Jaku-Chara Tomozaki-kun Episode 11 Discussion

Offline

Jan 2020

62

I was fearful they would screw up the adaptation at this part of the story because the internal dialogues were essential, but they knocked it out of the fucking park. The main message was adapted, and the visuals and music at the fireworks scene really worked in its favor. I wish I could directly support the production of this show somehow, but the blu-rays are extremely expensive in my country due to the currency conversion. Luckily I can have the light novel e-book instead.

Mar 23, 2021 2:39 PM

#156

Offline

Jan 2020

62

juniorrrbello said:

MangaZed said:

MenchiK1 said:
Wow I'm so surprised this has gone over everyone's head and they are cheering Tomozaki and calling Aoi a bitch. Really? Rewatch two scenes when the blonde confesses to her on the bench and the end where Tomozaki says he doesn't want to be fake any more.
First the bench scene, Aoi pretends to lower her fake persona but in actuality switches to another fake one. Tomozaki notices this, how? He has seen her real personality. Then she explains her basic life philosophy "I think every normal person puts on an act to some extent so we we have to compromise and find that one person we can be our true selves around" (Tomozaki is her one person she is herself around) Blonde guy even says 'I hope someday I get to see it'. That's why she rejected his confession, he only knows "fake" Aoi and she has only known the "fake" him so no point in starting a "fake" relationship. Remember he just confessed he never dates the girls he puts up his act for even though he could since they all fall for it, he's so good at it.
Now go to the bench, Tomozaki tells her I don't want to be fake anymore, and she asks what he means by that and he can't say. She then says "So you're different too" "Your turn is over the second you let go of the controller." Remember her philosophy, she knows everyone puts up a fake personality. When she first met him remember what he did as she was walking away he let loose on how he really felt, she saw he was the "real" Tomozaki he didn't have a fake facade so she decided to help him play "life" by teaching him how to put up that fake personality everyone else does. That's what was holding him back, he was open and honest but mistakenly assumed EVERYONE else was too. Now he comes to her and tells her basically "I don't want to play any more" "I want to be true to myself" basically go back to how he was. You can just see the disappointment in her face that he hasn't learned anything and now she will lose the one person she could be herself around. When she first met him she wasn't looking for someone to play Tackfam with but "life", her being disappointed with him obviously was all part of her act, remember she's always acting, to see if he was someone she could "play" with (not in a manipulative way but helpful and encouraging), and he (and obviously the viewers here too) don't seem to have gotten that. And also that he's fooling himself if he thinks him being "real" will help him with everyone else still being "fake". Remember all the progress he has made so far has been by putting up a fake persona.
I think Aoi is a fascinating character, you often get those characters who "groom" someone into being their perfect partner but I don't think "groom" was the right word with her. You have to use her analogy of playing a game, she was someone at "expert" level tutoring a "noob" and they were both having fun "playing" and just when she thought he was advancing to the next "level" he shuts it all down and quits. I felt really bad for her. She's bored it's like being a chess grandmaster and only people who can play checkers are your only opponents. She saw the potential in him (because of how he played Tackfam) that maybe he could get to her level in life too. I don't find her cynical at all as far as her view on people putting up an act, I'd say she's right for the most part, and as far as the show every character so far has proven her right too. So I don't see how she can be criticized for doing exactly what everyone else is doing.

Oooh, that's why everyone is so mad, this is what I thought as well. Tomozaki stopping the "Fake Persona" should/will cause him to go back to how he was previously, thus making him a bottom-tier character and the entire show starts all over again.

Tbh tomozaki doesn't suit having a fake persona, you could see from his first date with fuuka and other situations that it isn't comfortable for him. And if you think that him removing the persona would make him start over, that makes no sense. He enjoys interacting with people now, he just doesn't want to do stuff like get with fuuka because aoi said so; that's completely different to becoming a bum again like ep 1.

Aoi has been really good for tomozaki and he definitely needed to change, but this episode really makes you realise that aoi isn't actually doing this for tomozaki's sake. Idk why she's doing it but that will probably be answered either next episode or next season (hopefully)

Just to say, I don't dislike aoi's character at all, rather it's the opposite, she's literally the most interesting romance anime character I've seen in a while. And I also don't think aoi is controlling or a psycho, you can tell that she's definitely gone through something that's made her close her shell to everyone. If I'm guessing it's probably traumatic, because I know how easy it is to create a fake persona when you have multiple internal problems in your life.

