Ok, I assume by now you guys will know about the whole Red Dragon vs White Dragon thing.
So we all know Ddraig's powers are basically Boost (which doubles his powers) and Transfer (which transfers them to someone/something) and Albion has the power to Divide and add that divided power to his own.
In that case how could Ddraig ever, EVER, beat Albion in a fight?
Look at it this way (the number representing the power):
Ddraig starting power: 1
Albion starting power: 1
Ddraig doubles his power: 2
Albion halves Ddraig's power and adds the half to himself: 2, Ddraig power: 1
Ddraig doubles: 2
Albion halves and adds to himself: 3, Ddraig's power: 1
etc etc.
I might be missing something, from either anime or Novel which explains this, but to me it seems Albion can simply sit there and siphon off Ddraig's power at leisure, adding it to his own whilst Ddraig is simply stuck at his base power because Albion keeps siphoning it away.
I can't see how transferring the boosted power would help either.
Looking at it from only that way, you are right. But, there are other things to take into consideration:
---In Issei's Balance Breaker and Juggernaut Drive, he doesn't really need a massive boost to his power, as being near-even with Vali allows him to deal out massive damage, and he also has the speed to dodge any boosted attacks from Vali. I don't know the exact details on his current specs compared to Vali's in Balance Break and Juggernaut Drive though, as I haven't read all of the latest LNs yet, so I only have partial info.
---Issei also carries Ascalon, so if he improves upon swordfighting, using Ascalon alone can be a serious threat to Vali, considering it is a dragon-slaying weapon.
As long as Issei can near-match Vali's power and dodge any boosted attacks, it wouldn't be that much of a mismatch for him. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Vali won't spam Divide, as to do that he opens himself up to a free attack from Issei, which would deal devastating damage and is not worth it when Issei can recover his lost power and has the speed to dodge MOST boosted attacks. He'll be careful with using Divide too much.
Gary29 said: Looking at it from only that way, you are right. But, there are other things to take into consideration:
---In Issei's Balance Breaker and Juggernaut Drive, he doesn't really need a massive boost to his power, as being near-even with Vali allows him to deal out massive damage, and he also has the speed to dodge any boosted attacks from Vali. I don't know the exact details on his current specs compared to Vali's in Balance Break and Juggernaut Drive though, as I haven't read all of the latest LNs yet, so I only have partial info.
---Issei also carries Ascalon, so if he improves upon swordfighting, using Ascalon alone can be a serious threat to Vali, considering it is a dragon-slaying weapon.
As long as Issei can near-match Vali's power and dodge any boosted attacks, it wouldn't be that much of a mismatch for him. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Vali won't spam Divide, as to do that he opens himself up to a free attack from Issei, which would deal devastating damage and is not worth it when Issei can recover his lost power and has the speed to dodge MOST boosted attacks. He'll be careful with using Divide too much.
Ahhhhhhhh forgive me but to counter your claim I need to reference something from further in the Light Novels which you may or may not have read
I'll put spoilers in anyway, just in case
I've already taken most of what you said into account. And Vali gains an ability named Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive, basically a non-life threatening version of Juggernaut Drive which comes with an ability name Half Dimension, halving anything that is even in the near vicinity of Vali.
Physically they are evenly matched (I think) but technically Vali is miles ahead.
Albion seems to have the perfect skillset to counter Ddraig, removing any possessors and what they can and can't do from the equation
Black--Swordsman said: I'll hold back what I'll say after the season finishes because some of the question and concerns here will be answered soon enough.
I was considering doing the same thing, but I thought why not post a reply anyway and just left out the part referencing what happens in the season's final episodes :P. The only part I referred to technically, was the matched physical power in Balance Breaker.
Manganese said:
Gary29 said: Looking at it from only that way, you are right. But, there are other things to take into consideration:
---In Issei's Balance Breaker and Juggernaut Drive, he doesn't really need a massive boost to his power, as being near-even with Vali allows him to deal out massive damage, and he also has the speed to dodge any boosted attacks from Vali. I don't know the exact details on his current specs compared to Vali's in Balance Break and Juggernaut Drive though, as I haven't read all of the latest LNs yet, so I only have partial info.
