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GarLogan78 said: same questions. seriously, where are the answers?! |
 banana |
Marly-chan said: Next episode: Hiroshi dies, nobody cares. GOOD END We can only hope. |
DarkRoseOtaku said: GarLogan78 said: same questions. seriously, where are the answers?! For the first and third look into the VN Spoiler thread...for the second I can only say AIC wanted to copy what DEEN did with Higurashi and failed massively. They are just questions that they never bothered to answer in the anime, just like why Mana is in a wheelchair, how Isuzu fell in love with Hiroshi, why Nemurus dad looks so old, what exactly the Hakurô Kanon were... |
Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| DAT LAUGH. That is all. DeusExMachina said: This has gone so steeply downhill I can't even put it to words. This episode should jump out of the dictionary under "lackluster". It was all so underplayed. Was this really supposed to be the most climactic moment? Honestly, I felt absolutely nothing watching this episode. "The dam!" -partial flood- "Nvm. It stopped." "Mieko!" "Kill me." "No, me." "No, not her!" "I can't forgive you after all!" (Shocker) "No, wait. Hi. Let's hug. Time to stumble off the edge of this conveniently placed cliff." -cue undramatic stumble- -plop- "So anyway," This is how it played out for me. And then it concludes with Hiroshi beating the audience over the head with the moral of the story. Wonderful. ...are you reading my mind? |
- If you believe this place holds you, it is a prison. If you do not wish to leave, it will become a fortress. Current icon: Kusuriuri from Mononoke by pana (LJ username) |
Kvakond said: Took me some time to get over the initial shock.I am speechless. Ok, so at the "Press to flood town" button I already took facepalming position, but what happened afterwards was truly unexpected. Even after giving it some thought I'm quite certain this was the worst episode of any anime I have ever seen. I couldn't believe they are actually serious with this, right until the last minute I thought they pull an "it was just a dream/whatever" like 11eyes before the last ep. But no, they were serious with all that ridiculous crap. He was waving around that undersized gun with.. 3 bullets at superhuman werewolves. Argh.. Lowered to 2/10, might end up as 1/10. Wasabi said: Pretty much.What the fuck just happened? Sakaki dies the generic villain blind from revenge and Hiroshi stays as useless as ever. And wtf Kaori? I don't even know what to say about that. It was just so terrible. She's probably the biggest plot hole in this whole show. And wtf at Isuzu suddenly the bestest friends with Nemeru. And wtf at this not even being the last episode. |
| God damn it Sakaki! You missed! You shot the gun, Hiroshi was right in you sights and you missed! The whole time I was shouting "SHOOT HIM! KILL THAT SON OF A BITCH!" when you had that gun right to his head! Anyway, I am really questioning Sakaki's little evil scheme here. 1: Inform everyone about Joga gods. 2: Run off, stab someone and leave behind evidence that could forewarn town of incoming flood. 3: Pick up gun that you hid in the forest for no reason and could have been easily hidden in your jacket. 4: Fight off dam worker with knife even though you know he is superhuman and could be taken out with one shot of the gun. 5: Flood dam and attempt to kill off everyone that you informed about Joga gods and make you previous actions pointless. Run off without sabotaging controls. Yep, you really thought that through Sakaki. Oh, and to "noteDhero" I really find your opinion questionable. Yes, Ookami was a pile of crap but that does not mean you can mock Ryukishi 07 writing. As stated before, this is the anime and has different writers for the episode and different planning. So saying that Ryukishi's not a competent writer when you have not read any of his works is a little....stupid(For lack of a better word) It's like saying that the harry potter books are poorly written when you have only seen the movies. I do read Visual novels(Saya no uta, Fate stay night, Kana, Chaos head, Tsukihime....) and I know that there is a massive difference in quality when VNs translate over to anime. For example the Chaos head VN was actually quite good. It still suffered from the terrible ending and dragging in the middle but compared to the anime it was far, far better. I basically am trying to say that you can flame the anime creators all you like but don't push blame on a writer who's works you have never read. Alright rant over. Anyway I pin the blame for this failure right on the director. The fellow also made a mess of 07-Ghost with the exact same problem. Slow development that lead to a terrible ending. |
 "I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila." |
| I've already said why I find Ryukishi 07 to be a writer with suspect talent. It goes beyond any single thing he's done. It's my looking at all three of the adaptations and saying none of it speaks to me as a whole, and that Ookami is recycled Higurashi. At the end of the day, it's my opinion, and I already stated that I know how faulty it is, but I have yet to see anything he's done and say to myself, "I wonder what this was like in the VN." No VN adaptations do that, and the closest was probably Phantom, unless I don't even realize something I saw was based off of a visual novel. My words about Ryukishi 07 only apply to the broader sense in that, much like Key, their nonsense has gotten on my last nerve, and I'm weary to pick up any other show based off of those works. And I'm not squaring the blame on 07th Expansion either. It's the job of the studio to properly adapt something, and they are even more responsible because it is in their power to change anything that is ambiguous or beside the main point of the story. And the director is yet another place to lay blame, even if he did a better job creating tension here, than in 07-Ghost. |