SPOILER ALERT

Mar 23, 2021 2:44 PM

#157

-Hyunckel-

Offline

Nov 2020

401

Best episode, what a twist! After all, perhaps is Aoi who needs help since the beginning, or at least a better balance. I like this series very much.

Mar 23, 2021 2:49 PM

#158

Offline

Jan 2020

62

MenchiK1 said:

Cobalt-Blue said:

How did it ruin it...? The difference in ideology between Hinami and Fumiya has been hinted at throughout the entire season and I always knew they would have a conflict about it down the line. Mizu didn't influence Fumiya, it's the other way around. Fumiya has always been upfront and honest about his feelings. Mizu wanted to be like Fumiya because he's recognizing that's the RIGHT way to live your life. Not to put up facades and keep everyone at a distance. Everytime Fumiya was told by Hinami to basically be "fake" to get what he wanted he rejected her ideas and handheld shit properly. Mizu and Hinami both feel like they can take thier mask off around Fumiya and Fumiya has been tearing down everyones facades with his honesty. Gamifying life to objective and rehearsal cards is not natural. Some of it is okay as it got Fumiya where he is but you have to stop eventually. Hinami is more Scared then mad at Fumiya because she will feel vulnerable and open to attack if she takes all her mask off. The entire point of this show is showing that being yourself is good and that fake people should be looked down upon by that toxic way of feeling about life. Facades suck. Chase your own happiness. Be open and honest with people. This show was already good but i can see this being a better experience then Oregairu if it gets more seasons.

I don't think that's the point at all, rewatch the episode with Mimimi and the short girl. Aoi is the one who helped because she can recognize facades. Facades aren't good or bad, Mimimi uses hers to cheer people up, for example, but you have to learn to understand them and not be fooled by them. Aoi's doesn't suck, it's made her popular and admired and hasn't hurt anyone, the entire last two episodes was her trying to help those two hook up. How is that bad?

That is bad because in the end what is leveling up is the mask/the character. There's the infinite detachment between the person holding the controller and the character in the screen/the mask. That's the truth fumiya perceived when he heard matsuzawa's afflictions. And that's the point you missed in the episode and overall story.

Mar 23, 2021 3:28 PM

#159

Mariasz

Offline

Jul 2020

110

I LOVE THE FINAL SCENE

he just questioned the goals and the reason of all of the anime proposal like the mangaka plan this to make us uncomfortable and probably we will get the answer in the next episode.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Mar 23, 2021 5:58 PM

#160

Offline

May 2016

1948

Sir_Crusher said:

MenchiK1 said:

I don't think that's the point at all, rewatch the episode with Mimimi and the short girl. Aoi is the one who helped because she can recognize facades. Facades aren't good or bad, Mimimi uses hers to cheer people up, for example, but you have to learn to understand them and not be fooled by them. Aoi's doesn't suck, it's made her popular and admired and hasn't hurt anyone, the entire last two episodes was her trying to help those two hook up. How is that bad?

That is bad because in the end what is leveling up is the mask/the character. There's the infinite detachment between the person holding the controller and the character in the screen/the mask. That's the truth Fumiya perceived when he heard Mizusawa's afflictions. And that's the point you missed in the episode and overall story.

Infinite detachment? C'mon. 9_9. They're still the same people, it's not like the public and private Aoi are Jekyll and Hyde. It's like Aoi said, it's about "advancing" and growing, Aoi set goals to make her a better person, Mizusawa set goals to get girls to like him and now he's he finds it unsatisfying, that's exactly what she was trying to warn Tomozaki about. What you think you "really" want is an illusion that stunts your growth. Mizusawa is exhibit A, he thought he really wanted to be popular with girls because that's what he "really" wanted but as Aoi pointed out it's really just "what he wants right now" and he's paying the price for making that mistake.

Mar 23, 2021 7:25 PM

#161

Offline

Jan 2020

62

MenchiK1 said:

Sir_Crusher said:

That is bad because in the end what is leveling up is the mask/the character. There's the infinite detachment between the person holding the controller and the character in the screen/the mask. That's the truth Fumiya perceived when he heard Mizusawa's afflictions. And that's the point you missed in the episode and overall story.

Infinite detachment? C'mon. 9_9. They're still the same people, it's not like the public and private Aoi are Jekyll and Hyde. It's like Aoi said, it's about "advancing" and growing, Aoi set goals to make her a better person, Mizusawa set goals to get girls to like him and now he's he finds it unsatisfying, that's exactly what she was trying to warn Tomozaki about. What you think you "really" want is an illusion that stunts your growth. Mizusawa is exhibit A, he thought he really wanted to be popular with girls because that's what he "really" wanted but as Aoi pointed out it's really just "what he wants right now" and he's paying the price for making that mistake.

