| Exactly what it says in the title. I think that, when most people first start reading BL, their standards are fairly low because they're new to the genre and don't have any set expectations. So, they start reading at random and enjoy whatever they find. But as they delve deeper into BL, they read real gems, and they develop tastes. They have favorite mangaka (Yoneda, anyone?), favorite manga, and even favorite themes. Then one day, they think to themselves, "Hey, I haven't read X in a long time, I bet it's going to be fun to try it again." But it's not. In fact, it downright sucks. You're left wondering, "What happened? This used to be so wonderful, so touching, so...Not bad." Your whole life as a fujsohi (or mild fan, at least), you've been fangirling over this manga in forums, blogs, and Tumblr. Yet...It's an abomination. This has happened to me once. Not as extreme as mentioned above, but I used to like SH a lot, and now that I've rewatched it, it's not as good as I recall it being. I don't think it's an abomination (not after what I've read), but I can see flaws that I didn't recognize the first time around. |
| My first BL mangas were: 1.Koisuru Boukun 2.Sekai ichi hatsukoi 3.Doushitemo Furetakunai I loved them all. When I ran out of good mangas came the time for rereading. Koisuru was still good, hot and funny and Doushitemo Furetakunai was even better than the first time I read it ( i found alot of things I missed the first time around). BUT Sekai Ichi Hatsukoi was kinda sucked. Extreme tsundere behavior, pseudorapes...I realised that was not very smart writing and deffinetely not what i'm looking for in yaoi. |
ThePoliyoyo said: My first BL mangas were: 1.Koisuru Boukun 2.Sekai ichi hatsukoi 3.Doushitemo Furetakunai I loved them all. When I ran out of good mangas came the time for rereading. Koisuru was still good, hot and funny and Doushitemo Furetakunai was even better than the first time I read it ( i found alot of things I missed the first time around). BUT Sekai Ichi Hatsukoi was kinda sucked. Extreme tsundere behavior, pseudorapes...I realised that was not very smart writing and deffinetely not what i'm looking for in yaoi. I saw the OVAs for Koisuru and wasn't impressed. Is the manga better? People love it so much, so the manga would have to be good, right? I'm starting to read SH now, for Yukina and Kisa. I really liked that couple in the anime, although I wish Kisa was as chipper internally as he is at work. |
Alynitca said: Exactly what it says in the title. I think that, when most people first start reading BL, their standards are fairly low because they're new to the genre and don't have any set expectations. So, they start reading at random and enjoy whatever they find. But as they delve deeper into BL, they read real gems, and they develop tastes. They have favorite mangaka (Yoneda, anyone?), favorite manga, and even favorite themes. Then one day, they think to themselves, "Hey, I haven't read X in a long time, I bet it's going to be fun to try it again." You hit the nail on the head xD I now know who I love to read and can't stand average BL anymore, going through my list awhile back I re-read some of the stories I rated a 6/7 (cause a six is still pretty ok) and thought 'what the hell!? this is a 5 or even a 4' xD hahaha funny how taste changes! I still actually have to change a lot in my list but am too lazy, so you might see me rate something a 5 now but something just as mundain is rated a 6 or 7 in my list, it's because I'm too lazy to sort through it right now >_>" mehehehe I know you asked for mangaka but I can't remeber names right now :/ only my favs xD *thinking* Alynitca said: I saw the OVAs for Koisuru and wasn't impressed. Is the manga better? People love it so much, so the manga would have to be good, right? I'm starting to read SH now, for Yukina and Kisa. I really liked that couple in the anime, although I wish Kisa was as chipper internally as he is at work. The manga is muuuuch better than the ova, but unlike everyone else (though I do love it!) Koisuru Boukun isn't my fav by Takanaga Hinako :p I actually enjoyed Bukiyou na Silent more, which is unusual for me cause it's a fluffly BL x3 lol but I would still recommend you give both a try~! SH is a lot of fun! :D I remember I had to adjust to the art-style :p |
OtakuMadnessAug 28, 2012 4:22 PM
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| My very first BL was junjou romantica, and I'm not gonna deny that I used to love it! but the only reason that I haven't dropped it and might enjoy it sometimes is becuz it's... em... kinda nostalgic for me. I think it's highly overrated. and my favorite mangakas were Nakamura Shungiku, Takanaga Hinako, Ayano Yamane and Sakuragi Yaya. but not anymore! they aren't even close to my favoraits now... My favorite BL mangakas right now are Yoneda Kou, Yamashita Tomoko and Natsume Isaku. Alynitca said: I think that, when most people first start reading BL, their standards are fairly low because they're new to the genre and don't have any set expectations. So, they start reading at random and enjoy whatever they find. It is truly as you said. c: Alynitca said: I saw the OVAs for Koisuru and wasn't impressed. Is the manga better? People love it so much, so the manga would have to be good, right? I was disappointed by the OVAs and wouldn't recommend them to anyone, but I'd say the manga is worth reading once. |
| Existence |
Alynitca said: I saw the OVAs for Koisuru and wasn't impressed. Is the manga better? People love it so much, so the manga would have to be good, right? Give it a try, you'll never know otherwise. The manga is alot better than the OVA. Making yaoi recommendations is very hard because it depends on the reader's kinnks. I for one didn't quite enjoy series like Totally Captivared or Viewfinder while everybody else seemes to be crazy about them. |
