| Speaking of the magical girl genre, where do you guys stand on Puella Magi Madoka Magica? Say what you will about Gen Urobuchi and it's more questionable elements (which I do agree with), but at the least, I felt that it had some of the most endearing and strongly-made female characters that I've seen in an anime of recent years. I would also vouch for the women of Attack on Titan, but seeing it in the relations, that kinda goes without saying. XD |
Octochan said: Speaking of the magical girl genre, where do you guys stand on Puella Magi Madoka Magica? Say what you will about Gen Urobuchi and it's more questionable elements (which I do agree with), but at the least, I felt that it had some of the most endearing and strongly-made female characters that I've seen in an anime of recent years. I would also vouch for the women of Attack on Titan, but seeing it in the relations, that kinda goes without saying. XD I liked Madoka, a lot, and it was a good series, but the characters were not strongly made. They were all tropes and the reason we connected with them was because they were tropes and characters we had seen before. Madoka was pretty much a bare-bones deconstruction. It successfully deconstructed its genre, introduced some interesting concepts and themes, and that was it. I also wouldn't say it was empowering- One girl lost her sanity over a boy, the others lost their sanity in varrying timelines and it seemed that no one's personality was set in stone. They all changed depending on the timeline. We have a crazed Madoka fangirl in the club, one of the officers in fact, and even she hasn't tried to put Madoka or any of it's characters onto the list. |
Amberleh said: In regards to the make up product placement- I think that's what throws some people off. You've got things like Barbie, where that make up and fashion stuff is really shoved down your throat and isn't really mentally healthy for young girls, but I think shows like Sailor Moon and Precure use it in a way that isn't forceful. It's girly, but it feels more innocent. I'm not sure how to describe what I mean, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. Yes, I think I know what you mean. Barbie's messaging conveys to girls that they need makeup to be feminine, which is extremely problematic, to put it lightly. It contributes to body-image issues when girls are learning from an early age that they're ideal when they're altered rather than as they are. Sailor Moon's makeup was more incidental to their identity, since the girls only seemed to wear it when transformed. (You could argue that their conception of makeup as armor is quite adult, since many women understand makeup as a calculated asset or armor rather than a necessity.) We need more sisterhoods on TV. Agree 100%. How about Claymore, Blood+, or Ghost in the Shell? |
Amberleh said: Octochan said: Speaking of the magical girl genre, where do you guys stand on Puella Magi Madoka Magica? Say what you will about Gen Urobuchi and it's more questionable elements (which I do agree with), but at the least, I felt that it had some of the most endearing and strongly-made female characters that I've seen in an anime of recent years. I would also vouch for the women of Attack on Titan, but seeing it in the relations, that kinda goes without saying. XD I liked Madoka, a lot, and it was a good series, but the characters were not strongly made. They were all tropes and the reason we connected with them was because they were tropes and characters we had seen before. Madoka was pretty much a bare-bones deconstruction. It successfully deconstructed its genre, introduced some interesting concepts and themes, and that was it. I also wouldn't say it was empowering- One girl lost her sanity over a boy, the others lost their sanity in varrying timelines and it seemed that no one's personality was set in stone. They all changed depending on the timeline. We have a crazed Madoka fangirl in the club, one of the officers in fact, and even she hasn't tried to put Madoka or any of it's characters onto the list. Fair enough. It's honestly been something that I've been internally debating about since seeing this thread, and I felt it'd be good to have multiple perspectives. Forgive me if this was a dumb moment. XD |
| I'm pretty sure I added the major from Ghost in the Shell. I'm not sure if I would say GitS is empowering (it's not sexist either, but I don't think it has enough elements outside of the major herself to be added), but certainly the Major is a strong female character and belongs on our relations. Blood +, as I recall, had pedophilia (with a younger boy) and rape. It was demonized, but I remember seeing the episode with that and becoming extremely uncomfortable. Also Sayaka is surrounded by guys and relies on them for both emotional and battle support, as I recall. Claymore I'm not sure about. I watched it, and the females are certainly strong and the relationship between Theresa and Claire was beautiful, but I just don't know if the show is empowering so much as the mangaka sucks at drawing men so all the main characters are women. Also there wasn't a whole lot of personality in regards to the women for sufficient character development. The best part of the entire series was the segment with Claire and Theresa. But I'm open to other opinions. @Octo- No, it wasn't dumb, I even debated it myself. =) |