Marly-chan said: Next episode: Hiroshi dies, nobody cares. GOOD END I approve of this ending. @DeuxExMachina: You pretty much resumed the episode, the only difference is that you actually made me react in some kind of way X'D |
FukiriMar 26, 2010 6:31 PM
noteDhero said: I've already said why I find Ryukishi 07 to be a writer with suspect talent. It goes beyond any single thing he's done. It's my looking at all three of the adaptations and saying none of it speaks to me as a whole, and that Ookami is recycled Higurashi. At the end of the day, it's my opinion, and I already stated that I know how faulty it is, but I have yet to see anything he's done and say to myself, "I wonder what this was like in the VN." No VN adaptations do that, and the closest was probably Phantom, unless I don't even realize something I saw was based off of a visual novel. My words about Ryukishi 07 only apply to the broader sense in that, much like Key, their nonsense has gotten on my last nerve, and I'm weary to pick up any other show based off of those works. It's a good thing that you know that your opinion is faulty. And frankly I don't have the strength to start up a endless debate that leads nowhere. So I will simply leave you with this bit of advice. You have to remember that adaptations are normally vastly different from the sources. You are basically pinning all your hopes on the anime to inspire you to check out the original source. While that may be the normal way of thinking for the average fan you may find yourself missing out on some fantastic stories. For example, Tsukihime had a downright terrible adaptation. After watching it I had no interest at all of looking at the VN. But then I read Fate/Stay Night and found out that they were both made by Type moon. So I decided to check out the Tsukihime VN on a wim. And by god! Despite a lack of production values the story was fantastic. I found it unbelievable that the anime screwed this up. Anyway, moral of the story. Don't judge a book by it's cover. |
"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila." |
| Well, there really isn't an 'endless debate' to start since it already happened, and I'm just rehashing the same thoughts over again. Your advice on adaptations is exactly what the last person tried to educate me on. I'm already aware of this fact, and that's why I make the note about saying "based on all three of his works." Even though there isn't much to say specifically on any of his adaptations (except that most of his characters are flat), there is something to say about the universe explored and some of the themes, which I would assume to be rather similar to the source. These are the components that don't engage me that I deem to be of his creation. I'm very aware that much was changed and left out of Higurashi in such a fashion that Ryukishi had to write anime original episodes in Kai to fill in the gap. After being apart of the Umineko discussion, I became very aware of what was and wasn't left out/changed/given more airtime in the anime as opposed to the VN. Fanboys made it hard not to recognize it. I also noted in a previous post that Kai is my favorite season/adaptation of his work, and yet it's not strong enough to offset what I watched in here or in Umineko. To go back to you Harry Potter simile, I can watch those movies, see Jo Rowling's writing in the names of places, magic, characters, characterization, etc. and see that the books are something I'd like to read. I did that after watching the first two movies, and was greatly satisfied with the whole world created in the books. On top of that, when I watch the movie adaptations, I'm very aware of a lot of the necessary plot points that are missing, and I worry about how they'll be tied up in the final film. But that doesn't mean that as individual movies they succeed to me. Artistically, the adaptors, directors, and crew get the idea of the story, and they are great at translating the books into a feature-length format. That type of inspired characterization/description is only found in one character from 07th Expansion's works--Rika. I'm not pinning my hopes on the anime to inspire me to check out the original source. I simply noted that compared to other adaptations, anime based on visual novels don't compel me to even consider consuming the source, because of a lack of a linear plot that almost always means that the production company sourcing the material feels like they have to throw a bone to viewers. That type of hurdle just isn't found from any other source, except maybe games. That's why I've pretty much given up on VN/game adaptations to be good, even though I may watch one every season in the hopes that my mind changes. I don't think it's judging a book by it's cover; if that were the case, I would have read Higurashi and Umineko in the same way that I watched the shows. |
noteDheroMar 27, 2010 9:06 AM
noteDhero said: Well, there really isn't an 'endless debate' to start since it already happened, and I'm just rehashing the same thoughts over again. Your advice on adaptations is exactly what the last person tried to educate me on. I'm already aware of this fact, and that's why I make the note about saying "based on all three of his works." Even though there isn't much to say specifically on any of his adaptations (except that most of his characters are flat), there is something to say about the universe explored and some of the themes, which I would assume to be rather similar to the source. These are the components that don't engage me that I deem to be of his creation. I'm very aware that much was changed and left out of Higurashi in such a fashion that Ryukishi had to write anime original episodes in Kai to fill in the gap. After being apart of the Umineko discussion, I became very