ThePoliyoyo said: Give it a try, you'll never know otherwise. The manga is alot better than the OVA. Making yaoi recommendations is very hard because it depends on the reader's kinnks. I for one didn't quite enjoy series like Totally Captivared or Viewfinder while everybody else seemes to be crazy about them. It's very true, everyone's taste is different, at-least we all have Yoneda in common xD Ah! I agree!~! but strangely enough I enjoyed Totally Captivated but it was awhiiiiiiiiile ago since I read it! xD As for Finder I didn't get the appeal, I'm not into the whole rape is possession/power or love in yaoi >_>" |
OtakuMadnessAug 29, 2012 9:29 AM
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| Ugh, I just wrote a huge reply to everyone and it erased itself. OtakuMadness said: The manga is muuuuch better than the ova, but unlike everyone else (though I do love it!) Koisuru Boukun isn't my fav by Takanaga Hinako :p I actually enjoyed Bukiyou na Silent more, which is unusual for me cause it's a fluffly BL x3 lol but I would still recommend you give both a try~! What I disliked about the OVAs was the homophobic uke and his nasty, irritating personality. Along with that, the seme was weak and had no dignity. I won't criticize the sex, though, because I know how drastically the sex is changed when a yaoi is being animated. OtakuMadness said: SH is a lot of fun! :D I remember I had to adjust to the art-style :p Yeah, I don't watch SH for the quality or the romance, but the humorous character interactions. MatsuChan said: My very first BL was junjou romantica, and I'm not gonna deny that I used to love it! but the only reason that I haven't dropped it and might enjoy it sometimes is becuz it's... em... kinda nostalgic for me. I think it's highly overrated. Same here. JR basically embodies everything I hate in yaoi, and yet, I smile when watching it. It's nostalgic, like watching Spongebob. The jokes are stupid and probably no longer match your sense of humor, but you laugh anyway. ThePoliyoyo said: Give it a try, you'll never know otherwise. The manga is alot better than the OVA. So everyone keeps saying. ThePoliyoyo said: Making yaoi recommendations is very hard because it depends on the reader's kinnks. I for one didn't quite enjoy series like Totally Captivared or Viewfinder while everybody else seemes to be crazy about them. Totally Captivated was one of my first yaoi manga, so my opinion of it is probably outdated, but I enjoyed it for the most part. Barring a few things here and there. As for Viewfinder...Ugh, anything by Ayano is crap, in my opinion. OtakuMadness said: As for Finder I didn't get the appeal, I'm not into the whole rape is possession/power or love in yaoi >_>" Agreed. I dislike rape a lot. Not only is it immoral, but it's also portrayed rather unrealistically in yaoi. Plus, I don't find it sexy. P.S. I love your new avatar. Able wins. Oh, oh, speaking of Starfighter, I dislike how everyone claims that Cain raped Able in chapter one. Able never protested. He was nervous at first, and didn't formally say "yes", but he was clearly enjoying it, he made no struggle, he consented pretty clearly when he said "you're still an ass, Cain," and he helped take his clothes off. What part of that seems forced? |
Alynitca said: Ugh, I just wrote a huge reply to everyone and it erased itself. Always CTRL+A, CTRL+C before posting, Mal is acting like a pms-ing bitch these days :d Alynitca said: What I disliked about the OVAs was the homophobic uke and his nasty, irritating personality. Along with that, the seme was weak and had no dignity. I won't criticize the sex, though, because I know how drastically the sex is changed when a yaoi is being animated. The ova represents only a few chapters from the actual manga. Well, the thing i liked best about this manga was the uke's character development: his journey from a total homophobe to wanting IT so baaaaaad and getting frustrated when he's not getting any. He'll grow on you. The seme isn't that bad either. I mean he's a pushover but he's also somewhat devious and i think his personality compliments the uke's personality. They are a match made in hell. :d |
ThePoliyoyo said: Always CTRL+A, CTRL+C before posting, Mal is acting like a pms-ing bitch these days :d I usually do, but I wasn't thinking. ThePoliyoyo said: The ova represents only a few chapters from the actual manga. Well, the thing i liked best about this manga was the uke's character development: his journey from a total homophobe to wanting IT so baaaaaad and getting frustrated when he's not getting any. He'll grow on you. The seme isn't that bad either. I mean he's a pushover but he's also somewhat devious and i think his personality compliments the uke's personality. They are a match made in hell. :d I suppose character development would work... I just wanted to bash him over the head the entire time watching. Oh, yes, he's definitely manipulative. He took advantage of the uke's intoxicated horniness. Match made in hell would sum them up nicely. They're complete opposites. |
