Nobunaga the Fool Episode 21 Discussion

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May 2014

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Good night, sweet prince and princess

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1401/64/1401641080238.jpg

There wasnt a happy ending but 2 people loved each other at the end

Jun 1, 2014 11:33 AM

#4

astranabeat

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Mar 2013

64

Now I'm certainly, who got death flag will die.

I don't want Himeko to die.

Jun 1, 2014 12:59 PM

#5

Resident

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Jan 2014

887

Don't know how I feel about Caesar's death.
But I'm kinda sad that Ichihime had to die with him.
Must've hit Mitsu and Nobu pretty hard.
However, I'm very satisfied now that those two brats are gone.

Jun 1, 2014 1:06 PM

#6

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May 2014

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ResidentANM said:
Don't know how I feel about Caesar's death.
But I'm kinda sad that Ichihime had to die with him.
Must've hit Mitsu and Nobu pretty hard.
However, I'm very satisfied now that those two brats are gone.

Ichihime died with the man she loved, she was happy, cant say the same for the others

The way she crawled to caesars body while calling his name right in front of Mitsu... I dunno whether to laugh or cry

Jun 1, 2014 1:13 PM

#7

Madara31

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Oct 2010

592

Quite an episode, I just really hope Himiko doesn't follow suit. It looks like Mitsuhide may go full on Akuma mode next episode.

Jun 1, 2014 1:20 PM

#8

removed-user

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The rumor about Nobunaga being the Destroyer-King is spreading.

Caesar and twins died.

I got a feeling that Mitsuhide will kill Nobunaga for sure.

Jun 1, 2014 1:30 PM

#9

zricecakez

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Jan 2012

151

Whyyyyy did they have to die D: was it really necessary? :(
Always hated those twisted twins, happy that they died :p
They were my favourite couple :( and caesar, yes him, was my favourite character! T^T
that was a really big shock D:

Jun 1, 2014 1:34 PM

#10

LittleStar

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Sep 2008

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The best couple...
My favorite characters...

No ;-;

⋆ other clubs ⋆

Jun 1, 2014 1:39 PM

#11

babymilo91

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May 2013

7106

What a sad episode. Poor Ichihime.

Jun 1, 2014 1:43 PM

#12

miwars

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Dec 2013

14

jfs said:
Ichihime died with the man she loved, she was happy, cant say the same for the others

The way she crawled to caesars body while calling his name right in front of Mitsu... I dunno whether to laugh or cry

I felt the same, I was smiling but there were tears in my eyes. They were my favourite couple.

"If anyone wishes to stop me, let them try. If there any whose dispair can match my own!" - Lelouch Lamperouge.

Jun 1, 2014 1:45 PM

#13

Kinaro

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May 2012

177

I thought Nobu was about to kill them both but they didn't die. Then they die anyway. Dafuq man.

Jun 1, 2014 2:06 PM

#14

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Jun 2014

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I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

Jun 1, 2014 2:17 PM

#15

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:
I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

Mitsuhide is a faggot he deserves all his suffering

And im happy caesar and ichi died together, they were both happy at the end

Seriously, what has Mitsu done for ichi? ep 17 reveals everything he does is because of his father, ichi is just an extra

And caesar killed nobus daddy in a fair fight and shingen was as good as dead

Compare mitsu to caesar, who sacrificed everything for her sake, including betraying his king, not to mention he is handsome charming and honest with his feelings.., not to mention the only reason mitsu was able to save ichi in ep 18 is because caesar saved his life and got caught (and brainwashed), see? caesar got brainwashed because he tried to save the guy he knew she liked, caesar is a noble and selfless person (well after he met ichi anyway)

Its not fair to say Ichi is frivolous, she was sheltered all her life and the only guys she knows are saru and mitsu, so when an almost perfect alpha male came in and did everything he can for you, ofc she would fall for him..

Not to mention she knew he was brainwashed and crazy by arthur, BUT even in that insanity all he does is still because he wants to protect her, you can see she was moved by this.. frankly its much more difficult to see how she WONT fall for him

Jun 1, 2014 2:19 PM

#16

K1NGST0N33

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Oct 2012

87

I didn't want Ichihime to die so I can't bring myself to like this episode. Fortunately, there are only 3 episodes left...

Jun 1, 2014 2:21 PM

#17

uran10

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Jan 2014

580

BaiHu27 said:
I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

+1

Well said! I never liked Caesar and I was pretty pissed when Ichi fell for the idiot as well. I'm hoping mitsu stays by nobu's side and doesn't follow the way history went and kills nobu. This episode proved to him that he should trust nobu so I hope he can reflect on that.