aware of what was and wasn't left out/changed/given more airtime in the anime as opposed to the VN. Fanboys made it hard not to recognize it. I also noted in a previous post that Kai is my favorite season/adaptation of his work, and yet it's not strong enough to offset what I watched in here or in Umineko. To go back to you Harry Potter simile, I can watch those movies, see Jo Rowling's writing in the names of places, magic, characters, characterization, etc. and see that the books are something I'd like to read. I did that after watching the first two movies, and was greatly satisfied with the whole world created in the books. On top of that, when I watch the movie adaptations, I'm very aware of a lot of the necessary plot points that are missing, and I worry about how they'll be tied up in the final film. But that doesn't mean that as individual movies they succeed to me. Artistically, the adaptors, directors, and crew get the idea of the story, and they are great at translating the books into a feature-length format. That type of inspired characterization/description is only found in one character from 07th Expansion's works--Rika. I'm not pinning my hopes on the anime to inspire me to check out the original source. I simply noted that compared to other adaptations, anime based on visual novels don't compel me to even consider consuming the source, because of a lack of a linear plot that almost always means that the production company sourcing the material feels like they have to throw a bone to viewers. That type of hurdle just isn't found from any other source, except maybe games. That's why I've pretty much given up on VN/game adaptations to be good, even though I may watch one every season in the hopes that my mind changes. I don't think it's judging a book by it's cover; if that were the case, I would have read Higurashi and Umineko in the same way that I watched the shows. You didn't need to give me the paragraphs mate. Believe it or not I actually understand where you are coming from. I think that same way about Lord of the rings. I watched the first movie ages ago in cinema because the trailer interested me. It was the only movie that I ever fell asleep in the middle of watching. It bored me to tears. Even after being forced to watch the sequels by my friends it still bored me. If somebody told me that the books were far better and that I should read them I would be saying the exact same things as you are saying. The setting didn't interest me, the characters were bland, etc so I have no reason to check out the books. All I am saying here is maybe, in some time where you have nothing to do it might be nice to just say "Screw it!" and check out the source. And who knows? You might actually be surprised. |
"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila." |
| @noteDhero: Well that sounds a little bit like the topics featured in Ryukishis works don't interest you, so I'm starting to wonder why you even checked the anime out. Just because the universe and the topics don't fit your taste, it doesn't make the material inherently bad. It just starts to feel like you know you won't like a certain genre but still watch it, just to dislike it. Concerning his characters, yes, in the adaptions they were flat as cardboard, which is my main-concern with every adaption. You may believe it or not, but that was a point that was more or less constantly removed from all three of them. Rika's development in Higurashi couldn't be removed because it was part of the plot and many things wouldn't have made sense otherwise...a mistake that the Ôkamikakushi adaption did. But Keiichi, Mion/Shion and essentially every sidecharacter (like Oishi or Irie) was robbed of development apart from very broad one-liners that categorized them in their basic functions. Besides your critique of the non-linear plot-structure. This is something so far only found in Ôkamikakushi among the Ryukishi works, so pinning this label on his works is a bit wrong. I prefer a linear plotline, too, yet your blame seems a bit unreasoned. It isn't about throwing a bone to the viewers...most of the time the adaptors are just unable to restructure the plot or maybe just concentrate on one plotline, it's basically not a fault of the source but one of the adaption. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| I'm curious though as to where Sakaki got another knife.. If I'm not mistaken, he left the knife he had in Kasai's chest, didn't he? >.>... I kinda doubt he'd bring 2 knives tbh. Inconsitent. Bleh. Also.. That's a pretty big rock to be moved around like that.. Isn't it? And once agian, Hiroshi is a derp. Not just that, he tries to reason with someone who just tried to drench a whole town. Awwww Hiroshi should've been shot. : < Derp. |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
| wow ... actually they could just end at episode 11 lol |
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seizonsha said: @noteDhero: Well that sounds a little bit like the topics featured in Ryukishis works don't interest you, so I'm starting to wonder why you even checked the anime out. Just because the universe and the topics don't fit your taste, it doesn't make the material inherently bad. It just starts to feel like you know you won't like a certain genre but still watch it, just to dislike it. Concerning his characters, yes, in the adaptions they were flat as cardboard, which is my main-concern with every adaption. You may believe it or not, but that was a point that was more or less constantly removed from all three of them. Rika's development in Higurashi couldn't be removed because it was part of the plot and many things wouldn't have made sense otherwise...a mistake that the Ôkamikakushi adaption did. But Keiichi, Mion/Shion and essentially every sidecharacter (like Oishi or Irie) was robbed of development apart from very