| The Koisuru Boukun manga is really better than the OVA. I'm just rereading it after reading Challengers, and it's even better than I remember. (Also, I like that Morinaga started to pursue his senpai because he liked his ass. Usually the explanation is "I saw him standing beneath the cherry blossoms and he looked so lonely, I fell in love at once", here it is "I him standing beneath the cherry blossoms and I seriously liked his cock and ass." That chapter is in Challengers, though.) And I agree on the character development, it's pretty well done, I find myself really feeling for Morinaga with each tiny step Souichi takes. It's a bit exasperating sometimes, but kind of satisfying too, and overall I like it. It's ages since I've seen the OVA, but I remember thinking that Souichi was really, really unbearably tsundere and flat. It put me off from reading the manga at first. About taking advantage of his intoxicated horniness, I just reread that chapter yesterday, and I was surprised how understanding I was towards Morinaga. I actually sympathized with him - how he just loses it in this situation after 4 years of being in love and restraining himself, and becomes all hazy-eyed and desperate. The scene is actually pretty sensual, and it's more of a gentle seduction and much more ambivalent than the usual non-con we all know and probably hate. About SH and JR, I started reading BL after watching the series, and I didn't know anything about yaoi clichés - I guess I wouldn't be able to really enjoy it now ~.~ |
CrackityJones said: The Koisuru Boukun manga is really better than the OVA. I'm just rereading it after reading Challengers, and it's even better than I remember. (Also, I like that Morinaga started to pursue his senpai because he liked his ass. Usually the explanation is "I saw him standing beneath the cherry blossoms and he looked so lonely, I fell in love at once", here it is "I him standing beneath the cherry blossoms and I seriously liked his cock and ass." That chapter is in Challengers, though.) Lmfao XD That is completely true. It always seems to be love-at-first-sight in yaoi. You never really see the guy falling for his senpai because his ass makes the angels sing. CrackityJones said: And I agree on the character development, it's pretty well done, I find myself really feeling for Morinaga with each tiny step Souichi takes. It's a bit exasperating sometimes, but kind of satisfying too, and overall I like it. It's ages since I've seen the OVA, but I remember thinking that Souichi was really, really unbearably tsundere and flat. It put me off from reading the manga at first. Maybe I'll read it today. CrackityJones said: About taking advantage of his intoxicated horniness, I just reread that chapter yesterday, and I was surprised how understanding I was towards Morinaga. I actually sympathized with him - how he just loses it in this situation after 4 years of being in love and restraining himself, and becomes all hazy-eyed and desperate. The scene is actually pretty sensual, and it's more of a gentle seduction and much more ambivalent than the usual non-con we all know and probably hate. It looked like typical noncon in the OVA, so I am glad to hear it's different in the manga. I sympathized (or rather, empathized) with Morinaga somewhat in the second OVA, when he leaves Souichi. I've been in relationships with people before where I don't feel appreciated. I think that Morinaga could of held out longer and made Souichi reflect more. Still, snapping and raping Souichi did not earn any sympathy from me. CrackityJones said: About SH and JR, I started reading BL after watching the series, and I didn't know anything about yaoi clichés - I guess I wouldn't be able to really enjoy it now ~.~ Yeah, probably not. It's cute and funny, I like how it focuses slightly on work, but the romance aspect leaves much to be desired. |
Alynitca said: It looked like typical noncon in the OVA, so I am glad to hear it's different in the manga. Ah, it's still noncon in the end, though! -_-; Hope I didn't raise your expectations too much... Morinaga goes too far in the end (I thought "dammit!"), and to me there was a point where it clearly went from a muddled noncon/seduction mixture to outright rape. But it's still better than most yaoi noncon, which usually consists of a stone-faced seme mumbling "ooh, you like iiiit, admit it" and a helpless uke going "noo, ahnn ahnn" and serves no other point than to fulfill the rape fantasy quota. Here, I thought it actually helped to advance the plot and it fit the characters and their situation (Morinaga IS somewhat selfish and manipulative, Souichi would rather die than admit that he's sexually attracted to Morinag), and the fact that Souichi is prepared to forgive him is not the uke being airheaded but an indicator for how much Morinaga means to him (and also how much ambivalence was in that "rape". It's hard to explain without sounding like a rape apologist! But I guess we have to distinguish between real rape and yaoi fantasy world anyway). Alynitca said: Yeah, probably not. It's cute and funny, I like how it focuses slightly on work, but the romance aspect leaves much to be desired. Yes, absolutely. The romance seems just to exist because it's yaoi, somehow the pairings don't work at all (except maybe for the 30-year old and his bookstore guy). I finished the second season of SH a couple of days ago (noticed that I stopped at ep 7, heh) and I wondered what I ever liked about it. All that blushing and schoolgirling, and the over-perfect semes who just love their blundering ukes unconditionally! I didn't get it at all why Takano is in love with Ritsu - I mean, of course you don't need a reason to fall in love, but there are plenty of reasons to fall out of love, and it was puzzling why Takano should keep going. |
