Quanzhi Gaoshou Episode 7 Discussion

Hinata said:
Feel even more bad for Yifan seeing him animated and really tf the only reason ik whats going on at the beginning is due to reading the LN but its prob confusing asf to the non LN readers.

rayeine said:
Ahhh the design for WJX is so pretty I'm shocked.

ap1001 said:

L-Ryoshi said:
Okay, yet again I fail to understand the situation regarding him deciding to terminate his contract with his original company. I mean, so what if the Gunner Goddess decided to follow him and quit along with him? I highly doubt it would be an issue for either of them to get back into the scene with another team. In fact, I fail to understand why him deciding to quit would even be an issue here.

Did they ever explain how the contracts are drawn up? Because for one thing stepping away from the industry for a certain period of time normally entails that the people terminating your contracts will have to provide you with adequate compensation in order to do so (otherwise why else would anyone do so on such unfavorable terms anyway?), and secondly, if the option to switch to another team was always available, then why would he not want the Gunner Pro girl to do so and swap to a less tyrannical team? If he was really looking out for the girl, why would he want to let her stay in this team that kicked himself out? Given her status as a poster girl, I wouldn't put it past other teams to pay off any fees to terminate her current contract and bring her to their own teams, no?

That aside, this newly introduced team's Captain, the Magician guy (yet again I have issues with keeping track of even more names that are being thrown out here) is one shrewd dude. After gauging who the MC is, he sends all his secondary members out to train against him. He's basically doing for free what the MC's old team wanted him to do for peanuts. Genius!

And what's with this blatant McDonald's advertising? I mean, I know they're probably the biggest sponsors, but.. at least show us some real food that you'd actually sell instead of that weird ass ice cream.. I couldn't even find that desert on the Chinese McDee's website :P

ap1001 said:


Pros contract specifies the number of years they would work with the team, if the player jumps team in the contract term it is considered violation and they have to compensate the Team's lose. Cause all star players are expansive, their contract is usually millions of Yuan, if the company sign you up for two years, and you ditch them half way through, they are losing millions of Yuan. Of course you have to pay the violation fee, this is completely logical term that makes sure that the Team's wouldn't go bankrupt when the players toss them under the bus.

Other team's can't pay for contract violation, the law of the pro league prohibits it, which is to keep a value of trust within the league, if all the players began violating their contract what's the point of having a contract in the first place. The players can be exchanged along with their contract, but both Team's manager must agree with it, MuCheng is EE's money tree/poster girl, exchanging her would piss off all the fans and lose them a lot of money, so they won't do it.

Ye Xiu's retirement is a term written into his contract, so he doesn't need to pay the violation fee, but he also can't play for season 8 and the early season 9. EE let him go so easily because he never had any commercial value, so the feeling was mutual. MuCheng is EE's money tree, they wouldn't ditch her no matter what, and she is professional enough to still perform on field and for marketing, even though in daily life the wedge is driven.

EE want YX to retire, cause they wouldn't exchange him with another team, that would severely damage EE's chance to win the Championship and have the fans riot over EE being "retarded". But keeping him have no monetary or additional PR value, he wouldn't even join the news conference after a good game to comment on the performance of the team, so Liu Hao had to do it for years. So the best way to safely remove him was to have a season so bad, that it makes YX retiring seem obvious, this way, team gets a new start, EE's opponent teams wouldn't get stronger and they get more money.

L-Ryoshi said:


If that were the case, then the next question would be, why would the MC be stupid enough to have a clause in his contract that prevents himself from playing if he retires from the team in the first place, and from what it looks like (since he has to work in a net cafe) without adequate compensation as well.

And if he knew that his old team were trying to screw him over, AND he had the power to convince the Gunner girl to leave with him (and reneg on her contract), why would he not do it? You said it yourself, she's a money tree, so why would it be hard to convince some sponsors of the girl to help pay off her termination fee. It doesn't have to even be by another team. If she's so marketable anyway, what's stopping them from forming a plan to move her from terminating her contract and finding another team to play? She would be a money tree anywhere she'd play anyway.