---Issei also carries Ascalon, so if he improves upon swordfighting, using Ascalon alone can be a serious threat to Vali, considering it is a dragon-slaying weapon.
As long as Issei can near-match Vali's power and dodge any boosted attacks, it wouldn't be that much of a mismatch for him. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Vali won't spam Divide, as to do that he opens himself up to a free attack from Issei, which would deal devastating damage and is not worth it when Issei can recover his lost power and has the speed to dodge MOST boosted attacks. He'll be careful with using Divide too much.
Ahhhhhhhh forgive me but to counter your claim I need to reference something from further in the Light Novels which you may or may not have read
I'll put spoilers in anyway, just in case
I've already taken most of what you said into account. And Vali gains an ability named Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive, basically a non-life threatening version of Juggernaut Drive which comes with an ability name Half Dimension, halving anything that is even in the near vicinity of Vali.
Physically they are evenly matched (I think) but technically Vali is miles ahead.
Albion seems to have the perfect skillset to counter Ddraig, removing any possessors and what they can and can't do from the equation
Yeah I did read about that part, but I forgot to mention it because I didn't remember the specifics about it.
If Issei (I'm not sure if he has already) gets rid of Ddraig's curse, he too has a safe version of Juggernaut Drive to use, but I think Vali's is slightly more powerful and has extra features, like Half Dimension.
It's somewhat difficult to draw a complete conclusion here, as all of Issei's power-ups and all of Vali's power-ups are not yet seen as the series is nowhere near finished yet. But a big part of this discussion will be displayed in the end of this season.
Black--Swordsman said: I'll hold back what I'll say after the season finishes because some of the question and concerns here will be answered soon enough.
I was considering doing the same thing, but I thought why not post a reply anyway and just left out the part referencing what happens in the season's final episodes :P. The only part I referred to technically, was the matched physical power in Balance Breaker.
Manganese said:
Gary29 said: Looking at it from only that way, you are right. But, there are other things to take into consideration:
---In Issei's Balance Breaker and Juggernaut Drive, he doesn't really need a massive boost to his power, as being near-even with Vali allows him to deal out massive damage, and he also has the speed to dodge any boosted attacks from Vali. I don't know the exact details on his current specs compared to Vali's in Balance Break and Juggernaut Drive though, as I haven't read all of the latest LNs yet, so I only have partial info.
---Issei also carries Ascalon, so if he improves upon swordfighting, using Ascalon alone can be a serious threat to Vali, considering it is a dragon-slaying weapon.
As long as Issei can near-match Vali's power and dodge any boosted attacks, it wouldn't be that much of a mismatch for him. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Vali won't spam Divide, as to do that he opens himself up to a free attack from Issei, which would deal devastating damage and is not worth it when Issei can recover his lost power and has the speed to dodge MOST boosted attacks. He'll be careful with using Divide too much.
Ahhhhhhhh forgive me but to counter your claim I need to reference something from further in the Light Novels which you may or may not have read
I'll put spoilers in anyway, just in case
I've already taken most of what you said into account. And Vali gains an ability named Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive, basically a non-life threatening version of Juggernaut Drive which comes with an ability name Half Dimension, halving anything that is even in the near vicinity of Vali.
Physically they are evenly matched (I think) but technically Vali is miles ahead.
Albion seems to have the perfect skillset to counter Ddraig, removing any possessors and what they can and can't do from the equation
Yeah I did read about that part, but I forgot to mention it because I didn't remember the specifics about it.
If Issei (I'm not sure if he has already) gets rid of Ddraig's curse, he too has a safe version of Juggernaut Drive to use, but I think Vali's is slightly more powerful and has extra features, like Half Dimension.
It's somewhat difficult to draw a complete conclusion here, as all of Issei's power-ups and all of Vali's power-ups are not yet seen as the series is nowhere near finished yet. But a big part of this discussion will be displayed in the end of this season.
I believe I know what incident you're referring to. Maybe it'll make more sense when I see it cuz it doesn't make any sense to me when I'm reading it.
