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I sometimes don't "get" this show/characters. Should I just turn off my brain? /up to episode 10 spoilers

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Is it just bad sometimes?
Sep 16, 1:03 PM
#1

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Feb 2010
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[spoiler]
I've watched up to 10th episode and sometimes show, especially characters confuses me.

We have story where main heroine, dungeon crawler(or adventurer?), starts to work in dungeon (managing & stuff). I like this easy to digest show about building or managing stuff with some magic added. However sometimes goes more serious tone but it doesn't mix well.

First, why there is dungeon? Is main character Belle some sadistic person? No. She just acts either cute/friendly and sometimes bossy. Well, most of the time.

Secondly, we have one episode where they want to build new dungeon level. Clay (main heroine) just "meh, whatever". She is like "let's do this more dangerous". Like, do you not care about life of others? Well, maybe...

... but not, she cares... sometimes. We have scene in episode 10 where Clay gets angry at goblins. She doesn't like that goblin rapes females. Fine. That's understandable to feel this. Then short time later we hear that Belle had hard time kidnapping females. What Clays was thinking (not saying aloud)? "Oh, you have problem on that side as well" with "meh" face.


I honestly don't get it sometimes. Is it anime-only errors? Or is it's just sometimes bad?
[/spoiler
Sep 16, 2:19 PM
#2

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Feb 2023
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About the goblins specifically, I think Belle only mentioned that her predecessor might have had issues capturing female adventurers for goblin reproduction, not that she's been doing it herself. The goblins in the dungeon all regrow from plants nowadays. Clay's sudden indifferent attitude about goblin rape can be excused by the fact that it's long in the past.

On the other hand, the premise of a dungeon where adventurers risk their lifes for treasure while managing the dungeon is just a normal job is kind of doomed to break down if you think about it too much. I think it's primarily just meant as a lighthearted comedy you shouldn't think too hard about.
I would agree that the more serious elements of the show don't really fit into the silly premise. Treating most monsters like modern day employees, making everything perfectly safe and comfortable, while killing adventurers without a second thought and while treating for examples goblins like nothing more than livestock is definitely a weird discrepancy.
Sep 17, 2:18 AM
#3
🍅 Tomato 🍅

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Feb 2020
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Better not to think too much about it. This show is sometimes a bit weird indeed.
Sep 17, 3:06 AM
#4
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show is def a cgdct type of show for me. turn off the brain and enjoy the lil story. dont over think it
Sep 17, 8:44 AM
#5

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The characters are only cheery and friendly amongst their own people. From the very start, we see Clay's lack of attachment to other people's lives and I don't remember if they explicitly state it or not, but it's heavily implied that she kills fellow adventures if they pose trouble for her. Belle was always ruthless, she is exactly what her dungeon master wanted her to be. The only people she's seen super-friendly with are Clay and Rangard. I would compare her personality to that of a human that was raised to be a God, which is why she is so indifferent, but still seeks company and explores her own interests. The rest are her employees or people that don't matter to her. I think your just struggling with the gap between art/appearance and actions, but their motives are quite consistent if you've paid attention from the beginning.

The dungeon is a place where people voluntarily risk their life for valuable items and getting stronger. Because people have the choice to enter the dungeon, Clay has no problem. However, r*pe on the other hand is fundamentally not consensual which is a large part of why it is considered so immoral. After the initial discussion upon entering the goblin's den, Clay shows her disgust at the goblin's breeding tactics, but swallows it. So when Belle mentions that they had a hard time kidnapping females, it doesn't shock her because this was accepted as the premise of the conversation.
Quadruple_OiSep 17, 9:00 AM
Sep 20, 2:11 PM
#6
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Jun 2019
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Actually you need to turn on the brain, Clay doesn't care about others life, she said that she killed people in the dungeon before and doesn't have problem with that, and Belle actually it's a ruthless person as a master dungeon needs to be and a normal person whe she's not working, she just looks cut to the spectator and also Clay/rangard, they are just friendly about their people, not others
Sep 21, 3:29 AM
#7
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You can probably read into it to various degrees.

