Seikaisuru Kado Episode 12 Discussion

GangsterCat said:
it's still dbz time cuz this is basically the equivalent of summoning Zen-o in future trunks arc lol

yuliyana29 said:
Trainwreck/10. This makes Mayoiga look like a masterpiece.

GokuNazz said:
Damn, that romance escalated quickly.

This show is missing the 'Romance' tag

SabrinaKhuntia said:


Even though there wasn't some DBZ battle, I still found the ending to be shitty af. The focus of this show was how humanity responded to zaShunina's gifts, not just Shindo and Saraka but like the people as a collective whole and as individuals. What happened to the UN getting involved and all of that? And it's like the writers completely forgot about the Prime Minister of Japan, who actually had a decent role in the beginning, and then randomly brought him back in the finale because they remembered that governments would probably, I don't know, have an active role in all of this - or at least a significant reaction? There was so much potential with what they could've done after introducing the Sansa but instead, they switched to focusing on characters who were never even complex to begin with (other than the anisotropic). I said it before, but they even included a scene of Shindo's friend who we were apparently supposed to care about even though he is a random side charactes that had like a total of five minutes of screentime. Instead, they could've gone the route of showing:

- How the media would inevitably twist the truth in its presentation of what was going on
- How companies and corporations would take advantage of the situation
- How different world leaders would respond, and maybe even develop or change their viewpoint, as they got more and more gifts from zashu
- How there would be conflict within the scientific community in terms of what to do next

These are all plot points they set up in the first half. It wasn't just about Shindo and Saraka's response to the situation (and if it was, then I'd say the show wasn't even that great in the beginning then, since it's pretty unrealistic to expect a simple binary divide in thinking when it comes to something as complicated as this). I mean, to rephrase what I said earlier, those two were pretty one-dimensional, and that was alright since it was more about the philosophies of the individuals than the actual characters themselves. So switching the tone to make it heavily character-focused ended up turning this into a trainwreck imo.



This too. XD

MetaThPr4h said:
I wish I could forget about these last 4 episodes, what a way to ruin a show that had me hooked hard with the interesting Sci-Fi idea.

I'm not even sure how to rate this, fucking what man.

Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final

PianoManGregory said:
I understand why so many in this community have intense distaste for Kado, because I also had difficulties grappling with the story the show was truly trying to tell. Up until episode 9, I, like many of you, believed that this was going to be a high-concept science fiction show about the effects an unimaginably-more powerful but benevolent creature could have on human society. I understand why I made this mistake- I focused too much on the goings-on of the humans, and did not consider enough the thoughts Yaha-kui zaShunina was having.

Episode 9 brought zaShunina's character arc to the forefront and revealed that, in fact, this sci-fi show was more interested in telling a story about ideologies clashing and coexisting and advancing, and that all the human drama we were experiencing was itself little more than a part of a greater whole. If you look at Kado through a lens of mythological archetypes, the workings of the show become clear- through the medium of Shindo Kojiro, two embodiments of pure human drives have an argument. Tsukai Saraka, embodiment of love for tradition and humanity, and Yaha-kui zaShunina, embodiment of love for information and advancement, pit their ideals against each other and conclusions are reached:

Questing for knowledge without also cherishing the things you encounter along the way will lead not only to your own destruction, but also the destruction of everything you have come to value.

While a love for your surroundings may be noble, it alone is weak and cannot hope to combat the greedy and powerful.

Only by finding a compromise between these two lofty and yet unworkable ideologies can we hope to successfully advance while preserving the unique traits that keep us human.

That is the message of Seikaisuru Kado. That is the right answer.

SabrinaKhuntia said:


This would all be well and good if they hadn't spent a sizable portion of the show focusing "on the goings-on of the humans". There's no point in spending 6+ episodes raising interesting plot points about government involvement and the response of the media and scientific community if the ending is just going to be about three characters. Even if they were always the main focus (which is arguable), I still find it a waste of potential to ignore the various ways different groups of human beings would react. Sure, they are only a small part of a greater whole, like you said, but the switch from focusing on all of that to focusing on the trio was done too abruptly.

K4ppin said:


I saw the crane tip over, not so much the wam. Also, heard that weird breathy whisper. I almost feel like Saraka went off into her own anisotrophic space as she walked off, could be why we hear that whisper. Maybe she doesn't have all of her powers left, but she could still have retained a portion, she is after all still an anisotrophic being. Said she doesn't have "that" power, but that doesn't necessarily mean she lost all her powers.

SongstressSL said:
They would have done a better job with Saraka remaining human and representing people who actually are traditional and rising up against Yaha-kui than having her get in a relationship with Shindo. From the point when those two started a romance, the negotiation aspect, and the idea of representing sides kind of disappeared from focus. It just feels like Saraka bent whatever values or philosophies Shindo originally had and that's a marked trait of a Sue, hence the hate for her from other viewers.

