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| @Doggo_Plays I can see that but u can also understand that it did feel out of place in that point of time, I can see but calling me anti-gay is kinda idk weird. I say that cause I know it annoys people like that XD she annoyed me so i wanted to annoy her back, i said that as a joke ik what it actually means im not dumb XD i knew he was gay and such but at that moment i was out of place to me at least, I didnt hate what they were talking about just it didnt feel like the correct point of time, like I loved the second time they both talked about it and glad it was their. and I never said that show was I was saying in that "moment" that "scene" not the entire anime, LGBTQ stuff is apart of youth now ig( i dont generally support this stuff but im not gonna hate on people who do like this or struggle with it as that is not right in my eyes) just want to clarify u can not support something and not hate it at the same time. |
Doggo_Plays said: Zerity said: imagine being so close minded that the simple saying of it was out of place makes me homophobic (which im not, gay people dont scare me), also the importance doesnt matter for the show, if it made sense to have like an 7-8 min talk right then I would be fine with it, if u read what i said later to someone else in here u would know this but u dont, its fine to have it but it was just hella out of place then and felt forced which is what i mean by pushing, the second time when the MC and him where talking after the fact I liked, it made sense and I liked what they were saying. Also im not anti-gay cause i dont like LGBTQ, (I love given, banana fish, yuri on ice, and sarazanmai) You kinda said things a lot more than just that you thought it out of place by upping it to the show pushing LGBTQ "shit" on you, so I think you can at least understand why people would interpret your words the way they have. I'm also sort of tired of people saying "I'm not homophobic because gays don't scare me." This is really not an issue that boils down to fear alone and there's a reason why the gay panic defense is utter trash in hate crime cases. Prejudice has other forms than fear. Also, just to clarify, I'm not trying to point a finger and yell at you and call you a homophobic liar, just annoyed with some of your logic and I am irked with how you didn't see sango's comments coming (or something similar) based on your language and attitude. I personally don't find the show to be "pushing" LGBTQ topics or gender topics at all. We have one character who's had like a minute of screentime of people defending them from bullies across two different episodes plus maybe a 6 minute talk about gender identity in a third (this latest) episode. I think the whole dressing up to spy was slightly forced (mostly because the show assumed/set up the logic that any male spying on the new tennis guy would be a perv but any female spying wouldn't be, and to me that logic is just sort of bad), but the talk afterwards at least seemed to transition nicely and I like how it expanded upon Maki's mother's friend. @Zerity When I first read the LGBTQ "shit" comment, I honestly also thought you was homophobic. Some of the people I know who say stuff like that are usually homophobic, or don't support LGBT at the very least. The way I understood it, you didn't like how there's another LGBT moment in anime, and the LGBT keeps shoving their moments in the straights' throats. I thought it was like this because there was a tweet that became viral that said something similar to that. In regards to this, I think my reply was something like "You say that it's bad that the gays keep pushing what we want, which is to be normalized, even if we've done it for only a few years, but you straights have been pushing your "being not like us is abnormal" shit basically since the beginning on time, so I think there's something wrong with that." (this is not about you btw, just something that brought me to my misunderstanding of what you said.) But then I read your reply of how it was out of place, and I realized I misunderstood what you wanted to say. Sorry. But also, straights being scared of gays? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Including myself, I've seen so many people being afraid of expressing themselves for who they are because the straights around us tell us it's abnormal, they judge us for it, and in the worst case scenario, they kill us for it. Just to clarify, I'm not saying you're homophobic at all, but I'm just trying to explain my (and probably some of us) perspective on this part. But like Maki said, don't force yourself to understand, but at least try to put yourself in our shoes. Quick Edit: I started writing this before I saw your reply to the Doggo dude, so my bad if I said something you already mentioned then. Doggo_Plays said: Also, compounding on my problem with the spying thing, I do think it was sorta dumb that in the team's planning they said Mitsue couldn't do the spying because she didn't know enough about tennis to get useful information, which made it seem like the spying was just going to by eye only... and then when they actually went to spy, they just brought a camera instead and it's not like mitsue couldn't have just gone alone with a camera and they could have all just watched the footage later. But yeah, I think the spying was forced, I don't think the gender identity talk was forced and I think it still fits in regardless of my problems with the spying. They probably couldn't let even Mitsue record it because she wouldn't know what and how to record him. They probably needed the perfect angle or something so that they can properly analyze his moments and his actions so that they can try to beat him in the match, and I don't think Mitsue would have known whether the recording was good enough for them. |