This episode proves one thing and one thing that we all probably know. Nobunaga is the savior king and King "fake Face" is the destroyer king. He plans to destroy everything to "save" people? I call BS!

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Jun 1, 2014 2:23 PM

#18

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:
I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

Mitsuhide is a faggot he deserves all his suffering

And im happy caesar and ichi died together, they were both happy at the end

Seriously, what has Mitsu done for ichi? ep 17 reveals everything he does is because of his father, ichi is just an extra

And caesar killed nobus daddy in a fair fight and shingen was as good as dead

Compare mitsu to caesar, who sacrificed everything for her sake, including betraying his king, not to mention he is handsome charming and honest with his feelings.., not to mention the only reason mitsu was able to save ichi in ep 18 is because caesar saved his life and got caught (and brainwashed), see? caesar got brainwashed because he tried to save the guy he knew she liked, caesar is a noble and selfless person (well after he met ichi anyway)

Its not fair to say Ichi is frivolous, she was sheltered all her life and the only guys she knows are saru and mitsu, so when an almost perfect alpha male came in and did everything he can for you, ofc she would fall for him..

Not to mention she knew he was brainwashed and crazy by arthur, BUT even in that insanity all he does is still because he wants to protect her, you can see she was moved by this.. frankly its much more difficult to see how she WONT fall for him

Like I said before, Mitsuhide saved her when he escaped from the West Star. And despite doing things for his father, he still did stuff for Nobunaga. Calling him a faggot seems quite derogatory. What did Caesar sacrifice? The guy blackmailed Nobunaga to give him Ichihime. And Shingen wasn't going to die if it wasn't for him. What about him is attractive and charming? He was arrogant all the way. And I'm sorry, but it seems pretty frivolous to me if you get attracted to a guy just because he gave you chocolate cake and despite the fact that he killed your father.

Jun 1, 2014 2:28 PM

#19

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Jun 2014

32

uran10 said:

BaiHu27 said:
I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

+1

Well said! I never liked Caesar and I was pretty pissed when Ichi fell for the idiot as well. I'm hoping mitsu stays by nobu's side and doesn't follow the way history went and kills nobu. This episode proved to him that he should trust nobu so I hope he can reflect on that.

This episode proves one thing and one thing that we all probably know. Nobunaga is the savior king and King "fake Face" is the destroyer king. He plans to destroy everything to "save" people? I call BS!

I think Mitsuhide learned his lesson to trust Nobunaga. I just hope Nobunaga hands Arthur a huge beat down.

Jun 1, 2014 2:30 PM

#20

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:
.

Mitsuhide is a faggot he deserves all his suffering

And im happy caesar and ichi died together, they were both happy at the end

Seriously, what has Mitsu done for ichi? ep 17 reveals everything he does is because of his father, ichi is just an extra, so he is a fag

And caesar killed nobus daddy in a fair fight and shingen was as good as dead

Compare mitsu to caesar, who sacrificed everything for her sake, including betraying his king, not to mention he is handsome charming and honest with his feelings.., not to mention the only reason mitsu was able to save ichi in ep 18 is because caesar saved his life and got caught (and brainwashed), see? caesar got brainwashed because he tried to save the guy he knew she liked, caesar is a noble and selfless person (well after he met ichi anyway)

Its not fair to say Ichi is frivolous, she was sheltered all her life and the only guys she knows are saru and mitsu, so when an almost perfect alpha male came in and did everything he can for you, ofc she would fall for him..

Not to mention she knew he was brainwashed and crazy by arthur, BUT even in that insanity all he does is still because he wants to protect her, you can see she was moved by this.. frankly its much more difficult to see how she WONT fall for him

Like I said before, Mitsuhide saved her when he escaped from the West Star. And despite doing things for his father, he still did stuff for Nobunaga. Calling him a faggot seems quite derogatory. What did Caesar sacrifice? The guy blackmailed Nobunaga to give him Ichihime. And Shingen wasn't going to die if it wasn't for him. What about him is attractive and charming? He was arrogant all the way. And I'm sorry, but it seems pretty frivolous to me if you get attracted to a guy just because he gave you chocolate cake and despite the fact that he killed your father.

And how did mitsu escape from the west? because caesar jumped off the boat to catch him when he fell down and as a result he got caught and brainwashed by arthur..