CrackityJones said: ...there was a point where it clearly went from a muddled noncon/seduction mixture to outright rape. Were they sober? CrackityJones said: But it's still better than most yaoi noncon, which usually consists of a stone-faced seme mumbling "ooh, you like iiiit, admit it" and a helpless uke going "noo, ahnn ahnn" and serves no other point than to fulfill the rape fantasy quota. Not stone-faced; they smirk. CrackityJones said: Here, I thought it actually helped to advance the plot and it fit the characters and their situation... O_O CrackityJones said: It's hard to explain without sounding like a rape apologist! But I guess we have to distinguish between real rape and yaoi fantasy world anyway. Eek, yeah, you do sound like a rape apologist. But rape is so casual in yaoi, that it does kind of lose its impact. Yaoi rape isn't really rape. Besides, there is a huge difference between rape and rape fantasy. CrackityJones said: Yes, absolutely. The romance seems just to exist because it's yaoi, somehow the pairings don't work at all (except maybe for the 30-year old and his bookstore guy). I finished the second season of SH a couple of days ago (noticed that I stopped at ep 7, heh) and I wondered what I ever liked about it. All that blushing and schoolgirling, and the over-perfect semes who just love their blundering ukes unconditionally! I didn't get it at all why Takano is in love with Ritsu - I mean, of course you don't need a reason to fall in love, but there are plenty of reasons to fall out of love, and it was puzzling why Takano should keep going. Yeah, the entire time I was watching the anime, I couldn't help but wonder what Ritsu's redeeming traits are. Takano mentions that he likes how Ritsu always keeps his promises, but that's hardly enough to build love on. I think the main couple could've been adorable (even with the irritatingly excessive blushing), if the mangaka had bothered to give Ritsu a personality beyond bitchy. The love triangle couple didn't sit with me well: 1) Everybody says there was rape, although I can't remember it. 2) It was unbelievably boring. 3) The whole idea of going seven years with both people loving each other, but not knowing the feelings were mutual, is unrealistic. 4) I hated the uke, found the seme boring, and actually liked the love rival. I liked Kisa/Yukina. I just wish that Kisa had been given more swag, seeing as he was promiscuous, so he should be quite experienced and relaxed in the field of love and sex. The whole "perfect seme/blundering uke" occurred in JR, too. |
Alynitca said: Were they sober? More or less, of course there was that ridiculously effective aphrodisiac... Alynitca said: Not stone-faced; they smirk. Urgh, you're right, some do. Some keep the manly man unmovable face. Alynitca said: Eek, yeah, you do sound like a rape apologist. But rape is so casual in yaoi, that it does kind of lose its impact. Yaoi rape isn't really rape. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to! ;_; I guess it's impossible to explain why one yaoi rape is a better rape than others. What I mean is: in the context of yaoi, this plot device is set to better use than in other mangas. It's still trivialized, it's still used as a means to get some smex in and advance the relationship to a sexual level, and it still hasn't anything to do with reality; but at least it does make some sense in the context of the story. I don't know how to put it better, but I don't want to start defending myself either as it should be obvious that what I say about a fictional rape in a genre that's full of non-con and dub-con doesn't have anything to do with real life. Of course yaoi rape isn't real rape, real rape is blood and torn tissue and trauma, and it has nothing to do with love or desire. In yaoi, the reason is always that the seme "couldn't control himself", and the uke just pulls up his pants and says "I won't be defeated by such a small thing!". I have this theory that it has something to do with the Japanese ideal of female purity and the idea that a man has to literally conquer her and break down her defenses - you know, girls don't have sexual desires, and they have to be tainted before they can even enjoy sex? Quite often this form of fantasy rape is used to a) introduce sex to a relationship, because if she gave in willingly, she'd be more or less a slut; and b) show the uncontrollable love and desire the hero has for the heroine. Both is of course bullshit, but that seems to be how it is. And look at tentacle porn, it takes this idea to the extreme and also sheds an interesting light on male self-perception (ugly desires and filthy body parts that mindlessly destroy something pure). Anyway, I don't really believe that any yaoi reader who gets used to yaoi rape becomes desensitized towards real rape. If someone you know got raped, the thought "aww, he just wanted you so much" definitely wouldn't cross your mind. I still dislike rape in yaoi, and I still wonder why female mangakas of all people would insist on using that device so constantly (is it the editors? why?), but it doesn't mean they and the readers who like rape fantasies have bad taste or don't take rape seriously. Yaoi rape seems to be a mix between rape fantasy, an indicator for the fictional seme's smexiness and desire, and maybe also a means to deal with the subconscious fear of sexual assault women live with every day. It's fiction, and fantasy, and yaoi especially is supposed to be a safe environment for female readers to enjoy all kinds of smut without any regards to a supposed female "modesty" (you know, the flowers, blurred embraces and fade-outs of shoujo smut. It's no wonder yaoi has graphic close-ups and is full of body fluids). Whatever rocks your boat, I guess. Alynitca said: I think the main couple could've been adorable (even with the irritatingly excessive blushing), if the mangaka had bothered to give Ritsu a personality beyond bitchy. Very true. It would also have helped to give them a conflict beyond a silly misunderstanding and subsequent separation. The uke's refusal to accept his own feelings and believe in Takano wasn't convincing, and the repetitive "I love him", "nooooo I hate you" circle got old very quickly. Alynitca said: The love triangle couple didn't sit with me well: 1) Everybody says there was rape, although I can't remember it. 2) It was unbelievably boring. 