jd2001zDec 3, 2019 5:40 PM
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Doggo_Plays said: Right now I feel that the narrative around Toma is still in pieces, and trying to figure it out is one of the things that I find compelling about the show. Me too. Doggo_Plays said: In episode one, we have Maki having a two second flashback showing Toma as a young kid with a four leaf clover; in this scene I sort of get a vibe that Maki has good memories of Toma. However, later on Maki seems pretty cold to Toma. This might just be because Toma is being very severe/intense in his attempts to make sure Maki absolutely joins the club at all costs, but there also might be more to this. Maki just settled in a new place. He was closed off and kept to himself. The soft tennis club was pretty much the last thing on his mind. And besides, his life was pretty busy with having to do all the household chores and groceries. That's.. I think was why he was giving Toma the cold shoulder. Back then, he was like Mitsue in some respects. Is that why she was initially drawn to him? But like you said, Toma was very .. persistent.  Doggo_Plays said: Later still, we get a flashback of young Maki with a bandaged cheek talking to Toma's brother. Of course, the book that Toma gave to Maki at the beginning of the first day of class is from Toma's brother, so we get a pretty clear sense that Toma's brother helped out Maki before when he was younger. It might be safe to assume that Maki's bandaged cheek in the flashback is an injury from his father, much like how Maki's father slaps him again at the very end of the episode. What exactly Toma's brother did to help Maki is a bit unknown though. I get the sense that Ryouma as a character is there to help his brother. The show hasn't really delved in to their past, just small bits of flashback. And like how did Ryouma know about Maki being back before Toma..  Doggo_Plays said: Starting in I think episode 2, we get signs of other students being scared of Toma's anger or actions, hinting that Toma might have done something pretty notable in the past (the scene where the guys picking on Yuu run away after seeing Toma come to his defense is the clearest example of this). Homophobic bullies are terrified of him..  Doggo_Plays said: However, Toma is also the class president, and something about being a class president while having done something particularly violent seems a bit off to me? Maybe it's his status or his family's money that got him into the position, I'm really not sure... Itsuki almost cracked a boy's skull open and didn't even get suspended..  Doggo_Plays said: Of course, throughout the show we also see other small moments of Toma getting angry while playing tennis... Toma is the captain of the boy's soft tennis team, so he's pretty 'involved'. He is under immense pressure, not just from the school but also at home, to succeed. I think that's driving alot of his anxiety. Whether his (short) temper during play is just part of his personality or caused by aforementioned, I'm not sure.. Doggo_Plays said: The scene where Toma confronts Maki's father is still to me the most powerful moment in the show so far, and here I really felt both Toma's genuine desire to help his friends Well, he is his precious doubles partner..  This.. again? Like you wouldn't feel that shit when your precious doubles partner was being tormented..  Also, Maki was yelling at his father too..  ..The second he sensed Toma was being threatened. ..And the first time he ever stood up to his father. Probably just a coincidence.. Doggo_Plays said: whereas elsewhere in the show we have these sides of Toma much more divided and shown separately I feel. He usually only gets angry during club activities / games.. Doggo_Plays said: In another episode, Toma's brother places a pendant with a four leaf clover on Toma's desk, presumably the same clover in the episode one flashback. Clearly the pendant means a lot, but we still have no idea what was done/said between Toma and Maki in the time surrounding that few second flashblack with the clover. Like.. I'm pretty sure that pendant is a Memento MacGuffin so they'll probably bring it up at some point.. Also, why does Maki have Ryouma's mobile phone number..  Doggo_Plays said: In episode seven with the barbecue we have the scene with Toma sitting alone, unsure of how to interact with anyone else when they are all having fun. And in general, other than that smiling two second flashback with the clover, I'm not sure we've actually seen any time where Toma is actually having fun. He's certainly dedicated about tennis and as an audience we can presume that he's having fun playing tennis, but at the same time I don't think we've seen him be truly happy about it and he seems to be more about protecting the club that his older brother is an alumni of and/or giving himself a distraction so he doesn't have to be around his mother so much. During the barbecue, Maki is obviously able to get on and have fun with everyone and he's overall shown as the character most able to make friends. Toma is happiest when he's winning. .. Or you know.. when he's (alone) with Maki.  