I'm viewing this like how the most marketable players in football can basically choose to do whatever they want to get out of a club if they're unhappy with it. I don't see how it's any different in this situation. If the Gunner girl is a money tree, I doubt that she'd be poor or anything, no? She must be earning plenty herself.

Oh, and was any of what you just typed explained in the anime before?

louissnape said:
just gonna randomly drop this PPAP!Zhou Zekai over here becuz reason
http://www.bilibili.com/video/av10498428/

ap1001 said:


Retirement from keeps from playing isn't in his contract, it is the league rule. All retired players need to sit out a year before returning, or else you are making retirement an easily abusable way to get out of the termination fee. Again, even retiring him is still a PR nightmare, he is lucky that Tao Xuan just didn't ask him for additional compensation, which legally speaking he really should be compensating EE for all those years of missing money (The league actually have a saying "Ye Qiu delayed the advancement of the pro league by 2 years", specifically because he did 0 marketing).

Again, one no team would purchase a launcher right now in the league. Two, She is a money tree for EE, sponsorship money goes to EE and is payed in salary, the player don't do the finance themselves. Finance is not that simple, teams need to measure the value of what they are spending and what they are purchasing, also do you know that the money comes from the fans PR is important. Say you have a pro who breaks the contract with their team and run to another team, how would the fans feel, most would feel betrayed and angry, angry fans don't generate ticket and merchandise revenue. Plus, most of MuCheng's fans are also fans of EE, they like seeing dancing rain together with One Autumn Leaf, breaking this provides no benefit for both sides. MuCheng's career and EE's business would both take a blow, not worth it. YX would still retire anyway, because one, personally he doesn't want to join another team in the league (top teams are too stable to take him, low teams have no potential even if they take him), secondly, most teams in the league can't take him (this is the man who ruined their chances at becoming champions in season 1,2,3, Tyranny fans would most likely throw bricks at their clubs window if Tyranny actually took him in.)

Essentially, no this is not like a marketable football player, the popularity is a three way factor, player, character, team, if one of the factors is missing, the popularity would drop severely. And fans don't take favourite players betraying their favourite team very well, they get confused and angry, sometimes irrationally angry, either way it is not good for anyone.

Finally, millions of yuan is not something you can just dig out of your pocket, do you have any idea of money? Even if they could it makes the players professionalism highly questionable, who in the world would work with someone who doesn't follow contracts.

YeXiu screwed himself mostly by having his Chinese ID Card name and screen name different, so it is not legal for him to do sponsorship under the name Ye Qiu. Which wouldn't work with Tao Xuan, cause this is losing out tens of millions of dollars from the brand recognition, if you cause someone to lose that much money, getting kicked off the team is already pretty soft blow. He doesn't do much interview for publicity, in all 10 years of glory he only had THREE interviews and it was done on QQ. This is pretty much unacceptable if you are actually running a business dedicated on making revenue.

Yes, Huang Shao Tian's recommendation is pretty much just a recommendation, Blue Rain wouldn't take YeXiu and MuCheng anyway, their team comp can't fit them in, you can't just buy two players who are useless to the team, EE's not stupid and YeXiu is too ambitious to just stay in a low-tier team.

tlst9999 said:
I'm a bit disappointed though. The novels describe his face as "having one eye larger than the other".

Yifan's design also disappointed me. I was expecting a junior badass in training look. Like this - http://imgur.com/a/MyOOh

L-Ryoshi said:


Yet again, was any of what you mentioned explained clearly in the anime? Because if I hadn't read it here, I doubt that I could understand these issues that the characters are facing.

