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May 18, 2014 9:28 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Oh Saru is still alive and kicking. Not bad for this episode. The quest continues although I think Nobuanga really needs to be prepared to what's to come.

Da Vinci was kinda interesting this episode. Really coming prepared huh. The last supper doesn't sound too pleasant though. Ugh the torture scenes were brutal. The BDs will probably remove the censors.
May 18, 2014 9:29 AM
#2

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Himiko is trying to keep Saru alive, and Nobu needs to overcome dragon's power. Seems like Saru lost one arm... oh, that purple hair guy is alive and he's going along.

Jeanne is not allowed to enter for not accepting herself. The illusions of first enemy, young Saru, younger brother, father... Everyone, even Sakurai-san's character, is overcoming his or her weakness. Looks like both of them did?

Nakamura-san's character resumes.
tsubasaloverMay 18, 2014 10:57 AM
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
May 18, 2014 10:32 AM
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Mitsu lusting after the wife of the man who saved his life...

Finally caesar is back in the next episode... he looks like he has his hands tied and is brought before arthur..
May 18, 2014 12:51 PM
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So in this episode, Nobu's trial began and ended well.
He finally realized what everyone has suffered up to now and accepted it.
Unlike Kenshin, who desires power only for himself, Nobu wishes to use it for the safety of everyone.
Jeanne had a trial of her own as well.
I sure hope Hideyoshi gets better.
So Da Vinci decided what the final part of The Last Supper will be, after all.
May 18, 2014 1:09 PM
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Nobunaga, Kenshin and Jeanne entered the land of the dead to test their trails.

The dragon accepted Nobunaga.

Too bad, Kenshin did not get the chance to be accepted by the dragon since he desired power for himself.
May 18, 2014 1:13 PM
#6

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The entire episode is very interesting, can't wait for next week !
May 18, 2014 1:19 PM
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well, kenshin's probably dead... Nobunaga has gone though the trial and become stronger and the same can be said of ranmaru. I can't wait. the last 5 episodes will be epic!
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May 18, 2014 1:31 PM
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So mitsu was hoping nobu wouldnt come back as he wants to be the savior king and probably have ichihime..

Meanwhile Preview for next ep...

Caesar: 'a lone light shines through the darkness of this world, that does not know what love is. I will do anything to protect that light.'

seriously how much better than mitsu must you be?
May 18, 2014 1:37 PM
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Man, Jeanne came close to cutting off her ear, that looked kinda painful.
May 18, 2014 1:59 PM
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Gah, Jeanne almost cutting off her ear looked so painful.
I'm glad Nobunaga was accepted by the dragons, I expect him to kick ass now.
May 18, 2014 2:13 PM

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wow, everyone were high except da Vinci.
kinda strange ep, but i like it. i'm glad, Monkey's still alive, Nobu really loves him.
can't wait the final episodes, there are 19 already!
(hm.. is it just me... but... Kenshin is not a woman? i know, in the history it's HE, and the seiyuu's SHE, but he/she looks like a mm... i really don't know)
May 18, 2014 2:18 PM

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Mitsu so you will betray Nobu. I think it'd be better if they teamed up. Mitsu as the saviour king and Nobu as the destroyer king. Mitsu just needs to get himself a regalia.
May 18, 2014 2:40 PM
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Historically wise Mitsu betrays Nobu and I was kinda really hoping they would not go down that path but after Da Vinci made the Last Supper reference I'm like great that means Mitsu is probably the equivalent of Judas and will betray Nobu aka Savior King aka Jesus -.-' I'm really happy Monkey is still alive [for the most part]
I'm kinda hoping Alexander gets his ass kicked though...
May 18, 2014 2:57 PM

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So he passed the trial and gained the dragon's honor, interesting.

I wonder what Nobuanga can do now?