| @n_u Blood+, I'd be hesitant about adding it as well, mostly for the rape scene and pedophiliac elements as Amberleh said. Can't say much about Claymore, since I haven't seen it yet. Is it a good series in it's own regard? @Amberleh Thanks. I've thought about Persona 4 (which had both a manga and anime adaptation) as well, and I know there's been back and forth talk about it's female characters on other parts on the internet (like Madoka), but I'm more hesitant about that one. |
Amberleh said: IMO Durarara's major female characters were quite well written compared to a lot of other anime, however there are only two female leads compared to at least six major male characters and while both are solid characters, neither of them are remarkable enough to go on the relations. Plus, virtually every other female side character is a yandere of some sort.As for Durarara, I have yet to see it, but I think a few of our other members have so perhaps they can shed some light on it. I don't think Madoka Magica qualifies either, empowerment really wasn't what it was going for. |
Amberleh said: Earwen said: I'm more curious why Ranma 1/2 is there. I ran it by some others and we added it because it was a harem that actually featured an attractive male lead who wasn't a loser and that the girls all had personality. The fact that it ends up being more of a love shape than just a harem also helps. I'm open to other opinions though. But is that enough to be on the relations list? It looks out of place with the likes of Sailor Moon or Utena. There are other harems which I could say the same about. Bakemonogatari for example. It has great female characters. An attractive male lead. The lead and one of the girls start dating pretty early in the series. It also is very self aware and actually parodies some harem tropes. Some could argue the same about Clannad (besides the last bit). I don't think either should be on the relations. Or Ranma. Besides, this. kitajima said: pretty much all girls there were in some way molested. and that whole panties-stealing thing? sickening. |
| I've read all released Claymore chapters and I think I could say something here. As it's particularly fast paced, characters' stories often aren't developped enough, but the crucial ones - Miria's, Teresa's and Clare's, are shown in retrospections, mostly in extra scenes. (Miria's http://www.mangapark.com/manga/Claymore/c73.2/all , more of Teresa http://www.mangapark.com/manga/Claymore/c73.1/all ). Clare's story, the way she changed, her feelings and inner conflicts are shown pretty well for a manga that focuses on action. There was more of it after... well, it's impossible to say all i want without minor spoilers, so... seven years of hiding in the north, when she started her search for Raki, and felt ready to get her revenge on Priscilla. And two latest chapters actually focus on her mental state. Priscilla's background is also somewhat (it's more of a sketch) explained, but it has a strong shock factor, so I don't know how to feel about it. Other characters' reasons behind their choices are only sketched. Dietrich simply explained herself in few sentences, but it was enough to get an image of her as a warrior. It's shameful that about Helen and Deneve we only know as much as that their villages were located nearby and were destroyed at the same time. There's also Clarice and her story is rather beautiful. She was a failed creation. Because of shortage of warriors, she was given number 47 nonetheless and was assigned to the low-priority north. Before being turned into a silver-eyed witch she was homeless and didn't care much about yoma invading her hometown. Instead she's seen becoming a claymore as a chance for her to mean something in this world. Despite turning out to be an incomplete soldier or rather because of that, she was later assigned to take care of a talented but mentally unstable child-warrior. it's sick, really, what organization's done to that little girl, but where i'm going with this, is that Clarice's story, although simple, was shown well enough to sympatize with her, and had a sad but beautiful finale. Also here is a small but rather unexpected thing that blew me a little and still something jumps in me whenever i think of it - http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/211/474254/13.jpg . friendship, wooow. actually a very complicated kind of friendship. overally i think that relations between warriors are various and intriguing, i really like how they were portrayed. Solidarity of women is (and in fact kinda's got to be?) strong in this series. But it does have some flaws, for example Priscilla often walking around naked... In a way understable, but is it really necessary? and unexplainable skimpiness of some warrior's outfits http://www.zerochan.net/981416#full Well, on the other hand also sexy Tabatha, Helen, Deneve and Yuma's clothes fully cover their bodies. Well, I guess it's hard to avoid a bit of fanservice. And in the series it was always seen as an absolutely normal thing. Same for the scene when little Clare undressed and gave back her outfit to Teresa. It was shocking for people around, of course, but they didn't see it as something to be shamed for, instead they simply felt sorry for a little girl and gave her help and comfort. I think that Miria leading a revolution and Priscilla having a potential to become the strongest warrior in history, more powerful than all men, and Teresa being probably the second strongest in history of organization, is empowering. Okay, so so much for good and not-necessarily-bad. But there's one thing that is completely wrong there. Of course the whole notion that male warriors were failures, because they HAD to succumb to pleasure, which is kinda rape-y, while it seems like only woman were capable of controlling themselves, is unforgivable. Especially as it looks that author needed a REASON to draw a manga about female, and not male, warriors and, in addition, all he could come up with was one of the crucial myths of patriarchal mythology. It's really disheartening and probably excludes Claymore from this club's relations list. But some characters might be added. I'm not really sure whether I should still rant here, as i probably discredited myself completely yesterday, and I feel ashamed for having writing without having certainty. But Claymore is one of the series I know well, so I wanted to contribute. I hope I'm not an eyesore here. |