Also, I'm not sure if you understand or not, but popular players in the real world will be popular and have sponsors outside of their profession. Think Ronaldo or Neymar. Apart from their salaries from their respective clubs, they earn millions through image rights and advertisement fees. That was what I was asking about. I mean, just because the Gunner Girl was in one team doesn't mean she cannot earn money elsewhere and from other sources. If this E-Sport was so popular a phenomenon and if Gunner Girl was as big of a money tree as she was, then for sure she'd be able to earn more money than just a meager salary from her E Sports team, no? Like that dude doing the McDonalds commercial at the end. He's probably the best example of what I'm talking about.

None of that was explained in the anime.

L-Ryoshi said:


Yet again, was any of what you mentioned explained clearly in the anime? Because if I hadn't read it here, I doubt that I could understand these issues that the characters are facing.

Also, I'm not sure if you understand or not, but popular players in the real world will be popular and have sponsors outside of their profession. Think Ronaldo or Neymar. Apart from their salaries from their respective clubs, they earn millions through image rights and advertisement fees. That was what I was asking about. I mean, just because the Gunner Girl was in one team doesn't mean she cannot earn money elsewhere and from other sources. If this E-Sport was so popular a phenomenon and if Gunner Girl was as big of a money tree as she was, then for sure she'd be able to earn more money than just a meager salary from her E Sports team, no? Like that dude doing the McDonalds commercial at the end. He's probably the best example of what I'm talking about.

None of that was explained in the anime.

alexielle said:


Let me explain in a way you'll understand. It's China.

To be more exact, her fans will probably turn on her if she leaves the team. You get to see multiple instances of this situation later on in the novel.

ap1001 said:


Pretty much this, as you can see, fandom are not the most reasonable people to please.

L-Ryoshi said:


So to put it into even simpler terms, none of what you typed was explained in the anime, so non LN/WN readers would understand. And also, by your explanation, the way this godly E Sport is being marketed is actually a bad deal for the players individually because in this story's version of the world, China shits on the individual's ability to make a name and decent living for themselves and to negotiate their own properly deserved remunerations in accordance to their own popularity and abilities, is that what you mean?

L-Ryoshi said:


So to put it into even simpler terms, none of what you typed was explained in the anime, so non LN/WN readers would understand. And also, by your explanation, the way this godly E Sport is being marketed is actually a bad deal for the players individually because in this story's version of the world, China shits on the individual's ability to make a name and decent living for themselves and to negotiate their own properly deserved remunerations in accordance to their own popularity and abilities, is that what you mean?

L-Ryoshi said:


So to put it into even simpler terms, none of what you typed was explained in the anime, so non LN/WN readers would understand. And also, by your explanation, the way this godly E Sport is being marketed is actually a bad deal for the players individually because in this story's version of the world, China shits on the individual's ability to make a name and decent living for themselves and to negotiate their own properly deserved remunerations in accordance to their own popularity and abilities, is that what you mean?

Tyiriel said:


The most important part to note is that it doesn't really matter if they thoroughly explain why you can't play for a year after retiring. What matters is that it was noted very clearly in the first episode by Su Mucheng.
When an official source (the show) states a rule for the world within the show, that rule should hold true throughout the show and its' reasoning would not have to be explained more than it being "impossible".
Now - apart from the show itself, if you have any sort of basic knowledge regarding contracts within any competitive team based sport, you should know that clubs can trade players and that players can BREAK their contracts for a huge termination fee. In Ye's case he decided to BREAK that contract, but since the club knew of the threat he presented in the pro scene, rather than forcing him to pay a huge termination fee, they decided to destroy him thoroughly by making him retire, which in turn results in him being unable to return to the pro-scene for a full year, which is a piece of information that we are given very clearly, and repeatedly.
As I explained earlier, a rule within a show does not need explaining, if this feels like a bad argument, you are free to take a look at any amount of anime shows, who do exactly the same thing. The unexplained but obvious rule is more common in 12 episode animes than longer ones, simply due to time restrictions.