Great episode!!!
May 18, 2014 3:19 PM

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Shit that was good. A very engaging episode. All that biblical imagery lol. Last supper, Jeanne and her prophecies-->the thorns, Nobu taking all of the dragons pain and sorrow, and of course MitsuJudas.

Finally Da Vinci makes his move, completing what Caesar set in motion, and a moves the plot a mile. Mitsu finally realizes his own true will and decides to grasp it. Caesar woke up a sleeping giant, and I don't think it's going to end well for him. I just wonder if Mitsu has a stronger will to avenge the Akechi Clan, or be with Ichihime? And I also wonder if his betrayal will hinge on believing Nobu truly is the destroyer-king.

Glad Hideyoshi is hanging in there, but man seeing him start to set into the land of the dead was pretty heavy.
Horakhty said:
Historically wise Mitsu betrays Nobu and I was kinda really hoping they would not go down that path but after Da Vinci made the Last Supper reference I'm like great that means Mitsu is probably the equivalent of Judas and will betray Nobu aka Savior King aka Jesus
lol pretty much. It's the best development we could hope to see from Mitsu though so I'm fine with it.
May 18, 2014 3:35 PM

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Another great ep from greatly underrated show :/ Nice to see Saru alive, and as for Jeanne I was hoping she would obtain her own Dragon powers but I'm okay with that. Da Vinci looked kinda shady in this episode. He probably has something up his sleeve. BTW I love OP and ED.
May 18, 2014 3:44 PM
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AlexTheRiot said:
Shit that was good. A very engaging episode. All that biblical imagery lol. Last supper, Jeanne and her prophecies-->the thorns, Nobu taking all of the dragons pain and sorrow, and of course MitsuJudas.

Finally Da Vinci makes his move, completing what Caesar set in motion, and a moves the plot a mile. Mitsu finally realizes his own true will and decides to grasp it. Caesar woke up a sleeping giant, and I don't think it's going to end well for him. I just wonder if Mitsu has a stronger will to avenge the Akechi Clan, or be with Ichihime? And I also wonder if his betrayal will hinge on believing Nobu truly is the destroyer-king.

Glad Hideyoshi is hanging in there, but man seeing him start to set into the land of the dead was pretty heavy.
Horakhty said:
Historically wise Mitsu betrays Nobu and I was kinda really hoping they would not go down that path but after Da Vinci made the Last Supper reference I'm like great that means Mitsu is probably the equivalent of Judas and will betray Nobu aka Savior King aka Jesus
lol pretty much. It's the best development we could hope to see from Mitsu though so I'm fine with it.


Ichihime will not forgive mitsu if anything happens to caesar because of him

Kill her brother, betray the other brother, kill her husband

I mean mitsu clearly is jealous because he noticed ichihime is now attached to caesar so I can see that happening

I cant see it ending well for mitsu either way
jfsMay 18, 2014 3:48 PM
May 18, 2014 4:34 PM

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I imagine Caesar is going to die..them Mitsu willget the chance with Ichihime...but i like Caesar too...I´m waiting for Himiko´s dead and see Jeanne-Ranmaru with Nobu.....and see that Nobu is the savior king..and...kill Alexander...hehe
maybe Mitsu will die fighting for his clan...he turned to darkness...
mmm...I´m waiting to see Nobu kill King Arthur...Nobu is growing...and i guess he is in love with Jeanne too ...heheh Nobu! Nobu! Nobu!
I love this character <3 he can´t loose ..he´s the HERO!
May 18, 2014 5:38 PM

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jfs said:

Ichihime will not forgive mitsu if anything happens to caesar because of him

Kill her brother, betray the other brother, kill her husband

I mean mitsu clearly is jealous because he noticed ichihime is now attached to caesar so I can see that happening

I cant see it ending well for mitsu either way

lol figured that'd draw you out.

