Kunzite and Zoisite Fisheye The last season, Sailor Moon: Sailor Stars has three main characters that literally change genders as they transform into their senshi form. On Earth, they're sexy guys. But oh wait, they turn into sexy females! See for yourself:  In the manga they just cross dress though. But they really do interchange between both genders in the anime. |
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| - Cardcaptor Sakura: for the best boys' couple - Yukito and Touya - and much more, even though Tomoyo's mom totally seems designed for comedic purposes; - SAO II: for Yuuki in Mother's Rosario; - 07-Ghost: for Teiro and Mikage's literally undying friendship; - Shingeki no Kyojin: it has gender ambiguous Hange, but I fear official couple Ymir and Krista fall too much inside the butch-femme stereotype; - Nakedyouth: see for yourselves; - Ouran High: Haruhi is mostly gender neutral; - Ai no Kusabi*: ... yeah, this one is particularly hard, since the whole setting seems based on exploitation, but I'd like to make a case for it: - Madoka franchise and Yuri Kuma Arashi are nigh impossible to define as "exploitative" or "non-exploitative", and, to a lesser extent, so is "Penguindrum". It would also be nice for we to have a list with the arguably worst examples of gay representation (Maria Holic, Sakura Trick, Himegoto, KLK, Fake, Psycho-Pass, Steins;Gate, etc) and notoriously assexual characters (if anyone can dig up someone besides Light Yagami :p). |
alkchf said: - Cardcaptor Sakura: for the best boys' couple - Yukito and Touya - and much more, even though Tomoyo's mom totally seems designed for comedic purposes; - SAO II: for Yuuki in Mother's Rosario; - 07-Ghost: for Teiro and Mikage's literally undying friendship; - Shingeki no Kyojin: it has gender ambiguous Hange, but I fear official couple Ymir and Krista fall too much inside the butch-femme stereotype; - Nakedyouth: see for yourselves; - Ouran High: Haruhi is mostly gender neutral; - Ai no Kusabi*: ... yeah, this one is particularly hard, since the whole setting seems based on exploitation, but I'd like to make a case for it: - Madoka franchise and Yuri Kuma Arashi are nigh impossible to define as "exploitative" or "non-exploitative", and, to a lesser extent, so is "Penguindrum". It would also be nice for we to have a list with the arguably worst examples of gay representation (Maria Holic, Sakura Trick, Himegoto, KLK, Fake, Psycho-Pass, Steins;Gate, etc) and notoriously assexual characters (if anyone can dig up someone besides Light Yagami :p). What was wrong with Steins;gate? |
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silversongwriter said: alkchf said: - Cardcaptor Sakura: for the best boys' couple - Yukito and Touya - and much more, even though Tomoyo's mom totally seems designed for comedic purposes; - SAO II: for Yuuki in Mother's Rosario; - 07-Ghost: for Teiro and Mikage's literally undying friendship; - Shingeki no Kyojin: it has gender ambiguous Hange, but I fear official couple Ymir and Krista fall too much inside the butch-femme stereotype; - Nakedyouth: see for yourselves; - Ouran High: Haruhi is mostly gender neutral; - Ai no Kusabi*: ... yeah, this one is particularly hard, since the whole setting seems based on exploitation, but I'd like to make a case for it: - Madoka franchise and Yuri Kuma Arashi are nigh impossible to define as "exploitative" or "non-exploitative", and, to a lesser extent, so is "Penguindrum". It would also be nice for we to have a list with the arguably worst examples of gay representation (Maria Holic, Sakura Trick, Himegoto, KLK, Fake, Psycho-Pass, Steins;Gate, etc) and notoriously assexual characters (if anyone can dig up someone besides Light Yagami :p). What was wrong with Steins;gate? Maybe he was referring to Ruka? Lol. |
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SaveTheAralSea said: Maybe he was referring to Ruka? Lol. I know that, I just don't see how it's a problem |
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| His character arc revolves entirely around the awkwardness of him - - wanting to and eventually going on a date with Okabe. And that's it. Even Faris and Moeka had more chacterisation. Ruka is second-only to Daru in "less-explored relevant character" in S;G |
baconpureeMay 31, 2015 1:03 PM
| Woah, I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. I've seen SAO II and SnK and read Ouran, and I don't think any of these have official LGBT characters. I wasn't aware that Ymir and Krista were an "official couple" either lol Don't want to sound cynical, but I think this list should be a little more selective than including characters with "undying friendship" or ones who may be "mostly gender neutral." |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| Well, I guess you might've been a little left behind then :p Ymir and Krista's relationship status is Word of Gay by one of the anime's producers at a German anicon in mid-2014, so we're yet to see it on the product itself :) HorribleSubs's version of SAO II ep24 has: where Yuuki uses "daisuki", which is indeed too commonly used, so that one can't take more than "affection between females" from it. It's worth noting she uses the pronoun "boku" though, thereby not following standard notions of femininity of Japanese speech patterns. Lunar's Ouran High ep01 has: and if this isn't Non-Binary... There's always Haruhi's father - a big oversight, cause you can't get any more official LGBT than him xD - and Benibara too, though she seems designed for comedy. Also: got "gender neutral" from OP's "Non-Binary" and "undying friendship" from 2nd post "Strong affection between males/females", as it should've been obvious enough... Also2: Not to sound cynical, but I wonder why anyone would bother listing only genre-tagged, Wikipedia-listed examples. Trying to not be overly superficial and to think for yourself is quite healthy every once in a while ^^ |