You could see it as a mindless cute-girls-doing-cute-things, with cute things sometimes turning out ruthless and gory, in a humorous gap similar to the old flash Happy Tree Friends cartoon.

You could see it as a story about dungeon employees who are both diligent and humane, where there are just certain rules to how dungeons function. Being artificially "nice" to adventurers, invaders or kings would compromise your integrity as an employee, so you have to prioritize. And treating goblins as anything more than what they are by nature is just not practical, the show directly says that they would just cannibalize their own.

You could see it as a comment on people IRL doing all kinds of questionable things and hiding behind "I'm just doing my job". Scamming elderly of their life savings, killing people in armed conflicts, corruption and dirty politics, for example.

I prefer to see it as a mix of 1 and 2, and it doesn't really seem contradictory or weird at all. Idk what people mean by turning off their brains though, so ymmv.

Edit: The big draw of Belle as a character might be how she combines completely normal respectful attitude towards everyone with maintaining her duty to the dungeon. Usually in this medium we get a lot of characters who are on the extremes of being either a whiny pushover, a maniacal edgelord, or a righteous grandstander. Belle is very refreshing that way.
casual42Sep 21, 3:39 AM
Sep 21, 5:36 AM
#8
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Wannabiteme said:
First, why there is dungeon?
It was created by Belle's predeccessor and from hints about his lust for bikini armors, dungeon realism, his grasp of basic nobility thinking process, he probably is some sort of isekai'd otaku with op abilities that wanted to created a dungeon for hobby purposes. Now it serves as a place to train the inhabitants of the kingdom and gain valuable equipment. If the kingdom could find a smith like Rangard, this dungeon would be out of business admittedly.

Wannabiteme said:
Is main character Belle some sadistic person? No. She just acts either cute/friendly and sometimes bossy. Well, most of the time.
She was raised by someone who has their heads screwed loose or is an otaku, consistency of moral values is not really expected.

Wannabiteme said:
Secondly, we have one episode where they want to build new dungeon level. Clay (main heroine) just "meh, whatever". She is like "let's do this more dangerous". Like, do you not care about life of others? Well, maybe...
She was raised as an adventurer who knows that dungeons are dangerous but also places to test oneself. I think she wanted to test her skills just like her father. They both value their life and want to hone their craft as explorers, others don't factor into their heads besides basic morality.

Wannabiteme said:
She doesn't like that goblin rapes females. Fine. That's understandable to feel this. Then short time later we hear that Belle had hard time kidnapping females. What Clays was thinking (not saying aloud)? "Oh, you have problem on that side as well" with "meh" face.
The topic at hand was the logistics of goblins, not her opinion on various methods of goblin reproduction. That is probably compartmentalization, she can still hate goblins forcing themselves on humans while her train of thought at that moment is the realization that the gestation period of a goblin (or more depending on litter) being 9months per female is really inefficient. Besides she is over it, as they switched to a more ethical and efficient reproduction method.

Wannabiteme said:
Is it anime-only errors? Or is it's just sometimes bad?
Both Belle and Clay don't have normal childhoods, it would make sense they don't think normally. I think it is fine. I think it is just the whiplash of the show being about the "light-hearted" management of a facility specifically designed to kill but also grant overpowered awards for survivors is not for everyone.
Sep 21, 11:43 PM
#9

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Well, you should turn off your brain when you're watching this kind anime if you want to actually enjoy it

Sep 27, 9:14 PM

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Nice attempt at the spoiler tag. You don't need to turn off your brain. Quite on the contrary, you could use it for once. Then you'd notice it's not something so complicated or "sometimes bad", but simply a couple of misunderstandings.