I wouldn't be so sure Ichihime wouldn't forgive him. She said back in ep 9 she wanted to be light within the shadow(as Mitsu is constantly the shadow of Nobu's light. She knows his nature and wants to be the one to relieve him of the burden he places on himself by acting in the shadows. I doubt she'd turn her back on that. And don't forget Caesar killed her father, so it isn't unlike her to look past things to a certain extent.
May 18, 2014 5:55 PM
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AlexTheRiot said:
jfs said:

Ichihime will not forgive mitsu if anything happens to caesar because of him

Kill her brother, betray the other brother, kill her husband

I mean mitsu clearly is jealous because he noticed ichihime is now attached to caesar so I can see that happening

I cant see it ending well for mitsu either way

lol figured that'd draw you out.

I wouldn't be so sure Ichihime wouldn't forgive him. She said back in ep 9 she wanted to be light within the shadow(as Mitsu is constantly the shadow of Nobu's light. She knows his nature and wants to be the one to relieve him of the burden he places on himself by acting in the shadows. I doubt she'd turn her back on that. And don't forget Caesar killed her father, so it isn't unlike her to look past things to a certain extent.
yes and caesar also saved the oda clan and mitsus life.. and she knows what caesar has done for her.. and mitsu killed her brother too so.. will she want to be his light after she finds out he killed her bro and gona betray the other to be the savior king himself? She does not know his true nature... yet

and last episode its obvious ichi really cares for caesar (look at her expression after she found out he was still in the west) and wants him back safely, even if his return means she cant be with mitsu since he is her husband, in a way she had chosen caesar already.. its not like caesar has much value as an ally without his mecha and the takeda lands destroyed..

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1399/91/1399919676242.jpg You dont make this kind of face about someone in front of your supposed love interest unless you really care about him

And about killing the father thing.. it was a fair fight in war.. kill or be killed, even nobu has gotten over that.. but remember mitsu is supposed to be nobu and ichis most trusted person and he lied about killing nobukatsu and even told nobu to suspect the takeda.. im not sure how nobu would take that news.. from a moral standpoint what mitsu did is far worse than caesar even if he did it for the clan..
jfsMay 18, 2014 6:30 PM
May 18, 2014 6:08 PM
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So will Mitsuhide circumvent the betrayal and add some twist to it?
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
May 18, 2014 6:32 PM

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jfs said:
yes and caesar also saved the oda clan and mitsus life.. and she knows what caesar has done for her.. and mitsu killed her brother too so.. will she want to be his light after she finds out he killed her bro and gona betray the other to be the savior king himself? She does not know his true nature... yet

She does know his true nature, she just doesn't know the depths of the burden he puts on himself, i.e. the lengths he chooses to go to. I have a feeling she wouldn't be so surprised to learn of Mitsu killing Nobukatsu. She's the one that told Mitsu "if you stay in the shadows for too long you will wither." That was when she gave her last plea to 'be his light', so that he wouldn't go down the path he seems to be following now. So it's not like she doesn't know how he thinks.

And about killing the father thing.. it was a fair fight in war.. kill or be killed, even nobu has gotten over that.. but remember mitsu is supposed to be nobu and ichis most trusted person and he lied about killing nobukatsu and even told nobu to suspect the takeda.. im not sure how nobu would take that news..
I don't even see why you're saying all of this, I'm not trying to argue that Mitsu is better and should get Ichihime lol. And we aren't talking about Nobu, we're talking about how Ichihime would react. All I'm saying is I'm not so sure she wouldn't forgive him for everything because she knows his vulnerabilities as well as the darkness in his heart that puts him in the position he's in. Plus I don't think she really has the capacity to hate as Nobu does.