Caesar was an ambitious person who cared about his standing in the round table, it was shown many times, but he CHOSE to abandon all that and his loyalty to king arthur for his love,not to mention he clearly controls a territory and is ruler in his own right, yet he abandoned those for her, the choco cake was a bonus, its not the cake that made her fall for him, its how much he changed for her sake (rewatch ep 16 and 20 if you want to see how much caesars character has changed for the better), and what he did out of love for her (saving oda clan, saving nobu multiple times, and saving the guy she liked)

In just a few days he showed that he loved her more than mitsu ever could or will.. Mitsu in ep 17 is revealed to be obsessed with his father/daddy issues, while ever since ep 14, all caesar cares about is making her happy and even in his brainwashed state his only motivation is STILL to protect her..

Its obvious who deserves her love here...

jfsJun 1, 2014 2:36 PM

Jun 1, 2014 2:36 PM

#21

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3000

Fucking shit man, that was insane. This show doesn't fuck around with death flags, other than Hideyoshi. Bittersweet for you huh jfs?

Loved the intensity of the situation, the lack of belief in Nobu that Jeanne and Mitsu showed, and the truly poetic tragedy. I'm even okay with the reunion and the ship sailing only once it had sunk. Only thing I didn't like was how the whole thing was set up by Caesar basically being controlled by Arthur's influence, but oh well.

Hideyoshi being able to sense things with Himiko due to her time spent maintaining/healing him is definitely a red flag. The pv seems to show more development between the two. I doubt he'd fall for her, but I wouldn't count out the possibility of him turning on Nobu if he lets her die for him.

That's the biggest question left now as Mitsu's betrayal is pretty much set in stone.

Jun 1, 2014 2:37 PM

#22

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:
I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

Mitsuhide is a faggot he deserves all his suffering

And im happy caesar and ichi died together, they were both happy at the end

Seriously, what has Mitsu done for ichi? ep 17 reveals everything he does is because of his father, ichi is just an extra

And caesar killed nobus daddy in a fair fight and shingen was as good as dead

Compare mitsu to caesar, who sacrificed everything for her sake, including betraying his king, not to mention he is handsome charming and honest with his feelings.., not to mention the only reason mitsu was able to save ichi in ep 18 is because caesar saved his life and got caught (and brainwashed), see? caesar got brainwashed because he tried to save the guy he knew she liked, caesar is a noble and selfless person (well after he met ichi anyway)

Its not fair to say Ichi is frivolous, she was sheltered all her life and the only guys she knows are saru and mitsu, so when an almost perfect alpha male came in and did everything he can for you, ofc she would fall for him..

Not to mention she knew he was brainwashed and crazy by arthur, BUT even in that insanity all he does is still because he wants to protect her, you can see she was moved by this.. frankly its much more difficult to see how she WONT fall for him

Like I said before, Mitsuhide saved her when he escaped from the West Star. And despite doing things for his father, he still did stuff for Nobunaga. Calling him a faggot seems quite derogatory. What did Caesar sacrifice? The guy blackmailed Nobunaga to give him Ichihime. And Shingen wasn't going to die if it wasn't for him. What about him is attractive and charming? He was arrogant all the way. And I'm sorry, but it seems pretty frivolous to me if you get attracted to a guy just because he gave you chocolate cake and despite the fact that he killed your father.

And how did mitsu escape from the west? because caesar jumped off the boat to catch him when he fell down and as a result he got caught and brainwashed by arthur..

Caesar was an ambitious person who cared about his standing in the round table, it was shown many times, but he CHOSE to abandon all that and his loyalty to king arthur for his love, the choco cake was a bonus, its not the cake that made her fall for him, its how much he changed for her sake (rewatch ep 16 and 20 if you want to see how much caesars character has changed for the better), and what he did out of love for her (saving oda clan, saving nobu multiple times, and saving the guy she liked)

In just a few days he showed that he loved her more than mitsu ever could or will.. Mitsu in ep 17 is revealed to be obsessed with his father/daddy issues, while ever since ep 14, all caesar cares about is making her happy and even in his brainwashed state his only motivation is STILL to protect her..

Its obvious who deserves her love here...

Yeah, and its certainly not Caesar. I don't really see how Caesar loved her more than Mitsuhide. I saw Caesar's changes, but that didn't make up what he did before for me. But that's just me. I just don't understand how you can like a guy who killed your father, despite it being a fair fight. Understand that I am not undermining Caesar's efforts by any means. I just don't think he deserved Ichihime at all. His character just infuriated me the whole time he was on screen.

Jun 1, 2014 2:44 PM

#23

LunatikPriest

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Feb 2011

94

AlexTheRiot said:
Fucking shit man, that was insane. This show doesn't fuck around with death flags, other than Hideyoshi. Bittersweet for you huh jfs?

