Hanasaku Iroha Episode 12 Discussion

-Lunacie said:
Also, has anyone considered that maybe Tohru isn't jealous of Ohana's boyfriend, but rather that she has a love interest at 16 and he's still alone at 23? XD[/quote said:


i think its quite obvious that he likes ohana... :P

Wildsleven said:


i think its quite obvious that he likes ohana... :P

Tsuki-Hime said:

This all of it.

Peoples just hate her because she's getting in ohana way but they don't realize she's not using dirty tricks. while ohana is definitely hurting Kou. when she was giving advice to Tohru "believe yourself and fest it up" .. i was thinking look who's the one talking. her confessor is waiting for six months.

Peoples here thinking glasses girl was assuming all things. lol.. whatever she assumed was exactly right.. she asked her directly in the end "how you liked him then". ohana said "human and as a living creature" just LOL xD .. i wish if kou had listened this "coincidentally"

i do not support ohanaxtohru.. ohana don't deserve any of them. she's getting more annoying every passing episode.

HawthorneKitty said:
I'd like to hear your reasoning for this as she is the most competent person in the realm of love in this anime.

Grmo said:


I assume that was said because glasses girl appears to be getting in the way of our main character. Characters who get in the way of the focus character are unfailingly annoying, even if it's a necessary step for the character's development. What is flawed here is that glasses girl has very little development, so we only see her as being a stone-faced girl who's taking a mere crush very seriously. I imagine it goes much deeper than that, but we don't know, because she hasn't been developed. Thus, she appears to be a bitch.

Anyway, I will add to this discussion on a broader note: I dislike glasses girl for two reasons. In part, as I mentioned before, because she has not been developed as a character. Mostly, however, it is the fact that she has the audacity to interfere with an interpersonal relationship that, beyond her temporary feelings, she has no real part of. She only feels that she is a part of it because she is in an infatuation stage with one member of said relationship. Personally, I think it is detestable that one should put such pressure on another because they want their feelings returned, or at least answered. It's an immature (perhaps even infantile) way of dealing with attraction. It's like looking for reassurance and pushing the responsibility of your feelings onto someone else. I could go on about why confessions are a terrible idea (you know, as opposed to building a relationship naturally), but this isn't the place for that.

The problem is between Ko and Ohana. Yes, Ohana is hurting Ko, but do you remember who it was who suddenly turned the tides on the relationship, bringing romantic feelings out of the blue? How easy do you think that is to deal with? Of course Ohana doesn't know what to do. Especially when the confessor runs away shortly after and doesn't see her off the next day. That complicates things. Don't forget that Ohana, who is dealing with a lot of other things, is well within her rights to not give an answer to a hugely complicated question that was sprung upon her suddenly, and in a complicated manner. This is between Ko and Ohana, and ideally, we would have the two of them work it out without an undeveloped third party. The undeveloped third party is cheating. It's a cheap plot device.

As for this cheap plot device, she is forcefully inserting herself into a love triangle, and trying to push the "competitor" (and I use that word lightly because I find it conceptually nauseating in the overblown world of love) out. It is a human trait that frustrates me to no end, and while it can make for good drama, it only does so if the character is developed. In fact, all my aforementioned issues with "glasses bitch" could be smoothed over had she had some sort of development.

tl;dr: Remember that rule about how undeveloped characters shouldn't interfere with developed, main characters, lest they become annoyances? Glasses girl. I rest my case.

EDIT: another tl;dr, and a rundown of why Ohana is "hurting dear Ko-chan"

1) Ohana has to leave, because her mother is insane
2) Ko decides to confess his love out of the blue, which Ohana does not expect
3) Ko runs away for some reason
4) Ko decides to complicate matters further by not seeing her off
5) Ko decides to text Ohana later when she's trying to get used to entirely new place and new people
6) Ohana can't figure out wtf to think

Note that, in all of this (like I mentioned earlier when I mentioned something I wasn't going to talk about lololoollolololpl), There was no natural build up to romance (at least, none that we saw, or have even been given hints of) -- just pure, good old fashioned "massive sexual feelings out of nowhere".

I'm sorry, this has kind of turned into a rant against the whole romance system in anime. Forgive me if I've rambled, and feel free to discuss anything I posted with me.

rondo56 said:
Its been somewhere probably close to 6 months since she has been confessed to. How much longer do you expect him to wait? And it hasn’t been shown that she’s given a whole lot of thought about her reply. This episode has pretty much confirmed she doesn’t hold romantic feeling for Ko, yet she still does not give a reply to his confession. If she hasn’t given him a reply in half a year despite knowing she doesn’t hold such feelings, then when will she? You expect this “undeveloped” third party to just wait because she knows little about the matter? It’s unfair for both.

Also i don’t see how an undeveloped character can appear to be a bitch when she hasn’t done anything wrong.

rondo56 said:


Its been somewhere probably close to 6 months since she has been confessed to. How much longer do you expect him to wait? And it hasn’t been shown that she’s given a whole lot of thought about her reply. This episode has pretty much confirmed she doesn’t hold romantic feeling for Ko, yet she still does not give a reply to his confession. If she hasn’t given him a reply in half a year despite knowing she doesn’t hold such feelings, then when will she? You expect this “undeveloped” third party to just wait because she knows little about the matter? It’s unfair for both.

Also i don’t see how an undeveloped character can appear to be a bitch when she hasn’t done anything wrong.

shinki7 said:
Oh no, does this mean bye bye to Ko-chan?
Ko-chan should go to Kissuisou :(

When Tooru was saying "We're taking this Koichi guy along as well." I really like it! It's like he want same head-to-head competition with him...and will make the anime more interesting :> Stupid ohana got affected by the meganeko.