Honestly, I don't see it ending well for Caesar or Mitsu. Ichihime will probably die because of them, as I'm sure any of them being with someone at the end would take spotlight away from the obvious Nobu x Jeanne endgame.
May 18, 2014 6:42 PM
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AlexTheRiot said:
jfs said:
yes and caesar also saved the oda clan and mitsus life.. and she knows what caesar has done for her.. and mitsu killed her brother too so.. will she want to be his light after she finds out he killed her bro and gona betray the other to be the savior king himself? She does not know his true nature... yet

She does know his true nature, she just doesn't know the depths of the burden he puts on himself, i.e. the lengths he chooses to go to. I have a feeling she wouldn't be so surprised to learn of Mitsu killing Nobukatsu. She's the one that told Mitsu "if you stay in the shadows for too long you will wither." That was when she gave her last plea to 'be his light', so that he wouldn't go down the path he seems to be following now. So it's not like she doesn't know how he thinks.

And about killing the father thing.. it was a fair fight in war.. kill or be killed, even nobu has gotten over that.. but remember mitsu is supposed to be nobu and ichis most trusted person and he lied about killing nobukatsu and even told nobu to suspect the takeda.. im not sure how nobu would take that news..
I don't even see why you're saying all of this, I'm not trying to argue that Mitsu is better and should get Ichihime lol. And we aren't talking about Nobu, we're talking about how Ichihime would react. All I'm saying is I'm not so sure she wouldn't forgive him for everything because she knows his vulnerabilities as well as the darkness in his heart that puts him in the position he's in. Plus I don't think she really has the capacity to hate as Nobu does.

Honestly, I don't see it ending well for Caesar or Mitsu. Ichihime will probably die because of them, as I'm sure any of them being with someone at the end would take spotlight away from the obvious Nobu x Jeanne endgame.


Well Ichi MIGHT forgive him but i dont think she will want to be with him anymore.. this episode he was almost hoping for nobu to not return so he can be the savior king (and probably have ichihime).. thats not just dark.. thats twisted.. its one think to remain in the shadows and another to.. well go to the dark side.. and nobukatsu.. sigh.. he was the most innocent, kind and pure soul in the show.. it depends on the context.. if caesar was a bad guy and he kills him ichi wont mind.. but if he kills caesar out of jealousy or spite .. even she isnt that forgiving i think, especially since, like i said, caesar is clearly important to her now

The stage play has mitsu as star crossed lovers and yeah that ended badly but i think the anime will be different..Mitsu did not kill nobukatsu and Caesar was a bastard in the play and ichi never liked him and he never did anything remotely nice like baking her cake and saving her clan.. Anime caesar went to extreme redemption length making caesar become a hero and even saving mitsus life and possibly even winning ichis affections by his selfless acts, he totally changed because of her so i think anime will go for the adaptation difference route..

Look if Ichi dies caesar will definitely die first.. his only motivation now is protecting her and making her happy after all.. especially after what he said in ep 20 preview..if anything mitsus madness might put ichi and danger and caesar might die protecting her and this will piss her off.. i think mitsu and brutus will both betray nobu and caesar but both will survive thanks to Ichi and jeanne respectively (because they were 2 people that werent there in history, and jeanne already survived her burning thanks to nobu who wasnt there in her original incarnation)

Nobu and caesar has obvious parallels.. both are the only ones blessed by dragons from the start (lol asspull cannon) , both loves a woman from a foreign star (jeanne and ichi obviously) and most importantly, both have ticking time bomb betrayal flags (brutus and mitsu), i have a feeling they both survive the show and return to rebuild their stars with their respective partners.. or at least i hope so
Its obvious that caesar is the main west star character while nobu is the eastern one, so who knows they might both just survive and get happy ends... maybe
jfsMay 18, 2014 7:05 PM
May 18, 2014 7:13 PM

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They really like hurting Jeanne >__<
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness."