Loved the intensity of the situation, the lack of belief in Nobu that Jeanne and Mitsu showed, and the truly poetic tragedy. I'm even okay with the reunion and the ship sailing only once it had sunk.

Me too, I really liked this episode as a whole, very intense !
Only 3 episodes left. I can't wait..

Jun 1, 2014 2:55 PM

#24

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May 2014

386

AlexTheRiot said:
Fucking shit man, that was insane. This show doesn't fuck around with death flags, other than Hideyoshi. Bittersweet for you huh jfs?

Loved the intensity of the situation, the lack of belief in Nobu that Jeanne and Mitsu showed, and the truly poetic tragedy. I'm even okay with the reunion and the ship sailing only once it had sunk. Only thing I didn't like was how the whole thing was set up by Caesar basically being controlled by Arthur's influence, but oh well.

Hideyoshi being able to sense things with Himiko due to her time spent maintaining/healing him is definitely a red flag. The pv seems to show more development between the two. I doubt he'd fall for her, but I wouldn't count out the possibility of him turning on Nobu if he lets her die for him.

That's the biggest question left now as Mitsu's betrayal is pretty much set in stone.

Well yeah it was, i was convinced from the chara song that caesar and ichi would have a happy ending but i guess i shouldve known better, but if i were to choose how they died it would be dying together and both being happy, which at least happened...

Still im quite shocked because i was sure caesar would survive since they gave him so much plot armor with the dragon powerup, so i thought he would be a LITTLE harder to kill... but i guess that makes his death more shocking

BaiHu27 said:

Yeah, and its certainly not Caesar. I don't really see how Caesar loved her more than Mitsuhide. I saw Caesar's changes, but that didn't make up what he did before for me. But that's just me. I just don't understand how you can like a guy who killed your father, despite it being a fair fight. Understand that I am not undermining Caesar's efforts by any means. I just don't think he deserved Ichihime at all. His character just infuriated me the whole time he was on screen.

So a guy who secretly kills her brother and hides and lies about it from both her and nobu deserves her more? Funny thing is she never found that out yet she chose caesar anyway

Like i said, it was war, caesar was on arthurs side, its kill or be killed, the fact that he was an enemy and changed completely out of love for her is proof, and the fact that he was brainwashed and yet his motivation is still his love for her is another.. Nobu didnt hold a grudge and considers caesar an important ally so why should she?

Mitsu on the other hand is only loyal to nobu because of his daddy issues, and its not hard to fall for a princess who is said to be the most beautiful woman on the eastern planet.. its another thing to throw everything away for that love.. would mitsu abandon his daddy problems and the akechi clan thing just to be with her? clearly not, while caesar abandoned his ambitions and loyalties to arthur without a second thought

jfsJun 1, 2014 2:58 PM

Jun 1, 2014 2:57 PM

#25

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Aug 2012

3000

I wouldn't say one loved Ichi more than the other, or deserved her more than the other. Caesar chose love over honor, Mitsu chose honor over love(early on)She respected both approaches but because Mitsu couldn't let her be his light and threaten his sense of honor to Nobu, she was able to fall down and be caught by Caesar's bright hands of simple love. He was just the kind of person that could show her circumstances should mean nothing in the face of love, so she fell for him. I honestly still don't buy in to them because I think there could have been a little more shown to build up to her subtle change of heart(other than the scene where I think she said she was a horrible person unlike Nobu), but I can't deny the way it went down. Mitsu's biggest downside in this was his greatest upside in every other aspect, and now he's going to use Ichi's wisdom to find a middle ground and create his own path(of a demon)

Jun 1, 2014 3:03 PM

#26

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May 2014

386

AlexTheRiot said:
I wouldn't say one loved Ichi more than the other, or deserved her more than the other. Caesar chose love over honor, Mitsu chose honor over love(early on)She respected both approaches but because Mitsu couldn't let her be his light and threaten his sense of honor to Nobu, she was able to fall down and be caught by Caesar's bright hands of simple love. He was just the kind of person that could show her circumstances should mean nothing in the face of love, so she fell for him. I honestly still don't buy in to them because I think there could have been a little more shown to build up to her subtle change of heart(other than the scene where I think she said she was a horrible person unlike Nobu), but I can't deny the way it went down. Mitsu's biggest downside in this was his greatest upside in every other aspect, and now he's going to use Ichi's wisdom to find a middle ground and create his own path(of a demon)

Well as for who loves her more ....