Also, by forcing Yahakui to leave the story setting, the makers of this show put forth the following message: "No, if you don't agree with our traditional values, then you are simply denied your choice to advance (technologically)." While the technology was advancing too quickly at the start, this message isn't the right answer either.

SabrinaKhuntia said:
This would all be well and good if they hadn't spent a sizable portion of the show focusing "on the goings-on of the humans". There's no point in spending 6+ episodes raising interesting plot points about government involvement and the response of the media and scientific community if the ending is just going to be about three characters. Even if they were always the main focus (which is arguable), I still find it a waste of potential to ignore the various ways different groups of human beings would react. Sure, they are only a small part of a greater whole, like you said, but the switch from focusing on all of that to focusing on the trio was done too abruptly.

PianoManGregory said:


I had not yet considered that people would be displeased with Saraka because of what they perceive as Mary Sue qualities, but now that I consider it, I think that it's unfair to characterize her in such a way. A Mary Sue is, almost by definition, a self-insert character, and I do not think it is possible to empathize with Saraka enough to experience things from her point of view. While you are correct that Saraka's views change Shindo's views, do not forget that Shindo was also affected by zaShunina's views: zaShunina literally forced his mindset onto Shindo in the first episode through his "conditioning". Shindo is meant to be changed by these two because he is a curious and compromising human mind, while zaShunina and Saraka are overpowering embodiments of pure ideologies. Basically, Saraka is not a Mary Sue, she is a force of ideological nature, and I think that because this is what Saraka is, she would not have been able to represent the same things if she was merely a human.

I hope this answer is complete enough.

SabrinaKhuntia said:


Even though there wasn't some DBZ battle, I still found the ending to be shitty af. The focus of this show was how humanity responded to zaShunina's gifts, not just Shindo and Saraka but like the people as a collective whole and as individuals. What happened to the UN getting involved and all of that? And it's like the writers completely forgot about the Prime Minister of Japan, who actually had a decent role in the beginning, and then randomly brought him back in the finale because they remembered that governments would probably, I don't know, have an active role in all of this - or at least a significant reaction? There was so much potential with what they could've done after introducing the Sansa but instead, they switched to focusing on characters who were never even complex to begin with (other than the anisotropic). I said it before, but they even included a scene of Shindo's friend who we were apparently supposed to care about even though he is a random side charactes that had like a total of five minutes of screentime. Instead, they could've gone the route of showing:

- How the media would inevitably twist the truth in its presentation of what was going on
- How companies and corporations would take advantage of the situation
- How different world leaders would respond, and maybe even develop or change their viewpoint, as they got more and more gifts from zashu
- How there would be conflict within the scientific community in terms of what to do next

These are all plot points they set up in the first half. It wasn't just about Shindo and Saraka's response to the situation (and if it was, then I'd say the show wasn't even that great in the beginning then, since it's pretty unrealistic to expect a simple binary divide in thinking when it comes to something as complicated as this). I mean, to rephrase what I said earlier, those two were pretty one-dimensional, and that was alright since it was more about the philosophies of the individuals than the actual characters themselves. So switching the tone to make it heavily character-focused ended up turning this into a trainwreck imo.



This too. XD

SongstressSL said:


Agreed, haha. Saraka was the true villain of the story. And for me, their daughter is just a plothole.

Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final

SongstressSL said:
@LeonLanford Hahaha! I'm surprised there's more plotholes than the obvious, but yeah. I'm still confused how the daughter has more dimensions than either parent. Even more confused why none of Saraka's previous scions (she's been around forever, come on), are higher than anisotropics.

SabrinaKhuntia said:


Yes, little did people know, the anisotropic + his powers is actually Gilgamesh + EA (his name even happens to be zashu, Gil's favorite word) and Shindo is Enkidu, the only person who can counter him.

Which obviously means that Yukika, as Shindo's noble phantasm, is none other than Enki's Enuma Elish.

This analogy is clearly the "right answer" they have been referring to all along.

Shadowwolfcat said:


I quote this, because it's a good post and it expresses my positive feelings about the ending. As always, you don't fail to write well, Tokoya.

However, I can't help but feel disappointed, largely due to my own expectations. I was touched by Shindo and Yaha's conversation, but I wanted more than a small emotional stir. I expected a deep long debate, with Yaha openly expressing all the positives of his outlook and Shindo expressing his own. Yes, I understand that at that point Yaha was a bit unstable, since he was coming to terms with the human emotions that were surging inside him and the singularity realization, hence his immediate strong attachment to the one stable pillar before him - Shindo, yet that was no excuse for him to immediately jump to "If I can't have you, no one will". If there was such a scene, where Shindo thoroughly told him about how humanity reached this "singularity state" - emotions, pacing yourself, being at peace with the universe, etc. -, I believe the episode would have had a far more stable ground to put its "finished" flag. The debate doesn't need to be 15 or 20 minutes. It could have easily fitted before the two strike at each other, the latter moment being even more emotional, I believe.