Doggo_Plays said: And now, finally, up to episode eight, at the end when Maki is talking to Mitsue, it is noted to Toma by a teammate that Maki is sort of just able to sense when things are bad and is able to tend to them and help out. At at first Toma agrees, but he then second guesses himself with a delayed "probably" that shows for that sliver in time Toma is thinking about something else. And I definitely wonder what that something else is... He's holding out hope..? Doggo_Plays said: While Maki has been shown trying to help Yuu and Mitsue, it's also very clear that Toma has been trying to help out a number of people too, especially Maki when he confronted his father but also Yuu from the bullies. True, true. Doggo_Plays said: I'd argue he was trying to help out Rintaro too after he shared he was adopted, though his words were pretty intense and heavy handed. I think it hit a little close to home for him.. Doggo_Plays said: In that respect, I'm not sure if Toma is maybe a bit jealous that Maki is sort of doing what he does, just better / with a more level head... OR... if Toma is jealous that Maki is able to "telepathically" read other people's problems and yet he hasn't been able to figure out the problems Toma has with his mother... I'm not getting jealousy out of Toma.. Doggo_Plays said: It's clear that Toma and his brother have some past history with Maki, but how much Maki knows about Toma's situation right now isn't apparent at all, and he might not know anything if we assume that Maki talked more to Toma's brother than to Toma himself when they were younger. I think Toma just hides it well.. Doggo_Plays said: Overall, I'm still not fully clear exactly why Toma's mom is afraid of him, and it sort of feels that we know more about their relationship through the dialogue his mother gives moreso than anything Toma himself has said. She's not afraid of him, she sees him as a dissapointment. Doggo_Plays said: Sorry if this rant seems out of place, I've been lurking for a while and decided to take the plunge with my first post here. I've been really enjoying this anime and it's been giving me a lot of feels... definitely not all good feels but I think just having the feels has been able to help me work out some stuff with my own childhood experiences with domestic violence. It's fine, although a little long.. Doggo_Plays said: While a ton of people have commented on Maki's mary sueness and I can definitely agree to this on a number of levels, I do think Maki has some notable flaws too. He was a total prick / almost even a bully to the other players in the early episodes before he took this more compassionate turn (which was after Toma helped him). That was calculated behaviour. He's in complete control of his emotions..  Well, except when it comes to his father. Doggo_Plays said: And I also think that it's very possible that Maki is completely missing / is oblivious to all of the struggles that Toma is having, even if he's good at spotting other people's struggles. More as a sidenote than anything though, I do want to also say that Maki being able to eloquently talk about gender identity like he did in this episode I don't really see as being THAT unbelievable, and I think younger kids these days (at least in the US) are educated or at least introduced to these concepts a lot more than in the past... I'm really not sure the age group of people replying here, but I definitely know of middle and high schoolers these days who are loads more aware than I was half a decade ago. And at the end of the day, I think we WANT more kids who are talking about this the way Maki does, and kids need to see it done right to even know what to do themselves. Maybe it is a tad unrealistic even despite my defense here, but I think it's doing more good than harm. And I personally at least don't view any of it as being overly "preachy." (I definitely do think some other mary sue critiques of Maki are warranted, and for me the biggest of these is just how insanely good he is at tennis as soon as he picks up a racket despite never playing any other sports). Between Gen Z and for example Boomers, I'd put my money on Gen Z knowing more and being more accepting of people struggling with their gender identity. Even in a conservative country like Japan. |
this_shit_againDec 4, 2019 4:43 PM