3) The whole idea of going seven years with both people loving each other, but not knowing the feelings were mutual, is unrealistic. 4) I hated the uke, found the seme boring, and actually liked the love rival. Oh boy, did I dislike that uke. Self-centered, unthinking and spoiled. The seme was just his servant. And the love rival was hot, but again, there was absolutely no reason for either of them to be in love with him. Alynitca said: I liked Kisa/Yukina. I just wish that Kisa had been given more swag, seeing as he was promiscuous, so he should be quite experienced and relaxed in the field of love and sex. See my theory above! It always works! :P And I guess creating a manly, confident uke would totally break her concept. Where would the conflict come from if the uke wasn't self-doubting? Alynitca said: The whole "perfect seme/blundering uke" occurred in JR, too. I vaguely remember that. But I think the Usagi/Misaki thing started with sexual assault, too. I was unaware of yaoi standards then and thought "he can't do that!" Good times, good times. |
CrackityJones said: More or less, of course there was that ridiculously effective aphrodisiac... Effective, indeed. CrackityJones said: Urgh, you're right, some do. Some keep the manly man unmovable face. Real Men Don't Wear Poker Faces; They Are Poker Faces. Real Men Have No Emotions Real Men Don't Feel Pleasure Real Men Have The Expressional Flexibility Of A Rock CrackityJones said: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to! ;_; I guess it's impossible to explain why one yaoi rape is a better rape than others. What I mean is: in the context of yaoi, this plot device is set to better use than in other mangas. It's still trivialized, it's still used as a means to get some smex in and advance the relationship to a sexual level, and it still hasn't anything to do with reality; but at least it does make some sense in the context of the story. I know what you mean. I read yaoi, too. There is superior rape... CrackityJones said: I don't know how to put it better, but I don't want to start defending myself either as it should be obvious that what I say about a fictional rape in a genre that's full of non-con and dub-con doesn't have anything to do with real life. Of course yaoi rape isn't real rape, real rape is blood and torn tissue and trauma, and it has nothing to do with love or desire. In yaoi, the reason is always that the seme "couldn't control himself", and the uke just pulls up his pants and says "I won't be defeated by such a small thing!".  CrackityJones said: I have this theory  CrackityJones said: that it has something to do with the Japanese ideal of female purity and the idea that a man has to literally conquer her and break down her defenses - you know, girls don't have sexual desires, and they have to be tainted before they can even enjoy sex? I agree. I never thought about that, but it fits perfectly. Men seem to have this stupid fantasy or stereotype stuck in their head that women are asexual, and many women pretend to fit this lie by protesting against any kind of PDA or perverted joke cracked. Yes, there are people who are bothered by those things, but many women pretend to be, simply to come off as pure and sweet. The whole "men must conquer" thing is sick. CrackityJones said: Quite often this form of fantasy rape is used to a) introduce sex to a relationship, because if she gave in willingly, she'd be more or less a slut; Which shows both the double standard and the judgement passed onto women for the most stupid things. CrackityJones said: ...and b) show the uncontrollable love and desire the hero has for the heroine. Both is of course bullshit, but that seems to be how it is. And look at tentacle porn, it takes this idea to the extreme and also sheds an interesting light on male self-perception (ugly desires and filthy body parts that mindlessly destroy something pure). Damn. Society sure does like to make men omnipotent evil-doers and women weak Virgin Mary's. CrackityJones said: Anyway, I don't really believe that any yaoi reader who gets used to yaoi rape becomes desensitized towards real rape. Of course not. The two couldn't be more unalike. CrackityJones said: If someone you know got raped, the thought "aww, he just wanted you so much" definitely wouldn't cross your mind. I'd have to send a person who thought real-life rape was cute to an asylum. CrackityJones said: I still dislike rape in yaoi, and I still wonder why female mangakas of all people would insist on using that device so constantly (is it the editors? why?) I think women just like the fantasy of being conquered, and that yaoi makes them feel less guilty about it, because it doesn't involve female characters. CrackityJones said: and maybe also a means to deal with the subconscious fear of sexual assault women live with every day. I don't think so. Not many women live in fear of being sexually assaulted every day. CrackityJones said: It's fiction, and fantasy, and yaoi especially is supposed to be a safe environment for female readers to enjoy all kinds of smut without any regards to a supposed female "modesty" (you know, the flowers, blurred embraces and fade-outs of shoujo smut. It's no wonder yaoi has graphic close-ups and is full of body fluids). Whatever rocks your boat, I guess. I like yaoi because shoujo is more likely to have weak heroines than yaoi is to have weak heroes. Also because the sex is hot and graphic. CrackityJones said: Very true. It would also have helped to give them a conflict beyond a silly misunderstanding and subsequent separation. The uke's refusal to accept his own feelings and believe in Takano wasn't convincing, and the repetitive "I love him", "nooooo I hate you" circle got old very quickly. Yeah, it really did. It was the same plot each episode; Takano