I think your response to his/her quote was quite stupid, in that the following text has nothing to do with what the person above actually said.
You say that "he/she meant" that individual players are portrayed as having a hard time making a name and a living in this adaption - yet every time a pro player opens his/her mouth regarding money, they are said to receive hundreds of thousands of yuan per game they play, as well as barely being able to show their faces in public due to being too popular.
As a comparison, Ye Xiu earns 1800 Yuan per month. (May be per week? Not sure, never explained).
The person you responded to didn't mention anything about the pro players having a hard time making a living for him/herself.

L-Ryoshi said:

Good points there, but I can guess what others here would say to defend their countries' beloved anime, that it's all within context of the show's mechanics. Giving a second thought to this, I would have to reneg on some of the points I mentioned about football players and image rights if we are going by "their" standards, even though what you mentioned is also valid (like why would pro's of any team have a hard time making money, regardless of whether they were doing well in the game, we see Gunner Girl get mentioned like an idol every time some outsider speaks of them). If China is really all about the team and that individuals don't get a fair cut of their earnings based on image rights, then it's perfectly understandable I guess.... (whether it's fair or not is another issue).

My issue was that they'd never explained why the MC forced Gunner girl to stay on if all it took was for someone to pay off her contract to take her away from her current team, be it another team or an external sponsor who would rather see them play at another team. Stuff like this happens in football and other sports, but apparently doesn't here.

They mentioned that each individual player couldn't earn enough off their salary to pay off their contractual buyout clauses. I'm assuming that means that even though they are receiving hundreds of thousands per game, that the buyout for early termination may be in the region of millions or tens of millions?
This opens a whole other can of worms here, like how did the company know how much they should set those buyout clauses anyway? If these contracts are negotiated before the players even became famous, that sounds like a lot of unfair contracts to tie the individual to a firm if you ask me. But again it makes sense if each individual is not being paid according to their worth to the team (like in the real world) and just being paid the same amount as everyone else. Again, none of this stuff was mentioned in the anime.

They also mentioned that teams weren't allowed to poach from other teams due to a "gentleman's agreement" for the fairness of the league or whatever. My issue was that none of these mechanics weren't ever mentioned in the anime (and were only explained by WN readers in this thread).

To be honest, I feel like this issue is basically just a clash in the ideal of how business works in China and elsewhere, and that I have little knowledge as to how the former works because heck who knows the internal workings of Chinese businesses anyway.
We can't help that they assume we understand how things work as normal, but that's based on their perspective, and not according to the perspective of how others view things as individual earning power (based on ability) and image rights.

Tyiriel said:


To be completely upright and honest I would not go so far as to defend the plot where it comes to Su Mucheng not being able to buy out of the contract - or give a detailed explanation to how much money is involved bladibla, you get the point.

What I can say is that there is no solid information as to exactly why Su Mucheng can not technically buy out/swap teams etc, however what I can say is: Since the plot is set up in the way that it portrays a "solo OP MC" (Not negative, the story supports him), Su Mucheng is left out as a "VERY IMPORTANT side character" and an objective for the future pretty much. If she could be released from the contract, Ye Xiu would definitely have had it much easier, and made much better choices, which would result in a fairly bland start for the story.
In other words: The technical reason behind why breaking the contract is impossible for Su Mucheng is not clear, however it's definitely required. In other words it's up to us to decide: Is it because of losing face? Fans? Money? She's just stuck in there for plot reasons as it stands now. But it definitely must be this way for the plot to be interesting.

I'm going to use an ugly example, but bear with me:
In SAO Alfheim, Asuna in the birdcage could represent Su Mucheng in Jiashi - There is no good reason as to why she is in the cage, but without her being in the cage our most hated Kirito would never have needed enter Alfheim and we would not have needed to suffer for 11 more episodes. If Su Mucheng could leave Jiashi without trouble, it would probably be quite easy to get sponsors and just join or create a new team, rather than having to experience the game from the scratch and face all that trouble which is the parts that most of us want to see in TKA.