1. you misattributed indifference towards evil to them even after they reacted the way they did towards the comrade killers, 2. they don't go into detail about this, and you probably got the idea from the slimes cleanup portion, but it's not like there's an adventurer genocide going on, and finally, 3. the "dark" parts, where they show a different standard of right and wrong, are meant mostly as parody, and it's done in a much more tasteful and palatable way than some shit shows I've seen out there.
Sep 28, 2:39 PM
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I'm not sure if I'm overthinking it, but it seems we're missing the bigger picture here. Belle didn't create the dungeon, her master did. But why did he need a dungeon? We simply don't know. I doubt he did it just for sport considering the lengths he went to and the atrocities he committed in order to keep it functional. There must be some reason. Is something hidden away in the dungeon that the dungeon is meant to protect, or perhaps it serves as some kind of an experiment, or maybe a ritual temple of sorts, or a prison meant to keep a dreadful eldritch horror sealed? Only the old administrator knows. I doubt even Belle herself knows the true purpose of this dungeon. She seems like the kind of person that when a job is assigned to her, she'll do it without question. On the other hand, Clay seems inquisitive. Maybe a bit slow on the uptake sometimes, but definitely not one to just shut up and do her job. Maybe she'll discover the true purpose of the dungeon on her quest to find her father?

Anyway, I'm hoping for season 2. Maybe we'll get some answers, maybe not, but it's still a perfectly enjoyable series to watch.
Sep 29, 5:47 PM
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Nov 2013
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Reply to Quadruple_Oi
The characters are only cheery and friendly amongst their own people. From the very start, we see Clay's lack of attachment to other people's lives and I don't remember if they explicitly state it or not, but it's heavily implied that she kills fellow adventures if they pose trouble for her. Belle was always ruthless, she is exactly what her dungeon master wanted her to be. The only people she's seen super-friendly with are Clay and Rangard. I would compare her personality to that of a human that was raised to be a God, which is why she is so indifferent, but still seeks company and explores her own interests. The rest are her employees or people that don't matter to her. I think your just struggling with the gap between art/appearance and actions, but their motives are quite consistent if you've paid attention from the beginning.

The dungeon is a place where people voluntarily risk their life for valuable items and getting stronger. Because people have the choice to enter the dungeon, Clay has no problem. However, r*pe on the other hand is fundamentally not consensual which is a large part of why it is considered so immoral. After the initial discussion upon entering the goblin's den, Clay shows her disgust at the goblin's breeding tactics, but swallows it. So when Belle mentions that they had a hard time kidnapping females, it doesn't shock her because this was accepted as the premise of the conversation.
@Quadruple_Oi
The dungeon is a place where people voluntarily risk their life for valuable items and getting stronger. Because people have the choice to enter the dungeon, Clay has no problem. However, r*pe on the other hand is fundamentally not consensual which is a large part of why it is considered so immoral. After the initial discussion upon entering the goblin's den, Clay shows her disgust at the goblin's breeding tactics, but swallows it. So when Belle mentions that they had a hard time kidnapping females, it doesn't shock her because this was accepted as the premise of the conversation.


This has got to be the most asinine comment I've read today. Voluntarily risk their lives? r*pe on the other hand is fundamentally not consensual?
Killing is fundamentally NOT consensual. You cannot make any sort of intelligent comment around the argumentation that taking other people's lives is fundamentally consensual. There is also no country in this world where murder is considered a lesser crime. If people having the choice to enter the dungeon is an argument for them dying being consensual, then so it is for r*pe. You do have to wonder what sort of people on this planet have such inhumane thoughts towards their peers.

@Wannabiteme
Clay has a problem with it because she's a human woman, so obviously she'll be - by default - on the side of human women first, then humans second. She is also a very intelligent person and doesn't do ridiculous things such as getting angry on behalf of people before her time. She has more important things to do with her life. She is also neurodivergent due to being raised alone with twisted morals by her "father", so she doesn't really value life like she should, since she hasn't experienced the death of a loved one ... yet.
robertino129Sep 29, 5:52 PM
Sep 29, 7:09 PM

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robertino129 said:
This has got to be the most asinine comment I've read today. Voluntarily risk their lives? r*pe on the other hand is fundamentally not consensual?
Killing is fundamentally NOT consensual. You cannot make any sort of intelligent comment around the argumentation that taking other people's lives is fundamentally consensual. There is also no country in this world where murder is considered a lesser crime. If people having the choice to enter the dungeon is an argument for them dying being consensual, then so it is for r*pe. You do have to wonder what sort of people on this planet have such inhumane thoughts towards their peers.