this_shit_again said: Doggo_Plays said: Right now I feel that the narrative around Toma is still in pieces, and trying to figure it out is one of the things that I find compelling about the show. Me too. Doggo_Plays said: In episode one, we have Maki having a two second flashback showing Toma as a young kid with a four leaf clover; in this scene I sort of get a vibe that Maki has good memories of Toma. However, later on Maki seems pretty cold to Toma. This might just be because Toma is being very severe/intense in his attempts to make sure Maki absolutely joins the club at all costs, but there also might be more to this. Maki just settled in a new place. He was closed off and kept to himself. The soft tennis club was pretty much the last thing on his mind. And besides, his life was pretty busy with having to do all the household chores and groceries. That's.. I think was why he was giving Toma the cold shoulder. Back then, he was like Mitsue in some respects. Is that why she was initially drawn to him? But like you said, Toma was very .. persistent. Doggo_Plays said: Later still, we get a flashback of young Maki with a bandaged cheek talking to Toma's brother. Of course, the book that Toma gave to Maki at the beginning of the first day of class is from Toma's brother, so we get a pretty clear sense that Toma's brother helped out Maki before when he was younger. It might be safe to assume that Maki's bandaged cheek in the flashback is an injury from his father, much like how Maki's father slaps him again at the very end of the episode. What exactly Toma's brother did to help Maki is a bit unknown though. I get the sense that Ryouma as a character is there to help his brother. The show hasn't really delved in to their past, just small bits of flashback. And like how did Ryouma know about Maki being back before Toma.. Doggo_Plays said: Starting in I think episode 2, we get signs of other students being scared of Toma's anger or actions, hinting that Toma might have done something pretty notable in the past (the scene where the guys picking on Yuu run away after seeing Toma come to his defense is the clearest example of this). Homophobic bullies are terrified of him.. Doggo_Plays said: However, Toma is also the class president, and something about being a class president while having done something particularly violent seems a bit off to me? Maybe it's his status or his family's money that got him into the position, I'm really not sure... Itsuki almost cracked a boy's skull open and didn't even get suspended.. Doggo_Plays said: Of course, throughout the show we also see other small moments of Toma getting angry while playing tennis... Toma is the captain of the boy's soft tennis team, so he's pretty 'involved'. He is under immense pressure, not just from the school but also at home, to succeed. I think that's driving alot of his anxiety. Whether his (short) temper during play is just part of his personality or caused by aforementioned, I'm not sure.. Doggo_Plays said: The scene where Toma confronts Maki's father is still to me the most powerful moment in the show so far, and here I really felt both Toma's genuine desire to help his friends Well, he is his precious doubles partner.. This.. again? Like you wouldn't feel that shit when your precious doubles partner was being tormented.. Also, Maki was yelling at his father too.. ..The second he sensed Toma was being threatened. ..And the first time he ever stood up to his father. Probably just a coincidence.. Doggo_Plays said: whereas elsewhere in the show we have these sides of Toma much more divided and shown separately I feel. He usually only gets angry during club activities / games.. Doggo_Plays said: In another episode, Toma's brother places a pendant with a four leaf clover on Toma's desk, presumably the same clover in the episode one flashback. Clearly the pendant means a lot, but we still have no idea what was done/said between Toma and Maki in the time surrounding that few second flashblack with the clover. Like.. I'm pretty sure that pendant is a Memento MacGuffin so they'll probably bring it up at some point.. Also, why does Maki have Ryouma's mobile phone number.. Doggo_Plays said: In episode seven with the barbecue we have the scene with Toma sitting alone, unsure of how to interact with anyone else when they are all having fun. And in general, other than that smiling two second flashback with the clover, I'm not sure we've actually seen any time where Toma is actually having fun. He's certainly dedicated about tennis and as an audience we can presume that he's having fun playing tennis, but at the same time I don't think we've seen him be truly happy about it and he seems to be more about protecting the club that his older brother is an alumni of and/or giving himself a distraction so he doesn't have to be around his mother so much. During the barbecue, Maki is obviously able to get on and have fun with everyone and he's overall shown as the character most able to make friends. Toma is happiest when he's winning. .. Or you know.. when he's (alone) with Maki. Doggo_Plays said: And now, finally, up to episode eight, at the end when Maki is talking to Mitsue, it is noted to Toma by a teammate that Maki is sort of just able to sense when things are bad and is able to tend to them and help out. At at first Toma agrees, but he then second guesses himself with a delayed "probably" that shows for that sliver in time Toma is thinking about something else. And I definitely wonder what that something else is... He's holding out hope..? Doggo_Plays said: While Maki has been shown trying to help Yuu and Mitsue, it's also very clear that Toma has been trying to help out a number of people too, especially Maki when he confronted his father but also Yuu from the bullies. True, true. Doggo_Plays said: I'd argue he was trying to help out Rintaro too after he shared he was adopted, though his words were pretty intense and heavy handed. I think it hit a little close to home for him.. Doggo_Plays said: In that respect, I'm not sure if Toma is maybe a bit jealous that Maki is sort of doing what he does, just better / with a more level head... OR... if Toma is jealous that Maki is able to "telepathically" read other people's problems and yet he hasn't been able to figure out the problems Toma has with his mother... I'm not getting jealousy out of Toma.. Doggo_Plays said: It's clear that Toma and his brother have some past history with Maki, but how much Maki knows about Toma's situation right now isn't apparent at all, and he might not know anything if we assume that Maki talked more to Toma's brother than to Toma himself when they were younger. I think Toma just hides it well.. Doggo_Plays said: Overall, I'm still not fully clear exactly why Toma's mom is afraid of him, and it sort of feels that we know more about their relationship through the dialogue his mother gives moreso than anything Toma himself has said. She's not afraid of him, she sees him as a dissapointment. Doggo_Plays said: Sorry if this rant seems out of place, I've been lurking for a while and decided to take the plunge with my first post here. I've been really enjoying this anime and it's been giving me a lot of feels... definitely not all good feels but I think just having the feels has been able to help me work out some stuff with my own childhood experiences with domestic violence. It's fine, although a little long.. Doggo_Plays said: While a ton of people have commented on Maki's mary sueness and I can definitely agree to this on a number of levels, I do think Maki has some notable flaws too. He was a total prick / almost even a bully to the other players in the early episodes before he took this more compassionate turn (which was after Toma helped him). That was calculated behaviour. He's in complete control of his emotions.. Well, except when it comes to his father. Doggo_Plays said: And I also think that it's very possible that Maki is completely missing / is oblivious to all of the struggles that Toma is having, even if he's good at spotting other people's struggles. More as a sidenote than anything though, I do want to also say that Maki being able to eloquently talk about gender identity like he did in this episode I don't really see as being THAT unbelievable, and I think younger kids these days (at least in the US) are educated or at least introduced to these concepts a lot more than in the past... I'm really not sure the age group of people replying here, but I definitely know of middle and high schoolers these days who are loads more aware than I was half a decade ago. And at the end of the day, I think we WANT more kids who are talking about this the way Maki does, and kids need to see it done right to even know what to do themselves. Maybe it is a tad unrealistic even despite my defense here, but I think it's doing more good than harm. And I personally at least don't view any of it as being overly "preachy." (I definitely do think some other mary sue critiques of Maki are warranted, and for me the biggest of these is just how insanely good he is at tennis as soon as he picks up a racket despite never playing any other sports). Between Gen Z and for example Boomers, I'd put my money on Gen Z knowing more and being more accepting of people struggling with their gender identity. Even in a conservative country like Japan. So while I have enjoyed reading your posts in several weeks of these threads now, it seems like you're just making fun of me here. :shrug: Some of your points seem smug like you know more than I do, which is fine and eh whatever, some I want to disagree with, and others seem to be just comedic hyperbole. But I guess I don't really need to respond to things individually when the collective vibe is you just making fun of me. Whatever, I still like the show and you seem to like it too so all g. Will be seeing you in a new one in half a day or so, take care mate. |
| This episode made me tear up. It made me so happy. For everyone complaining about how the LGBT discussion was handled, shut the ever living fuck up. As a trans person who loves anime, this was the first anime to ever handle trans discussion the best. Before this episode, it was Lily from Zombieland Saga but even in that anime, they avoided terms and were extremely subtle so that there were still people who denied her being transgender. There is no question about what was being discussed in Stars Align. It's fucking fantastic. It feels good to have such great representation like this -- Maki's trans man friend is literally the first confirmed trans man in anime and he's not even a main character but you all want to act like it's "too much". I hope whatever Yu does or doesn't choose, they're at least happy. You're all just as bad as Yu's trash mother. |
JotakakDec 5, 2019 4:52 PM
Kind of weird that homophobic/transphobic straight boys keep coming back to this show when there are at least 5 shounens with the big tiddies, the lolis, the assorted clothing fetishes and what have you running right now. I guess they don't keep them .. busy, like they used to. |
| Good episode overall, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of japanese people who are more closed to the new era are like Yu's mother, probably watching this they'll see that it is bad to force into your kids what you think. |
