| I was expecting good writing because code geass has a lot of it but this movie just had a lot of things that just happen randomly to get the plot along they even comment on how unlikely it is that cc and kallen just randomly run into each other in the middle of nowhere . and ouh suzaku just happens to be in the prision that we break into because its actually a temple that just is there where a prison is now . |
CuteAssTiger said: hahahaI was expecting good writing because code geass has a lot of it almost all of code geass is just convenience |
| Well R1 begins on convenience. If Lelouch didn't happen to be there at the right time, the entire series wouldn't have happened the way it did. Lelouch would've done something anyway, but different events would've played out. With this film, it's not convenience that changes HOW things happen, it's convenience that changes whether or not things happen, which is frustrating. I's lazy. |
| No |
Kobayasan said: CuteAssTiger said: hahahaI was expecting good writing because code geass has a lot of it almost all of code geass is just convenience except it doesnt ? |
SmolSpitefulBean said: Well R1 begins on convenience. If Lelouch didn't happen to be there at the right time, the entire series wouldn't have happened the way it did. Lelouch would've done something anyway, but different events would've played out. With this film, it's not convenience that changes HOW things happen, it's convenience that changes whether or not things happen, which is frustrating. I's lazy. there isnt really a problem in having a convienent premise. random things happen the problem occurs when the plot starts to rely on that. A good plot is the logical result of the actions performed by its characters |
| I haven't seen it yet but I plan to right after I finish rewatching the series so I am avoiding spoilers by not reading any of the replies to this thread. As for the question, the main series was full of illogical conveniences and deus machina to advance the plot and add tension. Code Geass is ridiculous, it always has been. And that's fine, I wouldn't have it any other way. |
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epidemia78 said: I haven't seen it yet but I plan to right after I finish rewatching the series so I am avoiding spoilers by not reading any of the replies to this thread. As for the question, the main series was full of illogical conveniences and deus machina to advance the plot and add tension. Code Geass is ridiculous, it always has been. And that's fine, I wouldn't have it any other way. you may want to watch the recap movies instead as this movie is a sequel to those . they actually change some key points of the original story as for the original . i wouldnd say code geass was full of illogical conveniences most of the events in CG were the logical results of its acting characters. |
CuteAssTiger said: epidemia78 said: I haven't seen it yet but I plan to right after I finish rewatching the series so I am avoiding spoilers by not reading any of the replies to this thread. As for the question, the main series was full of illogical conveniences and deus machina to advance the plot and add tension. Code Geass is ridiculous, it always has been. And that's fine, I wouldn't have it any other way. you may want to watch the recap movies instead as this movie is a sequel to those . they actually change some key points of the original story as for the original . i wouldnd say code geass was full of illogical conveniences most of the events in CG were the logical results of its acting characters. I lost count of how many times Suzaku showed up just in the knick of time to thwart Zero's plans. Not to mention the fact that of all the people in the world to be there when the truck carrying CC crashed it just had to be the abandoned prince of the Britanian empire and it just happened to be Suzuku who showed up to deal with the terrorists who stole the truck. |
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CuteAssTiger said: SmolSpitefulBean said: Well R1 begins on convenience. If Lelouch didn't happen to be there at the right time, the entire series wouldn't have happened the way it did. Lelouch would've done something anyway, but different events would've played out. With this film, it's not convenience that changes HOW things happen, it's convenience that changes whether or not things happen, which is frustrating. I's lazy. there isnt really a problem in having a convienent premise. random things happen the problem occurs when the plot starts to rely on that. A good plot is the logical result of the actions performed by its characters Yeah, that's what I mean, I'm just not very good with getting my point across clearly... A lot of Code Geass is convenience, which makes sense especially with how complex everything is. There are too many factors involved to properly predict anything However, we know that Lelouch still would've got revenge in some way, no matter how it happens. The plot points are convenient, not the plot. For Resurrection, the main problem is it doesn't establish that things are already in motion and would happen, even without that convenience, like R1 does. I wouldn't call it a glaring issue though. It's just something small that could've been improved. |
| No |
