Did eren need zeke?

Jan 15, 7:22 PM

#2

Riz_III

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May 2022

102

Damn my guy is asking the important questions.
Never even thought about that tbh.

Jan 15, 9:11 PM

#3

ktg

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May 2016

1822

You don't really need to think about it. S4 has many plot holes that make no sense. Isayama gave up being consistent and always went with the bigger plot twists even if it made no sense.

Jan 15, 9:25 PM

#4

DerpySven

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Aug 2021

332

ktg said:
You don't really need to think about it. S4 has many plot holes that make no sense. Isayama gave up being consistent and always went with the bigger plot twists even if it made no sense.

it isnt a plot hole i am talking abt... what plotholes have u found?

Jan 15, 11:36 PM

#5

dk107_

Offline

Jul 2021

1747

Yes, Eren needed Zeke during the entire Rumbling just like when they were in paths before because Zeke being of royal blood was the connection between Eren and Ymir. This is why the Rumbling stopped with Zeke's death.

You are correct on the point of Ymir giving the full power to Eren but Eren doesn't have royal blood which is a very important thing in AoT. He had unlocked the founder's full power but Zeke's presence was still necessary for the Rumbling.

Also, about how he was able to transform in the colossal titan form, then that is because of the founding titan which he has. FT allows the ability of titan creation to its user. And as we know that Eren had unlocked the FT's full power, which is why he was able to transform again in the end.

dk107_Jan 15, 11:41 PM

Jan 16, 12:03 AM

#6

DerpySven

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Aug 2021

332

dk107_ said:
Yes, Eren needed Zeke during the entire Rumbling just like when they were in paths before because Zeke being of royal blood was the connection between Eren and Ymir. This is why the Rumbling stopped with Zeke's death.

You are correct on the point of Ymir giving the full power to Eren but Eren doesn't have royal blood which is a very important thing in AoT. He had unlocked the founder's full power but Zeke's presence was still necessary for the Rumbling.

Also, about how he was able to transform in the colossal titan form, then that is because of the founding titan which he has. FT allows the ability of titan creation to its user. And as we know that Eren had unlocked the FT's full power, which is why he was able to transform again in the end.

i dont think u get my point. i know the whole thing abt royal blood ofc. but like eren said ymir isnt a good or a slave she made her own choice to choose for eren. so they sided thats why my question is if zeke was still relevant at that point.

Jan 16, 12:17 AM

#7

dk107_

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Jul 2021

1747

DerpySven said:
i dont think u get my point. i know the whole thing abt royal blood ofc. but like eren said ymir isnt a good or a slave she made her own choice to choose for eren. so they sided thats why my question is if zeke was still relevant at that point.

I'm pretty sure I got your point. It's true that they had sided but Ymir was only freed from paths when Eren spoke those words to her and was not completely freed. She only got freed when Eren died along with the worm.

Now about Zeke, yes his role was nearly over after the Rumbling started but he was still needed, due to being a descendant of royal blood. Just like how through coming in contact with each other before, Eren and Zeke were able to access their father's memories. It's just like how Eren first used the founding titan power for a moment when he had punched that smiling titan back in season 2. The smiling titan also had royal blood. It's the same concept here.

Jan 16, 2:09 AM

#8

Jay_Burson-510

Offline

Nov 2020

213

Glad someone raises this question because I want to ask another question that has been bugging me ever since I realized it. WHY THE FUCK DID ZEKE NOT JUST KILL HIMSELF BEFORE TO STOP THE RUMBLING IF ALL IT TOOK WAS JUST KILLING THE REAL BODY. BRO COULD HAVE LITERALLY SPAWNED HIMSELF IN THE FOOT OF THE EREN TITAN TO KILL HIMSELF OR BETTER YET, FUCKING KILL HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN HANDS.

And I know many are gonna say "If Armin didn't convince him that life is precious, he would've let it slide". My response to that is simple, Zeke was never supportive of Eren's decision and actively sought out to prevent it. From what we saw before the rumbling, the reason Zeke was unable to stop was because he was overpowered by Eren through Ymir. He can't leave, he can't do anything. SO HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ZEKE WAS ABLE TO FREE HIMSELF AT THE END. AND BEFORE YOU SAY BECAUSE THE OTHER TITAN USERS IN THE PATHS HELPED HIM, WHAT STOPPED THEM BEFORE FROM HELPING THEM. WHAT THE FUCK. THEY SOMEHOW MADE US CONVINCE THAT A SHITTY ASS FRANKLY UNDERWHELMING SPEECH ABOUT LIFE WAS ENOUGH TO BREAK EREN AND YMIR'S HOLD ON THEM.

Now another explanation is that oh that was Ymir's intervention, having allowed them to be free at that exact moment. To that I say, I would take any other explanation other than that because honestly, if that is the real reason, then this show literally has no stakes at that point.