It's exactly because this scene was missing that I felt awkward when the daughter appeared. Was it creative? Yes, it was. It was definitely not something we see every day. However, it doesn't make it fantastic. As Tokoya mentions, Yukika embodies all three ideologies, which is a good start, but the way her character performed ruined her concept to a certain degree in my eyes. Her being able to fling Yaha left and right without batting an eye, as if she were a goddess above all deities, for the 16 years she has been in existence, is so sweet it's perfectly bitter. Yes, it could be argued that, as a half-anisotropic being, both her physical and mental growth could have a greater speed than that of humans, but I find it hard to imagine a being trapped in an isolated house since birth for 16 years to possess a greater understanding of, generally speaking, everything than a being that has been in existence for what we could only fathom as eternity. Even if both Shindo and Saraka taught her, even if she was given many books to read, what pure genetics can do in the creation of the mental state is limited without the active various stimuli from the outside world. And this is coming from a person who loves genetics! It could even be said that her being able to do what she did sets fire on Saraka's ideology that the true miracle of humanity doesn't happen from being given everything in an instant, but from growing and experiencing many different things throughout your lifetime. Being part of the younger better generation does not automatically mean you are better than those older than you, who have wisdom from the time they have lived. Also, this is coming from a 20-year-old human being! I wouldn't have qualms against her defeating Yaha, because I understand this is about one concept toppling the other, if she hadn't done so without receiving a blow from Yaha or failing to properly use her powers. In fact, if there had been a moment in that "battle", where Yukika had found herself in a pinch with Yaha seemingly winning, it would have made much more sense in the scenario, because she embodies a young concept, one not entirely polished and without the experience of millennia, but her eventually winning would have shown that, despite existing flaws, she is the right answer.

In the end, I feel like I was promised chocolate cake, but was given only chocolate. It's delicious, but it's not cake. It doesn't have the finesse of cake. Until now, my rating was 9/10, but I'll lower it to 8/10. A shame, but I can't shut my eyes and pretend I didn't see what I did. Of course, this is how I feel about the ending and I'm not imposing it on anyone.

LeonLanford said:


For that let's assume the ring is her 'seal'. The ring was never broken before this, that's why after the 'seal' broke, she gained the ability to create OP descendant. Yahakui did not know about this ability because he did not know that male(human) and female(anisotropic) can procreate, that's why he was really surprised when he saw the daughter(me too).

What confused me more is why she lost her anisotropic, it was more reasonable if her anisotropic was 'transferred' to her daughter. But she lost it after the story ended one month later..
I think maybe one month later her body realized that she's not virgin anymore(when her 'period' came) thus removing her status as anisotropic. Source: I read story about some princesses who lost their virginity before wedding and removed from their status.

I don't know what I'm talking about lol



I forgot to mention that Shindo is Saraka's servant(slave), but you seem to understand what I meant!
You're almost correct! The right answer is make a baby with your servant to save the world :)

SabrinaKhuntia said:

LaPokota said:
That ending was a giant turkey (nothing against turkeys btw).

If you are gonna have an all powerful daughter that can come back in time to save the would, the least she could have done was arrive before Shindou died so she could have saved him too.

Blah. Gobble gobble, giant turkey.

rinneganfire4u said:
Wow, YaZa turned from a robot to Yandere in just 1 ep. Also, Shindou fucked Saraka, conceived a child, and handed her off to Hanamori in a closed space for 16 years and BAAM "My child! Destroy thy 'real' father's enemy". WTF happened to this show in the last 3 eps. Dissappointing. 6/10

YaZa wanted information overdose, maybe he should have hooked on INTERNET!!

GokuNazz said:
Damn, that romance escalated quickly.

This show is missing the 'Romance' tag

MetaThPr4h said:
I wish I could forget about these last 4 episodes, what a way to ruin a show that had me hooked hard with the interesting Sci-Fi idea.

I'm not even sure how to rate this, fucking what man.