Kaeyuki said:

Err, Ohana has outright said it hasn't even been half a year since she left. Probably about 3 months at most.

geezer said:


nope you're not alone. but some people like him for it because "he's just being a little socially awkward" and "only means good". Even Minko enjoys this rude behavior. I will never understand his appeal, I guess.

Crii said:

She used to hate his guts (well, ok, maybe not hate but strongly disliked him)

You know that saying right? "Love and hate are just one step apart."

YabaBaga said:
If that's all that it takes for Ohana to have stronger feelings for him than Ko, I don't know what's going on. I suppose the author falls into the "One True Love" belief where it's more fate than personality that determines your attraction.

I think Ko's main failing is that he didn't see Ohana off and didn't try to maintain more of a presence in her life. Now she's just going to find a substitute for his support and that will be Tohru. *sighs*

Crii said:
We could argue and argue and maybe at the end Ohana might end up declaring herself Yuri for Minko.

Ajunky said:
LOL, that would make the weird unidirectional triangle: Ohana → Minko → Tohru → Ohana ...
I can only think of one solution for that, but it's a bit... unconventional.

Ajunky said:
LOL, that would make the weird unidirectional triangle: Ohana → Minko → Tohru → Ohana ...
I can only think of one solution for that, but it's a bit... unconventional.

Yumekichi11 said:


I truly loved it! It was incredible to bear witness after like 11 episodes.

• Loved seeing Minko sleeping innocently in the spoiler
  
  
  while Tooru tries to sleep in the chair at the 2am mark. Oh my my! Tooru sure had the face in seeing Minko sleeping so innocently. Cheers to that one.

Crii said:


N-not to be mean or anything but...Tooru's expression was surprise that Ohana wasn´t sleeping there.

-timidly fades into the shadows-

Vinter said:
About Tooru. He never "Forced" Minko to throw up. He merely suggested that if she didn't have room for more food, she could just throw up to make more room. He was thinking practically.

Grmo said:


Yeah, I guess you're right about that; I'd forgotten how long it had been. However, I don't think the "villain" tag should be placed on Ohana. She's the one to whom the situation is not fair, because it was Ko who decided to risk their relationship, putting it in a precarious situation with both distance, which he knew was coming, and putting pressure on his friend. If he hadn't done that, then there would be no problem. If he can't suppress his feelings for the sake of a strong friendship, then he sucks. And as we can see, he does, in fact, suck. If his"goodbye" really meant "goodbye", ie. if he plans on cutting off their friendship because his suckiness failed to get him a girlfriend, then he REALLY sucks, and I think this is indisputable.

Anyway, I didn't expect glasses girl to wait; I just expected some character development so we know exactly why (emphasis on "know", not "kind of know" or "know more or less") she's doing that and where she's coming from, and most importantly, can relate to it on an emotional level.

Also I explained why she "appears" to be a bitch, remember? Though I do see your point. The only thing I disagree with is the statement "she hasn't done anything wrong" (and as this has been posted a lot here, this goes to everyone). I disagree with this because she is interfering (as I said) and being inconsiderate (putting pressure on Ohana when she knows nothing, or at least we don't know that she knows anything because there has been no character development whatsoever), all for her own sake.

All things considered, glasses girl is an fully fledged annoyance, and Ko is breaching on it himself*.


*In case you disagree, here's what Ko did:

"My closest friend is leaving. I have a really good relationship with her. But I want to fuck her. So I going to force my feelings on her then run away like an inconsiderate bitch, because my libido can't wait until the shitstorm in her life has settled down. Instead, I'll just add to it, because that's what good friends do. Now that she came back to Tokyo, I'm going to refuse to do anything with her because she can't accept my feelings, instantly putting years of close friendship behind us, and I'm going to stay here because there's another girl I can have sex with. I love my life."


So, when you say "It's unfair for both", I think I've made a clear case as to why it's actually Ohana to whom "it's unfair for". It's perfectly fair to Ko, because he confessed out of nowhere, so it's not someone else's responsibility to make him feel alright about himself. It's also perfectly fair to glasses girl, because, as I'm sure you've realized at some point in your own life, just because you have a crush on someone doesn't mean you get them to like you back. If you find out they like someone else, then you accept that. You don't go looking for the person they like and interfering so that the person you like will like you instead. That's called manipulation, and it's particularly "wrong" when there's a close friendship at stake that you're trying to get out of the way.

So, yes, glasses girl has done something wrong, and thus appears to be a bitch. Though I wouldn't use that word. I'd use "bitch" for Ko and use "manipulative whore" for glasses girl.

EDIT: I know that's kind of harsh, and I don't entirely mean that. I'm just trying to emphasize my point.

Grmo said:
She's the one to whom the situation is not fair, because it was Ko who decided to risk their relationship, putting it in a precarious situation with both distance, which he knew was coming, and putting pressure on his friend.

rondo56 said:
Glasses girl knows about Ko's confession to Ohana, seen them interact, its not too difficult to make out what sort of relationship they have. Clearly she knew enough to assume correctly about their relationship status when confronting Ohana. If she really did have feelings for Ko it would be a disservice for them all for her not to confront Ohana, given the status of Ko and Ohana's relation.

Yumekichi11 said:
So he was staring more at the pillow where Ohana was sleeping? I did not see his sight there but it is questionable what exactly was the face expression at, Minko or the pillow Ohana used?