Jan 16, 6:53 AM

#9

Aufym

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Mar 2023

20

Jay_Burson-510 said:
Glad someone raises this question because I want to ask another question that has been bugging me ever since I realized it. WHY THE FUCK DID ZEKE NOT JUST KILL HIMSELF BEFORE TO STOP THE RUMBLING IF ALL IT TOOK WAS JUST KILLING THE REAL BODY. BRO COULD HAVE LITERALLY SPAWNED HIMSELF IN THE FOOT OF THE EREN TITAN TO KILL HIMSELF OR BETTER YET, FUCKING KILL HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN HANDS.

And I know many are gonna say "If Armin didn't convince him that life is precious, he would've let it slide". My response to that is simple, Zeke was never supportive of Eren's decision and actively sought out to prevent it. From what we saw before the rumbling, the reason Zeke was unable to stop was because he was overpowered by Eren through Ymir. He can't leave, he can't do anything. SO HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ZEKE WAS ABLE TO FREE HIMSELF AT THE END. AND BEFORE YOU SAY BECAUSE THE OTHER TITAN USERS IN THE PATHS HELPED HIM, WHAT STOPPED THEM BEFORE FROM HELPING THEM. WHAT THE FUCK. THEY SOMEHOW MADE US CONVINCE THAT A SHITTY ASS FRANKLY UNDERWHELMING SPEECH ABOUT LIFE WAS ENOUGH TO BREAK EREN AND YMIR'S HOLD ON THEM.

Now another explanation is that oh that was Ymir's intervention, having allowed them to be free at that exact moment. To that I say, I would take any other explanation other than that because honestly, if that is the real reason, then this show literally has no stakes at that point.

How will zeke kill himself in paths?

Jan 16, 8:50 AM

#10

1Toxic2

Offline

Apr 2023

43

i always considered the rumbling stopping after zeke getting killed as a plot hole tbh , imo it doesn't make sense for eren to stop the rumbling there simply because he did mention that no matter what he does he couldn't change his destiny as a slave for freedom like his nature but i mean that could still be HIs future and will to stop before he wipes out the rest of them ..idk it's just that the show made it seem like it was zeke's doing ..so im not sure about that

Jan 16, 9:00 AM

#11

1Toxic2

Offline

Apr 2023

43

Jay_Burson-510 said:
Glad someone raises this question because I want to ask another question that has been bugging me ever since I realized it. WHY THE FUCK DID ZEKE NOT JUST KILL HIMSELF BEFORE TO STOP THE RUMBLING IF ALL IT TOOK WAS JUST KILLING THE REAL BODY. BRO COULD HAVE LITERALLY SPAWNED HIMSELF IN THE FOOT OF THE EREN TITAN TO KILL HIMSELF OR BETTER YET, FUCKING KILL HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN HANDS.

And I know many are gonna say "If Armin didn't convince him that life is precious, he would've let it slide". My response to that is simple, Zeke was never supportive of Eren's decision and actively sought out to prevent it. From what we saw before the rumbling, the reason Zeke was unable to stop was because he was overpowered by Eren through Ymir. He can't leave, he can't do anything. SO HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ZEKE WAS ABLE TO FREE HIMSELF AT THE END. AND BEFORE YOU SAY BECAUSE THE OTHER TITAN USERS IN THE PATHS HELPED HIM, WHAT STOPPED THEM BEFORE FROM HELPING THEM. WHAT THE FUCK. THEY SOMEHOW MADE US CONVINCE THAT A SHITTY ASS FRANKLY UNDERWHELMING SPEECH ABOUT LIFE WAS ENOUGH TO BREAK EREN AND YMIR'S HOLD ON THEM.

Now another explanation is that oh that was Ymir's intervention, having allowed them to be free at that exact moment. To that I say, I would take any other explanation other than that because honestly, if that is the real reason, then this show literally has no stakes at that point.

it's true that zeke could've killed himself but i think what happened was .. zeke simply didn't and expressed why he doesn't want to because as he was talking to armin he basically said but "why are you trying to save them ? we all die someday " and also mentioned that "the moment before death might just bring peace or some shit" because let's be real here zeke was also just trying to exterminate every single eldian so that the wouldn't have to suffer again and "everyone would be happy" while what eren did was a violent but still kind of the same goal zeke had which is *kill all the people on the other side so there is no war anymore* .. but we all know that's just not how it goes and it's shown clearly in the ending

Jan 16, 9:45 AM

#12

ktg

Offline

May 2016

1822

Reply to DerpySven

ktg said:
You don't really need to think about it. S4 has many plot holes that make no sense. Isayama gave up being consistent and always went with the bigger plot twists even if it made no sense.

it isnt a plot hole i am talking abt... what plotholes have u found?

