Let's talk about Sue for a moment

whatever5464 said:
Actually she is in the allied nations which just happens to side with the communist who are also against the empire.

So not sure what you're talking about, even the Soviet Russia was allied with America during WW2.

Also, what "ignorant hatred" you talking about? she a young girl who had her father killed in action by Tanya, how you would exactly react to that if you were as old as she is?

whatever5464 said:
I feel like talking with a wall, have you ever seen an human? ever seen a teenager? ever seen a teenager girl? they're emotional, irrational, and ultimately human.

The only reason why you don't normally see teenagers rushing into a war it's because 1)We're not at war against any significant country
2)There are several psychological screening / tests before you can join any modern army.
3)Parents usually stop their children to rush into war, especially right after another parent just died.

So the reason why Sue it's there it's because nobody stopped her (which they should have), it's not her fault for being immature, she is NOT an adult to begin with, she is obviously emotionally distressed by the loss of her father, WHY this is seems so complicated to understand?

MarySueSucks said:

You seem to have forgotten one thing. Its true that its possible for someone to have that much rage and hatred and manage to join the military, but no one would be able to hold stupid fantasies of black and white, hero and villain, good and evil for that long. I feel like I'm talking to a wall. Why? Because it's war. The moment Mary stepped into a battlefield, the first thing that comes to her mind should be

" Oh, this is not like the fairytales, its killed or be killed, there is no clear good or evil"

but instead, Mary is like " I'm a hero, the Empire is evil so therefore, every citizen of the Empire deserves everything they got, they are the root of all evil"

WHY does it seem so complicated for you to understand that we don't hate her for being human, we hate her for being obnoxious, an idiot etc.

She's a danger to everyone, even her allies, hell she ran off to kill Tanya failing to finish her mission. Also, she thinks Communist Russia is good and cares about the commonwealth (novel) how dense can she be? Being immature in her situation is not only dangerous to her allies, but also innocent people, such as people living in the city block she incarnated. Don't give me the " its a war zone, they would have evacuated already" there will always be some left behind.

MarySueSucks said:

but no one would be able to hold stupid fantasies of black and white, hero and villain, good and evil for that long.

MarySueSucks said:

but no one would be able to hold stupid fantasies of black and white, hero and villain, good and evil for that long.

MarySueSucks said:

The moment someone steps on a battlefield, such fantasies should have been destroyed. Mary Sue is that exemption. She is a soldier, she should not have that fantasy, the majority of them should not have that fantasy. Sorry, I think you thought I meant the entire human population, I meant as soldiers. I'll be more clear next time.

MarySueSucks said:

Are you saying that because of her trauma she should be exempted from fault? That any war crimes she committed, she shouldn't be found guilty fore? News flash, if a serial killer has a traumatizing childhood,, he'll still be found guilty.

MarySueSucks said:

My nickname means that I hate mary sue characters.. Female OP characters that don't encounter any struggles, has no faults, and in the cause of fanfiction, mary sue writers, who destroy canon, makes every canon character act off, makes their character perfect, get everything she wants, disregards all trace of reason... oh and

whatever5464 said:

Soldiers don't stop being humans the moment they become soldiers,if something applies to a human,it applies to a soldier, they're not machines.

You're really not understanding are you? I'm not saying that soldiers aren't humans, but rather that its really odd to expect soldiers to still have that fantasy. Lieutenant Grantz turned out well, he realized pretty quick that war wasn't like the fairy tales, and Visha, she's around Mary's age, had more trauma. experienced more trauma, but did she turn out like Mary? No.

MarySueSucks said:

You're really not understanding are you? I'm not saying that soldiers aren't humans, but rather that its really odd to expect soldiers to still have that fantasy. Lieutenant Grantz turned out well, he realized pretty quick that war wasn't like the fairy tales, and Visha, she's around Mary's age, had more trauma. experienced more trauma, but did she turn out like Mary? No.

MarySueSucks said:

Oh, so if a teenager kills someone, according to you the fault lies to the people who didn't stop her? And so the people who didn't stop her should be punished but not her?

MarySueSucks said:

Damn, calling Tanya a mary sue? That's a new one, and also one that is wrong.

MarySueSucks said:

oh, you don't like war based stories? You don't like the cold truth of war? That it doesn't matter that a soldier has a mental illness or not, that if they make a mistake, a war crime, they will pay the consequences. That you won't get exempted from it just cause you lost your father? You blame us, the audience for the faults of Mary Sue and not helping her? Do you understand how stupid this outlooks sounds?