brainwashed caesar : 'I must save you, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST, at least ONLY YOU, because I LOVE YOU with ALL MY SOUL!

can you imagine mitsu saying that about her? i cant

and nobu called it out too..

nobu: SO MUCH FOR YOUR EQUAL LOVE BS LMFAO

that said i agree caesar and ichi should have more interaction other than a couple of scenes in ep 14, that would make the tragic romance more believeable, but in caesars case, his actions speak louder than words

jfsJun 1, 2014 3:07 PM

Jun 1, 2014 3:10 PM

#27

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:

AlexTheRiot said:
I wouldn't say one loved Ichi more than the other, or deserved her more than the other. Caesar chose love over honor, Mitsu chose honor over love(early on)She respected both approaches but because Mitsu couldn't let her be his light and threaten his sense of honor to Nobu, she was able to fall down and be caught by Caesar's bright hands of simple love. He was just the kind of person that could show her circumstances should mean nothing in the face of love, so she fell for him. I honestly still don't buy in to them because I think there could have been a little more shown to build up to her subtle change of heart(other than the scene where I think she said she was a horrible person unlike Nobu), but I can't deny the way it went down. Mitsu's biggest downside in this was his greatest upside in every other aspect, and now he's going to use Ichi's wisdom to find a middle ground and create his own path(of a demon)

Well as for who loves her more ....

brainwashed caesar : 'I must save you, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST, at least ONLY YOU, because I LOVE YOU with ALL MY SOUL!

can you imagine mitsu saying that about her? i cant

and nobu called it out too..

nobu: SO MUCH FOR YOUR EQUAL LOVE BS LMFAO

that said i agree caesar and ichi should have more interaction other than a couple of scenes in ep 14, that would make the tragic romance more believeable, but in caesars case, his actions speak louder than words

AlexTheRiot said:
I wouldn't say one loved Ichi more than the other, or deserved her more than the other. Caesar chose love over honor, Mitsu chose honor over love(early on)She respected both approaches but because Mitsu couldn't let her be his light and threaten his sense of honor to Nobu, she was able to fall down and be caught by Caesar's bright hands of simple love. He was just the kind of person that could show her circumstances should mean nothing in the face of love, so she fell for him. I honestly still don't buy in to them because I think there could have been a little more shown to build up to her subtle change of heart(other than the scene where I think she said she was a horrible person unlike Nobu), but I can't deny the way it went down. Mitsu's biggest downside in this was his greatest upside in every other aspect, and now he's going to use Ichi's wisdom to find a middle ground and create his own path(of a demon)

I can agree with your assessment. Its more level-headed and less biased than my own view and jfs's.

Jun 1, 2014 3:13 PM

#28

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:
So a guy who secretly kills her brother and hides and lies about it from both her and nobu deserves her more? Funny thing is she never found that out yet she chose caesar anyway

Like i said, it was war, caesar was on arthurs side, its kill or be killed, the fact that he was an enemy and changed completely out of love for her is proof, and the fact that he was brainwashed and yet his motivation is still his love for her is another.. Nobu didnt hold a grudge and considers caesar an important ally so why should she?

Mitsu on the other hand is only loyal to nobu because of his daddy issues, and its not hard to fall for a princess who is said to be the most beautiful woman on the eastern planet.. its another thing to throw everything away for that love.. would mitsu abandon his daddy problems and the akechi clan thing just to be with her? clearly not, while caesar abandoned his ambitions and loyalties to arthur without a second thought

I think its pointless for us to continue this since we won't come to an agreement. You like Caesar while I like Mitsuhide. We'll leave it at that. So I'll ask this: What do you think will happen in the next episode?

Jun 1, 2014 3:13 PM

#29

SKYflare

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May 2014

129

well that was quite the upset to the series i think, both caesar and ichi die leaving nobu in despair even after saving caesar from the manipulation by arthur.

it was quite touching how ichi finally realizes her feelings for caesar and that moment when she crawled to him (prior death) and left mitsu hanging.

mitsu did love ichi but in a different way compared to caesar. he chose honor over love unlike caesar who devotes love before everything thats the only difference between them and why ichi fell for caesar.

over all was a good episode and now nobu is going to wreck havoc on the western star WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Jun 1, 2014 3:16 PM

#30

LunatikPriest

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Feb 2011

94

Now Nobunaga has Excalibur, he must be completely OP.