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| I'm going to re-post my thoughts about this episode here (slightly edited for grammar stuff) since there was a lot of off topic discussion above: I personally believe many people miss the point of this LGBTQ+ topic even being brought up in the first place in this episode...the message I think is that the world tries to label you and put you into categories and if you don't fit in you're treated like an outcast. Growing up is a fragile time where you are constructing your identity and you are still trying to figure out who you are...there is this pressure to fit in and to already know who you are so you can grow up quickly. This episode focused more on that topic. And yes, issues that lgbtq+ individuals struggle with are part of this growing up identity struggle, but I think the message they are trying to spread is that it is not necessarily completely exclusive to one group. Undeniably, yes of course, the struggles are certainly very different...but I think they mentioned it to fit in with this overall theme of being 'outcasts' and 'labeled' by society. I read how a lot of people feel bringing this topic is out of place. Personally, I did feel at the moment it did feel a little bit out of place. I'm not going to lie. I am not angry they brought up issues LGBTQ+ teens struggle with, as a matter of fact, I am actually quite glad. It is not every day an anime will bring light to these issues, like yes there may be homosexual characters but very rarely are their struggles explained in depth like this episode. And for that, I am actually surprised and thankful this issue is being brought to light. I am, however, not super happy about how the show seems to be reaching to far too many issues and topics, glancing over them, and using them for character development. It is just my personal opinion that I think at some point, when you reach for too much or bring in too many themes...it becomes 'too much', mixed up, and you lose what you are really trying to convey since you just have this string of so many messages. That being said, variety, and diversity actually makes it realistic since everyone really does have different struggles. The execution is what I had a problem with in this episode. Something about how that scene was executed did feel off to me and felt more like a textbook definition rather than seeing the actual struggle of a character. That might be what sit wrong with me. There's telling someone's story and then showing it. With a show like this, you'd expect to see more of it shown though with limited episodes you really can only be told. "Yu struggles with identifying as a boy or a girl and feels he does not fit in with either label but feels pressured to conform to societal standards and is confused about who he wants to become" <--literally what that entire scene told us. And it was interesting because Maki told us Shou's story which we were supposed to connect to Yu's though I thought the show would want to focus on the cast rather than...idk some supporting character we didn't even really know the name of (Shou). Granted, they have been showing Yu's struggle throughout the series though something about it is being shoved in the audience's faces, told by Maki of all people...idk it just feels off for someone other than Yu to be the main focus of that discussion and that felt off to me. Overall, I am looking forward to how this anime will try to finish off and tie all these themes and drama going on...or will it? |
| based nb representation 😤 |
| This was a great episode and for a hot minute I thought that weird kid was about to murder An I'm so glad he didn't that would've turned the whole story around I'd give it a 8/10 |
| Thread cleaned. Please ensure all posts are on topic and about the episode. |
| Things were looking up for a while, but this is a monkey wrench and a slight setback. I've met a kid like this--he was home schooled, family was from Germany and the kid is in my daughter's Taekwondo class. Smarter than most adults I've met. So I'd say Maki is not that extraordinary. He's had the school of hard knocks, but instead of turning him bad, he had the spark to succeed by using his challenges to his advantage. Imagine learning to catch cockroaches with chopsticks making you good in Tennis. The surprising aspect of this episode which I did not expect was the transgender issue. Normally, I don't like to hear about that stuff, but this episode handled it in a very realistic and serious manner. It makes you feel empathy for Yu and the feelings he's grappling with. The ending just hooks you and we cannot wait to find out how this plays out. All around, I'm enjoying every second of this series. What an unexpected delight! |
| You can go on all you want about how this highlights certain issues, but when there's so many brought up and so few episodes left, I'm doubtful of how this will wrap up. I just hope it doesn't pull a Battery. |
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| what the heck is wrong with all the parents in this series? |