"May those who defy their fate be granted glory."
May 18, 2014 9:43 PM
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The scenes with Jeanne though... oh my.
May 18, 2014 10:54 PM

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Boombawks said:
This was a very powerful episode, Mitsu could be like Judas? Hmm

Not LIKE Judas, he WAS Judas(of his time) and it seems anime is going that road too.
I guess leopard can't change its spots huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbsWQqnWS_s hehe
OnbuuMay 19, 2014 12:49 AM
May 19, 2014 12:09 AM

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This episode has motivation and determination. Nobunaga obtains power. I wonder what happened to Kenshin. Maybe he'll return.
May 19, 2014 12:24 AM

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Yes Himiko, there is no way Nobunaga would let his "right hand man" die so easily...

Am I a horrible person for snickering at that point?
May 19, 2014 12:54 AM

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Bikdu866 said:
Yes Himiko, there is no way Nobunaga would let his "right hand man" die so easily...

Am I a horrible person for snickering at that point?


Same here, I like Mitsu but objectively he's scum.
May 19, 2014 1:21 AM

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That was trippy. At times I didn't like how this series shows it's adapted from a play, but no complain for this episode.

Will the Akechi clan rise again? I can't see things end well for Nobu and Caesar (because it would ruin the "power corrupts" message that has been delivered since episode one), but seeing Ichi on fire felt bad. If Mitsuhide was to betray Nobu he'd do it after the death of Ichi because he wouldn't have a strong attachement to the Oda anymore. Or even feel the Nobu cost him Ichi or something.
May 19, 2014 1:50 AM
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EratiK said:
That was trippy. At times I didn't like how this series shows it's adapted from a play, but no complain for this episode.

Will the Akechi clan rise again? I can't see things end well for Nobu and Caesar (because it would ruin the "power corrupts" message that has been delivered since episode one), but seeing Ichi on fire felt bad. If Mitsuhide was to betray Nobu he'd do it after the death of Ichi because he wouldn't have a strong attachement to the Oda anymore. Or even feel the Nobu cost him Ichi or something.


Imo its more likely mitsu will betray nobu when he feels he has lost ichi to caesar (he got jelly twice already after in ep 18 ichi clearly worries about caesar and that last supper painting shows ichi turning to caesar) and especially if when caesar and ichi reunites they have a romantic moment (preview for ep 20 has caesaer saying he will do anything to protect 'the light' or something)..if caesar ends up doing something for ichi again while mitsu can only watch powerlessly (as in ep 14) he might be desperate to betray nobu to be the savior king and get her back..imo this might make both mitsu and brutus betray their respective masters at around the same time ( brutus feeling his master has been manipulated by ichi)

Also remember when caesar first appeared da vinci secretly made an evil smile.. I always wondered about that.. did he know all this is going to happen and purposely incited mitsu to his betrayal? Idk about da vinci sometimes he gives off this evil vibe but then he seems really worried about himiko.. just what is his agenda who knows
jfsMay 19, 2014 2:13 AM
May 19, 2014 2:01 AM

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jfs said:
Imo its more likely mitsu will betray nobu when he feels he has lost ichi to caesar (he got jelly twice already after in ep 18 ichi clearly worries about caesar and that last supper painting shows ichi turning to caesar) and especially if when caesar and ichi reunites they have a romantic moment (preview for ep 20 has caesaer saying he will do anything to protect 'the light' or something)..if caesar ends up doing something for ichi again while mitsu can only watch powerlessly (as in ep 14) he might be desperate to betray nobu to be the savior king and get her back..imo this might make both mitsu and brutus betray their respective masters at around the same time
I don't think so, that would be shallow from a guy like Mitsuhide for whom duty comes first. He's the kind of guy to choose duty over unactualized love, especially since he sees Ichi building something with Caesar and he wants her happiness.