If it makes sense, hooray
If it doesn't I'm just going to go with the 'It's Japan, fuck logic' explanation
Note that vali has been actively training to use divine dividing for who knows how many years under azazel, while in less than one year, ise got both balance breaker and crimson armor, that fact should point that ise is more talented than the author of the LN gives ise credit for
For one there's a limit to how much power vali can divide and absorb, once he hits his limit, his stamina will be drained and his sacred gear will stop functioning temporarily.
Also factor in that in juggernaut drive fom, ise has a time stop ability similar to gasper as shown in vol 6, ise also has ascalon, which no matter how strong vali gets will always deal critical damage to him as vali is both a dragon and devil as well as dividing power of his own that he will steal from vali
Draig also did state in vol 10 I think that the gift ability can also be used on non living things like summoned shikigami, thus in theory gift can counter vali's half dimension
Also as of vol 12, ise is the direct descendant of great red, the ultimate being and title character of highschool dxd, once he masters his new body, he would be far stronger than vali as great red >>>>>> lucifer
And never forget oppai power >>>>>> everything in dxd ;D
Never settle with words what you can accomplish with a flame thrower.
Manganese said: Ok, I assume by now you guys will know about the whole Red Dragon vs White Dragon thing.
So we all know Ddraig's powers are basically Boost (which doubles his powers) and Transfer (which transfers them to someone/something) and Albion has the power to Divide and add that divided power to his own.
In that case how could Ddraig ever, EVER, beat Albion in a fight?
Look at it this way (the number representing the power):
Ddraig starting power: 1
Albion starting power: 1
Ddraig doubles his power: 2
Albion halves Ddraig's power and adds the half to himself: 2, Ddraig power: 1
Ddraig doubles: 2
Albion halves and adds to himself: 3, Ddraig's power: 1
etc etc.
I might be missing something, from either anime or Novel which explains this, but to me it seems Albion can simply sit there and siphon off Ddraig's power at leisure, adding it to his own whilst Ddraig is simply stuck at his base power because Albion keeps siphoning it away.
I can't see how transferring the boosted power would help either.
o_O It just seems like such a mismatch.
Albion is like a battery overcharge it with power faster than he can release it then kaboom
See it is not that simple.
1)You see Albion stated to divide the power he needs to touch the opponent.And if ddraig is already in boost state he can just dodge the attacks and finish Albion with physical attack after tiring him.
2) Leaving this if we look at the episodes we see that Albion has a limit to which he can store power and he has to shed excess power before doing anything else or he'll end up hurting himself.And as we see Ddraig has limit of boost till he can endure the power which I see is very high so even if Albion halves his power it'll only reduce the restrain on his body and he can easily boost the power reduced using boost.
3)It is also stated on fandom site that Ddraig's physical power was overpowers only by Ophis and Dd and no one else.
4)In certain cases there are chances that Albion can win such as mentioned above but at end it's all upto the writers.
Manganese said: Ok, I assume by now you guys will know about the whole Red Dragon vs White Dragon thing.
So we all know Ddraig's powers are basically Boost (which doubles his powers) and Transfer (which transfers them to someone/something) and Albion has the power to Divide and add that divided power to his own.
In that case how could Ddraig ever, EVER, beat Albion in a fight?
Look at it this way (the number representing the power):
Ddraig starting power: 1
Albion starting power: 1
Ddraig doubles his power: 2
Albion halves Ddraig's power and adds the half to himself: 2, Ddraig power: 1
Ddraig doubles: 2
Albion halves and adds to himself: 3, Ddraig's power: 1
etc etc.
I might be missing something, from either anime or Novel which explains this, but to me it seems Albion can simply sit there and siphon off Ddraig's power at leisure, adding it to his own whilst Ddraig is simply stuck at his base power because Albion keeps siphoning it away.
I can't see how transferring the boosted power would help either.
o_O It just seems like such a mismatch.
Albion is like a battery overcharge it with power faster than he can release it then kaboom
Albion has certain limits to which he can take power or even excess sheding also end up hurting him.