Jun 1, 2014 3:17 PM

#31

pulamidorie

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Jan 2014

16

They both died, who cares who she loved more, who cares which one of those 2 loved her more? the show goes on for another 3 episodes, just wanna see some good action in these last episodes, It's not like they were some MC or anything(at least nor for me), in this kind of anime death happens, so let's enjoy it as it is.

Jun 1, 2014 3:20 PM

#32

Grouchio

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Jun 2013

409

This series is going to have a Hamlet ending, isn't it?

Jun 1, 2014 3:25 PM

#33

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:

jfs said:
So a guy who secretly kills her brother and hides and lies about it from both her and nobu deserves her more? Funny thing is she never found that out yet she chose caesar anyway

Like i said, it was war, caesar was on arthurs side, its kill or be killed, the fact that he was an enemy and changed completely out of love for her is proof, and the fact that he was brainwashed and yet his motivation is still his love for her is another.. Nobu didnt hold a grudge and considers caesar an important ally so why should she?

Mitsu on the other hand is only loyal to nobu because of his daddy issues, and its not hard to fall for a princess who is said to be the most beautiful woman on the eastern planet.. its another thing to throw everything away for that love.. would mitsu abandon his daddy problems and the akechi clan thing just to be with her? clearly not, while caesar abandoned his ambitions and loyalties to arthur without a second thought

I think its pointless for us to continue this since we won't come to an agreement. You like Caesar while I like Mitsuhide. We'll leave it at that. So I'll ask this: What do you think will happen in the next episode?

Sure ill just say though its obvious who is willing to do anything for her and who isnt...

Well the next episode is titled the devil, and preview has mitsu wearing his oni (demon mask), time to fulfill his historical role? but i dont think it will be that simple...

I always felt that Mitsu will join arthurs side, and excalibur needs a new user now, and arthur said all you need to get its power is to desire 'true salvation' so imo mitsu will fail to kill nobu but join arthur and be excaliburs new user, thats what im thinking anyway..seems like the perfect weapon for mitsu who repeatedly bemoaned that he cant use the regalias, and now its user is conveniently just dead

@skyflare, i think she fell for him before that, in ep 18 in fact, in this ep she cried when she said 'i see that the caesar i knew no longer exists' so i think she already had feelings for him

jfsJun 1, 2014 3:31 PM

Jun 1, 2014 3:38 PM

#34

astranabeat

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Mar 2013

64

BaiHu27 said:
I'm like the only one who's glad that Caesar and Ichihime are dead. I always hated Caesar for how he killed Nobunaga's father and then killed Shingen in a cowardly manner. And then he pulled a deus ex machina win on Nobunaga that made no sense. He will remain a scumbag in my memory. And Ichihime is so frivolous, she switched her affections from Mitsuhide to Caesar just because he gave her chocolate cake. Stupidest reasoning right there. (I'm exaggerating I know)

The one I felt most sorry for was Mitsuhide. He dirtied his hands for Nobunaga, and to ensure Ichihime's safey, but lost her to some white-haired prick who thinks he's all that, gets belittled because he doesn't have a regalia, and saves Ichihime who STILL pines for Caesar. And now when he and her are dying, she STILL crawls to his corpse in front of Mitsuhide. That is the worst kind of thing that could happen to Mitsuhide. Note that this is my opinion of the characters, and that I am not saying that I am right in any way.

+1
you took the words right out of my mouth, every words.

Now no more restrain for Mitsuhide. time to enjoy the betrayal.

Jun 1, 2014 3:41 PM

#35

EratiK

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Apr 2012

4896

Hahaha, what did I just watched?

Grouchio said:
This series is going to have a Hamlet ending, isn't it?

Well Nobunaga felt kind of doomed from the start, like his historical counterpart. But at least the Star of Denmark will be saved.

Also Ichihime just sent Mitsu on a track for duty, I don't believe he'll derail now.

Jun 1, 2014 4:04 PM

#36

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May 2014

386

BTW arent people who is saying Ichi falling for caesar due to him killing her father is wrong/unrealistic.. well i guess its less unrealistic than the Last Samurai movie (girl falling for guy who killed her husband)

Its a normal premise for a love tragedy (as dumb as it can be)

Jun 1, 2014 4:17 PM

#37

astranabeat

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Mar 2013

64

jfs said:
BTW arent people who is saying Ichi falling for caesar due to him killing her father is wrong/unrealistic.. well i guess its less unrealistic than the Last Samurai movie (girl falling for guy who killed her husband)

Its a normal premise for a love tragedy (as dumb as it can be)

I don't think it doesn't have any time skip like 1 week or 1 month in Nobunaga the fool start from when their married to their dead. So I think the time from married to the time of dead was 1 month or less. yeah, she can love other guy in 1 month.