epidemia78 said: CuteAssTiger said: you may want to watch the recap movies instead as this movie is a sequel to those . they actually change some key points of the original story as for the original . i wouldnd say code geass was full of illogical conveniences most of the events in CG were the logical results of its acting characters. I lost count of how many times Suzaku showed up just in the knick of time to thwart Zero's plans. Not to mention the fact that of all the people in the world to be there when the truck carrying CC crashed it just had to be the abandoned prince of the Britanian empire and it just happened to be Suzuku who showed up to deal with the terrorists who stole the truck. "I lost count of how many times Suzaku showed up just in the knick of time to thwart Zero's plans" considering how that is kind of his job and it makes sense that he would be there ? the example after that is the premise of CG. you can do whatever you want with your premise convience is a problem in a plot. thats a huge difference besides that ccs reaction when lelouch first touches the truck implies that she was planning to find him or someone like him . so their meeting isnt as random as it might look from lelouches perspective |
CuteAssTigerApr 15, 2020 6:31 AM
SmolSpitefulBean said: CuteAssTiger said: there isnt really a problem in having a convienent premise. random things happen the problem occurs when the plot starts to rely on that. A good plot is the logical result of the actions performed by its characters Yeah, that's what I mean, I'm just not very good with getting my point across clearly... A lot of Code Geass is convenience, which makes sense especially with how complex everything is. There are too many factors involved to properly predict anything However, we know that Lelouch still would've got revenge in some way, no matter how it happens. The plot points are convenient, not the plot. For Resurrection, the main problem is it doesn't establish that things are already in motion and would happen, even without that convenience, like R1 does. I wouldn't call it a glaring issue though. It's just something small that could've been improved. it might have been better to start of ressurection with the plot in motion and explain how they got to that point in the process. this way cc and kallen wouldnd have to bumb into each other by pure chance but because cc was trying to get their help. the information that they were there could have been obtained in some other way |
CuteAssTiger said: SmolSpitefulBean said: Yeah, that's what I mean, I'm just not very good with getting my point across clearly... A lot of Code Geass is convenience, which makes sense especially with how complex everything is. There are too many factors involved to properly predict anything However, we know that Lelouch still would've got revenge in some way, no matter how it happens. The plot points are convenient, not the plot. For Resurrection, the main problem is it doesn't establish that things are already in motion and would happen, even without that convenience, like R1 does. I wouldn't call it a glaring issue though. It's just something small that could've been improved. it might have been better to start of ressurection with the plot in motion and explain how they got to that point in the process. this way cc and kallen wouldnd have to bumb into each other by pure chance but because cc was trying to get their help. the information that they were there could have been obtained in some other way I agree. In R1 it seems like the rebellion is in action, and then a random coincidence occurs and Lelouch becomes involved, while Resurrection is: random coincidence occurs, now things are happening. It's gives the impression that the entire foundation of the plot is built on random happenings. |
| No |
SmolSpitefulBean said: CuteAssTiger said: it might have been better to start of ressurection with the plot in motion and explain how they got to that point in the process. this way cc and kallen wouldnd have to bumb into each other by pure chance but because cc was trying to get their help. the information that they were there could have been obtained in some other way I agree. In R1 it seems like the rebellion is in action, and then a random coincidence occurs and Lelouch becomes involved, while Resurrection is: random coincidence occurs, now things are happening. It's gives the impression that the entire foundation of the plot is built on random happenings. well i would say having a coincidence in the premise aka the beginning of a story is fine as its pretty difficult to write the beginning of a story as the consequence of something although ccs reaction to lelouch when he first touches the truck implies that she actually planned to meet him |
CuteAssTiger said: SmolSpitefulBean said: I agree. In R1 it seems like the rebellion is in action, and then a random coincidence occurs and Lelouch becomes involved, while Resurrection is: random coincidence occurs, now things are happening. It's gives the impression that the entire foundation of the plot is built on random happenings. well i would say having a coincidence in the premise aka the beginning of a story is fine as its pretty difficult to write the beginning of a story as the consequence of something although ccs reaction to lelouch when he first touches the truck implies that she actually planned to meet him Probably one of the reasons Resurrection seems less planned is because it's a lot shorter than the series, so less complexity can be added in. |