| Hehe, I like this thread :) I joined this club for this thread xD But ehhhh, I think I would trim this list down a little bit. I think the problem is that it's often so difficult, especially from a Western perspective, to discern what is exploitative or not. I think in the West, just mentioning queer things is taboo, so queer people appearing at all in media that isn't porn-for-straight-people is really rare and therefore progressive. But I get the feeling that it's a little different in Japan... In Japan, there seems to be plenty of support for /fictional/ gay couples, but not so much support for /real/ gay couples. It's a genre of fantasy--yaoi, yuri--akin to incest or loli/shota: fun to read, but frowned on in real life. For example, Cardcaptor Sakura as mentioned above has a gay couple, Yukito and Touya, and Sakura's best friend Tomoyo definitely has a crush on her. But that series also has a romantic relationship between an elementary school student and her teacher (they even exchange promise rings in the manga). I wouldn't at all expect that latter example to be actually welcome in Japanese society, and I feel like the gay characters might be in the same boat. It's a fantasy trope rather than representation of real gay people. Even in yaoi/yuri manga, whose whole premise is gayness, there's typically an emphasis on making it Not Gay, often by having a masculine and feminine character act as "The Dude And The Chick" and having tropes like "I'm not really gay but my love for you has overcome gender" etc. Not really representation... On the gender spectrum, there also seems to be a big emphasis on gender not really being the issue in a crossdresser or trans person's presentation. For example, Haruhi's dad in Ouran Host Club says that his primary reason for crossdressing is that he can never love another woman after Haruhi's mom. So it's like equating his crossdressing with gayness rather than gender, as well as pulling gayness out of nowhere, like... I have yet to meet someone whose dead wife made them gay... Another example is Chihiro in Dangan Ronpa who crossdresses, but actually decides to man up and become honorable in a sense that's hard to translate, but nevertheless it completely takes gender out of the question. So in other words... I think seeing queer characters at all is refreshing for Western viewers (at least it is for me), but a lot of these examples exist more as a fantasy than as representation. At the very least, I'd like to know how Japanese queer people feel about them. |
alkchf said: Not to sound cynical, but I wonder why anyone would bother listing only genre-tagged, Wikipedia-listed examples. Trying to not be overly superficial and to think for yourself is quite healthy every once in a while ^^ This thread has been revised several times to fit an evolving criteria. rubbertreeplants said: Hehe, I like this thread :) I joined this club for this thread xD :D Welcome. I think the problem is that it's often so difficult, especially from a Western perspective, to discern what is exploitative or not. The criteria for the list in the OP is pretty straight forward. I'd like to list anime that features at least one character who is openly gay, lesbian, trans, or non-binary (genderqueer), who isn't fetishistized, and isn't merely in the story for comic relief; this is what I meant by non-exploitative. Of the anime I've seen, Aoi Hana and No.6 are probably the best in regards to non-exploitative LGBT representation. I still need to finish Utena, Noir, and a few others. In Japan, there seems to be plenty of support for /fictional/ gay couples, but not so much support for /real/ gay couples. It's a genre of fantasy--yaoi, yuri--akin to incest or loli/shota: fun to read, but frowned on in real life. Good point, but this could be seen as progress as well. Mere exposure to LGBT people and relationships can help normalize it. Even in yaoi/yuri manga, whose whole premise is gayness, there's typically an emphasis on making it Not Gay, often by having a masculine and feminine character act as "The Dude And The Chick" and having tropes like "I'm not really gay but my love for you has overcome gender" etc. Not really representation... In real life gay pairings, one person often is more masculine than the other. Not always, but often. I don't see this as really devaluing anything, but just emphasizing real life traits. And in some manga like Octave and Girl Friends, the main characters are very similar in their masculine and feminine qualities. Various types of representation are out there, but it's not always easy to find. |
| It's not exactly my place to say this, but I would say that for consistency, only titles where characters have been acknowledged—either in the medium or by its creators—to be LGBT should be included. I'm currently updating the OP to include a few titles that are more or less confirmed to fit their respective categories. |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
BadMediaKarma said: It's not exactly my place to say this, but I would say that for consistency, only titles where characters have been acknowledged—either in the medium or by its creators—to be LGBT should be included. I'm currently updating the OP to include a few titles that are more or less confirmed to fit their respective categories. That sounds good to me. I just went through and made a minor tweak to the post, removing the space between the dash and title to make things more visually consistent (and to satisfy my OCD). Does Hibike! Euphonium count as yuri though? I heard it was just yuri baiting, and nothing actually happens between the two female characters. |
