 I don't watch dubs, but dubs are notoriously heavily censored. Who is gonna own the copyright outside Japan still has to respect the script but usually the jap authors don't really care they prefer a slightly different translation to not making money. If there are companies outside japan that own anime copyright and every time do heavily change the script you just don't watch their dubs. Fansubs are not safe either, sometimes subs are made by terrible groups. Learning jap is way too complicated, the best would be asking directly some jap or having a jap friend. I don't care but if I would I'll stick with a fansub crew I do trust that has some good reputation. Again sometimes there are terms and concepts that don't even exist in other countries, i.e. the one that encompasses the concept "lost in translation". |
| Translating is always a bit tricky, especially from Japanese. I used to think it was an issue of subs vs dubs, but now I know enough Japanese to catch a lot of instances where the subs are also a weird translation (or plain old mistakes!) This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent. Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen. For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural. Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning. It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not. The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind. |
Reply to Sajjoz
That's why I always watch Hentai without subs
Sajjoz said: That's why I always watch Hentai without subs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
Reply to Ri-chan
Translating is always a bit tricky, especially from Japanese. I used to think it was an issue of subs vs dubs, but now I know enough Japanese to catch a lot of instances where the subs are also a weird translation (or plain old mistakes!)
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
| @Ri-chan Some excellent points here. One of the times I wish we could thumbs up comments 🥂 |
Reply to Ri-chan
Translating is always a bit tricky, especially from Japanese. I used to think it was an issue of subs vs dubs, but now I know enough Japanese to catch a lot of instances where the subs are also a weird translation (or plain old mistakes!)
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
| @Ri-chan I'll also say that this was a well written and refreshing take on the subject. We could use more responses like this on the sub v dub topic. |
Reply to Ri-chan
Translating is always a bit tricky, especially from Japanese. I used to think it was an issue of subs vs dubs, but now I know enough Japanese to catch a lot of instances where the subs are also a weird translation (or plain old mistakes!)
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
| @Ri-chan So all in all, the director whos responsible for this "script" localization has a massive stick up his ass and thinks he knows best. Funny, how other shows can translate everything without problems ... .. . |
 |
Reply to Ri-chan
Translating is always a bit tricky, especially from Japanese. I used to think it was an issue of subs vs dubs, but now I know enough Japanese to catch a lot of instances where the subs are also a weird translation (or plain old mistakes!)
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
This isn’t exclusive to any one show or studio. It’s just a part of the process to an extent.
Dubs get changed for a lot of reasons aside from censorship (which isn’t nearly as common today as it was in the past). A big one is the actor not being able to get the line out quickly enough in the booth on the day. Or it just sounds awkward in context when translated literally. Occasionally they have to make up dialogue to fill character lip movement on screen.
For subs, the issue is often keeping subtitles brief enough to be legible. If a character is speaking quickly and densely, it’s tough to make sure the audience can actually read everything. Since Japanese has a very different grammar structure to English, it’s often the case that what a character is actually speaking is very different than the subtitle displayed under it at that moment. Thus, when a character is interrupted mid sentence the translator has to make assumptions about what was going to be said in order to make the translation sound natural.
Also, there is the conundrum of localization. At one end, you have Pokémon turning onigiri into donuts and sandwiches. At the other you have things like リアン being translated as “Rian” instead of the more likely intended meaning “Liam” (as has happened in this series). It’s counterintuitive, but literal translation can obscure meaning.
It’s a squishy imperfect process. As far as who allows it, it’s different from project to project, but usually it’s the studio doing the release that does the translating and the studio back in Japan gives approval. But that’s for the initial translation and not necessarily the final product. It’s a rubber stamp more often than not.
The only way to remove the “hand of the west” is to go live in Japan for 20+ years and become fully fluent in the language. Translation aside, our own biases will always color our interpretations of these works because we will always lack a full cultural context (particularly since Japanese has so many nuances). My advice would be to stop stressing it and enjoy these shows however you best can, while keeping your biases in mind.
| @Ri-chan Excellent explanation! Many years ago, I watched a few videos on this topic, & you summed them up beautifully. |
 |
Reply to Swagernator
@Ri-chan So all in all, the director whos responsible for this "script" localization has a massive stick up his ass and thinks he knows best.
Funny, how other shows can translate everything without problems ... .. .