| No |
SmolSpitefulBean said: CuteAssTiger said: well i would say having a coincidence in the premise aka the beginning of a story is fine as its pretty difficult to write the beginning of a story as the consequence of something although ccs reaction to lelouch when he first touches the truck implies that she actually planned to meet him Probably one of the reasons Resurrection seems less planned is because it's a lot shorter than the series, so less complexity can be added in. absolutely . i think a story that is already finished should not really be touched again. when a story is finished its finished. ressuraction only had 2 hours to tell a new story related to an already finished one |
CuteAssTiger said: SmolSpitefulBean said: Probably one of the reasons Resurrection seems less planned is because it's a lot shorter than the series, so less complexity can be added in. absolutely . i think a story that is already finished should not really be touched again. when a story is finished its finished. ressuraction only had 2 hours to tell a new story related to an already finished one Oh god yeah. Leaving the problems of the film aside, I'm still salty it even exists. R2's ending was one of the best of all time, and they screwed it up to make money. |
| No |
SmolSpitefulBean said: CuteAssTiger said: absolutely . i think a story that is already finished should not really be touched again. when a story is finished its finished. ressuraction only had 2 hours to tell a new story related to an already finished one Oh god yeah. Leaving the problems of the film aside, I'm still salty it even exists. R2's ending was one of the best of all time, and they screwed it up to make money. that the nature of cashgrab storys although with this one it feels more like the original creator wanted to tell an alternative storyline i think akito was much worse because it trew everything out the window that makes code geass good >ouh you like clever chacaters ? well in akito we have a bunch of psychos that somehow made it into the military >these kids tryd to kill us ? lets recurit them >these kids tryd to kill us again ? lets give them better weapons ( next time this lil fuck builds a bomb i would have just broken all of his fingers ) >ouh we have an emotional scene where ashley has to decide whenever he shoots akito and dies or he lets him live so they both survive ? let him choose to kill him but it didnt work because he was out of ammo . the worst option . but hey the main cast also forgot about that >ouh you liked logical mecha designes ? here you have a fucking 4 legged knightmare . for what reason ? well he can run over bombs . that doesnt make any sense but fuck it . btw the float system also exists so he could have just hovered over the bombs instead but that would make to much sense >you you like clever weapon design ? well 4legged knightmare-thing has an axe that looks like the inside of a clock. doesnt really make any sense but whatever |
| Code Geass has always been a series full of conveniences, which can also be said about the vast majority of anime if we are going to be nitpicky, but I don't see why that has to be considered a bad thing. Different types of stories can (and, in my opinion, should) use different levels of convenience. If you are trying to portray a realistic documentary, that might be out of line. However, Code Geass is supposed to be an over-the-top and melodramatic story. C.C. and Kallen happening to run into each other is, well, one of the most common types of conveniences in fictional writing. It's always existed and will always continue to exist. I would argue that it's almost impossible to write a long form narrative without any instance of this, whether direct or indirect. That said, I strongly disagree with calling everything in the movie random or illogical. In my opinion, there's still a degree of internal logic to most of these events, regardless of whether one happens to like them or not. Why was Kallen in that country? She was assigned to carry out a mission, together with Sayoko and Lloyd, so it's not a truly random development. And why was C.C. in that country for that matter? C.C. was looking for a way to "fix" Lelouch's state, thus it's not unexpected to find her in a nation with ancient Geass-related ruins. We didn't know about those explanations at first, they took some time in order to appear, but they're present in the film. Again, you might not like this setup, but it's not lacking logic. Either way, I think the movie suffers from limited running time in certain ways, since several scenes had to be kept short. Nonetheless, the overall result still worked out for me and I don't see this as "ruining" the ending of the previous storyline. It's an optional continuation, not an obligation, so you can keep them separate. |
GolbeztheGreatApr 16, 2020 5:26 PM