If my memories correct .( I watch this movie an age ago) In last samurai I think the time they spent together was around 6 month or more. it possible when they live together that long.

Jun 1, 2014 4:22 PM

#38

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May 2014

386

astranabeat said:

jfs said:
BTW arent people who is saying Ichi falling for caesar due to him killing her father is wrong/unrealistic.. well i guess its less unrealistic than the Last Samurai movie (girl falling for guy who killed her husband)

Its a normal premise for a love tragedy (as dumb as it can be)

I don't think it doesn't have any time skip like 1 week or 1 month in Nobunaga the fool start from when their married to their dead. So I think the time from married to the time of dead was 1 month or less. yeah, she can love other guy in 1 month.

If my memories correct .( I watch this movie an age ago) In last samurai I think the time they spent together was around 6 month or more. it possible when they live together that long.

Yeah well tom cruises character wasnt assertive like caesar though, so it was a slow buildup in the last samurai, in this show caesar just go like.. boom hi i love you heres a choco cake to prove it, hm? what? betray my king for you? sure no problem..

Jun 1, 2014 4:37 PM

#39

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Aug 2012

3000

Grouchio said:
This series is going to have a Hamlet ending, isn't it?

YES.

EratiK said:

Also Ichihime just sent Mitsu on a track for duty, I don't believe he'll derail now.

I dunno, she's talked a lot about "creating your own path" and even mentioned that dominion could be anyone's fate. I think he'll take her wisdom as resolve to accept and follow his true will. Though I'd love for him to fool us all and stay by Nobu's side, along with Saru. Eff history, that'd be a damn satisfying ending.

jfs said:
BTW arent people who is saying Ichi falling for caesar due to him killing her father is wrong/unrealistic.. well i guess its less unrealistic than the Last Samurai movie (girl falling for guy who killed her husband)

Its a normal premise for a love tragedy (as dumb as it can be)

One idiot in particular kept saying that in every discussion thread before dropping, calling her a slut with no honor and love for her family..Granted this was around ep12 and was strictly in reference to her marrying Caesar, which was dumb in its own right as she was obviously doing it for the clan. Now he'd have more of a case lol, but I'd give the same argument I did to him to anyone that says that about her at this point-her strength back then was that she could look past her own desires and feelings to do what what was best for the clan. She proved her honor to her family then. Now that she's done something so huge for her people, she has room to be a little more selfish and follow her own path. She couldn't support Mitsu the way she wanted, so she ended up supporting the husband she's now spent time with and better understands. When he starts to show continuously growing affection for her, her heart swayed towards him, given a chance to support someone the way she wanted to support Mitsu.

Again, her ability to love and support the man she's supposed to hate, all because he gave her a new path to follow, is a testament to her strength. It's just on a personal level this time, but it applies nonetheless. She did beat herself up about this, but her strength to look past all the circumstances allowed her to follow her own path.

jfs said:

in this show caesar just go like.. boom hi i love you heres a choco cake to prove it, hm? what? betray my king for you? sure no problem..

I couldn't help but read that in a really ridiculous voice, I must apologize to Caesar.

AlexTheRiotJun 1, 2014 4:41 PM

Jun 1, 2014 5:03 PM

#40

Sol_Ou

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Jun 2012

2593

Wow and here I thought those twins were prototype perfectas. I guess I was wrong.

Well it looks like Mitsu will betray Nobu next ep and Hideyoshi may even steal Nobu's waifu.

You want to throw down?

Jun 1, 2014 5:15 PM

#41

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May 2014

386

AlexTheRiot said:

jfs said:

in this show caesar just go like.. boom hi i love you heres a choco cake to prove it, hm? what? betray my king for you? sure no problem..

I couldn't help but read that in a really ridiculous voice, I must apologize to Caesar.

Well i must say that saying that Ichi supported caesar doesnt fit.. i mean before this ep the last time they met was in ep 14 and she was telling him to go off and help her bro, shes not done anything to support him, even this ep she was mostly trying to stop him or argue with him

I think the reason she fell for him after seeing how much he loves her, even when he is trying to destroy the oda castle in his madness, he was still doing it for her, and she knew that, and that epic declaration of love tops it all off

In the end though, for whatever reason, both of them found their true love and she was happy in the end, even before he was dying they were clearly about to kiss before they were attacked, it was just like the moment both were about to officially confirm their love for each other, tragedy struck

Jun 1, 2014 5:32 PM

#42

Vooo

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Jan 2013

1361

Need to have faith in the right person...Nobu always proves himself but they still don't believe.