L-Ryoshi said:
My issue was that they'd never explained why the MC forced Gunner girl to stay on if all it took was for someone to pay off her contract to take her away from her current team, be it another team or an external sponsor who would rather see them play at another team. Stuff like this happens in football and other sports, but apparently doesn't here.

eplipswich said:


I can kind of answer this. The thing is that, if someone pays off her contract to take her away from her current team, that would mean having to sign a new contract. And what does that mean? It'll most likely be longer than 1.5 year contract. We'll just have to assume that there's no such thing as a 1-year contract in esports in this anime. And the thing is that, eventually, Su Mucheng will want to join up with Ye Xiu. And there's signs that Ye Xiu is creating his own team, so yeah.

ap1001 said:


Bullshit, don't compare Su MuCheng to Asuna, cause unlike a certain waifu bait, MuCheng is highly independent and capable. Having a contract with EE doesn't stop her from playing with YX on the MMO part at all, she can even spend vacation at Happy internet cafe and be as sarcastic as she want to Tao Xuan, because none of these violate the contract, and Tao Xuan doesn't want to end on too sour a note, he doesn't even bother with MuCheng most of the time.

She can't leave because monetary, fans and YeXiu needs time to prepare to return. So why break the contract? When the story gives you completely logical explanations and you ignore it, this is not plot armor, as much as willful ignorance.

A player betraying their fanbase is not a pretty sight, as Zhang JiaLe can attest to.

As for how the Teams set the monetary value for players, characters, it is simple, for characters it is based on the investment on silver equipment, and players it is based on All-Star average contract value, the Championship money and past sponsorship value.

God-tier players (Huang ShaoTian, Wang JieXi, Han WenQing), gets 10 mil contract over multiple years. MuCheng, FangRui, all-star level gets around 6.5 mil multi-year contract. I think it is pretty obvious that the contract breaking fee isn't cheap, the only player in history of glory that can voluntarily break their contract without becoming bankrupt is Tang Rou and she is unbelievably rich.

Also, you were wrong on YX's retirement, retiring would be allowed if the Team allows, this is not considered to be violating the contract, therefore there is no contract breaking fee.

Tyiriel said:

I think you caught a lot of that wrong. Let me explain step by step.
First of all, I'm not condemning the plot, I have read the full novel in chinese and really like it - I am responding to a person stating a fairly valid question about the anime itslef
I didn't compare Asuna to Su Mucheng, nor was this a major point in my reply, I compared the concept of being "trapped" for the plot to have any meaning. More elaborated: If Su Mucheng chose to retire (as would have been logical, since she only "wants to play a small part" and SHOULD be stacked with money to be able to make it for a year), the plot would pretty much have been YX and SM living together and playing by themselves, and maybe creating or joining a team after a year - A very stale plot until that year ends.

It's obvious that you've read the novel - so you know the character backstory.
You said "Ye Xiu needs time to return" - But since Ye Xiu and Su Mucheng has been together for 10 years and are basically family AND Su Mucheng witnessed Ye Xiu getting straight kicked off of the team, wouldn't it also make sense for her to join him? This would obviously screw Su Mucheng up too in terms of fans, income as well as the violation fee (She would defintely not be allowed to retire as Ye Xiu was due to her immense commercial value)(as you noted) and Ye Xiu would probably stop her, (The plot wouldn't allow for it, but it would make perfect sense with her character).
My main point in my earlier reply was: Neither novel nor adaption mentioned why she didn't or couldn't break her contract. The novel goes slightly deeper into consequences, but we already know that Su Mucheng is wealthy, and would almost definitely be able to pay the violation fee according to the numbers that we recieve (Money/game, games played/season, amount of seasons she has played, sponsorships etc)
So: In all fairness, there are "reasons and speculations" to back up why she didn't join Ye Xiu, but it mostly boils down to "The plot would not allow it"- Plot reasons - Which I am happy for, since it would make it so much worse.

The part about the contracts being long and expensive are all correct, but the last part is definitely not worded correctly:
Ye Xiu TERMINATED his contract, in other words he was at the club's mercy. Tao Xuan decided to make him retire rather than putting him in heavy debt. This is obvious in both the first episode of the anime as well as in the novel.