| Totally expected the gender issue to play a role, this is just the kind of series that would implement such an element. While I agree that there is quite a lot going on with a lack of narrative focus, I still enjoy it and have little doubt that things will eventually get tied up neatly. And another crazy ma. Poor Nao, having one like that must be extremely stressful. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Gezz, i feel annoyed by the sudden non-binary subplot. They just changed a gay guy for a non-binary as a plot device. I find this quite offensive as a gay guy. Please Japan, gay and non-binary are not the same. Also, Mitsue's subplot came too late to care. She was annoying during many episodes and now we need to feel bad about her. Epic fail. This show cannot choose one topic to focus for one episode. Basically, it was just more generic evil mothers and more dumb drama. |
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
| Great Episode - complete - |
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| The fucking representation. TRANS RIGHTS. God, I can't believe *this* anime had budget issues. I love all my dork characters and they talk about abusive families/parents & sexuality/gender identity and everything in such a beautiful, understanding way. This anime is so freaking important. |
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| This episode dealt with a lot of sensitive issues. Yuu is unsure of who he is, but I'm impressed with the sound advice that Maki gave him. As far as I know, I'm male, but I like a lot of feminine things, including wigs and feminine clothing, but my mom has always mocked me for it. She's always told me that I'm not allowed to like that stuff because it's "for girls." Because of this, I can kinda understand the pain that Yuu is going through. It turns out that it was Nao's mother who filed those complaints. Will he ever be able to stop her? Also, they're going to play against the girls again. Can they win this time? |
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Croque_Monsieur said: I keep seeing people in this discussion board commenting on how sudden and out of place the LGBTQ+ scene was compared to the rest of the show, but like, this isn't the first time Yu's identity and sexuality have been addressed? This is literally a continuation from an earlier episode between maki and yu. I felt that writing-wise it flowed quite well. Say what you will about maki being a mary sue, but the throughline transition from 'we need to spy on our future rivals' -> 'only girls gather around rival character during training, we'll stand out' -> 'cross-dressing as a solution' -> 'yu and maki crossdress' -> 'yu ask maki on his perspective on the situation and further opens up on his insecurities relating to the situation'. Is it really that out of place that the LGBTQ+ kid with 2 sisters whose interested in exploring his gender would learn how to add makeup and dress up like a girl? How is it weird for him to want to seek an opinion from a guy who he already knows is pretty liberal about sexuality based on previous conversations? The foundations for this conversation were already there, it's just that this episode they finally had an organic way incorporate it. Furthermore, It's really not that hamfisted. This scene just stands out more from other scenes in this series and other shows because LGBTQ+ topics are rarely so openly and matter of factly discussed. It's a case of the viewer not being desensitized to the topic rather than the scene itself being out of place. It's a drama and slice of life anime, what do you expect characters to do, other than talk about their feelings? What does it matter if instead of there being romantic melodrama about teenage crushes we have drama regarding gender and sexuality? It's the same theme of 'exploring oneself' and 'coming of age' we see in other anime. If we can have 2 whole seasons about a depressed shogi player who agonizes over whether Shogi is something he enjoys or needs to live, then I think one scene with a teen asking his friend "hey, is it weird if I don't know what I really what I want to be as a person?" is pretty subtle in comparison. I'm almost inclined to call this a double-standard. If you watch enough of the same kind of media and get used to the mainstream, any deviation from the norm will stand out. The messages in this show are hardly any more hamfisted or out of place than the theme of 'friendship' is in shounen. It's pretty obvious this show is out to explore the relationship between children and their parents, whether it be a parents response to their child (in the case of Yu tentatively being NB and his mother imposing the gender of a boy on him; the hinted at anger issues with Toma and his mother's ire for it) or a child's response to their parents (Maki's response to his father's abuse; the pathological liar's response to his helicopter mother). This show doesn't need the narrow perspective of life that, you, as an individual, believe to be realistic. Most times, rather than not, parents are flawed. It can range from something as small as parents ridiculing or scorning their child's hobbies and career paths (as with the artist girl) to extreme and unhinged abuse (as seen with Itsuki). Granted a majority are likely not as extreme as the latter, but what does it matter? This is anime. It's fiction. That's the great thing about it. As a medium, it can bring together interesting concepts and put them together. If the show wants to focus on parental issues and identity shaping in teens rather than the usual romance tumblings of youth, what it to you? Those aspects are as much an important aspect of people's youths as the societies they participated in. Perfectly and eloquently said. I concur on all topics. I tip my hat to you. |