@DerpySven Like I said, there are several one.
For example, the rumbling shouldn't have started. To start it, you need the founding titan's power. And we know that the titan power is in the shifter's body, not in his head.
If you remember when Levi attacked Reiner and almost cut off his head, Reiner had to transfer his consciousness into his body, because you need the consciousness and the titan power to turn into a titan. Therefore when Zeke touched Eren's head, there wasn't any titan power in that head, that was a regular head.
And in S4, there are like 10 things I could easily question, because made no sense.

Jan 16, 11:03 AM

#13

Miry4316

Offline

Oct 2022

100

ktg said:
@DerpySven Like I said, there are several one.
For example, the rumbling shouldn't have started. To start it, you need the founding titan's power. And we know that the titan power is in the shifter's body, not in his head.
If you remember when Levi attacked Reiner and almost cut off his head, Reiner had to transfer his consciousness into his body, because you need the consciousness and the titan power to turn into a titan. Therefore when Zeke touched Eren's head, there wasn't any titan power in that head, that was a regular head.
And in S4, there are like 10 things I could easily question, because made no sense.

if Reiner had to TRANSFER his consciousness in his BODY, where do you think the consciousness was BEFORE getting transferred, his feet? lol ;-; The titan consciousness is not only in the body, it's pretty much everywhere, so even in the head.
Eren's head was cut off. The "worm" literally left Eren's body so that it could connect to Eren's head, to start the rumbling. Because literally, the whole purpose of the "worm" is to live, since it represents Life itself.

Miry4316Jan 16, 11:48 AM

Jan 16, 11:45 AM

#14

Jay_Burson-510

Offline

Nov 2020

213

1Toxic2 said:

Jay_Burson-510 said:
Glad someone raises this question because I want to ask another question that has been bugging me ever since I realized it. WHY THE FUCK DID ZEKE NOT JUST KILL HIMSELF BEFORE TO STOP THE RUMBLING IF ALL IT TOOK WAS JUST KILLING THE REAL BODY. BRO COULD HAVE LITERALLY SPAWNED HIMSELF IN THE FOOT OF THE EREN TITAN TO KILL HIMSELF OR BETTER YET, FUCKING KILL HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN HANDS.

And I know many are gonna say "If Armin didn't convince him that life is precious, he would've let it slide". My response to that is simple, Zeke was never supportive of Eren's decision and actively sought out to prevent it. From what we saw before the rumbling, the reason Zeke was unable to stop was because he was overpowered by Eren through Ymir. He can't leave, he can't do anything. SO HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ZEKE WAS ABLE TO FREE HIMSELF AT THE END. AND BEFORE YOU SAY BECAUSE THE OTHER TITAN USERS IN THE PATHS HELPED HIM, WHAT STOPPED THEM BEFORE FROM HELPING THEM. WHAT THE FUCK. THEY SOMEHOW MADE US CONVINCE THAT A SHITTY ASS FRANKLY UNDERWHELMING SPEECH ABOUT LIFE WAS ENOUGH TO BREAK EREN AND YMIR'S HOLD ON THEM.

Now another explanation is that oh that was Ymir's intervention, having allowed them to be free at that exact moment. To that I say, I would take any other explanation other than that because honestly, if that is the real reason, then this show literally has no stakes at that point.

it's true that zeke could've killed himself but i think what happened was .. zeke simply didn't and expressed why he doesn't want to because as he was talking to armin he basically said but "why are you trying to save them ? we all die someday " and also mentioned that "the moment before death might just bring peace or some shit" because let's be real here zeke was also just trying to exterminate every single eldian so that the wouldn't have to suffer again and "everyone would be happy" while what eren did was a violent but still kind of the same goal zeke had which is *kill all the people on the other side so there is no war anymore* .. but we all know that's just not how it goes and it's shown clearly in the ending

True, but his hatred didn't extend to the entire human race. While it does imply in the paths that he does not care about human life, why would he let Eren kill everyone in the outside world when he could literally stop it anytime.

I do kinda see your point that Zeke literally was just intimidated by Eren and Ymir that he let them do as they please as nothing matters anymore to him at thaat point. I still don't find it satisfying, and I still dislike the idea that Armin's little pep talk was enough to make him save the world. Like I get that his ideas where in direct opposition to Zeke's philosophies but how did that make him think that other people should have the right to live or that he should still do something at this point considering who Zeke is. Like almost everything in this ending, it doesn't contradict anything but, it could've been way better than this.

Jan 16, 3:21 PM

#15

1Toxic2

Offline

Apr 2023

43

Jay_Burson-510 said:

1Toxic2 said:

it's true that zeke could've killed himself but i think what happened was .. zeke simply didn't and expressed why he doesn't want to because as he was talking to armin he basically said but "why are you trying to save them ? we all die someday " and also mentioned that "the moment before death might just bring peace or some shit" because let's be real here zeke was also just trying to exterminate every single eldian so that the wouldn't have to suffer again and "everyone would be happy" while what eren did was a violent but still kind of the same goal zeke had which is *kill all the people on the other side so there is no war anymore* .. but we all know that's just not how it goes and it's shown clearly in the ending

True, but his hatred didn't extend to the entire human race. While it does imply in the paths that he does not care about human life, why would he let Eren kill everyone in the outside world when he could literally stop it anytime.