amasangJan 5, 2014 1:22 PM
| @Earwen Again, it's been ages since I've seen a couple of episodes, but...yikes. So much for my initial enthusiasm towards watching Ranma 1/2 proper, and this is coming from someone who liked Inuyasha (which, sure as hell, was no saint either). I'll still see it in full for myself and draw my own conclusions, but yeah. >.> @kitajima A pretty interesting write-up about Claymore, I'm curious enough to at least try it. And don't worry too much about contributing, I'm honestly still fairly new to feminist circles, but I'm still trying to help and all. |
OctochanJan 5, 2014 8:49 AM
| You know, I think I read all of Rumiko's works when I was in middle school, and despite all the bad, Ranma was still my favourite. Because it was utterly hilarious. Sometimes overdone, sometimes just stupid, which is hard to avoid with a, what 50 volumes?, manga, but it had its absolutely wonderful moments. |
amasangJan 5, 2014 1:23 PM
| Alright I removed Ranma 1/2 and I won't add Claymore. Thanks guys! |
| I'm happy I could be of some use. Despite everything Claymore deserves lots of credit for truthfully showing women, even though it was drawn and written by a guy. I think some characters like Teresa, Clare, Miria, Clarice and Galatea could be added, because they are outstanding individuals, and their stories are of the same quality and power as famous stories about male warriors. |
| Thanks for your sharing your thoughts, kitajima! It really helps because often we haven't seen entire series or our memory's a little spotty, so it's great to get more input, which reminds me, has anyone seen Armitage? That seems to me like the female Akira or Terminator, so I think it deserves a place, but it's been a while, I may be forgetting things. Also, I was a little curious why Saiunkoku Monogatari is on the list? |
new_user said: Also, I was a little curious why Saiunkoku Monogatari is on the list? Now that question confuses me. Saiunkoku Monogatari is the epitome of a pro-feminist anime, through and through. It's right up there in terms of deserving with Utena and Versailles, maybe even more-so. I'm also confused as to why you dropped it, it's a fantastic series. It's about a woman in ancient China fighting for her right to be a government official, despite the fact that women were not allowed to be such. She never gives up on her dream and keeps fighting for what she wants. In addition, the reverse harem element is handled well- After a certain event, she realizes that she needs to be direct, and proceeds to tell anyone who has feelings for her (that she is aware of) that she has no interest, so as not to drag them along. Saiunkoku Monogatari is one of THE most deserving titles on our list. |
| Hm, my memory's vague, but I seem to remember the men spent most of the early episodes explaining what was what to the protagonist. But maybe that was just setup. I dropped it because I get bored with slice-of-life -method of delivery- not for any other reason. I'm quite willing to believe it was a good show regardless. Always good to know there's another feminist show out there. :) |
| I also dropped Saiunkoku Monogatari, but it was because I found it too slow paced at the time, I was in the mood for some action. But I think I remember that the whole explaining thing was simply because she just entered government walls, and some guys were assigned to explain everything she needed to know. I think it was just that. Why not add Oujo Alexandra to the list? It's a short (just three chapters) manga by Miuchi Suzue. Tells a story of a princess of Lastonia, who survived a great fire at the castle, but has become completely blind after that. Her mother died. Years later, her father also passed away, and she was the only rightful successor. But her foster mother wanted the throne for her son, so she's done everything in her might to compromise young princess. The girl, however, has shown great skill, also's done what a blind person has to do - trusted others. She resolved even grave situations this way. |
| Yeaaaaaah I consider Clannad to be super sexist. Nagisa doesn't develop much at all. "Sometimes making her own decisions" doesn't say anything. She didn't have real hopes or dreams, and no matter what she did, everyone praised her or helped her. She was totally worthless. Tomoya and Akio were good characters, and that was pretty much it. All of the women were super poorly written. |
Amberleh said: Yeaaaaaah I consider Clannad to be super sexist. Nagisa doesn't develop much at all. "Sometimes making her own decisions" doesn't say anything. She didn't have real hopes or dreams, and no matter what she did, everyone praised her or helped her. She was totally worthless. Tomoya and Akio were good characters, and that was pretty much it. All of the women were super poorly written. That is pretty unfortunate. I did wanted to play the VN at one point, but never got around to it and I just got rid of it out of boredom. Guess I dodged a bullet? :P |