Also the show works with real history, so of course Ichi would look to Caesar since he's Azai the ally (in the same way nothing will happen between Nobu and Jeanne because she's Ranmaru, a retainer). And historical recounts on Mitsuhide shows he was very loyal, but because he was too old with the wrong alliances Nobunaga really pushed him in a corner. Nobunaga pushed everybody around and would have been killed sooner or later. It's well shown in Hyougemono.
EratiKMay 19, 2014 2:19 AM
May 19, 2014 2:21 AM
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EratiK said:
jfs said:
Imo its more likely mitsu will betray nobu when he feels he has lost ichi to caesar (he got jelly twice already after in ep 18 ichi clearly worries about caesar and that last supper painting shows ichi turning to caesar) and especially if when caesar and ichi reunites they have a romantic moment (preview for ep 20 has caesaer saying he will do anything to protect 'the light' or something)..if caesar ends up doing something for ichi again while mitsu can only watch powerlessly (as in ep 14) he might be desperate to betray nobu to be the savior king and get her back..imo this might make both mitsu and brutus betray their respective masters at around the same time
I don't think so, that would be shallow from a guy like Mitsuhide for whom duty comes first. He's the kind of guy to choose duty over unactualized love, especially since he sees Ichi building something with Caesar and he wants her happiness.

Also the show works with real history, so of course Ichi would look to Caesar since he's Azai the ally. And historical recounts on Mitsuhide shows he was very loyal, but because he was too old with wrong alliances Nobunaga really pushed him in a corner, Nobunaga pushed everybody around. It's well shown in Hyougemono.


Well right now he can choose between his loyalty to nobu /ichi or the akechi clan.. if he feels he has lost ichi it will be easier for hin to embrace his fate..
Mitsu is clearly jealous of caesar and isnt happy that ichi is starting to care for him..

I dont think caesar is azai.. mitsus ninja girls (called the akechi corps) are named after ichis historical daughters with azai and they are also her ladies in waiting.. imo its mitsu that is azai and azai ended up betraying nobunaga historically and turned against him in the end.. so imo anime mitsu fills the roles of historical azai (ichis first love) and mitsu (the betrayer) combined, if that makes sense..

caesar is more likely the 2nd husband, but in this show its more like mitsu is her first love and caesar 2nd.. if that makes sense .. also wasnt mitsuhides reason for betrayal in real life unknown? Like theres alot of theories about it but nobody knows the real reason for sure
jfsMay 19, 2014 2:31 AM
May 19, 2014 2:44 AM

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I think this episode was a bit fast but it was nice overall. 4/5
Let's see what kind of power he got... (also what happened to Kenshin??)
May 19, 2014 3:25 AM

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jfs said:
I dont think caesar is azai.. mitsus ninja girls (called the akechi corps) are named after ichis historical daughters with azai and they are also her ladies in waiting.. imo its mitsu that is azai and azai ended up betraying nobunaga historically and turned against him in the end.. so imo anime mitsu fills the roles of historical azai (ichis first love) and mitsu (the betrayer) combined, if that makes sense...
It's true I'm saying Caesar has two historical roles (Caesar/Azai), but while it's the same for Jeanne/Ranmaru, another Westerner, for Easterner characters, and for the viewers that are familiar with them, it would be too confusing to give them two roles, and no Easterner character has shown any sign yet of having two historical roles. So I don't think Mitsuhide can be Azai because he's already Mitsuhide.

Secondly, Oichi was given to Azai to secure an alliance because the Oda territory was vulnerable on this side. And it's what happens in the show with Caesar. For me Caesar is clearly Azai, even their name sound a bit alike.
EratiKMay 19, 2014 3:36 AM
May 19, 2014 3:42 AM
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EratiK said:
jfs said:
I dont think caesar is azai.. mitsus ninja girls (called the akechi corps) are named after ichis historical daughters with azai and they are also her ladies in waiting.. imo its mitsu that is azai and azai ended up betraying nobunaga historically and turned against him in the end.. so imo anime mitsu fills the roles of historical azai (ichis first love) and mitsu (the betrayer) combined, if that makes sense...
It's true I'm saying Caesar has two historical roles (Caesar/Azai), but while it's the same for Jeanne/Ranmaru, another Westerner, for Easterner characters, and for the viewers that are familiar with them, it would be too confusing to give them two roles, and no Easterner character has shown any sign yet of having two historical roles. So I don't think Mitsuhide can be Azai because he's already Mitsuhide.