Turtles_Hunter said: CuteAssTiger said: Let's be clear code geass writing never was very good. But it had something else. I often refer Code Geass as shakespearian. Not because of the quality, but because in shakespearian theaters, a lot of things always happen : murder, betrayal, over the top reactions, turaround... Code Geass achieve to have that. It was able to create a momentum, and if you were responsive to that, you didn't notice all the plotholes and conveniences. And that was the true strength of season. Sadly the trainwreck that was season production achieve to lose that, despite having its moment. Here, we have nothing. I was expecting good writing because code geass has a lot of it but this movie just had a lot of things that just happen randomly to get the plot along they even comment on how unlikely it is that cc and kallen just randomly run into each other in the middle of nowhere . and ouh suzaku just happens to be in the prision that we break into because its actually a temple that just is there where a prison is now . i would argue that the writing was very solid sure there are some things that dont add up . Spin-zaku kicks the shit out an automated turret and everybody seems to know how to pilot a knightmare but the story wasnt reliant on conveniences at all |
GolbeztheGreat said: Code Geass has always been a series full of conveniences, which can also be said about the vast majority of anime if we are going to be nitpicky, but I don't see why that has to be considered a bad thing. Different types of stories can (and, in my opinion, should) use different levels of convenience. If you are trying to portray a realistic documentary, that might be out of line. However, Code Geass is supposed to be an over-the-top and melodramatic story. C.C. and Kallen happening to run into each other is, well, one of the most common types of conveniences in fictional writing. It's always existed and will always continue to exist. I would argue that it's almost impossible to write a long form narrative without any instance of this, whether direct or indirect. That said, I strongly disagree with calling everything in the movie random or illogical. In my opinion, there's still a degree of internal logic to most of these events, regardless of whether one happens to like them or not. Why was Kallen in that country? She was assigned to carry out a mission, together with Sayoko and Lloyd, so it's not a truly random development. And why was C.C. in that country for that matter? C.C. was looking for a way to "fix" Lelouch's state, thus it's not unexpected to find her in a nation with ancient Geass-related ruins. We didn't know about those explanations at first, they took some time in order to appear, but they're present in the film. Again, you might not like this setup, but it's not lacking logic. Either way, I think the movie suffers from limited running time in certain ways, since several scenes had to be kept short. Nonetheless, the overall result still worked out for me and I don't see this as "ruining" the ending of the previous storyline. It's an optional continuation, not an obligation, so you can keep them separate. it is considered to be bad because a good plot is the logical chain of events responding to its characters actions . when you have things just happen out of the blue it just feels cheap. " I would argue that it's almost impossible to write a long form narrative without any instance of this, whether direct or indirect." while this is true its still not good when your events trigger just because of chance. especially as it wouldn't be difficult to write their encounter in a better way just by shifting the information around that each character has "Why was Kallen in that country? She was assigned to carry out a mission, together with Sayoko and Lloyd, so it's not a truly random development. And why was C.C. in that country for that matter? C.C. was looking for a way to "fix" Lelouch's state, thus it's not unexpected to find her in a nation with ancient Geass-related ruins." even with both of them being in the same country for their own reasons the chance of them just randomly bumbing into each other is astronomically low on top of suzaku just being there where the plot needed them to go anyways . it just shows that the author doesnt know how to write this chain of events in a way that makes it plausible for example . In R1 Lelouch wants to bail out suzaku who is suspected to be the killer of clovis this is due to the racism against elevens lelouch learns of that information because something like this would obviously be made public . because the officials need somebody they can present as the killer otherwise they look incompetent thus he ventures out to bail him out. meanwhile he arranges a meeting with the terrorist group that he wants to work for him because he needs their help . and he needs to convince them to listen to him. this way we arrive to the scene where suzakus rescue happen etc this is a logical chain of events alternatively lets look at a random variation of this the officials choose suzaku as the guilty one because they asked a random number generator for the answer lelouch just so happens to be on a walk outside and he just so happens to bumb into the terrorist group so they just go for a nice walk together then they just randomly pass by the big event in wich suzaku is supposed to be killed and then they decide to rescue him because why not ? do you see the differerence in these examples ? one of them is a a version where the plot happens because the characters are doing certain things the other one is a version where characters just randomly happen to be at the location where the plot needed them to be wich version would you consider to be better ? does one of those sound a bit lazy ? |
CuteAssTigerApr 17, 2020 7:31 AM
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