I do kinda see your point that Zeke literally was just intimidated by Eren and Ymir that he let them do as they please as nothing matters anymore to him at thaat point. I still don't find it satisfying, and I still dislike the idea that Armin's little pep talk was enough to make him save the world. Like I get that his ideas where in direct opposition to Zeke's philosophies but how did that make him think that other people should have the right to live or that he should still do something at this point considering who Zeke is. Like almost everything in this ending, it doesn't contradict anything but, it could've been way better than this.

im ngl i do agree that they could've done stuff better in the ending like aot's storytelling was great and unexpected twists were like always natural to some extent but the ending kina made it so that everything is convenient for the sake of the ending , i mean tbh this whole zeke stops rumbling doesn't even make sense in the first place lol .. although i do have to say zeke is one of my favs , it kinda hurts to see him done like that though tbf he wasn't done all THAT bad but they could've also done him better .. but honestly what i like about his character conclusion is that he went out to kill himself not because he gave up on his plan on the sterilization of the eldians but because he finally understood the feeling of just dumb precious joyful memories of life even though it didn't serve a purpose . i actually did like the idea though i think the reason why alot of people didn't is because it was done so quickly and it's just bad writing wise like they could've given us more of what's really on his mind but oh well ..

1Toxic2Jan 16, 3:24 PM

Jan 17, 3:19 AM

#16

Miry4316

Offline

Oct 2022

100

What do you not understand of Zeke dying= the rumbling stops? ;-;
Think of it as a kind of contract:
Eren has the piece of paper.
Zeke has the ink.
Ymir has the pen.
With no ink, no pen, so no contract.
So no rumbling.

Jan 17, 5:59 AM

#17

ktg

Offline

May 2016

1822

Reply to Miry4316

ktg said:
@DerpySven Like I said, there are several one.
For example, the rumbling shouldn't have started. To start it, you need the founding titan's power. And we know that the titan power is in the shifter's body, not in his head.
If you remember when Levi attacked Reiner and almost cut off his head, Reiner had to transfer his consciousness into his body, because you need the consciousness and the titan power to turn into a titan. Therefore when Zeke touched Eren's head, there wasn't any titan power in that head, that was a regular head.
And in S4, there are like 10 things I could easily question, because made no sense.

if Reiner had to TRANSFER his consciousness in his BODY, where do you think the consciousness was BEFORE getting transferred, his feet? lol ;-; The titan consciousness is not only in the body, it's pretty much everywhere, so even in the head.
Eren's head was cut off. The "worm" literally left Eren's body so that it could connect to Eren's head, to start the rumbling. Because literally, the whole purpose of the "worm" is to live, since it represents Life itself.

@Miry4316 Lol, why did he have to transfer? That's the correct question.
It means that the consciousness is normally in the head and it needs a connection to the titan power. If you need to transfer it, when someone cuts off your head or stabs through it, that means the titan power is not in the head, but in the torso.
It definitely cannot be everywhere, because they don't need to transfer it when you cut off their hands. It was also mentioned that this is a risky thing to do and usually no one does this, based on this we know it's not everywhere.

If you could transfer the power from your body, then Reiner would have also mentioned it as an alternative, but he didn't, because this is not a thing. The power is in the shifter's torso, and the consciousness needs a connection to it.
This is pretty clearly how Isayama imagined to work, that's why the titan's weakness is their nape. In case of shifters it is pretty obvious, because normally that's where the shifters' human body is, but with normal titans it is not that clear, but this explanation makes it.

That's why this is a plot hole.

Jan 18, 1:33 PM

#18

MK17_2

Offline

Jan 2019

638

Just a thought. Sorry this may deviate from your main point.

Maybe it’s much simpler. Maybe it was so that Levi could have a satisfying ending. Cause they really did him dirty.

The way Levi took zeke out sweetened it. He vowed to take him down and he did. Would you be okay with that epic scene being left out?
Again, just a simple thought.

Feb 3, 1:57 AM

#19

DerpySven

Offline

Aug 2021

332

Reply to Miry4316

What do you not understand of Zeke dying= the rumbling stops? ;-;
Think of it as a kind of contract:
Eren has the piece of paper.
Zeke has the ink.
Ymir has the pen.
With no ink, no pen, so no contract.
So no rumbling.

@Miry4316
ymir choose eren right? she choose not to follow zeke bc she wants to support eren. so eren is maybe the ink now :)

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