But the point of the anime is exactly that dividing between public and private tends to dissociate them both more and more. What is really growing and improving is her mask, not herself. The person who sets the goals is not the one reaping the benefits, exactly as misusawa said.

Mar 23, 2021 8:19 PM

#162

Offline

May 2016

1948

Sir_Crusher said:

MenchiK1 said:

Sir_Crusher said:

MenchiK1 said:

Cobalt-Blue said:

MangaZed said:
Wow I really like this series, this episode kinda ruined it, hopefully, the last episode doesn't end with such a bad after taste.

How did it ruin it...? The difference in ideology between Hinami and Fumiya has been hinted at throughout the entire season and I always knew they would have a conflict about it down the line. Mizu didn't influence Fumiya, it's the other way around. Fumiya has always been upfront and honest about his feelings. Mizu wanted to be like Fumiya because he's recognizing that's the RIGHT way to live your life. Not to put up facades and keep everyone at a distance. Everytime Fumiya was told by Hinami to basically be "fake" to get what he wanted he rejected her ideas and handheld shit properly. Mizu and Hinami both feel like they can take thier mask off around Fumiya and Fumiya has been tearing down everyones facades with his honesty. Gamifying life to objective and rehearsal cards is not natural. Some of it is okay as it got Fumiya where he is but you have to stop eventually. Hinami is more Scared then mad at Fumiya because she will feel vulnerable and open to attack if she takes all her mask off. The entire point of this show is showing that being yourself is good and that fake people should be looked down upon by that toxic way of feeling about life. Facades suck. Chase your own happiness. Be open and honest with people. This show was already good but i can see this being a better experience then Oregairu if it gets more seasons.

I don't think that's the point at all, rewatch the episode with Mimimi and the short girl. Aoi is the one who helped because she can recognize facades. Facades aren't good or bad, Mimimi uses hers to cheer people up, for example, but you have to learn to understand them and not be fooled by them. Aoi's doesn't suck, it's made her popular and admired and hasn't hurt anyone, the entire last two episodes was her trying to help those two hook up. How is that bad?

That is bad because in the end what is leveling up is the mask/the character. There's the infinite detachment between the person holding the controller and the character in the screen/the mask. That's the truth Fumiya perceived when he heard Mizusawa's afflictions. And that's the point you missed in the episode and overall story.

Infinite detachment? C'mon. 9_9. They're still the same people, it's not like the public and private Aoi are Jekyll and Hyde. It's like Aoi said, it's about "advancing" and growing, Aoi set goals to make her a better person, Mizusawa set goals to get girls to like him and now he's he finds it unsatisfying, that's exactly what she was trying to warn Tomozaki about. What you think you "really" want is an illusion that stunts your growth. Mizusawa is exhibit A, he thought he really wanted to be popular with girls because that's what he "really" wanted but as Aoi pointed out it's really just "what he wants right now" and he's paying the price for making that mistake.

But the point of the anime is exactly that dividing between public and private tends to dissociate them both more and more. What is really growing and improving is her mask, not herself. The person who sets the goals is not the one reaping the benefits, exactly as Misusawa said.

Huh, what disassociation? So her mask is good at track and class president? C'mon.

Mar 23, 2021 9:38 PM

#163

Offline

Dec 2017

82

MenchiK1 said:
Huh, what disassociation? So her mask is good at track and class president? C'mon.

She literally says that putting a good face all the time strains her, and that talking with Tomozaki is the only time where she can relax.
Aoi just does things for status, she has no real personal goals. The point the series is trying to make is that you shouldn't crave for approval/attention as a way to cope with your self-worth issues, it'll only make her more miserable, constantly hiding behind a wall while afraid of failure and rejection.

VludiMar 23, 2021 10:08 PM

Mar 23, 2021 10:05 PM

#164

niko_sb

Offline

Sep 2020

327

Nice episode.
Things got more serious, huh.

Also, Mimimi >>> Hinami, but this is one of those rom-com's where we know which girl he'll end with.
Hinami likes to stay with Tomozaki. Likes to chat with him.
Those objectives and tasks are a way to get envolved.
He says this is weird and she understands that they'll never talk again.