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| This episode hits close home and I had to take a break at some point. I'm glad the issues of helicopter parenting (the gaslighting, the inability to do anything right or free yourself, gdi...) and typical disdain for queerness got tackled, and how people from difficult homes subcounsciously are drawn towards each other. I don't think Yu's character is an attempt at rewritting a gay boy into transgirl or an enby - questioning is quite common among queer people. The talk he/they has had with Maki wasn't too far-fetched as I myself had similiar moments with fellow lgbt+ people. Also, I believe 2 of the characters are autist-coded and the lack of ableism from their team-mates really surprises me. Maybe it's just that these kids are smarter or trying to grow up better than the society which taught them? I think Mituse was projecting her own insecurities on the boys' club so her warming up and getting out there was pretty cool. Her reaching out to Mr. Sakurai was also heart-warming and I liked how he had praised and supported her. The anime's been my favourite so far from that season and maybe out of all SoL genre. Seeing how the staff handles sensitive topics is refreshing tbh. My only complaint with the show is Maki's almost-flawless character and I get the feeling there's not enough time given for the series to shine (or maybe there were some budget cuts I don't know about). |
RrenMar 26, 2020 9:34 PM
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| This is a pretty good way to represent the gender issue Yu is struggling with, unlike some other anime which kind of force it into the story I feel bad for Nao, having a stereotypical helicopter parent, especially with such bad eyesight...like if that looked like a enthusiastic Nao to you you must get your vision checked promptly |
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| Man, Maki just became my IDEAL 'boyfriend'. If I want to have a relationship with someone, I want someone just like him. I really love the part when he comforted Mitsue. <3 Aah~ I love this anime. Such unique story where you don't know where the story is going.. like how the characters react at things. It's like the author of this series is Korean. :) |
| Seems like yuu is non binary. Well atleast I think they are re. |
| Nao’s mom is actually the worst. And so are the girls who bullied Mitsue. All of these kids deserve better 😞 For Mitsue’s mom to say that “drawing pictures isn’t something respectable people do…” I went to school for drawing (ha ha). But in all seriousness, I get that parents like her are normal in Asian countries (even Western ones), but I wish she would at least let her kid enjoy herself. There’s no harm in having a hobby. And who knows? Mitsue might become talented enough to turn it into a respectable career. I wish people stopped hating on artists so much. The scene where Yuuta came out to Maki warmed my heart 🥹 I’m so proud of them. That takes a lot of courage to say, especially in middle school, and especially in a country, where it’s not as accepted or understood. (When his mom said, “You’re a boy, you know. You’re my son,” I wanted to punch the screen. Stfu.) Maki: “It’s fine if you can’t decide right now.” Yuu: “But they say it’s normal to make up your mind and pick.” Maki: “Even it that’s true, don’t force yourself to make a decision. There’s still plenty of time for us.” I’m seeing people say that Maki is too understanding and thoughtful for his age. That’s completely untrue. Children are very impressionable, and if they’re raised in a household with good values (his mom, not his dad) around people who are different from them (in his case, a trans man), that kindness will naturally be instilled in them. I grew up with a gay family friend (RIP 💗), and I didn’t need lots of time to learn. I just understood. By the time I was in middle school, I understood even better. Of course, in Maki’s case, he was also raised in an abusive household, and since it’s just him and his mom, he’s had to take on a lot of responsibilities. So maturity wise, he’s not your average middle schooler. I feel like a lot of people forget that. Talim said: And a lot of women watch anime as forms of escapism too from the rampant sexual harassment and assault we have to endure ourselves in real life or hear/read about every day in the news, and yet we're constantly bombarded with rape jokes or harassment/assault being played off for laughs in tons of anime genres. I gave up on expecting anime to stop being sexist ages ago. So get over it. Not every anime is gunna cater to your needs, so stop expecting it to. SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK. (I want to quote and tag them, but I don’t see a message ID. Send help.) |
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| I can't say that I didn't see this dive into the LGBT+ theme coming, but surely I didn't expect such a deep dive. However, I'm very impressed by how carefully this theme was approached. Actually, ALL of the sensitive topics, especially regarding family issues, are being handled very carefully so far, and I'm so in love with that. So well-written!!! I still have some episodes to go, but there's a high probability this title will earn a spot on my favorites. |
Dunno. Dunno. |
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