Secondly, Oichi was given to Azai to secure an alliance because the Oda territory was vulnerable on this side. And it's what happens in the show with Caesar. For me Caesar is clearly Azai, even their name sound a bit alike.


How does caesar and azai sound remotely alike?

Like I said what got me thinking mitsu is also azai is that ichihimes ladies in waiting is named after her daughterss with azai and they are a group called 'akechi corps' and works for mitsu.. and azai also betrayed nobu

Maybe the azai role is split between caesar and mitsu with caesar getting the 'ally/arranged husband' role and mitsu gets the 'betrayer' role but idk.. the akechi corps name sold it for me though
May 19, 2014 4:00 AM

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jfs said:
How does caesar and azai sound remotely alike?

Like I said what got me thinking mitsu is also azai is that ichihimes ladies in waiting is named after her daughterss with azai and they are a group called 'akechi corps' and works for mitsu.. and azai also betrayed nobu
Caesar is pronounced /ˈsiːzəʳ/ (look it up), that's like "sezar", sezar and azai sound alike. Oh yeah, it's true they say "kaesaru" in Japanese. Haha. Julius Kaiser.

The last name of Mitsuhide is Akechi, so it's obvious his ninja corp would have his name. So your only argument is that they have Oichi's daughters names. I would agree with you if the ninjas were actually Ichi's daughters, but they're not, so at this point I have to assume it's to show a strong bond between Ichi and the ninjas while dishing familiar names to the viewers. I guess you could say that makes Mitsuhide the symbolic father of the symbolic daughters through symbolic love, but Azai had a concrete relationship with Oichi, and that's what Caesar has.
EratiKMay 19, 2014 4:28 AM
May 19, 2014 4:04 AM
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Is it just me? I think Davinci is the last boss or some one who has very important role. I mean he manipulate everyone destiny(via tarot cards) and sometime guide them to their (suppose) paths.

Am I just over analyzing this?
May 19, 2014 4:27 AM
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EratiK said:
jfs said:
How does caesar and azai sound remotely alike?

Like I said what got me thinking mitsu is also azai is that ichihimes ladies in waiting is named after her daughterss with azai and they are a group called 'akechi corps' and works for mitsu.. and azai also betrayed nobu
Caesar is pronounced /ˈsiːzəʳ/ (look it up), that's like "sezar", sezar and azai sound alike.

The last name of Mitsuhide is Akechi, so it's obvious his ninja corp would have his name. So your only argument is that they have Oichi's daughters names. I would agree with you if the ninjas were actually Ichi's daughters, but they're not, so at this point I have to assume it's to show a strong bond between Ichi and the ninjas while dishing familiar names to the viewers. I guess you could say that makes Mitsuhide the symbolic father of the symbolic daughters through symbolic love, but Azai had a concrete relationship with Oichi, and that's what Caesar has.


Im talking about the fact that mitsuhides ninjas have oichis daughters name and are also ichihimes ladies in waiting..bit of a coincidence..

Well there is also a theory in japanese 2ch about ichihime being a combination of 2 historical figures (oichi and nouhime, nobus historical wife) nouhime was said to be a childhood friend of mitsuhide and that might explain the unhistorical romance, while the role of oichi is also filled by being married to caesae but I dunno.. its all guessing amd speculation but thats my intepretation

anyway I suggest not to read too much to history in this anime.. like I said earlier nobunagas wife is supposed to be nouhime, not himiko or jeanne so yeah

Da vinci seems to be an instigator to set events in their supposed historical paths, not sure if he is evil.. maybe neutral? But he seems to care about himiko but I get really manipulative vibes from him last ep
May 19, 2014 4:41 AM