That was sad
O boy, I really want a S2.
Ep 12 is not enough!!!

niko_sbMar 23, 2021 10:11 PM

Mar 24, 2021 4:41 AM

#165

maxyz8047

Offline

Sep 2020

8

Tbh i don't think aoi is all that wrong about treating life and people as game characters (to a certain extent). It makes sense, it really does. The only problem is that life isn't a garbage game because its unfair or doesn't have rules or whatever. Its a garbage game because its boring.

Mar 24, 2021 5:41 AM

#166

Offline

May 2016

1948

Vludi said:

MenchiK1 said:
Huh, what disassociation? So her mask is good at track and class president? C'mon.

She literally says that putting a good face all the time strains her, and that talking with Tomozaki is the only time where she can relax.
Aoi just does things for status, she has no real personal goals. The point the series is trying to make is that you shouldn't crave for approval/attention as a way to cope with your self-worth issues, it'll only make her more miserable, constantly hiding behind a wall while afraid of failure and rejection.

That has nothing to do with what the specific thing we were discussing but OK, I'll bite.
I love how you all already know the point of the show, when the show isn't over and hasn't revealed it's point yet. Aoi DOES NOT do things for status and no real personal goals? How can you be more wrong? Everything she does is a personal goal, she says it to Tomozaki in this episode. "You and I set personal goals and worked to achieve them, that's how we did things." It's exactly what Tomozaki was doing in Tackfam but instead applied to life. Achieving those goals lead to her gaining status and attention as a side effect but they were not the goals themselves.

Mar 24, 2021 8:02 AM

#167

Offline

Dec 2017

82

MenchiK1 said:
Achieving those goals lead to her gaining status and attention as a side effect but they were not the goals themselves.

yeah, no one is buying that lol. If she didn't care for status then she wouldn't obssess over stupid little things like hiding her tackfam addiction, or obsessing over having a perfect girl image around others. Tomozaki acted like that because he puts actual value to his goals, unlike Aoi, he said long before that Tackfam was always "a fight against himself", he didn't compare his value in respect to others, even if he ended up being number 1 in the process. Aoi just instrumentalizes self-improvement and goals, they aren't the point, the point is being #1 to cope with her narcissism.

VludiMar 24, 2021 2:04 PM

Mar 24, 2021 10:20 AM

#168

Offline

May 2016

1948

Vludi said:

MenchiK1 said:
Achieving those goals lead to her gaining status and attention as a side effect but they were not the goals themselves.

yeah, no one is buying that lol. If she didn't care for status then she wouldn't obssess over stupid little things like hiding her tackfam addiction, or obsessing over having a perfect girl image around others. Tomozaki acted like that because he puts actual value to his goals, unlike Aoi, he said long before that Tackfam was always "a fight against himself", he didn't compare his value in respect others, even if he evended up being number 1 in the process. Aoi just instrumentalizes self-improvement and goals, they aren't the point, the point is being #1 to cope with her narcissism.

So she's a narcissist? I thought she "craved for approval/attention as a way to cope with your self-worth issues, it'll only make her more miserable, constantly hiding behind a wall while afraid of failure and rejection". She either thinks she's great or doesn't, which is it? Talk about taking both sides of an argument. Maybe you'd like to debate yourself.

Mar 24, 2021 10:29 AM

#169

Offline

Dec 2017

82

MenchiK1 said:

So she's a narcissist? I thought she "craved for approval/attention as a way to cope with your self-worth issues, it'll only make her more miserable, constantly hiding behind a wall while afraid of failure and rejection". She either thinks she's great or doesn't, which is it? Talk about taking both sides of an argument. Maybe you'd like to debate yourself.

Did you know that narcissism comes from insecurity and low self-worth? guess not.
Not sure if she's narcissistic or megalomaniac, but she clearly has issues, and that's fine, I don't think that's a bad trait in a character.

Mar 24, 2021 3:34 PM

#170

Offline

May 2016

1948

Vludi said:

MenchiK1 said:

So she's a narcissist? I thought she "craved for approval/attention as a way to cope with your self-worth issues, it'll only make her more miserable, constantly hiding behind a wall while afraid of failure and rejection". She either thinks she's great or doesn't, which is it? Talk about taking both sides of an argument. Maybe you'd like to debate yourself.

Did you know that narcissism comes from insecurity and low self-worth? guess not.
Not sure if she's narcissistic or megalomaniac, but she clearly has issues, and that's fine, I don't think that's a bad trait in a character.

No it doesn't.
A disorder in which a person has an inflated sense of self-importance.
Narcissistic personality disorder is found more commonly in men. The cause is unknown but likely involves a combination of genetic and environmental factors.
But nice try.

Mar 24, 2021 4:52 PM

#171