If you voluntarily agree to a fight to the death, are you not consenting to die when you lose? Is it not the same for the dungeon?

I don't see how you can draw a real world analogy when concepts such as dungeons don't exist, except perhaps war.
Sep 29, 7:15 PM
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Nov 2013
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Reply to Quadruple_Oi
robertino129 said:
This has got to be the most asinine comment I've read today. Voluntarily risk their lives? r*pe on the other hand is fundamentally not consensual?
Killing is fundamentally NOT consensual. You cannot make any sort of intelligent comment around the argumentation that taking other people's lives is fundamentally consensual. There is also no country in this world where murder is considered a lesser crime. If people having the choice to enter the dungeon is an argument for them dying being consensual, then so it is for r*pe. You do have to wonder what sort of people on this planet have such inhumane thoughts towards their peers.

If you voluntarily agree to a fight to the death, are you not consenting to die when you lose? Is it not the same for the dungeon?

I don't see how you can draw a real world analogy when concepts such as dungeons don't exist, except perhaps war.
@Quadruple_Oi What a ridiculous statement. If you voluntarily agree to be a soldier, are you consenting to die when you lose? Is it not the same in the dungeon?

I don't see how you can not draw a real world analogy when concepts such as serving in the military, going into space, working deep underwater exist. Hell, even working on an oil rig at sea is deadly.

You just sound as someone who sits in front of his computer screen all day and haven't worked or never had someone in your family work a job with a real risk of death onsite. They don't consent to death, at all. They acknowledge there is a risk, that is all.
Sep 29, 7:40 PM

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Reply to robertino129
@Quadruple_Oi What a ridiculous statement. If you voluntarily agree to be a soldier, are you consenting to die when you lose? Is it not the same in the dungeon?

I don't see how you can not draw a real world analogy when concepts such as serving in the military, going into space, working deep underwater exist. Hell, even working on an oil rig at sea is deadly.

You just sound as someone who sits in front of his computer screen all day and haven't worked or never had someone in your family work a job with a real risk of death onsite. They don't consent to death, at all. They acknowledge there is a risk, that is all.
@robertino129

The risk of dying in a dungeon, to my understanding, is considerably higher than all the jobs you've mentioned besides the military in an active war. But you're right that 'consent' was the incorrect term to choice, my apologies.

However, "acknowledging the risk of dying" = "Voluntarily risking their lives (i.e. voluntarily choosing to partake in an activity where one has a non-negligible chance to die)". They don't acknowledge the risk of rape because that isn't the nature of the dungeons. So that was the point I was trying to make in that comparison. I should be more careful with my word-choice.

Edit: On second thought, an appropriate real world analogy does exist in the form of hunting prey that is of similar strength.
Quadruple_OiSep 29, 8:00 PM
Sep 29, 8:09 PM
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Reply to Quadruple_Oi
@robertino129

The risk of dying in a dungeon, to my understanding, is considerably higher than all the jobs you've mentioned besides the military in an active war. But you're right that 'consent' was the incorrect term to choice, my apologies.

However, "acknowledging the risk of dying" = "Voluntarily risking their lives (i.e. voluntarily choosing to partake in an activity where one has a non-negligible chance to die)". They don't acknowledge the risk of rape because that isn't the nature of the dungeons. So that was the point I was trying to make in that comparison. I should be more careful with my word-choice.

Edit: On second thought, an appropriate real world analogy does exist in the form of hunting prey that is of similar strength.
@Quadruple_Oi What do you mean they don't acknowledge the risk? It's clearly presented in the anime as a teaching by the guilds and her father, shown in a flashback of her encountering it at least once in her life.

It is also a risk acknowledged by every person serving in the military, especially in the top 5 militaries in the world, US included. In certain western countries it is also a risk in the prison system, which you join unwillingly for something as simple as insulting people or being unable to pay a parking fine.