broad one-liners that categorized them in their basic functions. Besides your critique of the non-linear plot-structure. This is something so far only found in Ôkamikakushi among the Ryukishi works, so pinning this label on his works is a bit wrong. I prefer a linear plotline, too, yet your blame seems a bit unreasoned. It isn't about throwing a bone to the viewers...most of the time the adaptors are just unable to restructure the plot or maybe just concentrate on one plotline, it's basically not a fault of the source but one of the adaption. I liked Higurashi Kai, so I watched Umineko hoping to get more of the same type of narrative. I got the same structure inside relatively the same universe with a bunch of pseudo-intellectualism, and a lot of nothing. I was utterly disappointed, and decided not to watch anything from 07th Expansion again, besides Umineko's answer arcs, unaware of Ookamikakushi. I watched the first episode of this, made my somewhat infamous comment attacking the show's apparent mediocrity, and was flamed by Ryukishi fanboys/fangirls. I was already watching the show, it was just 12 episodes, and there was some trollish gay content in the show that I wanted to see people's reaction to, so I kept watching. It's that simple. Had I known about the creators of the source, I wouldn't have given the show a second thought. Of course I know what genres I do and don't like. That doesn't mean that I won't try a few here and there to see if something won't be an exception, though. To do otherwise is just petulant in my book. I don't like the sports genre in general, but I love Touch, Cross Game, and Ookiku Furikabutte, despite also disliking baseball. I don't like shounen action shows, but I still enjoy Naruto and Hunter x Hunter. Good is good regardless of the genre. My critique on non-linear plot structure had more to do with my thoughts on visual novel adaptations as a whole. Higurashi and Umineko have much deeper problems totally unique to both their structure and the fact that they are adapted in the middle of the source material being published. Regardless, though, I absolutely think that the failure of shows like Chaos;Head, Phantom, and Key's VN adaptations is because they want to give viewers fanservice. They throw in little bits and pieces of plot not relevant to the main story in order to show off how sexy, cute, and moe the side girls are. Or they sloppily incorporate other plot-lines in order to include everyone. I have a problem with that mindset. When I finish a VN adaptation and think, "they wasted x number of episodes on these tangential characters at the expense of a coherent plot" I get angry. And I just remembered a VN adaptation I liked: Tears to Tiara...even though all the women besides Olivia were all portrayed as co-dependent, weak, and annoying, despite them being so strong and better than the much more positively portrayed Arthur. |
noteDheroMar 30, 2010 12:36 AM
Mimi_Taylor said: Yay, only one more episode left to torture myself with. Then I shall be free. o_o my thoughts exactly |
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| ... damn Mieko for ruining everything >_>... I expected Sakaki to have a decent death... |
| Is it just me or did the voice acting ended up in a BIG BIG FAILURE? Oh well, everything on this anime was a failure, except for some bit of creepy stuff in the middle and the sad musit at the end... Seriously, Sakaki wend dumb? At first I thought that he was a m*fuckling genious but then...?? Of course, I am wounded and leave through the front door, also leaving everything as it was, not caring about the fact that the dam can be closed again by the push of a single button? Oh you, R07, you left me in despair. Also any1 noticed that Hiro's monolouge at the end was some kind of "SECOND SEASONZ ZOMFG"-signal? |: |
YurikoRaine said: Also any1 noticed that Hiro's monolouge at the end was some kind of "SECOND SEASONZ ZOMFG"-signal? |: Sweet Jesus I hope not. |
| I like how nobody called out Hiroshi's name when a shot was fired so close to him. Just goes to show what kind of loser he is. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| just horrible how many redo of higurashi they gonna do untill they decide to do something new 1 from me. |
| I just wanna congrats This show. They made a dam that is by no means useful to them yet they made it so that you can open it for whatever reason. And knowing that the dam is dangerous they only left 1 person in charge of the whole dam that can destroy the town WIN ;D. frankly i loved this episode it was pretty great but im still not hapy with the way they implemented the whole anime. It could have been muh better. |
Awesome Sig by Lailide |
| Nice episode I do wonder what the next final episode will contain! |
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| I can accept everything but Hiro-kun is worse than a third rate mob character. That totally blew an awesome anime with lots of potential. But at least I enjoyed the mysterious vibe before everything came to light. The fights and music were good.. but the pacing is really slow indeed. There's one more episode ?! That's a surprise... |
| Ryukishi07 has a thing for dams. Damn it. Pun intended. |
| I feel like they were expecting to end the series with this episode, it feels over... what is episode 12 like? Probably like an OVA, covering the events that take place after the main story? Or maybe just a filler episode... guess I'll watch anyway. |
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| What an annoying episode. No one did anything except offering themselves up to be shot. He turned his back of them several times but who cares when you want to be shot. Retarded. |
| The plot armor is too strong for our protagonists, only a few houses have been crushed and some people left the town. |
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