aikaflip said: BadMediaKarma said: It's not exactly my place to say this, but I would say that for consistency, only titles where characters have been acknowledged—either in the medium or by its creators—to be LGBT should be included. I'm currently updating the OP to include a few titles that are more or less confirmed to fit their respective categories. That sounds good to me. I just went through and made a minor tweak to the post, removing the space between the dash and title to make things more visually consistent (and to satisfy my OCD). Does Hibike! Euphonium count as yuri though? I heard it was just yuri baiting, and nothing actually happens between the two female characters. I wouldn't say that Hibike! Euphonium is a yuri anime per se, but the relationship between Reina and Kumiko is confirmed on the official website, which really changes the viewer's interpretation of Reina's "confession of love." Edit: The actual wording on the site is "being attracted to one another," so not actually in a relationship, but still :P |
BadMediaKarmaApr 13, 2016 12:42 PM
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| Yuri A-Channel is about a main character who is in love with her (if I remember correctly) childhood friend who now goes to the same school as her. It's cute, innocent and plays in a realistic setting. Azumanga Daioh features a side character who has a severe crush on one of the main characters. It's a comedy anime so it might not get taken that serious but her character revolves very much around having a crush on said character and nothing else. Corpse Party Although it's a very gorey and unapologetic horror anime, it has a main character who is in love with another main character. This isn't part of a comedic relief and gets taken serious until the end. It's unrequited tho but confirmed. Devilman Lady is extremely obvious to me since I've watched it but sadly it might not make it into the list simply because they never stated that they were in love with eachother neither did they talk about their sexuality. But I watched it and I can vouch that their relationship is the most prominent thing in the anime and it is truly its driving core. And if standing naked in the ocean holding eachother isn't enough confirmation then I don't know. I thought their relationship was beautiful. Kanamemo has a confirmed couple that has their relationship out in the open. I watched this one years ago so I am not certain that there is no fanservice at all but from what I remember it was just a decent comedy anime with no exploitation. Jormungand includes a main character who is in love with the heroine and this is something acknowledged by the heroine. If she feels the same is unclear but she never rejects her in any way and they stay close through botch seasons, since this character is the heroine's right hand. It's also never forgotten throughout the series so I think it's a great example. Kantai Collection has a lot of ambitious yuri characters but there is only one that ever says she wants to confess to her peer. A second season is coming so there might be more confirmation there. Kill la Kill is a problematic example BUT Mako's and Ryuuko's relationship was real to me as soon as Ryuuko asked Mako on a date, despite a huge part of the community saying that they're just ''friends''. And their relationship is by far the most innocent aspect about Kill la Kill Michiko to Hatchin again a character that never outright stated she was not hetero nor confessed but imo, has one of the most impressive arcs I have ever seen that hits you out of nowhere and really spells out that she was i love with the main character all along. Psycho Pass has a couple that is together from the beginning, stays together and gets treated well. Yuyushiki now there are only hints and bits here and there but if my judgement doesn't betray me I'd say there is definitely going on between the main characters of this show. And with hints and bits I mean thrown in evidence every once in a while that isn't just wishful thinking. Trans/Nonbinary Persona 4 The Animation Naoto is nonbinary and has an entire arc devoted to exploring that. Gintama Kyuubei is also nonbinary and I can quote I'm not Juubei! Neither a man or a woman, I am... 10 minus 1 is... Yagyuu Kyuubei Kyuubei's also in love with Otae, a woman Kyuubei has known for years. Rose of Versailles I wasn't going to mention this since I have mixed feelings about Oscar. Oscar is born as a woman but raised as a man. Now the problem is this anime keeps changing the narrative so many times. Sometimes it's ''she'' and then it turns into ''he'' again and I feel like Oscar's identity is played with and adjusted to fit whatever the mangaka was trying to do. But I'd put Oscar on the list nonetheless. |
idk why I was here but I'm prob back to playing Hunt: Showdown 1896 again when you read this |
| Added a section for asexuality & included Ore Monogatari as the first entry. It just hit me that Suna is most definitely asexual :D |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| Tagged Doukyuusei with a + for "mature, realistic, or non-exploitative." It was great, arguably the best BL anime I've seen. |
Harmony is a pretty good dystopian sci-fi with a lesbian couple and high production values. Their relationship may or may not be a little fanservicey. Also, rape is used as a plot device. |
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