| Maybe we could have a seperate thread for the Bechdel test? Is Simoun really feminist? I watched just one episode and it felt like a simple fanservice show. |
Earwen said: Maybe we could have a seperate thread for the Bechdel test? Is Simoun really feminist? I watched just one episode and it felt like a simple fanservice show. Yeah I'm honestly still torn on Simoun, but it does discuss transgender issues. I only made it to like episode 5 or so though. |
| I'm co-signing on that Bechdel test thread. :3 I'd would like to see Simoun too, at least for how it handles trans* issues. Very rarely do I get to see legitimately accurate or even good/positive depictions, but I'd love to be proven wrong. |
| Curious about Simoun too now. Maybe I'll give it a spin. Have you guys read Slate article about the test? It turns out that movies that meet the standard rake in more money, so compliance is financially practical too! Although I agree with rest of the article that the test's not the end-all, just a good guess whether media has good representation of women. |
| If Strike Witches is indeed that feminist then they targeted the wrong audience, lol. |
| Do any of you guys watch Kuroko no Basuke? I know it's overwhelmingly a shounen series, but a lot of girls watch it and like it so I was just wondering if anyone here does watch it, what do you think about Aida Riko's character? Can she be considered a character relation? |
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| I've seen only the first season, but Riko was one of the best characters by far so I would be happy to add her if others agree. |
| I trust your judgement Rarity so feel free to add her. =) |
| That'd be great if Aida Riko was added to the list. She is one of the best kickass female characters I've come across. :) |
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| Done :) |
| Also for anime relations, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time and Wolf Children Ame and Yuki? They're both Hosoda Mamoru films. I feel like if you've watched either of them, they're kind of self-explanatory. Makoto in The Girl Who Leapt Through Time is pretty much the main focus and you see her grow in character as she realizes the consequences of her actions and embarks on a very unique journey. Wolf Children depicts a single mother who does her best to raise two wolf children and one of the protagonists, Yuki, is a young girl who grows up to learn about her own nature, her family, and her relationship with her friends. I think it does a wonderful job of celebrating motherhood and a mother's ability to love and appreciate her children no matter what they choose to be. |
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kawaiipapa said: Also for anime relations, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time and Wolf Children Ame and Yuki? They're both Hosoda Mamoru films. I feel like if you've watched either of them, they're kind of self-explanatory. Makoto in The Girl Who Leapt Through Time is pretty much the main focus and you see her grow in character as she realizes the consequences of her actions and embarks on a very unique journey. Wolf Children depicts a single mother who does her best to raise two wolf children and one of the protagonists, Yuki, is a young girl who grows up to learn about her own nature, her family, and her relationship with her friends. I think it does a wonderful job of celebrating motherhood and a mother's ability to love and appreciate her children no matter what they choose to be. Yeaaaaahhh actually... Wolf children I uh, I loved but I had a problem with. I gave it 9/10 instead of 10/10 because it became sexist at the end. It STARTED OUT empowering, but took a huge nosedive at the end. I think a couple of my officers share the same sentiments about it as myself. Yuki began as a really strong little girl, and Ame started out as scared. Suddenly, 2/3 of the way through their roles switched. Ame became this alpha male and Yuki turned into a typical little girl who just wanted to be liked and loved and have friends. She stopped being strong and they implied she was just going to repeat what happened to her mother- Which was fine, if her mother was the only character in the movie like that. The fact that they imply that both women have to fulfill this motherly role because they are women is very, very sexist. Oh, did I mention how they thought it would be super 'manly' to show Ame just turn away from his mother at the end instead of embracing her and talking to her? Yeah no. I think it was sexist towards men too, saying that he wasn't a real man unless he became this alpha male. I get why you would think it's empowering, and it STARTS OUT empowering but the ending just took a huge jump into the sexism territory. Girl Who Leapt Through Time I enjoyed but I can't say it's really empowering. She's just kind of a typical high school girl who then cries because her love is leaving her. |
| I also disagree with The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. Makoto's character actually didn't progress at all--every time Makoto time-jumped it was for her own personal gain or to take an opportunity wherein she could feel good about herself for doing something for others, and every time those "good intentions" backfired with serious negative consequences, she never learned her lesson. Her last jump may have been her one selfless act, but her feelings and the way they were revealed were another issue. |