Ranamru needs to go.

Jun 1, 2014 5:42 PM

#43

pp813

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Feb 2013

540

That ending....

Kind of expected it tbh , but that was so sad ToT

Jun 1, 2014 6:10 PM

#44

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Aug 2012

3000

jfs said:

Well i must say that saying that Ichi supported caesar doesnt fit.. i mean before this ep the last time they met was in ep 14 and she was telling him to go off and help her bro, shes not done anything to support him, even this ep she was mostly trying to stop him or argue with him

You're right, I worded it that way cause it was an easy tie in to what I was getting at. I should say she realized that he was someone that COULD accept her support and love regardless of circumstances, in the way that Mitsu couldn't. I think that's why she was able to end up reciprocating his feelings so quickly, even if she hadn't accepted those feelings yet.

Jun 1, 2014 6:23 PM

#45

xchee

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Aug 2013

4759

Caesar and Ichi are dead but to be honest, I felt nothing. There wasn't enough interaction between them to actually make me say "wow they're in love." No amount of "I'm now a good guy" act by Caesar will erase his scumbaggery with killing Nobu and Ichi's father and backstabbing Shingen. And while his declaration of love in the final moments was "okay," how did they even arrive to that?

1. Threaten Nobu with annihilation if he doesn't give Ichi.
2. Give chocolate cake.
3. ???
4. Declaration of love.

I just feel so sorry for Ichi she got caught up in all of this :/

"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness."

"May those who defy their fate be granted glory."

Jun 1, 2014 6:36 PM

#46

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May 2014

386

AlexTheRiot said:

jfs said:

Well i must say that saying that Ichi supported caesar doesnt fit.. i mean before this ep the last time they met was in ep 14 and she was telling him to go off and help her bro, shes not done anything to support him, even this ep she was mostly trying to stop him or argue with him

You're right, I worded it that way cause it was an easy tie in to what I was getting at. I should say she realized that he was someone that COULD accept her support and love regardless of circumstances, in the way that Mitsu couldn't. I think that's why she was able to end up reciprocating his feelings so quickly, even if she hadn't accepted those feelings yet.

It wouldve been interesting to see them survive until the last episode to see how their relationship would be like, there arent enough moments we see between them, imo she fell for him because she realized that he will love her no matter what , even if he was brainwashed for arthur,only his love for her remained and in the end it was the strength of that love that allowed arthur to manipulate him, and she knew it

i would really like to see how a day in their ( both in love) married life would be like

xchee said:
Caesar and Ichi are dead but to be honest, I felt nothing. There wasn't enough interaction between them to actually make me say "wow they're in love." No amount of "I'm now a good guy" act by Caesar will erase his scumbaggery with killing Nobu and Ichi's father and backstabbing Shingen. And while his declaration of love in the final moments was "okay," how did they even arrive to that?

1. Threaten Nobu with annihilation if he doesn't give Ichi.
2. Give chocolate cake.
3. ???
4. Declaration of love.

I just feel so sorry for Ichi she got caught up in all of this :/

1. when did he do that? he asked for regalias at first, besides they can just go back to war
2. +make her smile and praises her beauty
3. wedding night sex? (guessing hes pretty good)+ betray king for her
4. he declared his love for her since ep 14, last ep his declaration was made even in his brainwashed arthur worshipping state

Why feel sorry for her? Ichi was the happiest girl in the show at the end

Also how is it scumbaggery to kill someone in a war (and as i kept saying shingen was dead anyway)

Only scum thing caesar did was lying to takeda about how shingen died, but he redeemed himself several times over

jfsJun 1, 2014 6:44 PM

Jun 1, 2014 6:57 PM

#47

haganedonciii

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May 2013

56

so... it was inevitable...
beautiful ending of the ep, of their lives...

Jun 1, 2014 7:04 PM

#48

jzmagic

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Aug 2011

113

So glad Caesar and Ichihime are dead, couldn't stand those characters. Hopefully Nobu and Jeanne get paired in the end.

Jun 1, 2014 9:12 PM

#49

RosyXkid

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Jul 2010

966

I died inside when I saw Caeser die T ^ T
My ship died .....
It was so unexpected the fact that the twins betrayed Caeser and stabbed him and Ichihime
They way Caeser faught back and slashed the other twins was justice
Sad to see my couple end like that ...
I hate Nobu for hurting Caeser
So much death .... I am so sad
Atleast the lovers died together ,true love.

Jun 1, 2014 9:18 PM

#50