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jfs said:
Well there is also a theory in japanese 2ch about ichihime being a combination of 2 historical figures (oichi and nouhime, nobus historical wife) nouhime was said to be a childhood friend of mitsuhide and that might explain the unhistorical romance, while the role of oichi is also filled by being married to caesae but I dunno..
Oh, very nice. I keep forgetting Ichi's name is Ichihime and not just Ichi.

astranabeat said:
Is it just me? I think Davinci is the last boss or some one who has very important role. I mean he manipulate everyone destiny(via tarot cards) and sometime guide them to their (suppose) paths. Am I just over analyzing this?
Yeah when I saw Arthur playing with Tarots (in episode 17? not sure if he did it before), I was like "oh man, is this Da Vinci is disguise?", but I doubt they're the same. Still, Da Vinci feels like a very high player for some reason.
EratiKMay 19, 2014 6:31 AM
May 19, 2014 5:45 AM
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EratiK said:
jfs said:
Well there is also a theory in japanese 2ch about ichihime being a combination of 2 historical figures (oichi and nouhime, nobus historical wife) nouhime was said to be a childhood friend of mitsuhide and that might explain the unhistorical romance, while the role of oichi is also filled by being married to caesae but I dunno..
Oh, very nice. I keep forgetting Ichi's name is Ichihime and not just Ichi.

Yeah when I saw Arthur playing with Tarots (in episode 17? not sure if he did it before), I was like "oh man, is this Da Vinci is disguise?", but I doubt they're the same. Still, Da Vinci feels like a very high player for some reason.


Well im more curious with what the hell is arthur? Is he even human? I doubt the face he showed alexander was even real (but he had purple! Eyes like da vinci) and in the next ep preview he was holding caesars hand and it seems like a womans hand..

I think arthur takes the appearence of the one we admire the most (alexander immediately cried and compared him to the great achilles) and for caesar.. well duh its gona be a woman( maybe even the one he said he fought a duel over).. maybe thats how he manipulated the round table to be loyal to him
May 19, 2014 8:21 AM

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Awesome ep.
May 19, 2014 10:56 AM

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Good ep. Seeing all those dying characters again.

Also nice development for Nobunaga.

The conversation between Da Vinci and Mitsu was quite interesting. He even thinks that Mitsu has the capacity to be the main character. And the end does not look good with Mitsu's tone.

More Jeanne S&M torture -.- Why so much of that?! I do want to see the BDs for that scene to see DAT ASS :P

Power up complete :D Can't wait for some ass kicking ^^
May 19, 2014 8:53 PM

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Monkey looks like a mummy, but at least he's alive

Heavy episode.
May 20, 2014 4:06 AM

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All this talk about whether Mitsuhide will betray Nobunaga or not and I'm still wondering when or if I'll finally be able to make use of a certain famous quote from Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar".
May 20, 2014 4:47 AM
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ReaperCreeper said:
All this talk about whether Mitsuhide will betray Nobunaga or not and I'm still wondering when or if I'll finally be able to make use of a certain famous quote from Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar".


If we are going by the last supper, spoilers for ep 21 'the justice' shows that caesar finally reappears to negotiate ceasefire between west and east, and maybe during/after the last supper event (Judas betrayed jesus shortly after the last supper) mitsu and brutus will betray nobu and caesar at the same time (or even team up), but imo Jeanne and Ichi will save nobu and caesar especially since

jfsMay 20, 2014 5:10 AM
May 20, 2014 5:21 AM

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nooo white bars of doom.

fantastic episode

the series really loves throwing in some pretty dark stuff.
May 20, 2014 8:19 AM
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I THOUGHT HIDEYOSHI IS REALLY DEAD?!

Now I'm confused....
May 20, 2014 9:26 AM

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Dat fan-service from "you know who it is"
May 20, 2014 1:10 PM

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Great episode, one of the best for sure. The atmosphere was quite good, but the 2nd part was a real mindfuck.



But the best is yet to come, Caesar is back!
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