Jin_uzuki said:
Unless he really did EVERYTHING to surprise him, which means he wasted 16 years of Hanamori's life,

AoKirisaki said:
I interpret the ending as humanity refusing evolution, honestly. zaShunina acted childish in the end because he gained human emotions, including selfishness and attachment to Shindo. He was a superior being who didn't have emotions and there was a void in him, I could compare him to Light from Death Note in that sense, who was a bored genius. Since he's been there from the beginning of the universe, I imagine he saw all he could see, and combined with him being unable to perceive emotions, he ultimately just wanted a friend. I believe that if Shindo wasn't rushed and influenced by Saraka, he would've been able to properly negotiate with zaShunina and cooperate to evolve the world in a way favorable to humans too. Having those technologies wasn't a bad thing. Of course, they could've been misused, but that risk is present in any form of progress. And there's mentioned that they were left with something very important, the knowledge that the fregonics exist and that they will maybe visit zaShunina on their own, with their own power - I don't see this possible, since getting to that level of progress would take so much time and resources and it's very possible that humanity won't even survive that long. zaShunina's initial intentions, before gaining human traits and drifting a little from his initial purpose in my opinion, were those of wanting to share his knowledge, and that was pretty much the essence of his objective, mutual information sharing. He initially didn't have any sense of good and evil, so I believe that his thoughts when he was in that state where the purest form of his intention, and since he wanted more and more information, he wouldn't want to destroy that very source. I think that Saraka's interference was bad, cause at that time he already gained human emotions and he probably felt cornered, he wanted Shindo for himself. He never had a friend before, he didn't know how to react, and he rushed things in order to secure the fact that Shindo won't go away. Everything was new to him, and he couldn't control his emotions, that could be seen pretty clearly when he was shown the video with Shindo and his daughter. He was indeed surprised, but he was also angry, confused and he probably felt betrayed, but he still held Shindo- his first friend- dear. After all that, he even rushed to him before being sent back to his dimension. To conclude, I'd like to say that I think that this is a story about the fear of the unknown, and maybe about the way people interpret concepts such as genius, divinity, progress. A higher being offered his knowledge to the humans, and humanity gave him in exchange human emotions. People ultimately rejected the sudden progress and chose to be left to their own devices, and drove away that being. I would've loved to see an ending where humanity actually managed to use that technology, but I find this ending kinda fitting.
Sorry for the barrage of text, I really wanted to say all this >.< I hope I was coherent xD
And this is just my opinion, by no means I'm saying it is the correct view or anything, it's just how I interpreted it. I would love to hear your opinion on this~

LeonLanford said:
Some of things confused me:

1. I'm confused about the daughter.. Hanamori said he raised her for 16 years. Where did he raised her? Parallel world? She seems to be wearing very generic school uniform.
So that means Shindo in this world is dead and Shindo is alive on the other parallel world? If that's true, how about Hanamori in the other parallel world? It's making me more confused the more I think about it.

2. Saraka's ring is supposed to be her seal? When she was young she didn't wear any ring, how come when she's in college she already wearing ring? If that ring is a seal, why did she not wear it since young? The ring has been zoomed in multiple times but there's no explanation about it.

3. Why did Shindo need to die? If she got that OP daughter I don't think he need to die? Is it for the dramatic plot? Did his death was a trigger to activate his daughter noble phantasm? I think the attack would be cooler if the summoned car hit Yahakui.



Agreed.
I was disappointed after fake Shindo came out. Literally everyone just agreed what the fake Shindo said, they're like brainwashed.
Hanamori which is on par with Prime Minister also has been only in front of his desk all the time, no wonder Shindo refused the job.

Shindo was great at the prequel episode, I was expecting more like that. Meanwhile Saraka since the beginning does not have the attitude and behaviour of 'ace' negotiator, her boss was even worse. No wonder she's an ace at her department.

SongstressSL said:


Agreed, haha. Saraka was the true villain of the story. And for me, their daughter is just a plothole.

I agree that Saraka is the true villain.. She forced her ideals to Shindo(brainwashing), killed him, made Hanamori lost 16 years of his life and forced him to raise her daughter. I think she's laughing at the end on the background.



Her daughter is Shindo's noble phantasm! Read my post above :)
The one who raised her was Hanamori, he wasted 16 years for that.
Why does it need to be 16 years? Not 12? Not 14? 16 years is the exact trigger needed for noble phantasm!

Masood_sama_XN said:


1. There were no parallel world or multi universe, they were just in sealed place somewhere near boundary

2. Who did make the ring and seal?

3. Just with no other anisotropic, Shindo's copy could have turn down Zashunina and teach him to love human's world (Why he should love human world where there are always wars going on different countries and humans kill each other?)
Why can't an anisotropic in higher dimension copy a human rightly? (Because cloning is bad?)
or take that crazy physicist girl to anisotropic, she would gladly come, Is Shindo special?

"DBZ level final battle"? Ending was more like Sailor Moon with no love



26 years old Hanamori, after 16 years of life like prison, 42 years old Hanamori has no difference but just two wrinkle around his mouth which I didn't had notice at first
When Hanamori is supposed to raise her and not die at the end, why not be her biological father?
and her 16th birthday, his father funeral and she becoming an anisotropic murderer happens on same day