| Aite, I can see what you guys mean for both those movies. Then for Wolf Children, are you saying that the mother character wasn't empowering as a female character either? As a mother figure? Is it because of her failure to keep Ame? I didn't really see the implications of Yuki following in her mother's footsteps either because I took it that she wanted to walk the path of the human as opposed to her brother. Does it make her weak for choosing to be a human? Sorry for so many questions haha. For Ame, as opposed to becoming an "alpha male," it seems he became more of an omega. A wolf, but a lonely outcasted wolf who does not join a pack but instead succeeds his "master." So I'm also a little hazy on the idea that the movie is saying that he can't be a real man unless he gives in to nature. I saw the both of them growing up to overcome the challenges they faced in life and the reality of what they've chosen to become. Their father sets an example of the difficulty (or impossibility) of choosing both a human and wolf life, which ends in his demise. I just thought it made sense for Yuki to choose to become human because her personality calls for social interaction with other humans, while Ame is a recluse and finds contentment in nature and his own companionship. I saw strength in the resolution of their choices. If the roles of Yuki and Ame were switched (ie. Yuki embraces her wolf form while Ame chooses to be a human) would it have been different in terms of the sexism towards the end? Though one thing I did not really approve of about the movie was Ame rejecting his mother, but in a way I thought it was also necessary to show the two opposites of the spectrum--one completely rejecting humanity while the other who wholly accepts it. I'm not saying that what you're saying is wrong at all. I think what you're saying is right and also very interesting because I never thought of it that way, but I just didn't see the sexism at the end? I guess I'm not as fine-tuned to finding sexist themes in media as well as the officers here, which is why I joined this club! I want to become more aware of feminist/anti-feminist themes when I'm watching things instead of mindlessly consuming what's thrown at my face, which is what I've done for a large portion of my sad life haha. :) |
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| I agree with Wolf Children. Both the female characters had to make huge sacrifices and change themselves in order to cope with what was thrown at them (Hana= sacrificing her education/career prospects for her children and Yuki =having to act more feminine in order to fit in with other girls) while Ame, who made the most selfish decision in the movie, was hailed for it. Jeez, I have so many issues with that ending. I don't view Yuki as weak for embracing her humanity, and I'm sure that any mother would have done the same as Hana did for her children. The problem is with how the narrative contrasts the girls with Ame. I think I would have the same problem if Yuki and Ame's roles were switched too, I absolutely hated how he just turned his back on his mother who had sacrificed absolutely EVERYTHING for his and his sister's sake, and how hard she had worked for everything the family had. It was just so... ugh. |
| Regarding Wolf Children, Mamoru Hosada said this in an interview: "I like the idea of using female protagonists because most lives of men are focused on the success or failure of their careers, while other big events, like marriages and raising children, play bigger parts in the lives of women, leaving more space for artistic creation." I do really like his movies, but he does have a conservative view of gender roles if this interview is representative. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2013-07-15/interview-mamoru-hosoda-director-of-wolf-children The whole interview is there if anybody is interested. |
fawkes said: Was it a conscious choice to include Emma but not Otoyomegatari on the manga list? Some people don't think Otoyomegatari is feminist (which I don't quite get) so I was just wondering. Emmrys, one of the officers, has read Emma and I trust her judgement so she added it to the list. Otoyomegatari I am currently reading and as of chapter 16, I am not seeing how it could be considered feminist, but I'll keep reading it and decide from there. Hopefully Emm or one of the others will pick it up too. I know Meta is also reading it but I'm not entirely sure what her viewpoint is on it in regards to it's feminist qualities. |
Amberleh said: I know Meta is also reading it but I'm not entirely sure what her viewpoint is on it in regards to it's feminist qualities. I pretty much agree with you, I have little to add to the topic. I don't consider it particularly feminist, but I also don't really think it should TRY to be because I feel it would have more chances of failing if the author tried to focus on such themes now. I simply consider it a very good manga with a historical setting and absolutely beautiful, detailed art. |