Once again, there is no feasible argument that you can make where killings are presented as the lesser evil, an unknown risk to guild members in this universe. Or ours for that matter.
Sep 29, 8:30 PM

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Reply to robertino129
@Quadruple_Oi What do you mean they don't acknowledge the risk? It's clearly presented in the anime as a teaching by the guilds and her father, shown in a flashback of her encountering it at least once in her life.

It is also a risk acknowledged by every person serving in the military, especially in the top 5 militaries in the world, US included. In certain western countries it is also a risk in the prison system, which you join unwillingly for something as simple as insulting people or being unable to pay a parking fine.

Once again, there is no feasible argument that you can make where killings are presented as the lesser evil, an unknown risk to guild members in this universe. Or ours for that matter.
@robertino129

Not arguing that killing is a lesser evil, just that it's not expected as risk in the context of the dungeon. I don't ever recall her father or the guilds informing Clay about the risk of r*pe in a dungeon, so I generalized to other anime dungeons that I've seen which don't address r*pe as an issue.

Considering that Clay thinks her father lost to Belle, it means that the plant-based goblin scheme was likely in place at the time since Belle should be the admin, so I don't think Belle allowed goblins to do that during this time period. At the end of the day, that is just speculation. If the anime did show that presented as a teaching given to Clay, then you're right.
Sep 29, 9:22 PM
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Reply to Quadruple_Oi
@robertino129

Not arguing that killing is a lesser evil, just that it's not expected as risk in the context of the dungeon. I don't ever recall her father or the guilds informing Clay about the risk of r*pe in a dungeon, so I generalized to other anime dungeons that I've seen which don't address r*pe as an issue.

Considering that Clay thinks her father lost to Belle, it means that the plant-based goblin scheme was likely in place at the time since Belle should be the admin, so I don't think Belle allowed goblins to do that during this time period. At the end of the day, that is just speculation. If the anime did show that presented as a teaching given to Clay, then you're right.
@Quadruple_Oi Just because you don't recall it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In the end, your arguments make no sense even without it. A lawless place where killing is possible, and you yourself admit that killing is worse, wouldn't lend itself to gullible people. This isn't a shounen. Shounen rules don't apply here, so I don't know why anyone would parallel it to dungeons in shounens and not in those aimed at more mature people.



robertino129Sep 29, 9:40 PM
Sep 29, 10:14 PM

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@robertino129

I never mentioned killing is worse, I just said it's not a lesser evil. Whether I believe it's a greater evil or not is besides the point.

The image you refer to is with regards to the actions of the adventurers in the dungeon. The original point being argued was why Clay reacts differently to the dungeon allowing monsters to kill explorers vs allowing monsters to r*pe explorers. The aspects of the dungeon that they are directly involved in.

Clay, the dungeon, and the guild clearly do not condone adventurers doing any r*pe or murder. That part was never up for debate. Ex:
Sep 29, 10:39 PM
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Reply to Quadruple_Oi
@robertino129

I never mentioned killing is worse, I just said it's not a lesser evil. Whether I believe it's a greater evil or not is besides the point.

The image you refer to is with regards to the actions of the adventurers in the dungeon. The original point being argued was why Clay reacts differently to the dungeon allowing monsters to kill explorers vs allowing monsters to r*pe explorers. The aspects of the dungeon that they are directly involved in.

Clay, the dungeon, and the guild clearly do not condone adventurers doing any r*pe or murder. That part was never up for debate. Ex:
@Quadruple_Oi Last I checked nobody of authority condones it. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, nor that it doesn't go unpunished, nor that people are not aware of it happening. Killing fellow adventurers outside of self defense is also not condoned by the organisations in the anime, yet clay does just that and goes unpunished.

It is also completely irrelevant who the perpetrator is, humans or monsters. The fact that all of these things can happen is very well known to everyone entering. Whether killed, eaten alive, SA'd or anything else. Claiming otherwise is disingenuous.

The original point being argued is irrelevant and you can try and deflect all you want, I'm not going to bite. You clearly responded to my calling out your bad arguments, not to what I replied to the OP in my first comment. You know, from the consensual part down to the adventurers not knowing it's a possibility.

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