Funny, how other shows can translate everything without problems ... .. .
| @Swagernator so, you read that excellent essay and got out of it, it is all the director's fault and he has an agenda? you're a special kind of person aren't you? do you know what the name of the ADR Director is at Funi-Roll who is doing this English dub? do you know the names of the translators and the screenwriters? do you own the disks of this show and have watched the commentary tracks to try and learn if they mention why some things were written in some ways? are you going to do any research at all and figure out whether or not your snarky lil statement has anything to back it up? or are you just writing this silly sentence because you want to say something controversial and meanspirited? how would you know other shows translate everything without problems? are you fluent in ALL the languages anime is translated into? how's your Tamil? Russian? Portuguese? Spanish? Farsi? Tagalong? Japanese? are you watching every single sub and dub in every single language that somebody is putting out there to allow the WORLD to watch anime? translate everything, does. mean. everything. all the things. howabout how the Japanese translate other languages into theirs? are you fact checking THEIR work and snarking on them for THEIR errors? are you on a VPN leaving petty and pithy little comments on the Japanese message boards for US, British, Australian, and other TV shows on how poorly their works are translated? maybe you need to remove the massive HEAD up your ass and stop thinking you know best? it must be highly stuffy up in there and cranium rectum disease definitely makes it hard for you to sit down... without breaking your own neck. |
KiliianSleipnirDec 21, 2023 1:34 PM
just an ol school American otaku enjoyin the life. don't sass me kiddies, i've been otaku probably since before you were born. leave me in peace and i won't bother you either.  |
Reply to KiliianSleipnir
@Swagernator so, you read that excellent essay and got out of it, it is all the director's fault and he has an agenda? you're a special kind of person aren't you?
do you know what the name of the ADR Director is at Funi-Roll who is doing this English dub? do you know the names of the translators and the screenwriters? do you own the disks of this show and have watched the commentary tracks to try and learn if they mention why some things were written in some ways? are you going to do any research at all and figure out whether or not your snarky lil statement has anything to back it up? or are you just writing this silly sentence because you want to say something controversial and meanspirited?
how would you know other shows translate everything without problems? are you fluent in ALL the languages anime is translated into? how's your Tamil? Russian? Portuguese? Spanish? Farsi? Tagalong? Japanese? are you watching every single sub and dub in every single language that somebody is putting out there to allow the WORLD to watch anime? translate everything, does. mean. everything. all the things. howabout how the Japanese translate other languages into theirs? are you fact checking THEIR work and snarking on them for THEIR errors? are you on a VPN leaving petty and pithy little comments on the Japanese message boards for US, British, Australian, and other TV shows on how poorly their works are translated?
maybe you need to remove the massive HEAD up your ass and stop thinking you know best? it must be highly stuffy up in there and cranium rectum disease definitely makes it hard for you to sit down... without breaking your own neck.
do you know what the name of the ADR Director is at Funi-Roll who is doing this English dub? do you know the names of the translators and the screenwriters? do you own the disks of this show and have watched the commentary tracks to try and learn if they mention why some things were written in some ways? are you going to do any research at all and figure out whether or not your snarky lil statement has anything to back it up? or are you just writing this silly sentence because you want to say something controversial and meanspirited?
how would you know other shows translate everything without problems? are you fluent in ALL the languages anime is translated into? how's your Tamil? Russian? Portuguese? Spanish? Farsi? Tagalong? Japanese? are you watching every single sub and dub in every single language that somebody is putting out there to allow the WORLD to watch anime? translate everything, does. mean. everything. all the things. howabout how the Japanese translate other languages into theirs? are you fact checking THEIR work and snarking on them for THEIR errors? are you on a VPN leaving petty and pithy little comments on the Japanese message boards for US, British, Australian, and other TV shows on how poorly their works are translated?
maybe you need to remove the massive HEAD up your ass and stop thinking you know best? it must be highly stuffy up in there and cranium rectum disease definitely makes it hard for you to sit down... without breaking your own neck.
| @KiliianSleipnir Calm down grandpa, writer strike is over already. |
|
Reply to Swagernator
@KiliianSleipnir Calm down grandpa, writer strike is over already.
| @Swagernator yikes, ageism rears its ugly... oh nevermind... your head is still up your rear. also, i'm only in my 40's... is your granpa as young as me? he is a lucky guy if he is. |
| just an ol school American otaku enjoyin the life. don't sass me kiddies, i've been otaku probably since before you were born. leave me in peace and i won't bother you either. |
| Honestly though, I feel like a boy who's in love with a girl getting called a stalker is extremely common in anime... so it doesn't even feel out of place, or forced, lol. |
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