MarySueSucks said:

Also you just described the dedicated fans of a show, game or book. Almost. How they force the authors to change thinks base on what, the fans want. How they send threating mails to authors when they don't comply, because all they want to see is what they want, who they want to win, which gender, which character. Yes, how some fans treat a series is truly "lame and pathetic the lack of empathy people have."

whatever5464 said:

whatever5464 said:


You'd understand what other people say much faster if you'd stop making assumption instead of you know, actually sticking to what I said and and not to what you assumed I said.
There's "degrees" of punishment you can give to an individuals, it's not "black and white" it's either ALL someone's fault or NOTHING is it's fault, I don't think I ever suggested anything like that so again, how about stop assuming?
[\quote]

Oh I'm sorry must have misread that not really clear sentence, and thought you we talking about Tanya. Damn I really can't understand what you're trying to say, Could you clear it up a bit? Do mean that it's not her fault or its not entirely her fault?

Also, you example of the gladiators and shit was pretty odd. You referred fictional characters as saves and people who watched the series as lame, pathetic and lacks empathy. You must be fun at parties.







Yeah, right, when did I said Tanya is a Mary Sue again? oh yeah, another assumption I never said on which you wrote an entire paragraph.

You could make up an assumption of what you think and write a book, wouldn't mean anything since it's not what you said but yeah, let's keep talking on assumptions and not on what people actually say.

Tanya is not a Mary Sue since she has tons of flaws as well, but she surely have an INSANE power especially for someone of her age, so it's not like your average humble random either.




I never said I blame the audience, another assumption out of nowhere, yet again.

No I blame the anime world for being stupid and not having any screening / tests so they would allow someone like Sue to join the military.



I don't know what that has to do with anything; I never ever thought of contacting any of the authors, especially since this anime is very low on my list and couldn't care less of where it goes. Also you completely deflected my point into something I didn't even ever mentioned.


Let me be clear since I already wasted enough time.
If you reply again with tons of assumptions based on NOTHING I even wrote I wouldn't even bother to reply you, if you wanna understand what other people think DON'T assume things, ask for clarifications instead, and only when you're sure that's what they mean then you can argue with them - but making assumptions not only will make you argue with nobody (the same person who says the things you assume) but will waste your time as well.

MarySueSucks said:
[
Oh I'm sorry must have misread that not really clear sentence, and thought you we talking about Tanya. Damn I really can't understand what you're trying to say, Could you clear it up a bit? Do mean that it's not her fault or its not entirely her fault?

whatever5464 said:



On a more general note a world that allows kids such as Tanya herself to join the military it's just plain wrong on a moral standpoint and also on a military point since kids "usually" aren't exactly the best soldiers - Tanya being a rare exception(but she is only a kid in the body anyway, so not really a kid).

simpbby said:
I'm sorry if I'm gonna offend anyone but i HATE mary sue, i understand that she would get trauma after getting her dad killed but she immediately wanted to join the military to kill tanya as a revenge. i hate how she thinks like 'oh tanya is a villain and the whole Empire is a villain for killing my father and i will be a hero to get revenge and destroy the Empire' her way of thinking is absolutely childish and she didn't even think that the Empire has people, humans like her. she only thought of them as monsters who hurt her country. i think that her reason to join the military is selfish, she doesn't even know the basics of military. she has to obey her superior's commands but broke it more than once. she will never be a good military soldier if her goal is to get revenge and be a hero. she's still really lucky she got in because of her huge amount and magic and she's lucky that she hasn't get any intense punishment from breaking military and war rules. once she steps in the battlefield she should've realized how bad war really is instead of thinking she will be the hero and help everyone else. i also hate how being x is so biased with her and gave her even more magic. i don't even think that mary sue thinks of tanya and the people in the Empire as humans but instead as monsters that has to be hunted down. She probably has or will have a hero complex from her beliefs and stuff. Anyways thank you for listening to my rant.

Johnlay said:


I liked your rant, and I think you bring up the biggest reason why people hate Mary Sue, she’s like every other world anime character. She gets lots of power, does thing she shouldn’t or things that endanger many, and gets off without punishment from her peers. While the rest of the anime revolves around the fact that a capitalistic guy (for the lack of words) gets put into a similar position, and is rational. When Tanya does something wrong she gets punished, eventually, but because she doesn’t do anything far out or crazy (in terms of the military), so she isn’t punished severely.

The premise of the anime is that one person strives to gets the best, while everything goes wrong around them. Then this girl just pops up and gets everything she needed. I know that most of the other characters in Tanya’s battalion get better treatment, but they react to the things they do and grow for better or worse. Mary Sue rushes in and doesn’t learn or change, she’s dead set on revenge.