tells Ritsu he loves him. Ritsu refuses to admit his feelings because "even if it was a misunderstanding, I was still destroyed!" CrackityJones said: Oh boy, did I dislike that uke. Self-centered, unthinking and spoiled. The seme was just his servant. And the love rival was hot, but again, there was absolutely no reason for either of them to be in love with him. Exactly. The seme are the only ones who have redeeming qualities. Takano - Hard-working - Passionate - Understanding - Helpful Onodera - Apparently honest (by word of God) - Apparently smart (by word of God) - Determined (you can see it, but still not enough) Tori - Helpful - Loyal - Selfless - Caring - Dependent His uke whose name fails me - Lol, NOTHING Yukina - Cheerful - Loyal - Goddamn gorgeous - Creative - Talented - Endearing - Sexy as all hell - Tolerant - Only seme who does not rape his poor uke Kisa - Realistic, perhaps? His insecurity around Takano and feelings of "where is my life heading" are better than Tori's uke's "waaaah, I have responsibilities what is this" - Enjoys the sex CrackityJones said: See my theory above! It always works! :P But he is a slut! Might as well show how skilled he is after all that sluttery! CrackityJones said: And I guess creating a manly, confident uke would totally break her concept. Where would the conflict come from if the uke wasn't self-doubting? Her brain would totally have a meltdown if she ever found out that not all men who prefer to bottom don't have a sense of self-worth. Besides, it's not as if women or uke characters have any issues beyond insecurity, right? CrackityJones said: I vaguely remember that. But I think the Usagi/Misaki thing started with sexual assault, too. Sexual assault? Yup. Within the first five minutes, Misaki was raped. CrackityJones said: I was unaware of yaoi standards then and thought "he can't do that!" Good times, good times. Hahahahaha.... Ah, our naivety.... Sorry for responding late once again; I keep forgetting to check this club's forums. But I like this conversation. I really do. |
Cpl_BallerinaOct 7, 2012 11:25 AM
Alynitca said: CrackityJones said: I have this theory Hah! That made me laugh. Alynitca said: Damn. Society sure does like to make men omnipotent evil-doers and women weak Virgin Mary's. That, or the seductress whose viles men are helpless against, and who makes those poor helpless men do nasty things they would never have done if it wasn't for the woman. It's been like that since forever, just look at how religions and churches decided to blame women for the eviction from paradise and the fall from grace, and made women cover up to make sure nothing happens. Alynitca said: I don't think so. Not many women live in fear of being sexually assaulted every day. Oh, not an acute sense of being in danger, just the awareness of the possibility. I said "the subconscious fear women live with", not "women living in fear"; that's a different meaning. It's in the way women adapt their behaviour, especially after nightfall - taking another, better lit way home than usual; thinking twice about who to let in when you live alone; positioning yourself closer to the old lady and the nice-looking business man at the bus stop than to that group of guys who're busy trying to impress each other; or even walking slower than a suspicious looking guy so he won't ogle your ass. Of course men do some of these things, too, but they usually do them for different reasons. Men don't go to certain areas at night so they won't get mugged, women's priority is not getting raped. It goes so far that, if a woman gets mugged, she's likely to think "well, at least I wasn't raped". Alynitca said: I like yaoi because shoujo is more likely to have weak heroines than yaoi is to have weak heroes. Also because the sex is hot and graphic. Yes. Also, TWO hot men to drool over. Alynitca said: Yeah, it really did. It was the same plot each episode; Takano tells Ritsu he loves him. Ritsu refuses to admit his feelings because "even if it was a misunderstanding, I was still destroyed!" Yeah. And not only did he completely overreact as a teen, he didn't mature at all. His reaction is still the same. Run, run, run, little Ritsu... Alynitca said: Onodera - Apparently honest (by word of God) - Apparently smart (by word of God) - Determined (you can see it, but still not enough) Hah, nice! Yeah, that's the problem, apart from his weepy self-pity he isn't characterized at all. It's not enough to have people say he's this or that when all we see is childish crying and tsundere-ing. Alynitca said: His uke whose name fails me - Lol, NOTHING Hahaha! And I can't remember the name either. Still get this gnawing anger when I think about him. Alynitca said: Kisa - Realistic, perhaps? His insecurity around Takano and feelings of "where is my life heading" are better than Tori's uke's "waaaah, I have responsibilities what is this" - Enjoys the sex Sigh, it's a shame that he's forced to be just another whiny uke. He could have been interesting, and I still like this pairing the best. CrackityJones said: But he is a slut! Might as well show how skilled he is after all that sluttery! Yes! But then we'd lose all respect for him! He has to be pure in spite of all his sluttery. Where would we be if slutty people were allowed to find love? I really wish she'd gone all out with this character. The idealism makes me sad. Alynitca said: Her brain would totally have a meltdown if she ever found out that not all men who prefer to bottom don't have a sense of self-worth. Besides, it's not as if women or uke characters have any issues beyond insecurity, right? Yup. And the only solution to insecurity problems is to be liked by your one and only seme. I finished the anime recently and saw the episode in which Takano refuses Yokozawa, and against all hope and better knowledge I was totally rooting for Yokozawa. If Takana had said "ah what the hell, let's get it on" I would have cheered. (By the way - do you have any seme/seme recommendations? <.< ) |