Finally - Try to use as little material from the novel as you can when it comes to "reinforcing the plot" - Unless you're replying to something that really needs clarification.
When the anime doesn't provide you with a clear representation of why something doesn't work - backing it up with source material will not help the anime plot itself.

How was I suppose to know that things don't work the same in China anyway?

alexielle said:
If you think my comments are 'less than constructive', I see no point in continuing this discussion.

To end off, I'll just leave this here.

MagePhaira said:
LOL @ 7:02, I was saying... "Awww..." Then BAM! It's actually collection of fee. XD

MagePhaira said:
*^* And Jiexi is so pretty *^*

L-Ryoshi said:


So to put it into even simpler terms, none of what you typed was explained in the anime, so non LN/WN readers would understand. And also, by your explanation, the way this godly E Sport is being marketed is actually a bad deal for the players individually because in this story's version of the world, China shits on the individual's ability to make a name and decent living for themselves and to negotiate their own properly deserved remunerations in accordance to their own popularity and abilities, is that what you mean?

L-Ryoshi said:


I was actually trying to be nice. Condescending and passive-aggressively arrogant would fit you more to be honest. There's no need to be an straight up asshole at someone for asking for clarification to something that they don't understand and expect others do, but I guess that's your standard setting. I asked because it didn't seem right to me. Just cause you find it normal in your everyday life doesn't make it so for other cultures. They never explained it in the show, ergo the question. What's so wrong with that?

Lay off with the unnecessary attitude, will ya. At least the other people above were being civil about it. Jesus this fan base.... you're just giving it a bad name.

Pknoctis said:
Terrible CGI, but episode was lit. Also, Jiexi's character design looks very similar to Ye Xiu, I thought they were the same person for a sec.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:


You're reasoning wasn't totally wrong, Ye Xiu admitted himself in this episode he could have transferred to another team (this team probably would pay the contract breaking or transfer fee) and the only dubious reason he didn't do it : Mucheng ???

I also asked myself, like you : why not transfer then? if he could keep on being the best, wreck EE in the same time for the fun and after one and a half year Mucheng come along (if she's still good, no team would say no)? That was the logical story but with that there would be no "I start alone frome zero" plot.

The Mucheng excuse sounded to me like "the poor girl won't be able to breath if I'm far away playing in another team and she'll break her contract".
Well, whatever, in the anime world, best player in Glory history can't transfer team, doesn't sound realistic to me above all when it's mentioned it was possible but I'll have to deal with it!

ap1001 said:


Chap 622

"...
In addition, emotional attachment to the team also had a factor in his retirement.

You people want spoilers, fine here is the spoilers. Can people use their brain for a sec, or do I have to make a logic map, for all the people who can't put 1+1=2 together.

Chap 501
....

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
Right! It seems you almost understood.

Now ... You should think about your argumentation ... and then think about the discussion in the beginning of episode 7. It could have been something like :
Shao Tian :" No matter what, you should have tried to transfer to another team!"
Ye Xiu : "I couldn't transfer because, nobody would have taken me, it would have cost too much and they wouldn't have necessarily won with me"

easy, isn't it? makes sense somewhat.


But then ...

what did we actually get in episode 7 ?
That :
Shao Tian :" No matter what, you should have tried to transfer to another team!"
Ye Xiu : "If I transferred team, what about Muchang?"


See? There's a huge difference in the logic/reasoning and overall meaning.

All your arguments were thrown out of the window by the guy who wrote the dialogs. Great, isn't it? It's not me, it's the guy who wrote that all.


To finish, Muchang being described as the little dog that must follow big bro Ye Xiu at all cost even if it means going into retirement for a year, is for me a weak idea, it's possible, sure, it's anime, women are irrational and overly devoted to Male MC after all but it is still weak and that's what we've got. Nothing of all your better sounding arguments.

He could transfer. He didn't.
Why? Because Muchang.

Yeah, sure!


By the way



second point I already answered this one but you brought it back, so my answer again :