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| Hello everyone! Sorry to come into the discussion late, but I would like to open the discussion back up for Puella Magi Madoka Magica, if that's okay. I see it definitely as a feminist/girl positive/female empowering anime. I watched the series and the first two movies (which are just a rehash of the anime), but I did not see the latest movie. First of all, the people who must save the world are preteen girls. The media likes to demonize pre-teen girls by portraying them as shallow, vapid, and "b*tchy" - in this story, they are the strongest, and their strength is never questioned. Second, the story focuses around these 5 preteen girls, all with complex stories and pasts. Their femininity (such as Madoka's) is shown in a positive light - she can be girly, but she's still incredibly strong. There are also characters who have more masculine characteristics, but they are not ridiculed. All of them are very human and endure suffering. Also, all these characters share great bonds and friendships, but some are complex, which leads to my next point. Third, there is a lesbian main character. She is not eroticized, and her love for the other girl is very tasteful, but of course heartbreaking considering the series - the great thing is she has a happy end, instead of playing out the "I'm a lesbian character whose love is never returned" trope. Also, although her love is very important to the series, it does not necessarily define her character. The viewer literally sees her grow as a person - it's so great to see the different perspectives of young girls in this series. This last point contains spoilers for the whole series, so be warned: Also, it's not very significant, but Madoka's mom makes the comment that her makeup is like her armor/weapons, and she also works outside of the home, while her husband (appears to) work inside of the home, taking care of their son. It was a simple touch, but a nice gender role reversal nonetheless. I apologize for my long rant, but I hope you all consider what I said - Madoka is an awesome series, and I would hate for others to pass on it if they consider it not particularly empowering. |
| I would say that PMMM counts and feminist for the reasons you listed. I haven't seen it yet, but I have seen endless screen caps and gifs and I know a lot of feminist fans who really enjoy it. |
| Hi everyone. I'm new to MAL and really happy this club exists. How do people feel about Haibane Renmei? The story doesn't deal with gender, so I'd maybe hesitate to call it feminist, but I think it's very girl-positive nonetheless. There are a lot of girls in it, they aren't sexualized at all, and the plot focuses on their relationships with each other. The friendship between Rakka and Reki is particularly well-developed and powerful. It's also just a beautiful story that I would recommend to anyone, and one of my favorite anime ever. I'm watching Noir at the moment and think it might surprisingly qualify. The premise (two female assassins team up to...well, kill lots of dudes) is a little dubious but the show has so far deftly avoided male fantasy territory. Fanservice is basically absent. While there are lots of male side characters, all of the most significant roles in the series are filled by women and they are all formidably talented and often wield a lot of power in whatever criminal organization they belong to (although they do die a lot, this being a show about assassins). Once again there's an interesting and complex friendship dynamic between women as the focus, and an equally interesting mother/daughter sort of relationship that comes to the forefront later in the series. |
| Welcome =) I have seen both Noir and Haibane and while they are both good series (Haibane moreso than Noir), I do not think either one qualifies for our list. Neither of them are sexist by any means, but they also aren't girl-positive. In both it feels more like they are using girls because they wanted to draw girls, or they feel girls are more popular or maybe can portray the story they want to tell better. Neither one, however, empowers. When looking for stuff for the list I always first see how it compares to Utena and Oban, which are undoubtedly very in-your-face about their empowerment. I know not every anime can meet those standards, but I use that as a base and go from there. I also try to think about any transgendered or homosexual themes they may have, and how they are portrayed. Noir throws in random girl kissing for no reason at all- It isn't developed, t's just kinda there, leading me to believe it's fan service. Of course this alone doesn't disqualify it from being on our list, but in general it just isn't really empowering. Not sexist, but not empowering. If we had a list for "not empowering but safe" anime I'd throw them on there, but I don't want to create more work for myself and my admins. =) |
AmberlehJan 28, 2014 1:49 PM
| I don't think I've gotten far enough in Noir for the random kissing. Whoops. Probably should have finished it before giving my recommendation. And I was so happy about the lack of fanservice so far too... Do you think a show needs to confront gender roles head-on to be empowering? I would agree that neither show is anywhere near as feminist as Utena, because Utena is actually about subverting gender roles and is an explicitly feminist narrative. But I think a show can still be empowering without being about gender necessarily. That's why I thought Haibane Renmei and Noir might qualify. Noir was a bit iffy to begin with, but to be honest I'm still not sure I see why Haibane Renmei isn't girl-positive or empowering. In the end it's all about girls helping each other through their problems. I actually see a lot of parallels between what Utena does for Anthy to help her escape her coffin, and what Rakka does to help Reki escape her fate. |
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