CrackityJones said: That, or the seductress whose viles men are helpless against, and who makes those poor helpless men do nasty things they would never have done if it wasn't for the woman. It's been like that since forever, just look at how religions and churches decided to blame women for the eviction from paradise and the fall from grace, and made women cover up to make sure nothing happens. Yup, it's always the woman's fault. A man cheats on his wife? Well, surely, she must've laid right on top of him and raped him with the superior strength that studies show comes more naturally to females than males! Let's stone the woman! Oh, your husband cheated on you? It's your fault for not satisfying him at home! Poor him! CrackityJones said: Oh, not an acute sense of being in danger, just the awareness of the possibility. I said "the subconscious fear women live with", not "women living in fear"; that's a different meaning. It's in the way women adapt their behaviour, especially after nightfall - taking another, better lit way home than usual; thinking twice about who to let in when you live alone; positioning yourself closer to the old lady and the nice-looking business man at the bus stop than to that group of guys who're busy trying to impress each other; or even walking slower than a suspicious looking guy so he won't ogle your ass. Of course men do some of these things, too, but they usually do them for different reasons. Men don't go to certain areas at night so they won't get mugged, women's priority is not getting raped. It goes so far that, if a woman gets mugged, she's likely to think "well, at least I wasn't raped". Sorry, didn't catch the subconscious part. There is most definitely a subconscious fear of being sexually assaulted by men. I also take precautions involuntarily. I've never even thought much about how many precautions I take. But I have habits that men probably don't; such as placing decent distance between myself and a man when walking alone, as you mentioned. CrackityJones said: Yes. Also, TWO hot men to drool over. Nothing gives me that happy feeling like reading a yaoi where both men are enough to make the most respectable of women drop their pants on the spot. Like Himegoto Asobi. Oh me, oh my. CrackityJones said: Yeah. And not only did he completely overreact as a teen, he didn't mature at all. His reaction is still the same. Run, run, run, little Ritsu... Less you turn into a decent character.... CrackityJones said: Hah, nice! Yeah, that's the problem, apart from his weepy self-pity he isn't characterized at all. It's not enough to have people say he's this or that when all we see is childish crying and tsundere-ing. Mm. I enjoyed Misaki more than I enjoyed him, and Misaki couldn't be more vulnerable if he had taped a note to his forehead saying "rape me". CrackityJones said: Sigh, it's a shame that he's forced to be just another whiny uke. He could have been interesting, and I still like this pairing the best. Yeah, he really could've made the whole manga a lot better if he was fleshed out just a little more. Make him cheerful outside of work, focus more on his work-related insecurities, and give him some sexual spunk. Yukina is fine the way he is. CrackityJones said: Yes! But then we'd lose all respect for him! He has to be pure in spite of all his sluttery. Where would we be if slutty people were allowed to find love? It'd ruin the whole idea of love! Just like gays marrying each other will ruin the sacredness of marriage for straight people! Only the chaste can find love and happyness. Der. What was I thinking? CrackityJones said: I really wish she'd gone all out with this character. The idealism makes me sad. Ageed. CrackityJones said: Yup. And the only solution to insecurity problems is to be liked by your one and only seme. Fuck self-esteem, independency, and pride. You can only find those things in a lover. CrackityJones said: I finished the anime recently and saw the episode in which Takano refuses Yokozawa, and against all hope and better knowledge I was totally rooting for Yokozawa. If Takana had said "ah what the hell, let's get it on" I would have cheered. I wasn't rooting for Yokozawa; I didn't like him because I felt he needed a stick or two removed from his ass. I know everyone has their flaws, but his aggravate me especially. Of course, if he had chosen Takano, I can't say I'd be upset. It'd take some adjusting to, seeing as Onodera was the main character a moment ago, but MasaFumi seems like it'd be a nice, comfortable ship. CrackityJones said: (By the way - do you have any seme/seme recommendations? <.< ) Well, Yokozawa turned out not to be seme. I can't recommend anything that you haven't already read. You've read roughly a thousand more manga than I have. |
Cpl_BallerinaOct 21, 2012 2:36 PM
Alynitca said: What I disliked about the OVAs was the homophobic uke and his nasty, irritating personality. Along with that, the seme was weak and had no dignity. I won't criticize the sex, though, because I know how drastically the sex is changed when a yaoi is being animated. Yeah but even in the manga you suffer that a bit, though the story progression and some character growth made up for it~! (The sexy scenes are much better as well ;D) Alynitca said: Yeah, I don't watch SH for the quality or the romance, but the humorous character interactions. Same here~! & It has it's appeal~!! Though I still find it wanting, and the manga tends to drag on a bit (but it's not the only one xD) Alynitca said: OtakuMadness said: As for Finder I didn't get the appeal, I'm not into the whole rape is possession/power or love in yaoi >_>" Agreed. I dislike rape a lot. Not only is it immoral, but it's also portrayed rather unrealistically in yaoi. Plus, I don't find it sexy. P.S. I love your new avatar. Able wins. Oh, oh, speaking of Starfighter, I dislike how everyone claims that Cain raped Able in chapter one. Able never protested. He was nervous at first, and didn't formally say "yes", but he was clearly enjoying it, he made no struggle, he consented pretty clearly when he said "you're still an ass, Cain," and he helped take his clothes off. What part of that seems forced? It's still portrayed that way in yaoi even now, sometimes you just have to take it for that, but at-least a hell of a lot less~! Agreed, consensual sex is sexy! Rape is abuse not love damn it~! Ah! Though it was a while ago, thank you~! & The hell? I didn't know ppl thought that? He even said he wanted desperately to sleep with someone and they kinda cuddled and crap lolz xD Maybe a little rough, but sorry I have no idea where he was raped >_>' Though Cain is an ass xD You read the latest chapters? P.S. Whoa love how far this conversation went after I got busy xD haha |
OtakuMadnessNov 19, 2012 6:29 AM
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OtakuMadness said: Agreed, consensual sex is sexy! Rape is abuse not love damn it~! Exactly. It's so much a bigger turn-on to see both partners enjoying what is meant to be enjoyable, instead of someone crying. Excuse me, you just got snot all over my porn. Please apologize. OtakuMadness said: & The hell? I didn't know ppl thought that? He even said he wanted desperately to sleep with someone and they kinda cuddled and crap lolz xD Maybe a little rough, but sorry I have no idea where he was raped >_>' Yup. But, people like rape fiction nowadays, so. Let them be delusional. OtakuMadness said: Though Cain is an ass xD You read the latest chapters? Nah. I've only read chapters one and two; I want chapter three to be completely done before I submerse myself in the story. What about you? |
Alynitca said: Exactly. It's so much a bigger turn-on to see both partners enjoying what is meant to be enjoyable, instead of someone crying. Excuse me, you just got snot all over my porn. Please apologize. Amen to that~! Alynitca said: Yup. But, people like rape fiction nowadays, so. Let them be delusional. I will never understand why.... Delusional yes, maybe all the BL n00bs are reading it... Because you have to admit, even though it's fun and the setting new, it's not mind-blowing or anything (maybe that's just me?) Still love it though~! Also love seeing Hamlet get better and better and the story improve as it goes~! She still has something that makes it unique~! Alynitca said: Nah. I've only read chapters one and two; I want chapter three to be completely done before I submerse myself in the story. What about you? That's not a bad way to go about, since I tell you it's killing me to read it one page update at a time Dx Meh take it or leave it I suppose... Yeah I have and Abel is becoming more a slut it seems p: can't say I didn't see it coming though... *shrug* |
OtakuMadnessNov 27, 2012 4:48 PM
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OtakuMadness said: I will never understand why.... Delusional yes, maybe all the BL n00bs are reading it... Because you have to admit, even though it's fun and the setting new, it's not mind-blowing or anything (maybe that's just me?) Still love it though~! Also love seeing Hamlet get better and better and the story improve as it goes~! She still has something that makes it unique~! Yeah, I really admire Hamlet. She is not only skilled at drawing and writing, but she's confident and bold enough to release her inner fantasies (however messed up, as you can see in her random doodles). Plus, those messed up fantasies of hers...Impressively creative. She's actually a contributing factor to a lot of my fetishes and taste for the hardcore. I even like heterosexual and lesbian smut from her. I tend not to be too into that stuff, but if it's by her, it's perfect. OtakuMadness said: That's not a bad way to go about, since I tell you it's killing me to read it one page update at a time Dx Meh take it or leave it I suppose... Yeah I have and Abel is becoming more a slut it seems p: can't say I didn't see it coming though... *shrug* Good. I like my uke slutty. |
Alynitca said: Yeah, I really admire Hamlet. She is not only skilled at drawing and writing, but she's confident and bold enough to release her inner fantasies (however messed up, as you can see in her random doodles). Plus, those messed up fantasies of hers...Impressively creative. She's actually a contributing factor to a lot of my fetishes and taste for the hardcore. I even like heterosexual and lesbian smut from her. I tend not to be too into that stuff, but if it's by her, it's perfect. Yeah I agree~! I was never bored, and her story keeps improving as she learns, but even then she still had a more interesting plot then every bloody typically yaoi I keep coming across~! Anyway, it's character growth I need (which I am seeing in Abel already). I'm looking forward to finding out exactly what she has planned for Abel with all the foreshadowing! You must let me know once you've read chap 3~!!! Yeah, I was surprised how she could even draw me into that as well, when before I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole~! Hahaha xD (not the Het, the lesbian smut) Her characters are also just so interesting~! I'm also reading her Machine story now, though I don't think it's gonna have smut~! I still love it! Alynitca said: Good. I like my uke slutty. Bwahahaha xD Damn it, you are right! |
OtakuMadnessDec 4, 2012 2:36 AM
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